Manucho watch

Lizard King · 20th April 2008, 12:58

How can he do well if he's not playing ffs!

Chris H · 20th April 2008, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

The fact is that if he can't do well in Greece, he won't do well at United. That is a weak league compared to the pl, and if he can't even get his game there..... I'm not reserving much hope to be honest. I want a world class striker in, not someone on the cheap from africa.

By the same logic, if Rossi couldn't get a game at Newcastle, he must be complete rubbish. Yet this year he's scoring right and left for Villareal, who if they win today will pass Barcelona and move into second place in La Liga.

When you loan a player out, you have no control over how much he plays. This could very easily be a case of the club simply putting Manucho in the wrong situation.

Chris H · 20th April 2008, 20:25

Final score 3-1 for Panathinaikos, the margin of victory being 2 own goals from Apollon Kalamarias midfielder Aristidis Galanopoulos. Manucho came on as a sub in the 68th minute, no idea if he was involved in forcing the second og 4 minutes after coming on.

Panathinaikos coach Jose Peseiro is expected to get the sack for failing to win the title. Certainly he deserves it for failing to play Manucho enough.

Any word on Manucho's performance ByronSteve?

Tibs · 20th April 2008, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris H

Panathinaikos coach Jose Peseiro is expected to get the sack for failing to win the title. Certainly he deserves it for failing to play Manucho enough.
Any word on Manucho's performance ByronSteve?

Very true

Coca Cola · 21st April 2008, 00:46

We´ll he´s played in 2 games in a row now. Good sign I guess.

I don´t know about others but I haven´t lost faith in him yet.

anything about now · 21st April 2008, 03:56

Why would one lose faith in him just because he hasn't set the Greek league alight. Dong scored a bucketload at Antwerp, yet couldn't buy himself a goal in our reserves.

I'm very confident of Manucho's style and physical traits, I think he can succeed in the Prem. If worse comes to worse he may need another season or two to adjust, but as long as he has the right attitude, I think he just might become our Kenwyne Jones. Or Heskey

Name Changed · 21st April 2008, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizard King

How can he do well if he's not playing ffs!

If he can't get a game in Greece week in week out, then he is obviously muck, because if he was any way half decent he would be playing.

I just don't see why people are putting so much hope into a player who only played well in the ANC, but sure that isn't exactly a world class competition.

devilish · 21st April 2008, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

If he can't get a game in Greece week in week out, then he is obviously muck, because if he was any way half decent he would be playing.

I just don't see why people are putting so much hope into a player who only played well in the ANC, but sure that isn't exactly a world class competition.

I cant understand that either. Manucho is going to be our 4th striker, a role in which in my opinion he has all the skill to cover adequatly.

Name Changed · 21st April 2008, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I cant understand that either. Manucho is going to be our 4th striker, a role in which in my opinion he has all the skill to cover adequatly.

I understand what you're saying. But why do you think Manucho has all the qualities to be our 4th choice striker? Is it just because we haven't got one at the moment?

Brad · 21st April 2008, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

If he can't get a game in Greece week in week out, then he is obviously muck, because if he was any way half decent he would be playing.

I just don't see why people are putting so much hope into a player who only played well in the ANC, but sure that isn't exactly a world class competition.

Why not? That tournament had some of the very best players in the world in attendance. And he played extremely well, when other bigger names had far less effective tournaments

We won't know anything about this lad until he's tested in England. I don't know what his work permit situation is, but the goal surely had to be to loan him out to another Premiership side. Or use him ourselves

brophs · 21st April 2008, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

If he can't get a game in Greece week in week out, then he is obviously muck, because if he was any way half decent he would be playing.

I just don't see why people are putting so much hope into a player who only played well in the ANC, but sure that isn't exactly a world class competition.

Not really that straightforward though is it? A lot of managers would choose not to make a new loan player first choice straight away, particularly if he wasn't fully fit. The manager also has to recognise that starting a player who may be gone in a few months over another player who they own, and whose game they are used to, may be the lesser risk.

Off the top of my head I cannot think of too many players who have gone on loan, and not played, with Rossi being the exception, but I'm sure there have been lots of good players who haven't fitted in while on loan, but who have done well away from the club they were loaned to.

