IMUSA Statement Re Recent Developments

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 10:12

Statement from the Independent Manchester United Supporters’ Association (IMUSA) concerning possible bids to buy the club:

1st February 2010

Background
The Independent Manchester United Supporters’ Association (IMUSA) was founded in 1995 and came about because of the tensions between the fans' natural enthusiasm for supporting their team and the clubs' increasingly commercial approach that required us to sit down, shut up and passively hand over ever larger amounts of money. IMUSA is now the oldest independent fans’ organisation in the country and has been consistent in its vocal opposition to the Glazers’ model of ownership. IMUSA was removed from the Manchester United Fans’ Forum in 2005 for holding these views.

Support for potential bidders or consortium of bidders
The purpose of this release is to make it clear that IMUSA welcomes the discussions about the possibility of ownership change at Manchester United and expresses its sincere hopes that such a bid can be successfully mounted We also wish to make it clear however, that we would only welcome this change of ownership if it resulted in the best interests of Manchester United Football Club and the United family being put first. That is, any other owner trying to impose a model based on self interest and greed, would be just as distasteful to us as the Glazers currently are.

IMUSA therefore wishes to offer its full and unequivocal support to any bidder or group of bidders who will undertake to;

(i) Set aside, in perpetuity, at least 25% of the shares in the club (that can neither be sold nor traded) to a Trust, (the trustees of which should include fans representatives and representatives of the local community), so that the likes of the Glazers can never inflict themselves on our club gain.(1)
(ii) Establish a democratically and transparently elected Fans’ Forum and grant it powers to influence decisions about those issues that directly impinge upon the fans (2).
(iii) Agree to the revisiting of the ticket price reconfiguration exercise begun by IMUSA and the club in 2005 (that would have resulted in nearly 70% of ticket prices being reduced whilst keeping match-day income the same) but abandoned following the Glazer takeover (3).

Fans’ protests against the Glazers’ ownership
The Glazers have thus far shown little understanding of the harm they have inflicted on Manchester United supporters. They have tried hard to spin the strength of feeling against them and have shown contempt for the protests that have thus far taken place. David Gill (CEO of Manchester United) described these protests only yesterday as being “ridiculous”. The Glazers are set to take upwards of £400 million out of the club for themselves The only way fans can prevent this happening is to starve them of cash, so that what money there is, has to be spent on Manchester United, not funding the lifestyles of its unwelcome owners.

That cash flow is reduced if fans do not buy anything within the ground
That cash flow is reduced if fans pledge not to renew their season tickets if the Glazers are still in control come season ticket renewal time.

Fans are asked to contact comms@imusa.org if they are considering not renewing, so that we can keep a count on numbers. A website is in the process of being set up to do this also. In the meantime, all fans are encouraged to wear the Green and Gold of the protest movement to show the Glazers and the world that the Manchester United family rejects the Glazers’ and their type of greed driven ownership model. IMUSA 1/2/10

Note 1: In most clubs in Germany the fans own 51% of the shares. The 25% called for here is derived from the amount needed to prevent a company being delisted on the Stock-Exchange if it is taken over.
Note 2: The Glazers have only ever made one statement directly to the fans, via a sycophantic interview on MUTV in 2005 and have never met with IMUSA, preferring instead to simply ignore the written request to do so from the then Minister of Sport, Richard Caborn and the reminder phone-calls from his office that followed.
Note 3: Ticket prices under the Glazers have all but doubled for many ordinary fans and this has resulted in much of our traditional support being priced out. We wish to see this situation addressed as a matter of urgency whilst recognising the need for a certain level of match-day income.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 10:17

Again, for anything to work you have to hit the Glazers where it hurts - their pocket. People need to stop buying tickets. Will you be renewing yours, ralph?

phelans shorts · 2nd February 2010, 10:18

Right that answered alot of my worries about this, so to ensure the new owners aren't glazer like they want complete transparency on finance's etc... Or they won't be backed.

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

Again, for anything to work you have to hit the Glazers where it hurts - their pocket. People need to stop buying tickets. Will you be renewing yours, ralph?

If I can still afford it, and unless there is any concerted campaign of boycotting (10,000 minimum would be needed), I will still be renewing.

Rood · 2nd February 2010, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

If I can still afford it, and unless there is any concerted campaign of boycotting (10,000 minimum would be needed), I will still be renewing.

