Nani has no future with United

Laphroaig

Fuck off.

fergieisold

don't worry! Will be soon, got my shit face paint and scary costume on and it will soon be time to head on my night out!

IhabX7

Oh fuck off.

olesmyhero

I still think he'll come good. Won't reach the heights that Ronaldo did, but he'll turn into a good player.

Pogue Mahone

Seriously?

Even his shooting looks to have gone backwards. Those screamers against Boro and Spurs seem like a lifetime ago.

The improved tracking back I'll give you.

Spoony Youngblood

I meant from Real Madrid. He's still only 25.

Pogue Mahone

He's been perma-crocked for ages now. Makes Saha seem robust.

Good player though.

olesmyhero

Chelsea in the community shield?

R_Kelly

He frustrates me more than anyone else in the team without any shadow of doubt and looking to the future I think Tosic and Obertan will be making him sweat. His decision making is appalling and he should be doing a lot more than he is; having said that I think he had a rough time of it today and was on the receiving end of some very dodgy 'tackling'.

Raees

I don't agree, that's going too far... the fact remains however the team needs Nani, if we are to persist with 4-4-2 this season.. Nani will feature alot this season regardless of whether he frustrates us etc

This year he is an important player, won't score many etc but his dribbling, ability to turn defence into attack aids the team chemistry/balance.

Boss

This is true, the tackle today was outrageous, it's amazing how much kicks he has taken to his back and buttox in his time here

Ekeke

Yes. Because unlike in his first season, he now has a track record of getting goals against even the better opposition. He's now scored against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. That wasnt the case when he first arrived and at that time I wasnt expecting him to get goals against them either.

ThatOldRedMagic

This

Pogue Mahone

Mainly down to a goal-keeping error. Not a bad shot but he scored better goals in his debut season.

Ixion

He looks like hes too desperate to impress or make an impact and it messes with his judgement, he becomes hesitant by overthinking, and the crowd getting on his back really seems to affect him.

Ole'sbodyguard

The goals against Liverpool and Arsenal were in his first season

Plus the goal against Chelsea was in this year's Commiunity Shield

It's a bizarre argument for saying he has progressed with scoring against the top clubs when the goals in the competitive games came in his first season.

Ekeke

Well thats probably why nobody put forward that argument.

I said I'm more confident in him scoring as he now has a record of scoring against all our big domestic rivals. If he can score against all of them he obviously has it in him to score against the lesser sides too.

Raees

Does anyone still think Nani is a vital component in our 4-4-2 this season despite his flaws? I still think we have to have faith in him for this season at least, as we don't have a plethora of options.

Godfather

An average Nani game = 10 threads about how shite Nani was

A shite game (which he had today) = threads about him not making it at United

A good game = see 1

Pogue Mahone

Actually, you did. You brought up those goals in a post about whether or not he's improved from his debut season.

In other words you're talking tosh. Yet again.

Ekeke

No. You arent reading properly.

I said that I am more confident in his goalscoring now that he has a complete record of scoring against our domestic rivals. That doesnt mean that he's improved his shooting or goalscoring, just that now that he has a record of getting on the scoresheet against Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea, I am more confident in him doing just that.

If my argument was that he has improved his shooting or goalscoring, I'd have said so.

Jase

Aye. People have every right to complain, but it seems in Nani's case they do so almost by default after EVERY MATCH. Perhaps this speaks volumes about Nani's performances, but often I will personally find him having had a decent match, only to come on here and read people say he was shocking, that he's a footballing dolt, and obviously the standard remark that his decision-making was poor.

In my eyes we have a player who knows he has to step up and perform more consistently, and therefore tries so hard that he tries too hard. I don't think playing simple is in Nani's nature. But when people constantly use his decision-making against him it's as if they ignore every mistake all our other players commit every match, or other players who rarely try anything "spectacular" to break up a defence, and thus never really fail with anything.

Just some balance for the debate.

soapythecat

Yeah but he was scoring goals and setting them up. Maybe Ronnie was frustrating because he couldn't stay on his feet for more than 2 minutes without diving!

Raoul

Abigail

The guy behind me kept slagging off "Nani" and half the time it was Valencia, it was quite funny.

I still think he is a useful squad player, but has never truly fulfilled his potential.

redspoony

Not many players in the red have frustrated me as much as Nani.

He's got talent, of that there is no doubt, but his "footballing brain" sometimes seems to be that of a player a couple of divisions down. If he could develop a greater appreciation of the game he could be some player.

