The Kompany red card

pauldyson1uk · 8th January 2012, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

No I wouldn't - that was a fair tackle.

easy to say that now , I am calling bollocks

Annihilate Now! · 8th January 2012, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

He didn't use excessive force and it wasn't a 'two-footed tackle' which means diving in with both feet on the player.

Then what was it?? Because that's how I saw it, and how it's mostly being described...

Mockney · 8th January 2012, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

the thing is Foy may have let it go if Rooney had not reacted.

But the fact remains that was a red every day and should be enforced strictly to prevent serious injuries.

That is the reason this rule exists.

What rule? Have people invented a rule today to back up this tackle?

peterstorey · 8th January 2012, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoony Youngblood

Do you think the ref saw a dangerous tackle? or did he send Kompany off for 'diving in with both feet'.

I keep changing my mind.

It looked like he sent him off because Rooney said it was 2-footed.

madhed · 8th January 2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

Exactly. The levels people are going to to justify it are silly. Scouse levels of "looking for the positives & ignoring everything else"

'Trying to justify' ? If Nani hadn't skipped the challenge he'd be in bits right now, granted he didn't make contact but, the challenge was still studs up and 2 footed was it not ? Fuckin 'scouse levels' ?!?!?, so easy to say bein a cockney

RK · 8th January 2012, 15:39

Mockney will City win their appeal?

Raoul · 8th January 2012, 15:39

Foy made a mess of it today. Unusually harsh on the Kompany red and then the obligatory counterbalancing yellows to Nani and Welbeck to reestablish his impartiality.

Red Dreams · 8th January 2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

No I wouldn't - that was a fair tackle.

He did not have control because it was two footed.

the fact he got the ball is beside the point.

so it was not a 'fair' tackle.

EdWeatherall · 8th January 2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

Same here, although he wasn't indicating for a card. What was he doing?

Just letting the ref know it was two-footed, whether he was telling him to send him off, I don't know

But hey, City players were doing it as well.

It's just an unfortunate part of the modern day game

Snow · 8th January 2012, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

the thing is Foy may have let it go if Rooney had not reacted.

But the fact remains that was a red every day and should be enforced strictly to prevent serious injuries.

That is the reason this rule exists.

Don't be daft. The ref wasn't a 6 year old girl and Rooney wasn't a Barbie commercial.

Red Dreams · 8th January 2012, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

What rule? Have people invented a rule today to back up this tackle?

it was two footed tackle Mock. If you say it was not, then I can see your argument.

But it was.

MUFCgal · 8th January 2012, 15:41

They are appealing it.

noodlehair · 8th January 2012, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

He didn't use excessive force and it wasn't a 'two-footed tackle' which means diving in with both feet on the player.

Doesn't need to be two footed I don't think, and he did kind of use excessive force because he threw himself into the tackle when there was no need to...though he was clearly just worried about getting the ball. Think Evans vs Bolton last season. It was similar except Nani wasn't daft enough to not get out of the way.

Worst thing I thought was that Foy only seemed to send him off becuase Rooney basically told him to, and then spent the rest of the game refereeing based on the fact he'd sent a City player off.

Isn't he the same guy who made a mess of the Stoke vs Spurs game only a few weeks back too?

TheReligion · 8th January 2012, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdWeatherall

Just letting the ref know it was two-footed, whether he was telling him to send him off, I don't know

But hey, City players were doing it as well.

It's just an unfortunate part of the modern day game

Oh I agree, City do it all the time, as does their manager.

Red Dreams · 8th January 2012, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

Don't be daft. The ref wasn't a 6 year old girl and Rooney wasn't a Barbie commercial.

looked like to me.

But you many be right that he was going to action anyways....maybe not a red.

Mockney · 8th January 2012, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

it was two footed tackle Mock. If you say it was not, then I can see your argument.

But it was.

A two footed tackle isn't an automatic red card. Nowhere in the rules does it say it has to be either.

RonaldoVII · 8th January 2012, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUFCgal

They are appealing it.