Scab

Actually quite a well worded statement there from IMUSA - the kind of thing I would be happy to support - good to see that the fan groups are learning from past mistakes.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

If I can still afford it, and unless there is any concerted campaign of boycotting (10,000 minimum would be needed), I will still be renewing.

But why? Surely then you can see that you are contributing to the high ticket prices, by buying them? All it would take is for the majority of ST holders to refuse to renew their season tickets. As you said, the waiting list has been wiped out, they were calling me in the summer asking me did I want to buy one, that would have been unheard of 5/6 years ago!

I appreciate you love the club and you want to see them at Old Trafford, in Europe, at away games as often as you can, but surely you realise that you are in fact contributing the problem you are so desperately trying to solve?

Dyslexic Untied · 2nd February 2010, 10:51

Re this point:

(ii) Establish a democratically and transparently elected Fans’ Forum and grant it powers to influence decisions about those issues that directly impinge upon the fans (2).

How would that work? What kind of power would this forum have? Equal to 25% of the shares? And what decisions will this include? I'd like for it to include matters relating to tickets, community, etc. But will it include decisions on who to buy, what manager to get etc?

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

All it would take is for the majority of ST holders to refuse to renew their season tickets.

(...)

I appreciate you love the club and you want to see them at Old Trafford, in Europe, at away games as often as you can, but surely you realise that you are in fact contributing the problem you are so desperately trying to solve?

Of course I am aware of the fact.

However at the moment there's not a cat's chance in hell that the majority (or even a substantial minority) of ST holders are going to refuse to renew. And while that remains the case, I'd prefer my protest to be inside, not outside the stadium.

That was my view in 2005 and it's still my view now.

gambit28 · 2nd February 2010, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

Re this point:

(ii) Establish a democratically and transparently elected Fans’ Forum and grant it powers to influence decisions about those issues that directly impinge upon the fans (2).

How would that work? What kind of power would this forum have? Equal to 25% of the shares? And what decisions will this include? I'd like for it to include matters relating to tickets, community, etc. But will it include decisions on who to buy, what manager to get etc?

God I hope not.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Of course I am aware of the fact.

However at the moment there's not a cat's chance in hell that the majority (or even a substantial minority) of ST holders are going to refuse to renew. And while that remains the case, I'd prefer my protest to be inside, not outside the stadium.

That was my view in 2005 and it's still my view now.

How do you know that though? There are 42,000 member of MUST now, how many of those are ST Holders in your estimation? If you work together with the likes of IMUSA and other similar groups, there may be a chance you can make something happen with regards to season tickets. No-one, not even yourself, expected this Green and Gold till the Club is Sold to catch on as well as it has done, so the same could happen with ST's if careful thought and planning was put into it.

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

Re this point:

(ii) Establish a democratically and transparently elected Fans’ Forum and grant it powers to influence decisions about those issues that directly impinge upon the fans (2).

How would that work? What kind of power would this forum have? Equal to 25% of the shares? And what decisions will this include? I'd like for it to include matters relating to tickets, community, etc. But will it include decisions on who to buy, what manager to get etc?

You're confusing two issues here mate. The Fan's Forum is a Sport England (I think) requirement for the club to speak to its fans on issues like ticketing etc. All PL clubs have one. The Glazers chucked IMUSA and MUST - the only two democratic fan organisations - off it in 2005. Now it's made up of a group of fans who aren't accountable at all.

Even if the club were 100% owned by fans, they wouldn't have a say in team issues (as they don't at Barca, Madrid, Bayern Munich etc.). That would be daft.

And they would still need a Fans Forum.

R_Kelly · 2nd February 2010, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

How do you know that though? There are 42,000 member of MUST now, how many of those are ST Holders in your estimation? If you work together with the likes of IMUSA and other similar groups, there may be a chance you can make something happen with regards to season tickets. No-one, not even yourself, expected this Green and Gold till the Club is Sold to catch on as well as it has done, so the same could happen with ST's if careful thought and planning was put into it.

It's quite a leap from joining a free membership of MUST and buying a scarf for a fiver to getting the same number of people to commit to something on the scale of not renewing your ST.

Ralphie is right in saying that it's not going to happen any time soon.

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

the same could happen with ST's if careful thought and planning was put into it.

It's not been ruled out. But past experience tells us that United fans don't do boycotts in significant numbers. Just look at 2005. My view is that we have to learn from previous mistkaes if we want to improve things at United.