As it stands now, if we got a decent offer for him I think we'd let him go.

B Cantona

Yet again, I need to point out this is bollocks

Ole'sbodyguard

But he has had that record since his debut season for the most part as the games against Liverpool and Arsenal were in that season. In your response to Pogue you said the following:

"Yes. Because unlike in his first season, he now has a track record of getting goals against even the better opposition. He's now scored against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. That wasnt the case when he first arrived and at that time I wasnt expecting him to get goals against them either. "

The goals against the dippers and Arsenal are not 'unlike' his first season as as he scored them in that season and so were part of his track record then. In terms of big games, the only difference is he has scored in the CS. It is not really much of a change to have more confidence in him scoring now, although I would agree I don't think his shooting has gone backwards. The fact that he is still highly inconsistent and frustrating does not give me any higher confidence in him scoring though.

I think one of the biggest problems in threads on Nani is that certain posters have already nailed their opinions to the mast inflexibly and feature so frequently in Nani threads that they try to fit his week to week performances towards this opinion as much as possible(whether that opinion be positive or negative) and so very little moves forward. Looking at this thread now and the one Domzi created, very little has changed from the posts people were making last season in threads on Park and Nani.

My perspective on Nani has always been that I wanted Nani and Valencia to get the bulk of the games in the first half of the season to give them a shot at nailing down a first team spot. Nani started the season well and was in encouraging form but since Arsenal game(twelve games ago now and he has started 6 of these games and had two sub appearance) he has returned to similar habits and form of last season which is not encouraging.

One of the biggest pro Nani arguments put forward last season, and which was used against Park, was that Nani needed a run of games to come good and improve his consistency and decision-making. This season he has started 10 out of the 17 games United have played and made two sub appearances. That is a good run in the side and Fergie has backed him to try and get the best out of him. Ronaldo has also been sold on so there is an added responsibility has been placed upon him. This two fold support of (a) more regular games and (b) a elevated role in the team is what plenty wanted last year as the impetus to kick him on and improve him.

But I got to be honest I don't see a great deal of improvement from last season and that promising early season start has not been maintained. The same problems in his game seem to still be there(decision-making, consistency, etc), it just we are seeing them alot more frequently due to the run of games he is getting. One of the things I was hoping he might add to our attack and which would certainly counterbalance some of the more frustrating aspects of his game, is that he would provide us with goals against the mid-table to lesser sides but has not materialised as yet which for me is disappointing as he is capable of producing much more than he has.

I want to add that I do think bar Giggs he is our most talented winger but if that talent and potential is not translated into improvement then he is going continue to frustrate and eventually Fergie will lose patience.

Hopefully he can get back to that early season run of form he was showing as it is not as if any of the other wingers bar Giggs have been much better than him.

Lailiani

Good read and some insightful thoughts. Thank you, Ole'sbodyguard.

gambit28

I thought Evra and Nani were superb today, it was very hard for them to find passes or shots when Blackburn filled the box so much. True their was some dodgy decisions by him but when all you've got on in the area is 8 white and blue shirts smothering everything it's hard to judge. The game only opened up once we got the goal, we then swapped Nani for Obertan.

Ekeke

You're not quite getting the point I was hoping to convey though. I wasnt saying "He's now scored goals against some of, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal". I lumped the 3 together because he has now scored against all 3. Full set. Absolute concrete proof that he can score against the big teams in England. Not score against most of our rivals except Chelsea... But all of them.

Because he has now scored against all of them, I have a lot of faith in him getting more goals against any kind of opposition in the future as long as he's playing game after game. Its raised my confidence in his ability to do that and given that he's scored against all of them, not just some or most of them, even Nani's biggest critics should feel that he's got a goal or two in him in big games.

I think I have a bit more faith in Nani than most here, but even I must admit that if he doesnt go back to playing better than he did today, this summer could be his farewell. He's clearly a very talented player and I do believe he can be up there with the Riberys of the world as one of the top wingers, but we're yet to find out if he can achieve it at this club. Sometimes players just dont settle when they come here and so far thats the case with him. Perhaps moving to smaller side and becoming their star player is what he needs to achieve what his talent suggests he can do in his career.

Ole'sbodyguard

I get the point you are trying to make, but the reasoning behind it is not particilarly strong and the fact that you are stretching this over 2 and abit seasons makes it full of flaws. Plus there are other facts that go against the logic of it such as the fact that Nani is enjoying the longest run he has ever had in the side playing against plenty of mid table to lower league teams and for me is not scoring as regularly as he did last season when he was mainly a cup player.

