Machine gun gestures during Adebayor substitutiion?

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by theimperialinn

I always say the same thing when these subjects on tasteless chants arise, fuck it. There's nothing you can do it, it's impossible to police. We are as bad as anyone else but then get on a moral high horse every time someone throws a set of aeroplane arms our way. Just ignore it and enjoy the game.

Missile throwing happens at loads of big derby games. The culprit has been caught and will be dealt with.

Pretty much agree with all of that.

It's the attempt to justify some fans acting like twats which rubs people up the wrong way.

The policing issue is a bit of a side-track. All any individual fan can do, realistically, is refuse to join in. This whole machine-gun thing is a real shame though. Every club has it's cunts but that really is despicable. Embarrassing really.

Mockney · 29th January 2010, 09:38

It's the one for all attitude thats sort of instinctive...But when things happen that you'd likely pillor opposition fans for, or wouldn't accept in normal society, it becomes hypocritical. The whole "must try and an excuse anyone who's a red" mentality is self defeating...and I can't see anyone trying to excuse Mick Hucknall

Moyespopper · 29th January 2010, 09:59

Not much other match going fans can do about it. You'd want to be a total fucking dickhead to do something like that but there's plenty of them in the world!

As for throwing coins etc, well its just irresponsible, there are kids etc in the crowd and lobbing something you have no idea where its going to land or what damage its going to do... if one takes a kids eye out some day would it be worth it?

Aside from that, is a cunt like Bellamy or anyone else worth getting yourself a life time ban over?

ralphie88 · 29th January 2010, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

If you went to a club and at the end of the night someone whose mate had been shot started to get mocked with gun gestures and then someone else threw a bottle at that blokes mate, would you instantly leap to the defence of the rest of the people there?..and then claim anyone who spoke out against it was on their 'high horse' or a 'drama queen'....Can you see why that makes no sense?

That's not the comparison. The comparison would be if you were watching The Hit Man and Her (remember that?

) and saw someone doing it in the background and then went on an internet forum to mither with loads of other people who saw it on the TV.... oh hang on a minute, the internet didn't exist then.......

Anyway, I guess my point is that the ones who are always most up in arms about this are usually the ones who don't go to games.

I'm not defending doing machine gun guestures (I didn't actually see any myself) in the ground, but I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things that happen at a derby game (crowd crushes, violence, ejections for doing fuck all etc.), it's not a biggie.

ralphie88 · 29th January 2010, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfingers15

I'll tell you what though, if you, Ralphie or whomever that moron is, was sat beside me, when he was throwing that coin, I'd have chinned you, but if you are bigger than me, I'd have asked the fat bastard sitting next to me, to chin you.

Well I'm not still in primary school, so the chances are you would need to ask your Dad to chin me.

Rahul · 29th January 2010, 10:24

All fans have there minority of idiots.

Remember the "You should have died in the tunnel" chants directed at Ronaldo. He didn't seem too fazed about it.

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahul

All fans have there minority of idiots.

Remember the "You should have died in the tunnel" chants directed at Ronaldo. He didn't seem too fazed about it.

Probably because noone actually died.

ralphie88 · 29th January 2010, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Probably because noone actually died.

I reckon he wouldn't have been too fazed about it if he'd died either.

fergieisold · 29th January 2010, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Pfft. With specific reference to the Bellamy incident, let's not forget that this was the player who ran 20 yards to punch a United fan in the face when he was being restrained by stewards.

Did the FA ban him for that assault? Did they fuck.

Did the police charge him? Did they fuck.

And then he's rolling around as if he's been hit by a blunderbuss because a 2 penny piece grazes his skull (not as if it's going to do him brain damage is it?).

Perhaps if the FA and police had done their jobs then people wouldn't feel the need to take the law into their own hands? Just a thought.

It's amazing the difference in response to two similar incidents. Maybe they should ban Bellamy from football ground for his part in football hooliganism?

gaffs · 29th January 2010, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

So what?

FFS!!! No one is critisizing the United fans in general, why the fuck are people still trying to excuse, play down, justify, sympathize and generally ignore the idiocy and severity of any cunt who throws bottles at people from within an anonymous crowd??

I dont think anyone is trying to do that.