Name Changed · 21st April 2008, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by brophs

Not really that straightforward though is it? A lot of managers would choose not to make a new loan player first choice straight away, particularly if he wasn't fully fit. The manager also has to recognise that starting a player who may be gone in a few months over another player who they own, and whose game they are used to, may be the lesser risk.

Off the top of my head I cannot think of too many players who have gone on loan, and not played, with Rossi being the exception, but I'm sure there have been lots of good players who haven't fitted in while on loan, but who have done well away from the club they were loaned to.

That's fair enough, but if he is a United class player then he should get his game in Greece.

Rossi was an exception because although a very talented player, his lack of size and strength did not suit the Premiership at that time. Maybe when he is older he would suit the pl more.

In relation to Manucho, the way I look at is is that he is 24 now, just 25 I think? He was playing in the Angolan league. He was doing alright for Petro Atletico without setting the league alight. If he was a very good player, how come nobody signed him before now? Nobody at all? Not even a team from one of the stronger countries in Africa such as South Africa or Nigeria? Nobody signed him.

That's why I have reservations about him. Granted he is big and looks athletic. Dirk Kuyt looks athletic also. That does not mean he will be suited to the PL. He has never proven himself. I don't think scoring against shite teams in the African Nations Cup counts as proving himself.

I do hope he does well for United. But due to the fact that he has never proven himself at the age of 24/25 and the fact that he has completely struggled to make any sort of an impact in the Greek league then I don't reserve much hope for him making it.

I'd like to see Welbeck being given a chance as 4th choice striker. He is also big and athletic....

brophs · 21st April 2008, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

That's fair enough, but if he is a United class player then he should get his game in Greece.

Rossi was an exception because although a very talented player, his lack of size and strength did not suit the Premiership at that time. Maybe when he is older he would suit the pl more.

In relation to Manucho, the way I look at is is that he is 24 now, just 25 I think? He was playing in the Angolan league. He was doing alright for Petro Atletico without setting the league alight. If he was a very good player, how come nobody signed him before now? Nobody at all? Not even a team from one of the stronger countries in Africa such as South Africa or Nigeria? Nobody signed him.

That's why I have reservations about him. Granted he is big and looks athletic. Dirk Kuyt looks athletic also. That does not mean he will be suited to the PL. He has never proven himself. I don't think scoring against shite teams in the African Nations Cup counts as proving himself.

I do hope he does well for United. But due to the fact that he has never proven himself at the age of 24/25 and the fact that he has completely struggled to make any sort of an impact in the Greek league then I don't reserve much hope for him making it.

I'd like to see Welbeck being given a chance as 4th choice striker. He is also big and athletic....

Couldn't agree more, I share all of your reservations, but I don't think you can draw conclusions from another manager not rating him. Obviously given his background, and age, it is hard to see him succeeding with us, but he has to be given a chance before we write him off. Players mature at different times, and under different circumstances, so it may be another situation like Drogba, where he only hit his stride in his mid twenties.

SAF and Queiroz are generally good judges of a player, so if they saw something in him, then I'm inclined to believe he might be able to do something for us. If not, at least we'll sell a couple of hundred shirts in Angola.

anything about now · 21st April 2008, 18:26

I remember it was mentioned awhile ago that the Panathanaikos coach is a bit unique and he doesn't like to switch his team around for no good reason, especially if they are doing well already. I think they have one greek striker who's pretty good, and Helder Postiga on loan who is better and more skilled than Manucho. Add to the fact that Manucho was thrown over there in the middle of their season, half-fit, and still trying to gel with his new teammates. I don't think they will just slot him into the first team in the middle of their title challenge.

Welbeck and Campbell will get their chances in the Carling Cup next season, and hopefully a regular bench spot under the new 7 subs rule. If Manucho comes back to us and Fergie feels he is ready to be introduced into the Premiership then why not.

Name Changed · 21st April 2008, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by brophs

Couldn't agree more, I share all of your reservations, but I don't think you can draw conclusions from another manager not rating him. Obviously given his background, and age, it is hard to see him succeeding with us, but he has to be given a chance before we write him off. Players mature at different times, and under different circumstances, so it may be another situation like Drogba, where he only hit his stride in his mid twenties.