Green and gold has been so successful because most fans feel they can join in without compromising their support for the team.

samabachan · 2nd February 2010, 11:05

We should be very careful when stipulating how much of a say the fans get. Obv=iously they have to be listened to on such things as tickets, matchgoing atmosphere etc but we all know how much of a spastic the average fan is when it comes to actual footballing opinions. For me the ideal structure would be a benevolent dictator where the fans have a relatively small but significant shareholding, or similar - we have seen the impact having gimps for fans can have on the likes of Real and Barca, with them calling for the best players in Europe every season at any cost. Don't forget, if the board listened to fans Fergie would probably have gone in 2004/05.

Red_Jamie · 2nd February 2010, 11:07

I still believe that showing support for the team comes first. If i could still afford to renew i would be doing. It just so happens that i can't justify it any more.

I suppose it's almost enforced boycotting?

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by samabachan

We should be very careful when stipulating how much of a say the fans get. Obv=iously they have to be listened to on such things as tickets, matchgoing atmosphere etc but we all know how much of a spastic the average fan is when it comes to actual footballing opinions. For me the ideal structure would be a benevolent dictator where the fans have a relatively small but significant shareholding, or similar - we have seen the impact having gimps for fans can have on the likes of Real and Barca, with them calling for the best players in Europe every season at any cost. Don't forget, if the board listened to fans Fergie would probably have gone in 2004/05.

Woooaaaahh there! No-one here is talking about the fans having any say whatsoever in playing matters.

IMUSA's call is for a "small but significant" shareholding and for the Fans Forum to be democractic. Nothing more.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

It's not been ruled out. But past experience tells us that United fans don't do boycotts in significant numbers. Just look at 2005. My view is that we have to learn from previous mistkaes if we want to improve things at United.

Green and gold has been so successful because most fans feel they can join in without compromising their support for the team.

That's a fair point really. But until the vast majority of people stop going, then ticket prices will remain high. Yes, the Glazers have stuggled to fully sell all tickets this season for matches, but they're still making a huge amount of money on each game. Until attendances start to drop significantly, then it's pointless protesting for lower ticket prices, IMO.

Are they planning another price rise?

Dyslexic Untied · 2nd February 2010, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

You're confusing two issues here mate. The Fan's Forum is a Sport England (I think) requirement for the club to speak to its fans on issues like ticketing etc. All PL clubs have one. The Glazers chucked IMUSA and MUST - the only two democratic fan organisations - off it in 2005. Now it's made up of a group of fans who aren't accountable at all.

Even if the club were 100% owned by fans, they wouldn't have a say in team issues (as they don't at Barca, Madrid, Bayern Munich etc.). That would be daft.

And they would still need a Fans Forum.

Ok, thanks mate, I was confused!

But what about presidential elections and the likes, like they have in Barca and Real. Would that happen here?

In a perfect world, I'd like our team to be owned partly or completely (the latter I think is impossible) by fans. I'd like them to have a saying in everything related to tickets, OT, how the club interact with the community, perhaps even youth policy.

I don't want a completely democratic club though, where presidential candidates go out promising Messi in their campaigns. The footballing bit of running a football club doesn't fit into a democracy.

All very much IMO.

Dyslexic Untied · 2nd February 2010, 11:14

And I see sambachan has already raised most of my points.

Mitch Conor · 2nd February 2010, 11:17

is this takeover being planned on the basis of the debt being paid off as part of the purchase, with none of the investors looking to get a return on their investment above a standard dividend?

smallred · 2nd February 2010, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

Again, for anything to work you have to hit the Glazers where it hurts - their pocket. People need to stop buying tickets. Will you be renewing yours, ralph?

does this not defeat the purpose? the teams needs us. why should the team suffer cos of this c*nts?

there are other ways...

massive marches on non match days through the city to old trafford. anybody can turn up on match day and join a q, but show your real balls and how much the club means to you when there is no match on. get it on tv and show how much it means.

i love united more than i hate the glazers.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallred

does this not defeat the purpose? the teams needs us. why should the team suffer cos of this c*nts?

there are other ways...

massive marches on non match days through the city to old trafford. anybody can turn up on match day and join a q, but show your real balls and how much the club means to you when there is no match on. get it on tv and show how much it means.

i love united more than i hate the glazers.