People who lob bottles and coins onto the pitch are idiots and they should be
banned from the stadium and dealt with by the police..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

I honestly don't get it. This all for one and one for all attitude is retarded...especially as the support was magnificent Wednesday and these cunts have taken the gloss off that. They should be pillored for it by the fans, not stuck up for..And as for the machine guns, well as Pogue says, good luck getting sympathy next time someone does an airplane and you think it's despicable

Where is this "all for one and one for all attitude"? No one is supporting the actions of these idiots. But its true to say that its only a tiny percentage that don’t behave correctly – sadly its those who get talked about.

This self policing stuff is bollocks - its the police and stewards responsibility to control the crowd.

I was merely pointing out that Bellemy was mouthing off to the crowd before taking the corner - if he hadn’t have done that, he wouldn’t have been hit by a coin.

As I say, im not justifying anyone’s actions or supporting them, but players have a responsibility to act correctly.

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 12:41

I can see all these people who sit in front of the TV during the match, arguing against our support in the ground on matters that frankly they are clueless about.

Now I did not see anyone make any machine gun gestures. Did any other matchgoer see anything like this? If so please do say here.

Mockney · 29th January 2010, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

That's not the comparison. The comparison would be if you were watching The Hit Man and Her (remember that?

) and saw someone doing it in the background and then went on an internet forum to mither with loads of other people who saw it on the TV.... oh hang on a minute, the internet didn't exist then.......

Anyway, I guess my point is that the ones who are always most up in arms about this are usually the ones who don't go to games.

I'm sure they are. But what difference does that actually make? I didn't go to the may day rally but I can still say the people trying to smash the windows of John Lewis (a workers co-operative!) were fucking idiots.

I go to games ralphie, mainly England, London and Wembley ones now to be fair (I'll be at the final if you fancy a pint

)but I used to go OT regularly when I was living in Leeds, and I never get or got the urge to instantly defend or more accurately, deflect attention away from the troublesome few. I know they're a tiny minority of fans, especially at OT, but when I do see them, I see them as an embarrassment. Because I know if I've enjoyed myself I'll go an tell everyone how great it was and they'll probably reply "yeah but what about the hooliganism?" or some such, and the papers will focus on it almost exclusively...Take the United > England thing, a view held in part because of a tiny faction of fucking stupid England fans chanting horrible shit at Becks in Euro 2000...I was at that tournament (not that game tho) And I got angry at the idiots that had caused the media over reaction, not at the people over reacting. Cos in the scheme of being a violent, abusive, insensative cock, and being an over reactionary drama queen, the former is a far more condemnable offence.

All I'm saying is that I think you, and others, come in these threads with the pre-planned agenda of although not defending these fans, sort of trying to play down and deflect attention away from, or in the worst cases, excuse them. For the same reason as above, your great experience is being lambasted because of a tiny minority, but I think you're aiming your annoyance at the wrong crowd. Which I think is a bit silly (not in all cases though, I remember you did stirling work tryna get the Rome thug identified, kudos for that - and I'm not talking directly about you at all). I understand it, but I think there's an us and them mentality and the "us" has a very heavy leaning towards the idiots than the armchairs....Like you feel more solidarity with them just because they went to the game so you feel like you have to try and defend them in some all be it small way because of it...I don't think I've ever seen one of the Top red massive (sorry about the phrasing, but it's the easiest way) ever come in one of these 'crowd violence threads' and not have a go at the people over reacting or in some way try and blame the police, or the player or something else...With the exception of instances where reds themselves have been affected. I just think it'd be better of universally condemned and then we can leave it. Cos tollerence or excuse mongering of it just means it wont go away.

Quote:

I'm not defending doing machine gun guestures (I didn't actually see any myself) in the ground, but I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things that happen at a derby game (crowd crushes, violence, ejections for doing fuck all etc.), it's not a biggie.

I agree, but that annoys me more because the crowd were so good on wednesday that those few idiots have tarred it in some peoples minds with their idiocy. In the papers for example, it's fucking annoying to read about that and not the thumping atmosphere, but the blame must lie with them for that. To use a very extreme example, the relative inaction in the vastly peaceful muslim word of unanimously condemning the extremists (lets just say the people like Islam4UK, not the bombers cos that would be taking it too far) doesn't reflect too well on the muslim world. Everyone would be better off if the people with the power and influence to affect change, i.e. the people these idiots see as their friends and peers, condemned it fully too, thus not making them feel so safe in numbers to do it again?..

