MUST/FSF Press Release on ticketing of United away matches

ralphie88

No festive season cheer for Manchester United away fans

- West Ham reduce FA Cup allocation and won't say why.

- Wigan take away more than 1,000 tickets in away end to sell as corporate packages.

- Thomas Cook sell off Madrid tickets first-come first-served over the heads of loyal fans who travelled to group stages.

- Communication with fans reaches an all time low over these decisions.

- MUST, along with the editor of Redsaway.com, call for councils, safety advisory groups and clubs to have to consult fan groups on key decisions.

Manchester United fans have been incensed by a number of recent decisions affecting allocations and pricing at away games around the festive period.

First, the allocation for the FA Cup match on January 5th at West Ham should be set at around 5,300, the same as it was for the Carling Cup game in the same stadium a few seasons ago. While West Ham, Newham Council or Manchester United have not formally announced what the allocation is, we believe it to be under 4,500. No reason has been given by any party for the reduction and no liaison with fan groups was sought by any party in advance of the decision being made. Minutes from the local safety group will not appear online, and amazingly a request under The Freedom of Information Act to tell us the allocation does not need to be answered until weeks after the match is played!

Secondly, Wigan Athletic have decided (not for the first time) to treat Manchester United fans differently to those of all other clubs. Instead of offering the usual away allocation of over 5,000 tickets behind one goal, the club has decided to lower this allocation to below 4,000 and then fill the rest via their own website (rather than via Manchester United) to away fans paying £125 each to have a meal and ticket combined. We believe this to be unjustifiable and believe that any away fan in the stadium, let alone in the away stand without segregation between them and the official visitors section, should be ticketed directly by Manchester United. It is a precedent that is now being copied by other clubs when Manchester United visit, as seen at Bolton and Fulham last season too.

Thirdly, the exciting tie with Real Madrid has caused more ticketing issues. The club's official travel partner, Thomas Cook Sport , have already put five plane loads of tickets on offer to be bought by any member or season ticket holder of Manchester United on a first-come first-served basis. These expensive trips do not give priority to fans with loyalty credits from previous games in the Champions League, unlike the club's own ticket ballot which will prioritise fans who made the long trips to support United in the group stage games in Cluj, Braga and Istanbul. Thomas Cook and Manchester United have always refused to share information on how many tickets Thomas Cook are entitled to, sometimes leading to bizarre and unfair policies such as members getting a Champions League final ticket for Wembley in 2011 by buying a package, whilst over 20,000 season ticket holders were not even permitted to apply for a ticket via the club. It is time that Manchester United and Thomas Cook agreed to have a coherent and transparent system of allocating tickets, so that Thomas Cook can still fill up their trips but giving priority first to those who have accrued loyalty credits recognised by the club.

MUST CEO Duncan Drasdo said:
"The theme that remains constant through many away ticketing decisions is the lack of transparency and information given to fans. We are rarely part of the decision making process on away ticketing issues, despite being the people most affected by decisions. More safety groups, councils and football clubs need to change their stance and liaise with supporter groups when discussing safety, allocations and policies. We are calling on the FA and Premier League to help set up a new framework for away ticketing decisions that ensures fans are consulted in the future. Evidence suggests that, when fan groups are consulted, the problems that safety authorities have raised are far more likely to be solved."

FSF caseworker Amanda Jacks said:
"The FAs Crowd Management Good Practice Guide states that there is plenty of evidence to suggest fans behave better when they feel included. Supporter groups all over the country are keen to be included as part of the solution rather than just seen as the problem. Fans are the largest stakeholders in the game and wed like to see more proactive communication between the authorities and fans

iczster

Thanks for the post mate, getting fucking disillusioned with the entire ballot process and farcical ticketing system we've got. Enoughs enough we all need to have a rant at the club to try and change this otherwise it will carry on.

Liam147

It is pretty shocking, and I don't think they're thinking ahead in any way. As ST holders get increasingly disillusioned with having them with the away process/cup games etc. they'll be making way for new ST holders, the problem is, people like myself, are put off from getting an ST when the only benefit is seeing the City/Liverpool games.

Their way of doing business/PR is terrible.

AARRONB06

Our away ticketing is the worst in the league.

Twigginater

It's an absolute nightmare is what it is. Fair play to MUST.

iczster

How can ST holders join forces and fight for what is right? Anybody out there know of contact details so we can organise ourselves?

hp88

Fans forum is your best option, think there's a meeting scheduled for February or March.

