I'm falling in love with this team

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Truth be told its neither a midfield nor defence issue. Its a team issue. As a team we dont defend with any intelligence and get basic like positioning and closing out people dead wrong. The lead up to the second goals vs Braga and the one vs Chelsea that we conceded are classic examples. We used to defend as a unit way better.

Cina

I thought we were defensively great in the first half hour against Chelsea, there was no gap between midfield and defense and they just couldn't find a way through at all. For some reason after that the team just decided to shut off and we were heavily exposed again.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Exactly. It's a team wide issue and this season it has been happening repeatedly. The Braga game's first 20 minutes were hilariously bad. They just played through us like we were cones on a training field.

OGkush

1) First time since Ronaldo was still that I'm never worried about us creating chances and subsequently scoring goals, no mather the opponent we will score (the Everton game was an exception, but in its defense it was our first (and poorest) game of the season, won't happen again).

2) Midfield could do with an upgrade. Unless we play 3 in there opposition teams find it way too easy to strole through the middle when playing against us. This is still one are where I'm not really confident. The situation is better compared to last season, but there's lots of room for improvement still, whether that'll come from within our ranks or through a signing is yet to be seen, but I don't think waiting too long for that is a good thing to do.

3) Defense looks a bit shaky, but in our defense we have barely had any fit defenders in the first place, and in all honesty while we certainly need to improve in that aspect, I'm not as worried as some people. On top of the fact that we have had an injury riddled season so far regarding defenders, the goals have mostly come from moments of stupidity rather than our defense looking continously suspect throughout the game.
Getting Vidič back fit will be a gigantic plus in that department, and let's not forget about Jones & Smalling.

4) We're doing ok in the GK department. While De Gea isn't on VdS or Schmeichel's level (obviously), he's still incredibily young and ahead of those 2 age wise, and he's already saved us a lot of times. He's one of the best shot stoppers around already. And we've also probably got the best 2nd choice GK we've ever had.

And we still have the best manager in football history running our team, I think we're good and this should be a very interesting season, if we manage to get our defending in shape and not allow so many goals we should be "the team to beat" as someone has previously stated. In short, I'm very, very excited.

apotheosis

I agree and i put that down to coaching personally. To back up my claim i would point to the Newcastle away game. In that game you could see an extra emphasis had been placed upon defensive duties, that had not been present in other matches.

I think if the players are told to do this, then they do it, if they are not they don't. As i have said previously, the 3 man midfield obviously helps in that regard.

When we play only 2 it is extremely unlikely that you can effectively press a team playing narrow with extra bodies in the central area. We are essentially a man light in there, and the fact our wingers play so wide only isolates the central 2 further. In years gone by far fewer teams played a Barca like style than they are doing today, and it is since so many teams are adopting similar systems to Barca, especially in Europe, which i believe explains why we are being exposed far more often than in years gone by.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

I wonder. SAF corrected it vs Chelsea twice. It's the players that kept switching off.

We started with Rooney just ahead of Cleverley and Carrick, Evra tucked in on the left and Young in a wing back role. Then all over a sudden hell broke loose! We started wasting our ball use and trying to defend as 11 individuals rather than a team and Chelsea took full advantage. Then we re-adjusted which resulted in us taking control once again and reducing them to 10 men. Then we repeated the switch off, making their 10 men look better than they should have before Torres walked.

ERICSAGOD

Agreed.

Defence looks very shaky, especially with a keeper who seems to save a lot of shots with his feet.

wonnie

I think the slow tempo play really surfaced after the first few months of last season. Prior to that, we had players like Park and Fletcher who were not necessarily first XI players all the time, but gave us a lot of energy and work rate. With Park generally in terrible form last season, and Fletcher KO'ed we lacked a lot of energy prior to seasons past. Add to that Evra had previously dominated the entire left flank until around the middle of 2010, it partly explains this lack of tempo/energy.