Massive rambling rant over...I hope that made some sense

Oh and..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

I reckon he wouldn't have been too fazed about it if he'd died either.

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgainstAllOdds

I can see all these people who sit in front of the TV during the match, arguing against our support in the ground on matters that frankly they are clueless about.

Now I did not see anyone make any machine gun gestures. Did any other matchgoer see anything like this? If so please do say here.

What? Again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrathsipan

yeah i saw something like that when adebayor was warming up

Quote:

Originally Posted by datura

It did happen, and when he was warming up too. Some people really need to look at themselves.

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

What? Again?

Well it's obviously not fairly noticeable if just a couple have noticed it.

Also it depends where it was and how its interpreted. It's fairly common for people to shake their wrists and do a wanker sign at the players, especially at the biggest wanker there is in football. Maybe people saw these as machine gun gestures.

I did not see anything coming from the East Stand and neither did Heap. None of my mates said anything about it either. It must have come from somewhere in the South Stand because that's where he was closest to. He barely even looked at the East and even his racist song didn't get that much of an airing. Only when we joined in with their City song and even then it was few people.

The south standers are not your average match-going fan. Usually there's people like yourself there, those who can be arsed to make their way to a match once in a couple of months and who like to sit and watch the football quietly. Kids too.

I hope I'm not stereotyping much?

Sir A1ex · 29th January 2010, 13:13

This thread confuses me a lot...

Starts with the opinion "People doing machine gun gestures are a disgrace"...

...Ralphie and others conribute the opininon that CES & the police should be on to these people and chuck them out....

...Ralphie and others get slagged off because appraently this is justifying the machine gun gesturing idiots?

If I said that I think the police should do mroe to stop terrorists, does this mean I support terrorism?
What is this place, Bizarro World?

Moyespopper · 29th January 2010, 13:18

As far as both incidents go (coins and gestures)

- Its not representative of the majority of our support.
- Its a shitty, stupid thing for someone to do.
- No one really wants to see it happening.
- Its a pain in the hole that the actions of a few idiots get so much attention.
- The stewards & police should stop it when it happens.

I think we'd all agree with those points wouldn't we?

I dont really see what there is to argue about apart from people getting a bit over-sensitive.

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgainstAllOdds

Well it's obviously not fairly noticeable if just a couple have noticed it.

Also it depends where it was and how its interpreted. It's fairly common for people to shake their wrists and do a wanker sign at the players, especially at the biggest wanker there is in football. Maybe people saw these as machine gun gestures.

I did not see anything coming from the East Stand and neither did Heap. None of my mates said anything about it either. It must have come from somewhere in the South Stand (that's where he was warming up) because that's where he was closest to. He barely even looked at the East and even his racist song didn't get that much of an airing. Only when we joined in with their City song and even then it was few people.

The south standers are not your average match-going fan. Usually there's people like yourself there, those who can be arsed to make their way to a match once in a couple of months and who like to sit and watch the football quietly. Kids too.

I hope I'm not stereotyping much?

You're stereotyping alright but it's the distinct lack of logic that stands out the most.

You seem to be trying to blame the South Stand while at the same time portraying it as being usually full of intermittent attendees and kids, who like to sit and watch the football quietly.

As someone who occasionally frequents that particular stand I agree with your general gist of your description which makes it all the more unlikely the South stand fans would be getting Elephant/Whore chants going or abusing Adebayor in general.

Sir A1ex · 29th January 2010, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

occasionally frequents

Can you do that?

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

You're stereotyping alright but it's the distinct lack of logic that stands out the most.

You seem to be trying to blame the South Stand while at the same time portraying it as being usually full of intermittent attendees and kids, who like to sit and watch the football quietly.

As someone who occasionally frequents that particular stand I agree with your general gist of your description which makes it all the more unlikely the South stand fans would be getting Elephant/Whore chants going or abusing Adebayor in general.

Quote:

He barely even looked at the East and even his racist song didn't get that much of an airing. Only when we joined in with their City song and even then it was few people.

This bit here does explain that I was talking about his song not even getting an airing in East Stand. Surely?

And as for the kiddies comments, well those who are fairly immature would be expected to do such a thing. Surely?

Therefore that's why I said the culprits must have been in the South Stand. Unless it was the disabled supporters underneath the City fans? Surely not?