SAF and Queiroz are generally good judges of a player, so if they saw something in him, then I'm inclined to believe he might be able to do something for us. If not, at least we'll sell a couple of hundred shirts in Angola.

I hope he does make it by the way. I'd be delighted. Especially if it means the end of Saha at Old Trafford.

IBleedRed · 21st April 2008, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

I hope he does make it by the way. I'd be delighted. Especially if it means the end of Saha at Old Trafford.

thats pretty much inevitable at this point i think

Alex · 21st April 2008, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizard King

How can he do well if he's not playing ffs!

Least he isn't doing bad

Longlivekeano · 22nd April 2008, 05:44

Sometimes, talent slips through the nets of the clubs' scouts. Some example include David Platt who we released but then blossmed into an excellent player only in his late 20s after his stint in Italy with Bari, Sampdoria and Juventus.

Even Lee Sharpe was playing for third or fourth divisoin Torquay before we saw his talent when previously no club had seen enough potential in him.

So, there is hope for Manucho yet. Similarly, Ole came to us as a 22 or 23 year old forward from unknown Molde. Nobody expected his amazing descent into first team football. Clearly, Fergie's signing of Manucho was a bit of a gamble hoping that he do an "Ole" in surprising people with his "late" entry into top class football

devilish · 22nd April 2008, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

I understand what you're saying. But why do you think Manucho has all the qualities to be our 4th choice striker? Is it just because we haven't got one at the moment?

A) He brings a different dimension to our game (he is the tall type target man, good in air etc)

B) He is a natural scorer (both at international and at club level)

C) He is fairly experienced

D) He wouldnt sulk because he is left on the bench

The 4th striker role is a role that very few players would want to cover. Usually that role is taken either by youth/unknown talent or by mercenaries who wouldnt mind ruining their reputation as long as they are being paid. Now I believe that we have enough quality in depth for that particular role (Manucho, Wellbeck and Campbell).

Chris H · 22nd April 2008, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by weso26

I'd like to see Welbeck being given a chance as 4th choice striker. He is also big and athletic....

Welbeck weighs about 130 pounds soaking wet. I rate him a decent prospect too, but he's still a boy.

ByronSteve · 23rd April 2008, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris H

Final score 3-1 for Panathinaikos, the margin of victory being 2 own goals from Apollon Kalamarias midfielder Aristidis Galanopoulos. Manucho came on as a sub in the 68th minute, no idea if he was involved in forcing the second og 4 minutes after coming on.

Panathinaikos coach Jose Peseiro is expected to get the sack for failing to win the title. Certainly he deserves it for failing to play Manucho enough.

Any word on Manucho's performance ByronSteve?

Sorry Chris H for not getting back quicker but been away for a few days.
Manucho did come on as sub but did not do a lot. He had a shot in the last minute from outside the box which was easily saved by keeper.
As everybody has said, he is not fully match fit after a couple of matches and 20 mins here and 20 mins there as substitute.

He has been named as substitute for the first of 6 play-off matches against Aris Salonika away tonight 5pm UK.These play-off matches will result in the top placed team going into next years Champions League.
The play-off schedule is as follows:
Aris Salonika v Panathinaikos 23.4.08. 5pm
Panathinaikos v AEK 30.4.08 5pm
Panionios v Panathinaikos 4.5.08 7pm
Panathinaikos v Panionios 7.5.08 5pm
Panathinaikos v Aris Salonika 11.5.08 5pm
AEK v Panathinaikos 14.5.08 5pm

All kick off times are UK times.

This may give Manucho a few more chances to show his worth. Whether the under pressure manager will play him, is another thing. The manager will be sacked if they are not successful in this 4 team mini league for CL qualification.
I will try to keep you all up to date with Manucho's progress but must warn you, that from this Friday to next Monday, we celebrate Easter and this in Greece is bigger than Christmas. Loads of Lamb, Ouzo, wine, beer and anything else you can get your hands on for a 4 day binge.I am also on 2 weeks holiday from work, so I will celebrate to the limit.
If we get a result, tonight against Barcelona, I might have to start early, take in the Chelsea match, Saturday and finish after the Barca 2nd leg. Oh what a dream, CL finalists, Premiership champions and a huge hangover.It will be well worth it.

