It's the "end for United's era"

032Devil

TheGame - Times Online - WBLG: Beginning of the end for United's era of dominance

Beginning of the end for United's era of dominance
Matt Hughes


Manchester United’s collection of fringe players and youngsters swept past Tottenham Hotspur in impressive fashion on Tuesday night, which may be just as well. Given the club’s debts and glaring weaknesses in the rest of the squad Sir Alex Ferguson may become more reliant on them than even he realises in the coming years.

If crisis in football could be foreseen then they would be avoided, which is why even United must be vigilant as they move into the next decade. For all the club’s obvious advantages such as their history, global fan-base, impressive squad, outstanding manager and magnificent stadium there are growing doubts about their ability to achieve further dominance, particularly with the increasing threat of Manchester City emerging on their doorstep. (In fairness Liverpool are in an even bigger mess, but that is a different subject entirely.)

The biggest question mark at Old Trafford is one they have been facing for much of the past decade – replacing such an irreplaceable figure as Ferguson – but as he prepares to celebrate his 68th birthday later this month the elephant in the room cannot be ignored for much longer. With the exception of Jose Mourinho and possibly Fabio Capello few managers would relish stepping into Ferguson’s shoes, and a daunting task could be made even more difficult over the next couple of years by the confluence of a variety of inter-connecting factors.

Ferguson would no doubt protest until his face was even redder than normal, but United’s existing squad is one of their weakest in recent times. While the back-four remain formidable the dearth of attacking options is little short of startling. Dimitar Berbatov has not settled and looks like he will only ever be an occasional contributor at Old Trafford, Michael Owen is a shadow of his former self whose impact could be limited to a match-winning goal in the Manchester derby, while other than the admirable Darren Fletcher United’s midfield looks worryingly lightweight.

To make matters worse there is little to suggest an imminent improvement. Those magnificent servants Gary Neville, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes are coming towards the end of their careers with no sign of obvious replacements, particularly in the case of the latter two, while for all their promise the youngsters remain unproved. A club such as United will always have dozens of talented kids on their books, with Darron Gibson and Danny Wellbeck perhaps the most exciting, but there is a world of difference between ability and tangible achievement. The incredible impact of the Beckham-Neville-Scholes generation may never be felt again in such an intense competition as the Premier League, and the best the current crop can aspire to is turning themselves into useful squad players such as Fletcher, Wes Brown and John O’Shea.

To compete at the highest level these days requires the deepest of pockets, which where is fears over the club’s £700 million debt come in. United’s failure to re-invest any of the £80 million received from the sale of Cristiano Ronaldo was intriguing at the time and is now looking like a serious mistake, raising the question of whether any money was made available to Ferguson. Given the state of the financial markets the club’s £45 million-a-year repayment schedule is only going to get more onerous, and is likely to limit the extent to which they can spend their way out of any trouble.

United have come through some difficult times before, most recently when they went four years without winning a major trophy between 2003 and 2007, but were rescued from that particular lull by the inspired signings of Rooney and Ronaldo for a relative pittance. Both are once-in-a-generation players however, and there is little to suggest that their replacements are just around the corner, making the unenviable task of succeeding Ferguson all the more daunting.

With hindsight United’s joyous celebration of a third successive Premier League title last season may come to be regarded as the beginning of the end, rather than the end of the beginning.

***
We've been here before but I must admit, the future does look ominous, especially as SAF is approaching his 68th birthday. As the post-Busby era showed, it only takes one bad manager to destroy all the good work and in SAFs case, the work built over the last 23 years.

Our team needs major work done on it: A replacement for Van der Sar; the uncertaintities of Ferdinand and Vidic; an un-established rightback; a weak midfield (Scholes replacement); Giggs replacement; and one of the weakest strike force we've ever had under SAF. The fears of the Debt; the spiraling prices of the top talent world-wide.

This in not about finding a new manager but an over-view of the position United finds itself in with the likes of Sheikh Mansour, Abramovich, the bankrolled Real Madrid by its government on one side and the likes of Liverpool and United on the other side with owners who have exploited a business opportunity to earn a buck by balancing their respective clubs on the brink of financial disaster.

Plechazunga

The Secrets of your demise

charleysurf

Jesus, the Times Football section is completely run by scousers at this point.

bananaman

Yep, City beat Chelsea at hte weekend, we win and there'll be 20 articles about UTDs bright future and Chelseas demise cos of their old squad and transfer ban

Feed Me

It's the new, "where will the goals come from?"