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

Can you do that?

Good question.

I was gonna go with "intermittently" but I'd already used it elsewhere in the post and I try not to be repetitive with my adverbs.

If some pedantic cunt now points out that they aren't adverbs I'm going to have to slap them.

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgainstAllOdds

This bit here does explain that I was talking about his song not even getting an airing in East Stand. Surely?

And as for the kiddies comments, well those who are fairly immature would be expected to do such a thing. Surely?

Therefore that's why I said the culprits must have been in the South Stand. Unless it was the disabled supporters underneath the City fans? Surely not?

This bit is just wrong though.

Quote:

He barely even looked at the East

He looked up at the East a few times and acknowledged the City fans applauding him. So if you're gonna get basics like that wrong I'm not sure I can be certain about the rest of what you said.

Surely?

Dr. Dwayne · 29th January 2010, 13:34

pretty ignorant if anyone made machine gun gestures should you ask me, regardless of what happened to the Togolese team.

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

This bit is just wrong though.

He looked up at the East a few times and acknowledged the City fans applauding him. So if you're gonna get basics like that wrong I'm not sure I can be certain about the rest of what you said.

Surely?

That is correct that they were in the East Stand, but it's not what I meant to say. I meant to say the East part where United supporters were.

The blue represents the city fans in the East. The red dot is me. The pink line Adebayor warming up. I'm not sure how much they had of the Tier above me though as they weren't that vocal.

The vocal supporters were to our left, and they were the ones Adebayor was clapping a couple of times, which technically is in the East Stand but no United supporters were there, except for the disabled ones.

He didn't once turn his head and clap the ones above us as they were literally singing fuck all up until they scored the goal, where really most of the noise came form jumping up and down.

I might have missed when he turned to clap them, because we were actually busy celebrating Carricks goal, and mocking the City support to our left at that time, but to be honest I don't think that anyone had time to make machine gun gestures at Adebayor then.

As I said he was closest to the South Stand United supporters and they might have been the ones who were making those stupid gestures.

gaffs · 29th January 2010, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

As far as both incidents go (coins and gestures)

- Its not representative of the majority of our support.
- Its a shitty, stupid thing for someone to do.
- No one really wants to see it happening.
- Its a pain in the hole that the actions of a few idiots get so much attention.
- The stewards & police should stop it when it happens.

I think we'd all agree with those points wouldn't we?

I dont really see what there is to argue about apart from people getting a bit over-sensitive.

Spot on.

No one is defending the actions of a tiny minority.

peterstorey · 29th January 2010, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

As far as both incidents go (coins and gestures)

- Its not representative of the majority of our support.
- Its a shitty, stupid thing for someone to do.
- No one really wants to see it happening.
- Its a pain in the hole that the actions of a few idiots get so much attention.
- The stewards & police should stop it when it happens.

I think we'd all agree with those points wouldn't we?

I dont really see what there is to argue about apart from people getting a bit over-sensitive.

Amen. Well you'd think so but I reckon there's a another hundred posts in it.

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgainstAllOdds

That is correct that they were in the East Stand, but it's not what I meant to say. I meant to say the East part where United supporters were.

The blue represents the city fans in the East. The red dot is me. The pink line Adebayor warming up. I'm not sure how much they had of the Tier above me though as they weren't that vocal.

The vocal supporters were to our left, and they were the ones Adebayor was clapping a couple of times, which technically is in the East Stand but no United supporters were there, except for the disabled ones.

He didn't once turn his head and clap the ones above us as they were literally singing fuck all up until they scored the goal, where really most of the noise came form jumping up and down.

I might have missed when he turned to clap them, because we were actually busy celebrating Carricks goal, and mocking the City support to our left at that time, but to be honest I don't think that anyone had time to make machine gun gestures at Adebayor then.

As I said he was closest to the South Stand United supporters and they might have been the ones who were making those stupid gestures.

Thanks for the geography lesson but your own diagram shows that he was warming up in direct proximity to United fans in the East stand, disabled and otherwise. The television coverage also clearly showed him acknowledging the City fans seated directly above you, almost all of whom were giving him a standing ovation as he warmed up.

This is all moot though and feck knows why it matters to you to blame it all on United fans who happened to be in a different stand to you. Does that really make any difference to what's being discussed?

gaffs · 29th January 2010, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

You're stereotyping alright but it's the distinct lack of logic that stands out the most.