And that's my next point, maybe our tempo is only marginally slower now but it appears to be a lot more noticeable because the team doesn't have as much energy/work rate as before.

apotheosis

In that game, that is one interpretation and not one i share. For me the lack of tracking back by whoever was supposed to be tracking Rafael left Cole 2 v 1 against rafael and Valencia on more than one occasion, which we exploited.

Once Chelsea sorted that out we did not really carry any sort of regular threat after the first 20mins, up until the sending off of Ivanovic.

But rather than quibble over that match i would point to our defending generally to back up my lack of defensive emphasis on the coaching front. It was a similar story last season, despite our blistering start offensively, defensively we were shipping chances to the opponents and nothing was done about it whatsoever until after our drubbing to City. After that you could clearly see that instructions had been given to tighten up, and we improved from that point on, barring our form in Europe.

For me it was simply a return to the gung ho approach we used to see from Utd regularly after the treble season. We seemed to adopt a far more measured approach during Queiroz's time, which coincided with our most successful period in Europe.

Platato

No one picked up on this?

moyesmyhero

The key part is he's saving them. If he wasn't then it'd be an issue.

MUFC07

I was going through old articles on United and found this one very interesting, bearing in mind a sort of comparison with the United we're watching right now. Thought I would make a new thread but I think it'll fit in this one quite well.

This is Jonathan Wilson's:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...tics-noughties

Jonno

David De Gea looks twice the player that he was this time last season, he was voted man of the match on Man Utd.com for his performance vs Chelsea (yes even with his feet saves!) and the guy is only 21 years of age....21! I am a lot more confident now than 12 months ago about how good he will come. Imagine how good he is in 4 years time - when he is the age Joe Hart is at now.

ArmchairCritic

Loved watching them tonight, probably because I wasn't especially bothered about the result but when our Carling Cup Team is being that clinical it's great to watch.

Mainoldo

Proud of the team today.. Chelsea can take that if they wont, at times we controlled large portions of the game, untill the big guns came on.

Raven Blade

There's an amazing spirit in the teams we're putting out at the moment. That group of players did us proud. The result is extremely annoying after all the effort we put in but I've seen enough character to reassure me.

prateik

If we can secure first position in the CL group, the kids might get a game on matchday 6.

That'd be nice.

kouroux

Really proud of the team despite the loss.I mean Chelsea had to resort using several of its first teamers to beat a 2nd/3rd ring United team.It says a lot tbh.
Powell looks like some player

Neutral

And ready to complete his big move to Barca or Real Madrid

noodlehair

Are all of our games from now until the end of the season just going to be completely and utterly mental then?

Not that I'm complaining if they are going to be, but what the hell? It's like each game is a challenge to be more daft than the last.

Pronewbie

Which is why I'd be more than happy for us to play a midfield trio of Cleverley, Anderson & Carrick since our defending has been so poor anyway.

rcoobc

So effin good.

Raven Blade

Is it normal to have orgasmic feelings over a football club?

amolbhatia100

Still not happening for me. Love the spirit they have but the football just doesnt excite me at all.

steeeb

When were attacking how can it not excite you? Okay, it's not short passing brilliance - but it's exciting.

We even give them a head start to add to it.

Platato

I see where amol is coming from. It's exciting because our boys are getting back into the match and we put immense pressure on our opposition. There were only bits and pieces which I found to be decent football. There hasn't been a game where I've left thinking "blimey, our football was fantastic!"

Adebesi

I was watching the game with my brother in law. When we went 2-0 I started laughing and told him I was still not worried, that I was still completely confident we would fight back and at least get a draw.

There has always been an element of that in United teams but this one has taken the whole never say die attitude a step further, by always insisting on turning a gun on itself to prove it will not die. When you are playing Villa you can be quite confident of turning just about anything around when you have half an hour to play. But unfortunately we cant play Villa every week.

I will always love a United team, but this one is not yet up there with the best, though if Cleverson comes good in the middle perhaps it can be one day.

Brightonian

This hallowed 'short passing football' will appear. It's just a case of Fergie needing to get his head round that three man midfield and stop playing Giggs, Scholes, and out of form wingers. There've been signs of it when Cleverley or Anderson have been on the pitch. When they finally both get on there (hopefully with Carrick behind them), we'll see a bit of tiki taka.