I agree with that, but the Glazers unfortunately probably don't give a toss if you march through the streets of Manchester. So long as you keep handing them your money, prices will remain high.

I'm not having a go at anybody here, merely looking at it from a different viewpoint.

Mitch Conor · 2nd February 2010, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallred

does this not defeat the purpose? the teams needs us. why should the team suffer cos of this c*nts?

there are other ways...

massive marches on non match days through the city to old trafford. anybody can turn up on match day and join a q, but show your real balls and how much the club means to you when there is no match on. get it on tv and show how much it means.

i love united more than i hate the glazers.

the team is already suffering.

Long term survival and health of the club should be put ahead of the short term quest for trophies, imo.

Pogue Mahone · 2nd February 2010, 11:43

Out of interest, what happens if new owners won't comply with all three of the stipulations made by IMUSA?

Green and gold all over again?

Rahul · 2nd February 2010, 11:52

I don't understand this bit

Quote:

(iii) Agree to the revisiting of the ticket price reconfiguration exercise begun by IMUSA and the club in 2005 (that would have resulted in nearly 70% of ticket prices being reduced whilst keeping match-day income the same) but abandoned following the Glazer takeover (3).

Do they mean they have a way of reducing ticket prices yet keeping the same amount of match-day income each season ?

It does seem like a very good idea though. But it seems more of "do what we say" kind of statement rather than a statement giving advice to potential owners.

What would happen if a new owner came in, got rid off the debt, but didn't follow these rules ?

Rood · 2nd February 2010, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

(iii) Agree to the revisiting of the ticket price reconfiguration exercise begun by IMUSA and the club in 2005 (that would have resulted in nearly 70% of ticket prices being reduced whilst keeping match-day income the same) but abandoned following the Glazer takeover

Do you have any more detail about this?
Ive never heard about this 'ticket price reconfiguration exercise' before - how was this going to work exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

That's a fair point really. But until the vast majority of people stop going, then ticket prices will remain high. Yes, the Glazers have stuggled to fully sell all tickets this season for matches, but they're still making a huge amount of money on each game. Until attendances start to drop significantly, then it's pointless protesting for lower ticket prices, IMO.

Well I wouldnt say it is pointless to protest as it is always important to make sure your views are heard - however I totally agree that prices will not come down until attendances start to drop.
In fact, even with new ownership, I dont think ticket prices will come down, the most we can realistically hope for is that they don't go up much more or maybe that they scrap the ACS.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 11:54

To be honest, 2005 were very good value for money, and they wanted them reduced further? It seems some fans won't be happy until tickets are beind sold for virtually next to nothing. I dare say a lot of fans wouldn't be so against the ticket rises if they knew the money was being re-invested back into the club. It paying for someone else to buy the club is what irks them most, I think.

Rood · 2nd February 2010, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahul

I don't understand this bit

Do they mean they have a way of reducing ticket prices yet keeping the same amount of match-day income each season ?

I can only assume that they wanted to reduce prices at the cheaper end but whack up the prices for exec seats, boxes etc to make up the difference.

Mitch Conor · 2nd February 2010, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahul

I don't understand this bit

Do they mean they have a way of reducing ticket prices yet keeping the same amount of match-day income each season ?

It does seem like a very good idea though. But it seems more of "do what we say" kind of statement rather than a statement giving advice to potential owners.

What would happen if a new owner came in, got rid off the debt, but didn't follow these rules ?

yeah, you reduce the price of 70% of the tickets, and increase, proportionally, the price of the remaining 30% - exec boxes etc - to make up the difference.

If they got rid of the debt and didn't follow these rules, IMUSA might be pissed, but it would only be an issue if it gained traction with the rest of the support base.

All they are saying is that those are the conditions of their support for a takeover, not that those are the conditions for any take over. they obviously feel their support would be important to any takeover bid - whether you agree with that is another matter.

smallred · 2nd February 2010, 12:04

we are already strugglign to sell our exec boxes, 16 of them are empty this season and non standard revenue is down 3 million, so increasing those prices is not going to help...

reduce carling cup and fa cup tickets would be one way to start and not increasing the cl knock out stages, leave them the same as the league. maybe instead of having a flat fee for games for season tickets, maybe give one game free. thay may entice people to come back to games.

increasing prices would be a disaster IMO.