If the clutch of goals against Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea were closer together and followed on from a period when he had not being scoring against such sides rather than spread over such a long period it would be a more reasoned argument and be consistent with improvement in this respect. But your argument is not premised on this. It is a simplistic as he now has scored against all of the big four in his United career so he can score against anyone.

For example, Rooney completed the top four set with his goal against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in 07/08. Did you suddenly have more confidence in his ability to score after that goal than before because he had not scored against all of the big teams in the division. Similarly if JOS scored at SB next week he completes this set. Would it make you any more confident in his goal scoring capacity if this occurred. These are instance closer to your Nani argument.

Name Changed

He was twice as effective in every season. Jesus. How can you say Nani was better than Ronaldo?

Name Changed

I have to agree here, unfortunately. He just isn't progressing. Ten minutes playing well every second or third game just isn't enough.

Number7

I got a slating in the match thread for calling Nani shit at half time.

10 minutes, and several more shit decisions later, Fergie hauls him off.

He's not performing, and he can't argue about lack of chances.

kouroux

If he carries on like that, maybe by next summmer he'll need to look for another club cause it'd mean he's just not good.
I wanted him to explode this year after his promising start but I have to he's been underwhelming

Ekeke

He's a winger for christ sakes. 2 and a bit seasons to score goals against our 3 main rivals is making brilliant time. If he were a striker it would be different, but he's not. I cant think of another United winger who has scored against all 3 teams in his first 2 and a bit seasons at the club, while Chelsea have been one of the top teams in the league.

Ole'sbodyguard

This type of defence shows that the reasoning behind your point is not particilarly strong and the flaws within it. You not actually added anything in furtherance of your initial point that your confidence in Nani's goal scoring ability has risen since his goal against Chelsea. The fact that it could be seen as 'good time' is irrelevant. Basically you are saying that you have more confidence in his ability to score as a player for United because that goal against Chelsea completed the set against the big four. It is as simple as that with no reference to context, or other relevant factors(some of which would actually aid your point on improvement).

I have seen Lee Sharpe do the exact same thing in one season in the space of 7 months by scoring against all of the then big sides who were winning things then(Liverpool, Arsenal and the following season Leeds) in 90/91 aged 19. A season incidentally where he also won the young footballer of he year award and was one of the main reasons United got to two knockout cup compeitions. I also seen Giggs score 7 goals in his first full season, then 12 goals in his second and 17 goals in his third season as a professional footballer when he was for the most part still a teenager. I have seen Ronaldo improve his goal tally year in year bar his final season from his debut season. Andrei was also someone who improved year on year with his goal scoring.

These would have improved my confidence in their ability to score and are far more consistent with improvement than the fact that I could link together scoring against the big sides over a three year period which funnily enough bar Sharpe none of them would have had in their first three seasons. Let us remember your original response to Pogue was made with you isolating your confidence in his goal scoring as an improvement on his debut season(in addition to his improved tracking back which no one is disputing).

When you strip it down to it's component parts, it is not a particilarly convincing argument for how you have more confidence in Nani's ability to score goals, especially as you have omitted the fact that Nani actually scored more in his second season than his first when he played less games because you have been so focused on his goals against the big four and he scored none against such opposition that season. I actually think this is a better argument for improvement in his goal scoring that the point you are making. You not even used it as a supplemental point to your main(and sole) one.

You also not considered the fact that his consistency has not improved despite a longer run in the side since his debut season which is is for me a bigger factor in my confidence on his goal scoring than the fact that Petr Cech did not make save he could well have made from a well struck 25 yarder in the Community Shield.

Now I want to make it clear, I am not down on Nani's goal scoring as I reckon he could make it into double figures this season and continue his year on year improvement in terms of goals. Shooting with either foot is one of his strengths and he has a better long range shot than the other wingers who have played regularly this season. None of that has much to do with the fact that he scored against Chelsea in August though.

Ekeke

So Lee Sharpe is the only other one who managed to score against all of our main rivals sooner than 2 and a bit seasons. Brilliant, thanks for pointing that out. Its pretty quick if only one other winger has done it in a shorter time.

VP

Nani was average today but I still don't see why people want to get rid. How about we keep him in the squad and use him occasionally? If he doesn't develop as expected then too bad but at least we tried, but why is there an urgency to sell him?

SAF gave the likes of O'shea and Fletcher so many chances when they had nowhere near as much potential as Nani. I don't understand why people are so reluctant to give Nani the same amount of time.