Sorry for going on, I will try, honest!!!!!!!

ByronSteve · 23rd April 2008, 19:01

Manucho played the whole game in a 1-1 draw with Aris tonight.
Saying Manucho played is overstating the fact as he was hardly in the game throughout. He caused the biggest stir of the night, by running onto a ball that had been played back to Aris by Panathinaikos for fair play and tried to score.He was tackled for a corner but then was surrounded by the whole Aris team and had to be protected by his team mates. The subsequent corner was kicked behind the goal by the Panathinaikos captain on purpose to give the ball back to Aris. That was about the highlight of Manucho's game. On this showing, I think that Welbeck is a far better prospect.

Ekeke · 23rd April 2008, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByronSteve

Manucho played the whole game in a 1-1 draw with Aris tonight.
Saying Manucho played is overstating the fact as he was hardly in the game throughout. He caused the biggest stir of the night, by running onto a ball that had been played back to Aris by Panathinaikos for fair play and tried to score.He was tackled for a corner but then was surrounded by the whole Aris team and had to be protected by his team mates. The subsequent corner was kicked behind the goal by the Panathinaikos captain on purpose to give the ball back to Aris. That was about the highlight of Manucho's game. On this showing, I think that Welbeck is a far better prospect.

Most likely he is, but he provides nothing of the same things Manucho does. If we try and play route 1 football with Wellbeck, we'd be horrible.

ByronSteve · 24th April 2008, 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Most likely he is, but he provides nothing of the same things Manucho does. If we try and play route 1 football with Wellbeck, we'd be horrible.

If we start resorting to the long ball game, that will also be horrible. If that is what we want Manucho for, lets leave him here in Greece.
Anyway, I have not seen anything from him here, to convince me that he will cut it, in the Premiership. Sorry!

Ekeke · 24th April 2008, 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByronSteve

If we start resorting to the long ball game, that will also be horrible. If that is what we want Manucho for, lets leave him here in Greece.
Anyway, I have not seen anything from him here, to convince me that he will cut it, in the Premiership. Sorry!

Fair enough if hes not the right one for it, you're in a much better position to judge.

But in all likelyhood, yes we signed him to be a target man for when we need to flight the ball 40-60 yards towards the heart of the opponents' defence - seeing as Tevez and Rooney are obviously better footballers and their one limitation is neither of them are all that good at providing a base to play off of, as the front man.

ByronSteve · 24th April 2008, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Fair enough if hes not the right one for it, you're in a much better position to judge.

But in all likelyhood, yes we signed him to be a target man for when we need to flight the ball 40-60 yards towards the heart of the opponents' defence - seeing as Tevez and Rooney are obviously better footballers and their one limitation is neither of them are all that good at providing a base to play off of, as the front man.

If we were in a position to take him now, let him train with the team, get some muscle mass on him, I would be a lot more happier. I was very surprised to see how thin he was. Over here, he does get knocked off the ball quite easily and loses 50-50 balls in the air. Admittedly, he does not get very good service, up front and with that, has not really built up any understanding with the team and consequently his confidence has suffered.

He needs to be sent out on loan, to somewhere, that understands his needs. Here at Panathinaikos, these days, we are talking Championship standard. This season, the football has been dire, to say the least.When I say Championship standard, I am talking about the top 4 teams. The rest are probably Div 1.

This is not the place to improve him as a player. If anything, he is now a shadow of the player, we all saw in the ANC last year.

Chris H · 24th April 2008, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByronSteve

He needs to be sent out on loan, to somewhere, that understands his needs. Here at Panathinaikos, these days, we are talking Championship standard. This season, the football has been dire, to say the least.When I say Championship standard, I am talking about the top 4 teams. The rest are probably Div 1.

This is not the place to improve him as a player. If anything, he is now a shadow of the player, we all saw in the ANC last year.