Count Duckula · 2nd February 2010, 12:05

Looking at those demands, it seems to me what they're actually doing is making sure no one buys the club. Anyone who buys Manchester United will be doing so because they want to make money, there's no two ways about it. It's too expensive to do otherwise. And that being the case, they're not going to want to cede their power and shares to fans when they've spent a fortune acquiring that power and those shares to begin with!

ralphie88 · 2nd February 2010, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by roodboy

Do you have any more detail about this?
Ive never heard about this 'ticket price reconfiguration exercise' before - how was this going to work exactly?

I wasn't privy to the exact details, but the club and IMUSA were working towards a pricing reconfiguration in 2005. That obviously ended the moment that the Glazers arrived because they needed to increase prices across the board.

smallred · 2nd February 2010, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Looking at those demands, it seems to me what they're actually doing is making sure no one buys the club. Anyone who buys Manchester United will be doing so because they want to make money, there's no two ways about it. It's too expensive to do otherwise. And that being the case, they're not going to want to cede their power and shares to fans when they've spent a fortune acquiring that power and those shares to begin with!

there is money to be made at united. the club, without debt repayments, is a massive cash cow and alwasys willl be. with the right structure, somebody who invests 750 million for example and pays off the debts included in this, (assuming the other 25% is public shares), could make that money back in about 12-15 years. thats a major ROI.

IMO, glazers are short term - grow the club, and sell off at a profit, which they are on target at doing.

Fergie's gum · 2nd February 2010, 12:26

If this was to succeed, would IMUSA consider keeping Gill in the job? I believe he's been a great chairman, and seems a decent bloke also. He's done well in representing our club, and even though he's backing the Glazers, I'm sure he would prefer United was owned by the fans. Same goes for Fergie.
What's your take?

Stretch · 2nd February 2010, 12:35

I understand the protest call to the fans but I think they got it horribly wrong with being hopeful of a new owner that will allow them all of the above. No such person with that kind of money exists on planet earth. Good luck in finding him. I think we need to start accepting the fact that if we get a new owner/s, they will buy Manchester United because it is a profitable business, not because they want to 'look out' for the fans. That's just wishful thinking and idiotic IMHO.

esmufc12 · 2nd February 2010, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie's gum

If this was to succeed, would IMUSA consider keeping Gill in the job? I believe he's been a great chairman, and seems a decent bloke also. He's done well in representing our club, and even though he's backing the Glazers, I'm sure he would prefer United was owned by the fans. Same goes for Fergie.
What's your take?

I think he's a person in a very difficult position, similarly to Fergie. If Gill goes the Glazers would get one of their own in, which would be far worse IMO.

M13 · 2nd February 2010, 12:45

I think a nice tasty fact, is that when the new TV deal was created, it was such an increase in money, that people could have gone to OT for free, without the club losing any money.

manux399 · 2nd February 2010, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Even if the club were 100% owned by fans, they wouldn't have a say in team issues (as they don't at Barca, Madrid, Bayern Munich etc.). That would be daft.

And they would still need a Fans Forum.

Don't think the manager even has a say at Real...!

Fergie's gum · 2nd February 2010, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

I think he's a person in a very difficult position, similarly to Fergie. If Gill goes the Glazers would get one of their own in, which would be far worse IMO.

So it's best to keep him on, right? I think so too. So why the polemic against Gill?

MG · 2nd February 2010, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

It's not been ruled out. But past experience tells us that United fans don't do boycotts in significant numbers. Just look at 2005. My view is that we have to learn from previous mistkaes if we want to improve things at United.

Green and gold has been so successful because most fans feel they can join in without compromising their support for the team.

I think that's the important point. Fans want to show their strong dislike of Glazer at the same time as showing their support for the team, hence the whole 'Love United Hate Glazer' slogan, which we all agree with really.

Something such as boycotting going to games is going too far in the eyes of a lot of fans. It'll probably affect the team, and the fans don't want on-field success to be lost, of course not. The green and gold campaign allows fans to support the team without supporting Glazer, that's the simplicity and the brilliance of it really, and that type of campaign is going to work.

If all ST holders didn't renew their tickets of course this would have a much worse effect on the Glazers, but a mass boycott is simply never going to happen. Fans don't want to do something that will really damage the club, even though something as drastic as that is perhaps the only way the protest is going to really achieve what it wants and get rid of the Glazers.