Letter of the law says red so hopefully it will be increased but I doubt it.

Mockney · 8th January 2012, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK

Mockney will City win their appeal?

I have absolutely no idea. If they do, do I win the argument?

Joga_Bonito · 8th January 2012, 15:44

I have no problem with Kompany's challenge being deemed a red card offence. It was two-footed and the momentum of the challenge was quite forceful.

That there was no contact was almost certainly due to fortune as it's not possible to challenge like that and remain in complete control of movement.

If that's not a red card, what exactly is it that makes a two-footed challenge worthy of a red card? If it is the amount of contact that is made, the very fact that Kompany had no control once he had started the movement, coupled with the force with which the challenge was made, clearly indicates that had contact been made there is an increased risk of the opposing player being injured.

I would therefore argue that it is much more sensible to completely outlaw any two-footed challenge than to allow the opponents fate to be dictated by fortune, and particularly as the use of both feet in order to win the ball is absolutely unnecessary.

Snow · 8th January 2012, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

looked like to me.

But you many be right that he was going to action anyways....maybe not a red.

I don't believe for a second that players can influence refs at top level, beside feigning injuries. The refs have made up their mind as soon as they blow the whistle.

Red Dreams · 8th January 2012, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

Doesn't need to be two footed I don't think, and he did kind of use excessive force because he threw himself into the tackle when there was no need to...though he was clearly just worried about getting the ball. Think Evans vs Bolton last season. It was similar except Nani wasn't daft enough to not get out of the way.

Worst thing I thought was that Foy only seemed to send him off becuase Rooney basically told him to, and then spent the rest of the game refereeing based on the fact he'd sent a City player off.

Isn't he the same guy who made a mess of the Stoke vs Spurs game only a few weeks back too?

Foy was so poor today....his trying to be 'fair' to City included denying us a second penalty

Ixion · 8th January 2012, 15:45

It won't be rescinded.

Snow · 8th January 2012, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

I have absolutely no idea. If they do, do I win the argument?

If it's retracted you win 20 internets.

prateik · 8th January 2012, 15:46

Have seen it a few times and can understand why City would be angry at that.
I would be too if it was our player getting sent off for that.

But still maintain Nani had no chance of keeping the ball there.
Either get cleaned out or jump out.

Zarlak · 8th January 2012, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

The rules also don't stipulate that a "two footed" tackle is an automatic red card.

They do.... it was pasted in the match day forum. It went something along the lines of 'should a player challenge with both feet off the ground, he is not in control of himself and will be dismissed.' Can't remember exactly the wording.

Sarni · 8th January 2012, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazalini

massive loss for City in terms of Premiership. Could turn City's season all round that decision

He'll only miss one or two PL games.

EdWeatherall · 8th January 2012, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

A two footed tackle isn't an automatic red card. Nowhere in the rules does it say it has to be either.

You are correct that the rules doesn't mention anything about two-footed

“Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.

That's the relevant paragraph

I guess you could say him using his second foot exceeded what was necessary And he is definitely in danger of injuring his opponent when you have two feet involved like that

Any two-footed tackle has the potential to cause real injury to a player and we don't need those kinds of tackles in the game, so I have no problem with any player sent off for a tackle like Kompany's if it eradicates two-footed tackles from football

I'll agree with people who say it was 'harsh', but only in the sense that worse tackles go unpunished most weeks

Red Dreams · 8th January 2012, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

I don't believe for a second that players can influence refs at top level, beside feigning injuries. The refs have made up their mind as soon as they blow the whistle.

the influence is that a red may be waived instead of a yellow or a yellow instead of just a foul given.

I would not say Foy is consistently weak. but today was an off day for him.

Liam147 · 8th January 2012, 15:48

I'm sorry, but he went in two footed with studs up. That he got the ball was irrelevant. It's dangerous, overly-aggressive play.

Jay Spearing got the ball, yet you all say that was a red cos he caught the player, well what was Nani meant to do? Stand there and take the two-footed, studs up tackle, and risk a serious injury just to get him sent off?