As for the problems listed above, TCS can sell tickets to who ever they want but United should have advised them to introduce some sort of loyalty system, those who have been to Braga, Cluj or Galatasaray are guaranteed a ticket when the ballot opens it's the supporters with no credits who will lose out. Seems like West Ham and the authorities have chosen to ignore the supporters which will only make matters worse, I have got no problems with reduced allocation it's the fact they won't tell us the reason behind it. If West Ham inform the supporters before the game then there's a chance we will do our best to make sure it doesn't happen it again.

stubie1234

This is now a sport designed for the Prawn Sandwich eaters. I feel separated from this sport as I've ever been.


corporate wankers!

RK

Good statement I think. Clubs are taking advantage of us in the knowledge that a United match will sell.

penfold52

Wigan would be better off filling the away end with their own fans and letting United fill the rest of the ground.....

iczster

Feeling your pain, wankers indeed. Fat cigar smoking fucks in suits.

ralphie88

To be fair, the West Ham and Wigan decisions are nothing to do with United.

KanieKaned

The point will stands though Ralph our ticketing is probably the worst in the league. I'm always breaking my bollox trying to get tickets for away days at a reasonable price.

I've been trying to get a ticket for the Fulham game for weeks and I'm having no luck. Same applies to spurs.

Phil

It's fun that the banner ad below is showing a Thomas Cook advert for a bed and a match ticket to our games.

Rood

Well obviously away tickets are bloody hard to get hold of due to the huge amount of demand - we usually only get a couple of thousand tickets with probably 30 or 40 thousand applying for them each time so very few get lucky.
Dont really know what anyone expects the club to do about that?

The only change could be to stop giving priority to Execs and say everyone is in the same boat, although I am sure most clubs do the same.
A bit more transparency on how many tickets goto TC would be good as well.

iczster

Why should away tickets goto TC in the first place? We need a fairer and as you say transparent ballot process.

If you are unsuccessful in one then you should have a better chance next time. It feels like the same people are lining their pockets all the time to me. All united fans who pay for ST should get a fair crack of the whip.

Rood

How would that work then? Essentially it can only be done by excluding people who have got lucky in a ballot from future ballots - I dont think that is a very good idea at all

iczster

Cant see whats wrong with that and it isn't beyond the realms of practicality either. It would make for a fairer system and ensure everyone has their fair share of aways for the season. Have you got a better idea?

hp88

I assume you mean the Execs and those in the Loyalty Pot? When your paying £3k upwards for a seat you expect something in return, I am not saying it's right but it's understandable why United give preference to the Execs. As for the LP, they need to open it again and let a few more supporters in, at the same time they should remove those who are abusing their status.

Liam147

City's policy is the best one. Go to certain home game = X points, Apply to certain away game = Y points, Go to certain away game = Z points. It's simple.

Obviously you want to entice the execs in, so they'd still get some sort of preference. Say, up to A% to exec ballot, with B% to ST holders in a ballot, and anything left goes down to other ST holders. I don't know exactly how many execs get/apply for aways, so I couldn't give a proper figure, but ensuring that most (but not all) execs get away tickets, whilst ensuring that ST holders still have a reason to be in the ACS, must be the way to go?

Then again, as City become more successful and their fanbase grows, and they become more attractive to execs, they could go the way we do. It's strange how vocal our away support is, considering the allocation of tickets. But City's model should certainly be looked at.

iczster

I dont know what the answer is mate nor do I fully understand the loyalty pot stuff. I understand that execs should get some incentive but EVERY away game? It just feels wrong to me. I'm just a passionate ST holder like many others but get frozen out from away games through either not knowing the right people or being shafted in the ballot process.

Some good points Liam.

newseasonticket

Randomly make LP members pick up tickets at away ground on day of game with ID, similar to euro away system.

I'm always right

So because you're breaking your bollox trying to get one of 3000 tickets for Fulham or Spurs, that 30,000 people have applied for... it's the worst system in the league.

Supply and demand buddy, and the demand FAR outweighs the supply.

I agree about TC for Euro aways, as someone said earlier, TC is a great option for some people but a loyalty scheme should be introduced there too, just as it is in the manutd ballot.

It would be an absolute disaster to tell fans that they been "ticked" off the list once they have had an away ticket.

I don't think it's a great system at all, and iczster certainly shouldn't support it because it creates a closed group of people that will ALWAYS get tickets. No new ST holder would ever stand a chance of getting an away ticket cause they'd be thousands of people with tonnes more points than them that they could never make up.

You'd basically end up with a group of 3,000 fans that have miles more points than anyone, getting every single away ticket, every single season.

hp88

That's the best way of catching them out, there are some genuine reds in the pot who have been following United for years but I wonder how many of those tickets end up in the hands of touts.

hp88

This is what it boils down to in the end. If you get an allocation of 3,000 tickets then 2,000 will go to ST holders but 800 tickets will go to those in the LP leaving the the normal ST holders with 1,200 tickets. I don't know the exact amount of supporters who apply for each game but last season we had 164,000 applications so it's an average of 8,631 per game.