2nd February 2010, 10:12	#1 (permalink)
ralphie88 First Team Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Stretford Posts: 14,336	IMUSA Statement Re Recent Developments Statement from the Independent Manchester United Supporters’ Association (IMUSA) concerning possible bids to buy the club: 1st February 2010 Background The Independent Manchester United Supporters’ Association (IMUSA) was founded in 1995 and came about because of the tensions between the fans' natural enthusiasm for supporting their team and the clubs' increasingly commercial approach that required us to sit down, shut up and passively hand over ever larger amounts of money. IMUSA is now the oldest independent fans’ organisation in the country and has been consistent in its vocal opposition to the Glazers’ model of ownership. IMUSA was removed from the Manchester United Fans’ Forum in 2005 for holding these views. Support for potential bidders or consortium of bidders The purpose of this release is to make it clear that IMUSA welcomes the discussions about the possibility of ownership change at Manchester United and expresses its sincere hopes that such a bid can be successfully mounted We also wish to make it clear however, that we would only welcome this change of ownership if it resulted in the best interests of Manchester United Football Club and the United family being put first. That is, any other owner trying to impose a model based on self interest and greed, would be just as distasteful to us as the Glazers currently are. IMUSA therefore wishes to offer its full and unequivocal support to any bidder or group of bidders who will undertake to; (i) Set aside, in perpetuity, at least 25% of the shares in the club (that can neither be sold nor traded) to a Trust, (the trustees of which should include fans representatives and representatives of the local community), so that the likes of the Glazers can never inflict themselves on our club gain.(1) (ii) Establish a democratically and transparently elected Fans’ Forum and grant it powers to influence decisions about those issues that directly impinge upon the fans (2). (iii) Agree to the revisiting of the ticket price reconfiguration exercise begun by IMUSA and the club in 2005 (that would have resulted in nearly 70% of ticket prices being reduced whilst keeping match-day income the same) but abandoned following the Glazer takeover (3). Fans’ protests against the Glazers’ ownership The Glazers have thus far shown little understanding of the harm they have inflicted on Manchester United supporters. They have tried hard to spin the strength of feeling against them and have shown contempt for the protests that have thus far taken place. David Gill (CEO of Manchester United) described these protests only yesterday as being “ridiculous”. The Glazers are set to take upwards of £400 million out of the club for themselves The only way fans can prevent this happening is to starve them of cash, so that what money there is, has to be spent on Manchester United, not funding the lifestyles of its unwelcome owners. That cash flow is reduced if fans do not buy anything within the ground That cash flow is reduced if fans pledge not to renew their season tickets if the Glazers are still in control come season ticket renewal time. Fans are asked to contact comms@imusa.org if they are considering not renewing, so that we can keep a count on numbers. A website is in the process of being set up to do this also. In the meantime, all fans are encouraged to wear the Green and Gold of the protest movement to show the Glazers and the world that the Manchester United family rejects the Glazers’ and their type of greed driven ownership model. IMUSA 1/2/10 Note 1: In most clubs in Germany the fans own 51% of the shares. The 25% called for here is derived from the amount needed to prevent a company being delisted on the Stock-Exchange if it is taken over. Note 2: The Glazers have only ever made one statement directly to the fans, via a sycophantic interview on MUTV in 2005 and have never met with IMUSA, preferring instead to simply ignore the written request to do so from the then Minister of Sport, Richard Caborn and the reminder phone-calls from his office that followed. Note 3: Ticket prices under the Glazers have all but doubled for many ordinary fans and this has resulted in much of our traditional support being priced out. We wish to see this situation addressed as a matter of urgency whilst recognising the need for a certain level of match-day income.

RedCafe.net

The Leading Manchester United Forum

Member's Login

IMUSA Statement Re Recent Developments

Latest Forum Topics

Jump to Forum

Not yet registered?

2nd February 2010, 10:17	#2 (permalink)
esmufc12 Unclean Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,477	Again, for anything to work you have to hit the Glazers where it hurts - their pocket. People need to stop buying tickets. Will you be renewing yours, ralph?

2nd February 2010, 10:18	#3 (permalink)
phelans shorts First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Gaz. Is a Mewling Quim. Posts: 19,520	Right that answered alot of my worries about this, so to ensure the new owners aren't glazer like they want complete transparency on finance's etc... Or they won't be backed.