Godfather

It's the form of our wingers and the way we line up our CM most of the time that prevents me from falling in love with the team. I think if our wingers come eventially good again amd Fergie starts Ando and Clev more often I'm going to love watching us again. Atm it's a mixture of frustration and joy. don't really know how to explain it but it's going to kill me

marjen

You just feel that we're going to absolutely trash someone once we get it right. Hasn't happened so far but it will.

A frontline of players like RVP, Rooney and Valencia with an actual functioning midfield behind them means havoc. As Newcastle found out, and Chelsea for the first 30 minutes.

Brightonian

That's it exactly. It's not that this team is just bad. It's that it has the potential to be really brilliant, up there with our best, but at the moment its not getting close to fulfilling that potential. For me, its Fergie's fault at the moment. He needs to start picking teams based on what we have, and what they could be, not on what we have been in the past (wing-oriented, Scholes and Giggs, etc.)

Cina

The main problem is that nobody knows what our strongest XI is yet, there's too much chopping and changing and it's evident that Fergie still doesn't know how to utilize our midfield fully.

Saying that, I don't think we have a first XI that ticks all the boxes all over the park, which will be our downfall in the big games, especially the CL.

Rooney in Paris

Our strongest team will be the one where we manage to fit in all three of RvP, Rooney and Kagawa. In theory, there are different ways to make it work, but to actually get them clicking on the pitch is another story. A bit of a conundrum I trust SAF to resolve. Don't think we'll be seeing our "best XI" until the second part of the season in any case.

However, the team is good enough at the moment to keep on track in the league, which is the most important thing.

lysglimt

I think those either of those 2 home-matches after the Norwich-game could be a trashing about to happen.

Away we are still shaky - but if we fire on all cylinders at home and get an early goal, it could be ugly for the teams we are up against

wonnie

It's not just this season we don't have a first XI though. Even in the big games a few seasons ago Park and Fletcher would make it into the team at the expense of your Berbatov, Tevez, Giggs and etc. But just because they play in the big games does that mean they are part of the first XI? I don't think so.

As for the CL this season (and it's already been said in the CL thread) I think if we keep practicing and refining our diamond in midfield we could go quite a long way. Our team can afford to be a bit more narrow with the quality of our attack, and at the same time we would be strengthening our ever present problem area which is CM.

Revan

It is becoming a nightmare watching United in the first half this season. It is really hard to explain how from awful in first half we are consistently being excellent in the end of the games.

Adebesi

Are you absolutely sure Kagawa would get into our strongest XI?

Maybe just havent seen enough of him yet, and he hasnt fully settled. But I am not convinced . Not saying he wont be a great player, and useful for the squad, regardless. But I prefer Rooney in what I understand to be Kagawa's best position.

Cina

Oh I know, we haven't had one for a while.

Last consistent first XI I remember was during the CL run in in 10/11, but it wasn't exactly a great team.

Rooney in Paris

On current form (well, form prior to his injury) and what he's shown since the beginning of the season, no, he wouldn't be in our best XI or whatever that means.

However, skill wise, he's one of our top 3 players in my opinion. What I meant was that with the current squad of players, our best starting XI would include all 3 of Rooney, RvP and Kagawa who would all be playing well. I know Shinji has gotten off to an unconvincing start altogether (although he's had a few good games), but once he 1) settles in the team and 2) settles in the league, I'm pretty sure he'll be fine. But as you've pointed out, he excels in a position where Rooney is, at the time being, doing very well in, and didn't seem capable to completely come to grips with what was required of him in the diamond midfield. At the moment, he does seem a bit unidimensional (he can play in the hole through the middle, but put him anywhere else and he'll struggle).

But I trust SAF and the coaching teem to solve this problem and find a solution where all three players can do well in the same team. And my point was that when that happens, that will be our strongest XI.

Adebesi

According to physioroom.com he will be back in a week. Hopefully he can find his feet quickly.