Double standards with you lot, honestly.

Shimo · 8th January 2012, 15:48

Neville got sent off in a CC game a couple seasons ago when he won the ball but, carried on into the player with 2 feet. Getting the ball first doesn't make a reckless challenge and less reckless.

It was harsh and we got rub of the green with Foy sticking to the law rather than perhaps using Webb-esque sense to prevent "spoiling" the game.

Zarlak · 8th January 2012, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

They do.... it was pasted in the match day forum. It went something along the lines of 'should a player challenge with both feet off the ground, he is not in control of himself and will be dismissed.' Can't remember exactly the wording.

Found it.

"A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed."

Nowhere does it say that you can only be given a red for making contact. There doesn't have to be contact to be dismissed. The red is perfectly within the rules.

Vidic_In_Moscow · 8th January 2012, 15:48

Harsh/unfortunate no doubt, but I don't think there are grounds for a successful appeal.

Annihilate Now! · 8th January 2012, 15:50

"two-footed tackle" isn't in the rules per say... but I think everyone at this point know's that the F.A have asked the referee's to clamp down and punish "two-footed tackles" with a red-card, as they view it as dangerous play/excessive... and it is, because ultimatley you do NOT need two feet to win the football. Kompany left the ground, with BOTH feet, and as soon as he does this he is using excessive force.

Smores · 8th January 2012, 15:50

Imo there's no argument over whether it should be a red or not, it was correctively given. However, there is an argument whether the rules are incorrect and a little too harsh/inflexible

Lawman · 8th January 2012, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irwin

There's no way both of his feet could have hit the same leg, if he had made contact with Nani it would have been the same as a one footed challenge with studs up but low to the ground.

WTF Irwin it was a 2 footed lunge buddy.

Irwin · 8th January 2012, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joga_Bonito

That there was no contact was almost certainly due to fortune as it's not possible to challenge like that and remain in complete control of movement.

If that's not a red card, what exactly is it that makes a two-footed challenge worthy of a red card? If it is the amount of contact that is made, the very fact that Kompany had no control once he had started the movement, coupled with the force with which the challenge was made, clearly indicates that had contact been made there is an increased risk of the opposing player being injured.

I don't understand the 'no control' argument, it's not like in a normal challenge the player has so much control he can easily steer his foot away from the opposition player's leg. It's because when you go in two footed, your legs are straight and don't bend at the knee on impact so there's more force. Additionally, the player's legs are usually together so the force is even greater when both feet have the same point of impact at the same time.

Mockney · 8th January 2012, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

Found it.

"A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed."

Nowhere does it say that you can only be given a red for making contact. There doesn't have to be contact to be dismissed. The red is perfectly within the rules.

That quote is from a spokesman from the FA, in an interview talking about the two footed tackle, not from the rules. (I don't think, could be wrong)

Referees are just 'applying law' on two-footed tackle - News & Comment - Football - The Independent

Even if so, it leaves it up to the referees judgement. It's not a "law" that a two footed tackle = RED

Spoony Youngblood · 8th January 2012, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

Found it.

"A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed."

Nowhere does it say that you can only be given a red for making contact. There doesn't have to be contact to be dismissed. The red is perfectly within the rules.

If that's correct... Foy made the right decision.

The Neviller · 8th January 2012, 15:53

Once both feet leave the ground, studs showing and in a scissor motion there is only going to be one outcome. Doesn't matter whether he got the ball or didn't make contact with the man, you can't dive in like that.

peterstorey · 8th January 2012, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irwin

I don't understand the 'no control' argument, it's not like in a normal challenge the player has so much control he can easily steer his foot away from the opposition player's leg. It's because when you go in two footed, your legs are straight and don't bend at the knee on impact so there's more force. Additionally, the player's legs are usually together so the force is even greater when both feet have the same point of impact at the same time.

Most of the people in this thread don't know what a 'two-footed tackle' means.