You seem to be trying to blame the South Stand while at the same time portraying it as being usually full of intermittent attendees and kids, who like to sit and watch the football quietly.

As someone who occasionally frequents that particular stand I agree with your general gist of your description which makes it all the more unlikely the South stand fans would be getting Elephant/Whore chants going or abusing Adebayor in general.

The guy caught on TV doing the machine gun gesture was in the South Stand.

No one was getting the "Elephant/Whore chants going". The City fans sing their song "The City is Ours", which is sung to the same tune as the Adebayor song. Some United fans (one or two near me) sing the Elephant Song ontop of the City fans.

In the same way fans of crap clubs like Bolton sing "your gonna win fuck all" if were having a crap season. Our fans will then start singing "you always win fuck all" over the top.

niMic · 29th January 2010, 14:05

I genuinely can't believe we have people here actually defending it. Perhaps not agreeing with it, but almost justifying it.

Nope, scratch that, I can believe it. This is the Caf.

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Thanks for the geography lesson but your own diagram shows that he was warming up in direct proximity to United fans in the East stand, disabled and otherwise. The television coverage also clearly showed him acknowledging the City fans seated directly above you, almost all of whom were giving him a standing ovation as he warmed up.

This is all moot though and feck knows why it matters to you to blame it all on United fans who happened to be in a different stand to you. Does that really make any difference to what's being discussed?

Just to point out that they are not your average match-going fan, and that the blame should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves".

gaffs · 29th January 2010, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by niMic

I genuinely can't believe we have people here actually defending it. Perhaps not agreeing with it, but almost justifying it.

Nope, scratch that, I can believe it. This is the Caf.

Who is defending it?

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgainstAllOdds

Just to point out that they are not your average match-going fan, and that the blame should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves".

Oh right, and the blame for flinging bottles and coins on the pitch should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves"? (whoever the fuck "yourselves" are)

Sultan · 29th January 2010, 14:15

Atmosphere is what makes football supporters go to matches. Matches like that on wednesday has a drug like effect. Football matches are those rare events in life where we can let go to some extent.

I think the desire on some peoples part to condition fans and become more gentile will backfire. More than money I reckon lack of atmosphere at grounds is driving people away.

Just imagine the game on wednesday was played out with merely hand claps at any piece of good play, for any side, and perhaps have the same unified chant such as ‘kick the ball, lets win together, yay! both the supporters and the players would soon lose passion for the game in no time.

The irony is unsavoury chants is helping football by creating rivalries. As long as it's not racist, or physical it's no big deal.

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Oh right, and the blame for flinging bottles and coins on the pitch should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves"? (whoever the fuck "yourselves" are)

There's another thread to discuss the Bellamy incident.

It's called, predictably enough, "The Bellamy Incident".

The Bellamy Incident

Utd heap · 29th January 2010, 14:16

What a bizarre thread.

Only on the Caf eh, and that's not a dig, 'cos i contributed!

gaffs · 29th January 2010, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Oh right, and the blame for flinging bottles and coins on the pitch should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves"? (whoever the fuck "yourselves" are)

Do you not think Bellamy is partly to blame for provoking the crowd?

Adzzz · 29th January 2010, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

What is this place, Bizarro World?

In short, yes.

Pogue Mahone · 29th January 2010, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgainstAllOdds

There's another thread to discuss the Bellamy incident.

It's called, predictably enough, "The Bellamy Incident".

The Bellamy Incident

Who's discussing the incident?

I'm just trying to be clear on what the fuck you mean by "yourselves" and how they're apparently responsible for all the idiocy that took place on Wednesday night.

Sultan · 29th January 2010, 14:27

Can someone tell me how the stewards or the police can stop such gestures however idiotic?

Are they even illegal?

Sultan · 29th January 2010, 14:32

I'd like to know how other supporters feel on this question.

I don't now feel anything when opposing fans make aeroplane gestures or sing Munich songs. Is there something wrong with me?

AgainstAllOdds · 29th January 2010, 14:37

It's a matter of personal opinion in the end Sultan.

I'm disgusted by anyone that mocks the dead, or wishes injury/death to anyone.