2nd February 2010, 10:51	#7 (permalink)
Dyslexic Untied First Team Sub Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,642	Re this point: (ii) Establish a democratically and transparently elected Fans’ Forum and grant it powers to influence decisions about those issues that directly impinge upon the fans (2). How would that work? What kind of power would this forum have? Equal to 25% of the shares? And what decisions will this include? I'd like for it to include matters relating to tickets, community, etc. But will it include decisions on who to buy, what manager to get etc?

2nd February 2010, 11:05	#14 (permalink)
samabachan First Team Sub Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Football is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom Posts: 9,355	We should be very careful when stipulating how much of a say the fans get. Obv=iously they have to be listened to on such things as tickets, matchgoing atmosphere etc but we all know how much of a spastic the average fan is when it comes to actual footballing opinions. For me the ideal structure would be a benevolent dictator where the fans have a relatively small but significant shareholding, or similar - we have seen the impact having gimps for fans can have on the likes of Real and Barca, with them calling for the best players in Europe every season at any cost. Don't forget, if the board listened to fans Fergie would probably have gone in 2004/05.

2nd February 2010, 11:07	#15 (permalink)
Red_Jamie Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,843	I still believe that showing support for the team comes first. If i could still afford to renew i would be doing. It just so happens that i can't justify it any more. I suppose it's almost enforced boycotting?

2nd February 2010, 11:14	#19 (permalink)
Dyslexic Untied First Team Sub Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,642	And I see sambachan has already raised most of my points.

2nd February 2010, 11:17	#20 (permalink)
Mitch Conor Holy CRAP BALLS!! Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,096	is this takeover being planned on the basis of the debt being paid off as part of the purchase, with none of the investors looking to get a return on their investment above a standard dividend?

2nd February 2010, 11:43	#24 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons from a deckchair" Posts: 59,522	Out of interest, what happens if new owners won't comply with all three of the stipulations made by IMUSA? Green and gold all over again?

2nd February 2010, 11:54	#27 (permalink)
esmufc12 Unclean Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,477	To be honest, 2005 were very good value for money, and they wanted them reduced further? It seems some fans won't be happy until tickets are beind sold for virtually next to nothing. I dare say a lot of fans wouldn't be so against the ticket rises if they knew the money was being re-invested back into the club. It paying for someone else to buy the club is what irks them most, I think.

2nd February 2010, 12:04	#30 (permalink)
smallred Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 816	we are already strugglign to sell our exec boxes, 16 of them are empty this season and non standard revenue is down 3 million, so increasing those prices is not going to help... reduce carling cup and fa cup tickets would be one way to start and not increasing the cl knock out stages, leave them the same as the league. maybe instead of having a flat fee for games for season tickets, maybe give one game free. thay may entice people to come back to games. increasing prices would be a disaster IMO.

2nd February 2010, 12:05	#31 (permalink)
Count Duckula Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. Posts: 16,095	Looking at those demands, it seems to me what they're actually doing is making sure no one buys the club. Anyone who buys Manchester United will be doing so because they want to make money, there's no two ways about it. It's too expensive to do otherwise. And that being the case, they're not going to want to cede their power and shares to fans when they've spent a fortune acquiring that power and those shares to begin with!

2nd February 2010, 12:26	#34 (permalink)
Fergie's gum Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: discarded on the hallowed turf Posts: 1,550	If this was to succeed, would IMUSA consider keeping Gill in the job? I believe he's been a great chairman, and seems a decent bloke also. He's done well in representing our club, and even though he's backing the Glazers, I'm sure he would prefer United was owned by the fans. Same goes for Fergie. What's your take?

2nd February 2010, 12:35	#35 (permalink)
Stretch First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Berbs...'Like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons from a deckchair' Posts: 5,176	I understand the protest call to the fans but I think they got it horribly wrong with being hopeful of a new owner that will allow them all of the above. No such person with that kind of money exists on planet earth. Good luck in finding him. I think we need to start accepting the fact that if we get a new owner/s, they will buy Manchester United because it is a profitable business, not because they want to 'look out' for the fans. That's just wishful thinking and idiotic IMHO.

2nd February 2010, 12:45	#37 (permalink)
M13 Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: I delete my own threads when I'm tired. Posts: 5,124	I think a nice tasty fact, is that when the new TV deal was created, it was such an increase in money, that people could have gone to OT for free, without the club losing any money.