Very disappointing. Hope we are able to get him a better loan move next season, assuming he isn't with the club. Perhaps we'll have a work permit for him by then, but none of us really seems to know exactly what his status is in terms of having the requisite caps.

Very difficult to play under the circumstances you describe. Shame he seem to

20th April 2008, 12:58	#401 (permalink)
Lizard King Join Date: May 2007 Location: Manchester Posts: 13,135	How can he do well if he's not playing ffs!

20th April 2008, 20:25	#403 (permalink)
Chris H Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Self-imposed media blackout. Posts: 2,686	Final score 3-1 for Panathinaikos, the margin of victory being 2 own goals from Apollon Kalamarias midfielder Aristidis Galanopoulos. Manucho came on as a sub in the 68th minute, no idea if he was involved in forcing the second og 4 minutes after coming on. Panathinaikos coach Jose Peseiro is expected to get the sack for failing to win the title. Certainly he deserves it for failing to play Manucho enough. Any word on Manucho's performance ByronSteve?

21st April 2008, 00:46	#405 (permalink)
Coca Cola One balled wonder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Evra´s Pussy. Posts: 3,062	We´ll he´s played in 2 games in a row now. Good sign I guess. I don´t know about others but I haven´t lost faith in him yet.

21st April 2008, 03:56	#406 (permalink)
anything about now MUFC lad living in a matriel world Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The captain, the heart and soul of Chelsea Football Club, with one kick of the ball to give them the trophy.... Ohh he's missed it! Posts: 2,810	Why would one lose faith in him just because he hasn't set the Greek league alight. Dong scored a bucketload at Antwerp, yet couldn't buy himself a goal in our reserves. I'm very confident of Manucho's style and physical traits, I think he can succeed in the Prem. If worse comes to worse he may need another season or two to adjust, but as long as he has the right attitude, I think he just might become our Kenwyne Jones. Or Heskey

21st April 2008, 18:26	#414 (permalink)
anything about now MUFC lad living in a matriel world Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The captain, the heart and soul of Chelsea Football Club, with one kick of the ball to give them the trophy.... Ohh he's missed it! Posts: 2,810	I remember it was mentioned awhile ago that the Panathanaikos coach is a bit unique and he doesn't like to switch his team around for no good reason, especially if they are doing well already. I think they have one greek striker who's pretty good, and Helder Postiga on loan who is better and more skilled than Manucho. Add to the fact that Manucho was thrown over there in the middle of their season, half-fit, and still trying to gel with his new teammates. I don't think they will just slot him into the first team in the middle of their title challenge. Welbeck and Campbell will get their chances in the Carling Cup next season, and hopefully a regular bench spot under the new 7 subs rule. If Manucho comes back to us and Fergie feels he is ready to be introduced into the Premiership then why not.

22nd April 2008, 05:44	#418 (permalink)
Longlivekeano Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,451	Sometimes, talent slips through the nets of the clubs' scouts. Some example include David Platt who we released but then blossmed into an excellent player only in his late 20s after his stint in Italy with Bari, Sampdoria and Juventus. Even Lee Sharpe was playing for third or fourth divisoin Torquay before we saw his talent when previously no club had seen enough potential in him. So, there is hope for Manucho yet. Similarly, Ole came to us as a 22 or 23 year old forward from unknown Molde. Nobody expected his amazing descent into first team football. Clearly, Fergie's signing of Manucho was a bit of a gamble hoping that he do an "Ole" in surprising people with his "late" entry into top class football

23rd April 2008, 19:01	#422 (permalink)
ByronSteve Youth Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ano Melissia,Athens,Greece Posts: 243	Manucho played the whole game in a 1-1 draw with Aris tonight. Saying Manucho played is overstating the fact as he was hardly in the game throughout. He caused the biggest stir of the night, by running onto a ball that had been played back to Aris by Panathinaikos for fair play and tried to score.He was tackled for a corner but then was surrounded by the whole Aris team and had to be protected by his team mates. The subsequent corner was kicked behind the goal by the Panathinaikos captain on purpose to give the ball back to Aris. That was about the highlight of Manucho's game. On this showing, I think that Welbeck is a far better prospect.