Feed Me

When will the press learn? It's as though they habitually write Fergie off because they believe that eventually they will be right.

GaryLifo

so to summarise, we are doomed because nobody (apart from two of the best managers in the game) would want to take over from Sir Alex.

Our squad is the weakest it's ever been (though we only actually lost one player in the summer from a squad that has won three in a row and a European cup too.

Once again the "how long will Giggs, Scholes, Nev" question is asked... the same question that was asked back in 2006 summer when we had gone 4 years without a title.

Who will replace them... nobody (well possibly some of those very promising young players they've got coming through, but because they haven't won 11 premier league titles yet they never will)

The only slightly valid point in the whole thing is the concern about finances. It will come up and bite us on the arse within the next few years I'm sure, but in the mean time we are 5 points off top spot, already through in Europe, in a semi of the league cup and have the FA cup still to come.

Yes it's just awful being a United fan these days, my sense of impending doom is well founded based upon the above article. :moronjournosmiley:

RedRichio

Jesus. More truly appalling journalism. Chelsea have a squad full of over thirties and it's us who's era is over. Did I miss something or are we not still in the title race with probably more young talent at the club than at any time in it's history. Arse and poo are in a mess and it's us heading for disaster. Fuck me.

Andersonsonson

Biggest crock of biased shit i have ever read. If we are still winning trophies....then what does this say for the rest of the Premier League?

tWaTS

Kraftwerker

Unbelievable shite from The Times. I could understand low-rent journalists putting the boot in if we were out of the title race, bombed out of the cups, and looking hopeless, but we're still right in the title mix, qualified for Europe with 3 games to spare, and going strong in the Carling Cup with the FA Cup to come in the new year. It's like they want to derail us or something. You think perhaps Fergie, the players, and even us as fans, would tire of winning, but when you get the chance to prove wankers like this wrong, every single year, what's there to tire of?

Xander45

From that Secrets of Demise thread.

1. Allow an ageing, obsessive and demented manager to continue ruling with an iron fist - have him piss off the club owners, the FA, the referees society, his best players and FIFA all in one season - yeah, that'll help.

Still doing it and i don't think he'll ever change.

2. Allow same manager to sell most influential and creative midfielder for 5 bob to a team already your superior.

Change that to "for 80 million" and the point still stands.

3. Refuse to accept the passage of time with respect to Giggs and Keane - and blindly ignore the fact you have no replacements.

Passage of time with Giggs seems to have done him good. Still haven't replaced Keane and never will. Suppose replacing VDS is the big thing now.

4. Surround the Neville brothers with mediocrity to show just how poor they really are. (Portsmouth, Liverpool - both the fault of GN)

Gary's now a squad player and Phil's long gone. Maybe O'Shea is the new day Neville in terms of being underated by all outside the club.

5. Kid/convince yourselves that Brown, Forlan, Djemba Djemba, Fletcher, Bellion and Kleberson are TRULY Premiership quality - or indeed ever will be.

Those three seem to have done alright and Bellion top scored in the French league, so it looks like Fergie does know what he's on about aye?

6. Blame obvious lack of quality on the ABU conspiracy theory - "everyone's against us.. waah" (p.s. first penalty scored at OT in 10 years rather suggests a bias the other way)

I think that's Liverpool mate, wrong team.

7. Blindly believe that Arsenal are just a bunch of arrogant thugs instead of realising that they are the new benchmark, and you urgently need to address it.

The fact they've won one trophy since this post amuses me.

8. Play RVN up front by himself until you realise that doesn't work and then have to make do with any player who happens to not be in the champion's league. (Saha is a good goalscorer, lazy player)

Fair point, Ruud up front on his tod wasn't a good idea and we didn't play very well at the time. I like to call that period Fergie's mid-life crisis. We've gone back to 4-4-2 this season so can't comment.

9. Bring back an ailing and ageing OGS and believe him to still be capable of his 1990s heroics.

And he goes on to score a few vital goals in 06-07 as we regain the title. Michael Owen is the new comparison and he showed his worth in the game against City.

10. Bring in Walter Smith, who has the excellent pedigree of maintaining Everton (yes, Everton) in the bottom 5-6 of the Premiership.

Mike Phelan the new assistant, he has no pedigree in management. Oh noes.