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8th January 2012, 15:39	#166 (permalink)
RK First Team Regular Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,933	Mockney will City win their appeal?

8th January 2012, 15:39	#167 (permalink)
Raoul Administrator Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Budapest Posts: 39,793	Foy made a mess of it today. Unusually harsh on the Kompany red and then the obligatory counterbalancing yellows to Nani and Welbeck to reestablish his impartiality.

8th January 2012, 15:41	#172 (permalink)
MUFCgal First Team Regular Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belfast,Northern Ireland Posts: 17,827	They are appealing it.

8th January 2012, 15:44	#179 (permalink)
Joga_Bonito Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: He’ll play upon, Your naturalistic intuitions, He’ll lure you in, With the promise of positions that you love...And then you’re caught in the web, No support from the a priori, All aboard Neurath’s ship, It will all be fine. Posts: 1,192	I have no problem with Kompany's challenge being deemed a red card offence. It was two-footed and the momentum of the challenge was quite forceful. That there was no contact was almost certainly due to fortune as it's not possible to challenge like that and remain in complete control of movement. If that's not a red card, what exactly is it that makes a two-footed challenge worthy of a red card? If it is the amount of contact that is made, the very fact that Kompany had no control once he had started the movement, coupled with the force with which the challenge was made, clearly indicates that had contact been made there is an increased risk of the opposing player being injured. I would therefore argue that it is much more sensible to completely outlaw any two-footed challenge than to allow the opponents fate to be dictated by fortune, and particularly as the use of both feet in order to win the ball is absolutely unnecessary.

8th January 2012, 15:45	#182 (permalink)
Ixion First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,872	It won't be rescinded.

8th January 2012, 15:46	#184 (permalink)
prateik First Team Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 19,029	Have seen it a few times and can understand why City would be angry at that. I would be too if it was our player getting sent off for that. But still maintain Nani had no chance of keeping the ball there. Either get cleaned out or jump out.

8th January 2012, 15:48	#189 (permalink)
Liam147 Yoko Ono Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: "It aint the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Posts: 8,784	I'm sorry, but he went in two footed with studs up. That he got the ball was irrelevant. It's dangerous, overly-aggressive play. Jay Spearing got the ball, yet you all say that was a red cos he caught the player, well what was Nani meant to do? Stand there and take the two-footed, studs up tackle, and risk a serious injury just to get him sent off? Double standards with you lot, honestly.

8th January 2012, 15:48	#190 (permalink)
Shimo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,968	Neville got sent off in a CC game a couple seasons ago when he won the ball but, carried on into the player with 2 feet. Getting the ball first doesn't make a reckless challenge and less reckless. It was harsh and we got rub of the green with Foy sticking to the law rather than perhaps using Webb-esque sense to prevent "spoiling" the game.

8th January 2012, 15:48	#192 (permalink)
Vidic_In_Moscow First Team Sub Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,445	Harsh/unfortunate no doubt, but I don't think there are grounds for a successful appeal.

8th January 2012, 15:50	#193 (permalink)
Annihilate Now! First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Argh Posts: 7,365	"two-footed tackle" isn't in the rules per say... but I think everyone at this point know's that the F.A have asked the referee's to clamp down and punish "two-footed tackles" with a red-card, as they view it as dangerous play/excessive... and it is, because ultimatley you do NOT need two feet to win the football. Kompany left the ground, with BOTH feet, and as soon as he does this he is using excessive force.

8th January 2012, 15:50	#194 (permalink)
Smores First Team Sub Join Date: May 2011 Location: Dark side of the moon Posts: 6,452	Imo there's no argument over whether it should be a red or not, it was correctively given. However, there is an argument whether the rules are incorrect and a little too harsh/inflexible

8th January 2012, 15:53	#199 (permalink)
The Neviller First Team Sub Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 8,353	Once both feet leave the ground, studs showing and in a scissor motion there is only going to be one outcome. Doesn't matter whether he got the ball or didn't make contact with the man, you can't dive in like that.