I'm always right

Works well for Euro aways due to the fact that people aren't gonna fly to Spain, Germany etc just to pick up a ticket to sell. Wouldn't work so well in UK, the touts would just collect them from most stadiums without an issue. It would also be much more costly for the club having to hire a part of an away teams TO and staffing costs.

newseasonticket

But each tout would only be able to collect one ticket due to ID and ST name matching.

I have no issue with the genuine members of LP. However the LP is to reward the loyalty of the ST holder, not so they can sort their mates out with the aways they don't want/can't attend.

iczster

Spot on NST it just needs to be a fairer system all round. I'd be fucking happy to try anything than what we have at the moment. It may work for some but it isn't for me and I suspect for a lot of other ST holders.

Liam147

Well in that sense, yeah, you're right, but what if it only took into account points collected over the last three seasons, like uefa and their coefficients? Or perhaps it reset every three seasons? There'd be ways of making it work I'm sure.

Rood

I dont think the system is so bad - a ballot process gives all ST holders the same chance of getting a ticket and then it just depends if you get lucky or not, seems pretty fair to me.

I would possibly change the rules about Execs (limit the number of tickets that go to them and give them their own ballot) and Loyalty Pot (either scrap it or open it up again).

I actually quite like the idea of making people pick up tickets with IDs at the ground - will cut out a lot of the touting.

iczster

I think we are agreeing Rood. It boils down to preferring chancing your luck in the current system (I must be unlucky as fuck), or changing it to a fairer less lucky system where ST holders can be guaranteed at least 2 aways per season.

I'm always right

Then the first people to get aways in ballots after thr "reset" then have more points than anyone so now get ALL aways. It's not a great system at all.

So many people moan but I've yet to see anyone come up with a better idea.

Re. LP picking up tickets, doubt it can function in reality, so many more Ticket Office man hours and rent of "space" at another teams stadium etc, it's a bit much.

Liam147

Then another alternative would be a percentage dribbling down to those with fewer points. So say, going to a home game (ST or otherwise), gets you 10 points, applying for a home game gets two (unless you go to the game, where you'd still get 10). Going to a domestic away gets you 50 points, applying for a domestic away gets you 10. Euro aways gets 100, applying gets 10.

Then you can have say, 60% going to Execs, 30% going to the top band of points, say, those with over 100, with the remaining 10% going to the next lot of points, say 50.

These are ball park figures from the top of my head, so there'll be faults, but I believe this system could work, and I'm sure it'd be better than the current 'random' ballot.

newseasonticket

There is no way members should be able to apply for aways. Also from a financial point of view being able to apply or aways is pretty much the only selling point of a ST these days.

Liam147

Sorry, scrap the bit about the non STs. I got that from City's, but they don't always sell out aways, so members can still go I think.

I'm always right

Doesn't sound great to me to be honest and it still massively favours the first "lucky" few.

newseasonticket

There will never be a great system due to our demand. Things that work well at other clubs won't at ours for example I know Chelsea members that get all the aways and cup finals they want. Members will never get a chance to even apply at United, bar the Charity Shield.

Our current system isn't that bad, just needs tweaking not rebuilding.

hp88

There are some parts of your suggestion that could be used for the One United ballot but it wouldn't work with our ST holders. The current One United system is bit of joke at the moment as you can have a member who has paid to watch the likes of Cluj and Braga but then get rejected for the Madrid game, they need some sort of points system in place to remove those who only turn up for the big games.

As for away tickets I still think the best option is open the LP again and let a few more in, it's the cheapest and easiest solution for United.

ralphie88

Both Fulham and Spurs are difficult this year due to them cutting our allocations.

As Rood says, the problem United are faced with is that we have around 20,000 ST holders applying for around 2-3,000 tickets.

I've been successful on my ST only a couple of times this season, and only get to so many aways due to knowing a decent network of folk who are also applying.

ISSYNAZAR

I've never understood why it's an 'everyone's equal' thing. I mean obviously, ST Holders come first and have their seats sorted with the compulsory cup ticket scheme, but I've been to all home games bar Cluj, Newcastle in the cup and West Brom, and I'm sure I won't get tickets for Madrid or City because of the volume of applications expected.

I should just buy an ST (it seems stupid that I haven't really), but I'm never 100% on my availability because of the work I do and can't be arsed with trying to 'rent out' my ST when I can't attend nor would I want an empty seat there which could be of use to someone.

But I suppose in the grand scheme of things, if I was on the other side of the spectrum I'd be complaining that I'd have no chance of getting a ticket because everything is based on merit/credits.