11. Understand that with a few billion quid around elsewhere now, suddenly your buying power is inconsequential.

And with our debt it's now more so, but the lure of the club itself is more than that of the rich boys.

12. Realise that you are based in Manchester, not London, when it comes to signing world class players.

True, hence why we buy young players with potential and make them stars. That Ronaldo lad we've got our eyes on looks alright.

13. Hang on to Nicky Butt, cos apparently he's.. erm.. a key player... then play him as a winger.

I don't remember playing Butt on the wing, maybe a memory loss. I suppose this will be Fletcher now, and yes he is a key player.

14. Have, as your secret weapon, the embarassment that is Diego Forlan - worst striker in the Premiership who cost a cool 10 mill. (yes, I know he scored twice once!)

Owen, Macheda or Welbeck would be the "secret weapon" now. And each cost nothing.

Pogue Mahone

I dunno.

This Ljajic fiasco has convinced me that we've got some very troubling times ahead. This article is just the usual ill-informed bollix from some jaded hack who's been prematurely dancing on United's grave for years now. That said, I'm seriously concerned about what's going on behind the scenes at our club.

Sunny Jim

Jesus fucking Christ. the 2007-2008 United team was branded to be the best United team ever. We dont have Ronnie any more but we replace Tevez with a better striker (Berbatov), added a few very promising youngster and now what- we are weaker side. Jesus!

didsbury1982

End of an era is a bit strong. I do worry about how we are going to replace some of the older players in the future though. I don't see the quality in the squad to do that at the moment.

1871_Biscuit

So does this mean i should sell my Ryan Giggs king sized powerpod?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

It's always an end of an era for us isn't it?

Me the only worry the furture gives me is who the hell we will replace SAF with. He is miles harder to replace than Giggs or Scholes.

Average Joe

I was following this in the Ljajic thread earlier - are there any official statements from either club?

RedSky At Night

We are a weaker side. Some worrying injuries to Rio Ferdinand has knocked out probably our best defender for much of the 1st half of the season.

Ronaldo's left and we haven't got close to replacing his goals or assists. Tevez also left and although he didn't contribute much to goals, his workrate provided our other players with alot of space and his goals came at VERY important parts in the season.

We're very reliant currently on Giggs to be in the side for us to create anything upfront (see the amount of assists he has compared to the rest of our squad). Scholes is a non entity in my opinion, we've pretty much got him replaced now with Carrick/Anderson. Neville hasn't really played much football in the last few years so we've replaced him ok.

VDS is the other main worry and naturally Ferguson himself. Lets not forget the huge amount of debt we have currently attached to the club! We're not in crisis, but we're under serious threat. The last 3/4 seasons have been one of the most successful runs we've had at the club and yet it seems like we've barely dented our debt! Short term we're ok, look 2-3 years further down the line and we could be in serious, serious trouble.

teague

Yes - it is official.

Average Joe

Apologies just went to the club website now. Cheers

CnutOfAllCnuts

Not to worry.

United's "era" have ended a number of times the last 15 years.

MrsGiggs

This article is full of over the top doom-mongering and is overly critical of our club but there are some points in it that I agree to an extent with.

The debt is of course worrying, and I agree that life after Fergie will be difficult for this club. I feel our on-field success has diverted attention away from our massive debt and that is mainly down to Fergie being the great manager he is. When he leaves, and if the team perhaps goes through a few years without a trophy, that debt is going to become more of a problem to concern ourselves with.

We seemed to have been able to compete well in the transfer market since the Glazers have taken over but if we go through a trophyless stage the fact other clubs, like Real Madrid, seem to have unlimitless funds is a worry with the debt we have. The very top players are just going to get more expensive as clubs bid stupid money, and we need those top players to compete for more trophies and be an attractive club for other top players etc. It's a cycle.