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29th January 2010, 09:38	#82 (permalink)
Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year twice Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bangerang Posts: 29,083	It's the one for all attitude thats sort of instinctive...But when things happen that you'd likely pillor opposition fans for, or wouldn't accept in normal society, it becomes hypocritical. The whole "must try and an excuse anyone who's a red" mentality is self defeating...and I can't see anyone trying to excuse Mick Hucknall

29th January 2010, 09:59	#83 (permalink)
Moyespopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 54,131	Not much other match going fans can do about it. You'd want to be a total fucking dickhead to do something like that but there's plenty of them in the world! As for throwing coins etc, well its just irresponsible, there are kids etc in the crowd and lobbing something you have no idea where its going to land or what damage its going to do... if one takes a kids eye out some day would it be worth it? Aside from that, is a cunt like Bellamy or anyone else worth getting yourself a life time ban over?

29th January 2010, 10:24	#86 (permalink)
Rahul First Team Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hunting The Hunter ! Posts: 12,667	All fans have there minority of idiots. Remember the "You should have died in the tunnel" chants directed at Ronaldo. He didn't seem too fazed about it.

29th January 2010, 12:41	#91 (permalink)
AgainstAllOdds Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2,802	I can see all these people who sit in front of the TV during the match, arguing against our support in the ground on matters that frankly they are clueless about. Now I did not see anyone make any machine gun gestures. Did any other matchgoer see anything like this? If so please do say here.

29th January 2010, 13:13	#95 (permalink)
Sir A1ex First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Where the goals come from. Posts: 20,607	This thread confuses me a lot... Starts with the opinion "People doing machine gun gestures are a disgrace"... ...Ralphie and others conribute the opininon that CES & the police should be on to these people and chuck them out.... ...Ralphie and others get slagged off because appraently this is justifying the machine gun gesturing idiots? If I said that I think the police should do mroe to stop terrorists, does this mean I support terrorism? What is this place, Bizarro World?

29th January 2010, 13:18	#96 (permalink)
Moyespopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 54,131	As far as both incidents go (coins and gestures) - Its not representative of the majority of our support. - Its a shitty, stupid thing for someone to do. - No one really wants to see it happening. - Its a pain in the hole that the actions of a few idiots get so much attention. - The stewards & police should stop it when it happens. I think we'd all agree with those points wouldn't we? I dont really see what there is to argue about apart from people getting a bit over-sensitive.

29th January 2010, 13:34	#102 (permalink)
Dr. Dwayne Dirty Canadian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Watching comet's lonesome trails Posts: 50,886	pretty ignorant if anyone made machine gun gestures should you ask me, regardless of what happened to the Togolese team.

29th January 2010, 14:05	#108 (permalink)
niMic may peace and blessings of God be upon me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: And I'm all out of bubblegum. Posts: 13,337	I genuinely can't believe we have people here actually defending it. Perhaps not agreeing with it, but almost justifying it. Nope, scratch that, I can believe it. This is the Caf.

29th January 2010, 14:15	#112 (permalink)
Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing Posts: 34,260	Atmosphere is what makes football supporters go to matches. Matches like that on wednesday has a drug like effect. Football matches are those rare events in life where we can let go to some extent. I think the desire on some peoples part to condition fans and become more gentile will backfire. More than money I reckon lack of atmosphere at grounds is driving people away. Just imagine the game on wednesday was played out with merely hand claps at any piece of good play, for any side, and perhaps have the same unified chant such as ‘kick the ball, lets win together, yay! both the supporters and the players would soon lose passion for the game in no time. The irony is unsavoury chants is helping football by creating rivalries. As long as it's not racist, or physical it's no big deal.

29th January 2010, 14:16	#114 (permalink)
Utd heap First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 12,848	What a bizarre thread. Only on the Caf eh, and that's not a dig, 'cos i contributed!

29th January 2010, 14:27	#118 (permalink)
Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing Posts: 34,260	Can someone tell me how the stewards or the police can stop such gestures however idiotic? Are they even illegal?

29th January 2010, 14:32	#119 (permalink)
Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing Posts: 34,260	I'd like to know how other supporters feel on this question. I don't now feel anything when opposing fans make aeroplane gestures or sing Munich songs. Is there something wrong with me?

29th January 2010, 14:37	#120 (permalink)
AgainstAllOdds Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2,802	It's a matter of personal opinion in the end Sultan. I'm disgusted by anyone that mocks the dead, or wishes injury/death to anyone.