It's true that our squad is reasonably weak in places as well. We really need Berbatov to settle and start scoring regularly (I'm a fan of Berbatov, before you say) to ease the pressure on Rooney and ensure we still have a top-class striker if Rooney is injured. Our midfield is an area I have long been critical of because we are going to lose Giggs and Scholes in the next few years and they are such one-of-a-kind type of players our midfield is going to be left with a massive gap when they're gone. We really need Anderson to raise his game, but I have my doubts whether he'll ever be as good as Scholes. Valencia has played well in his last few games here, but again it's unlikely he and Nani (who I've been disappointed with this season) will ever be as good as Giggs.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

We wont be replacing Giggs or Scholes. Get over it people. They are once in a generation type players.

reelworld

It's pointless to hope a young player to be as good as the club legends. What I hope is that they can fulfill their potential. And lets face it, both has that in abundance. If they do that, we'll be alright in life after Scholes and Giggs

SER19

Never mind its glaring inaccuracies,its so poorly timed and such an irrelevant piece its almost baffling. he writes about united demise in the middle of their most succesful period in the game after the reserves walked past the leagues 4th place team

also pretty sure i read thousands of these in 2001. ni im certain i did

LLMU

Agree. I have full confidence in our current crop of players and i am sure we will buy big in the future again.

blythy

I'm sure they update and publish this article every season.

Sunny Jim

I see where you’re coming from. We might be a weaker side due to a simple fact that some players are 2 years older now. But the same factor works in the youngsters favor. Gaz might be past it now, but 2 years ago was still a first choice. On the other hand Da Sivla wasn’t a choice at all.

If you look at the our squad it is obvious that we have just few world class players. But a team is relatively more than a sum of elements. And the elements we have atm co-operate well.

You might be right that we need some fresh blood. A world class left winger, right winger, attacking midfielder and a striker would sort us out for years to come. And yeah a goalie. That’s half of a new team. But there are postives- first at we have loads of players who might come through the ranks and give some options, we have time and we can afford to let them develop.

All in all – I think our men are good and yet they create a fantastic team. Yes a small reconstruction is upon us but we have done it a few times during the Fergie regime so what’s the problem? Lack of funds? Maybe- but if you have a look at the majority of the best players in our history we really bought them for low fees. The future looks good.

robthered

Given the club’s debts and glaring weaknesses in the rest of the squad Sir Alex Ferguson may become more reliant on them than even he realises in the coming years.

Stopped reading after this. Shock horror that the youngsters Fergie is putting together now may, wait for it, become an important part of the squad.

Moston Red

Please Fergie...spend a bit of cash to shut these people up!!

robthered

A big part of me would rather he didn't - it would make for more of a 'a big fuck you in your face' to the doubters.

mehro

When you calm down you wont be feeling like this.

BAMSOLA

Worst case scenario is that we didn't have the money availible for the transfer so we cancelled it, not the end of the world and if it gives another homegrown youngster the chance at first team football then excellent.

Sure something isn't right about the transfer but I can't see it as anything more than beliving that 10mil for a "prospect" was too much when the first team can do with more immediete reinforcements. Priorities change.

BazzaBear

One good reason to regard this article as the rantings of an idiot, who doesn't even know what they're trying to say themselves:

"other than the admirable Darren Fletcher United’s midfield looks worryingly lightweight."

"the best the current crop can aspire to is turning themselves into useful squad players such as Fletcher."

Slow hand clap.

moses

Success Is The New Failure.


But being glib apart, the next two transfer windows are the only thing that will answer these questions, primarily Januray, because we are a player short up top, even 2. If January fails to bring anwswers and we don't retain the league, the summer will be telling. Obvious I know, but sometimes it needs to be stated.

horselesspaul

Can't spell Welbeck. Ignore.

Pogue Mahone

Maybe. Maybe not. It's not as though this Ljajic deal is what's set me off. It's the drip drip drip of our transfer dealings since the takeover.

I think it's very much possible that we had an agreement with Real to sell Ronaldo last summer and it was this assurance that funded our only major spending in the Glazer era. If that is what happened then SAF has been running the club on an absolute shoe-string and it would explain why we missed out on Benzema, signed Michael fecking Owen and bailed on this Ljajic deal.

I will change my mind completely if/when SAF gets his next transfer target -either in January or the summer - but I'm not very optimistic.

I'm actually quite pleased at the thought of giving our kids a chance over the next few years but it pains me to think this won't be by choice and that none of the money brought in by the sale of Ronaldo and the thousands of people who turn up at OT every week is going to be re-invested into the club we support. Right now, I'm having serious doubts.

peterstorey

...there's no success like failure and... failure's no success at all

WeasteDevil

Some of us lived through quite a lot of it, and actually realise that the situation will one day return. Not to the same degree as such, there is too much money dictating the game nowadays, but we will end up in Liverpool's current and ongoing predicament at some point. RedCafe will lose 90% of its posters though.

datura

The cloak and dagger dangles..