Rafael

towcester_red

He isnt mystic meg?

marjen

You're in Torres shoes, you take a touch, look up, and there's one man unmarked completely at the back post, while there's a couple of Chelsea players inside the six yard area with Evans in close proximity.

Where do you land the cross?

gooDevil

Well, have to admire your dedication to your point. Lifeblood of the Caf, digging holes.

I'm always right

Well it certainly means that he isn't AT FAULT, which is my argument here.

Obviously if Rafael had a flux capacitor installed in his DeLorean then yes, given the chance again he'd know exactly where the cross is going and leg it straight out to Mata and prevent the goal.

However, if the same situation arises again, I suspect he'll do exactly the same, I mean, he does his job.

9/10 times the cross doesn't land there, and 9/10 times when it does, the player does not finish it like Mata did. The danger is in the middle, where you expect a stiker in that small circle to score 9.5 times out of 10.

marjen

Look, I'm not getting anywhere with this. As I've said, I don't blame Rafael for the goal(my blame lies with Evra), but I feel he could have done better, as could Rio, as could a midfielder who should have come in helping our defence out when Evra strayed out of position. This happens to be the Rafael thread, hence why I'm arguing about his involvement in the goal.

Anyway, as a defensive unit, there were a lot of judgemental errors in that goal, brilliant as it was, and it cost us. It alls tarted with Evra, but that's not to say anyone else couldn't have done better with it.

I'm always right

Is the left back at fault?

Surely he should've anticipated what Becks was going to do and closed him down?

marjen

As soon as Rafael tucks in, there's only one place the cross goes if the player looks up. It isn't that difficult to cross it at the back post. The cross is obviously very, very good, which makes it more difficult. In fact, if the cross hadn't been as good, then that just means even more time for Rafael to get over to Mata.

It isn't impossible to anticipate that cross, it would mean to leave the six yard box, but in the case of a cut back both Rio and Evans will get inside the six yard box again.

I think most players will get a decent strike in at goal from that cross, which basically leaves it to lady luck as there's not much for De Gea to do from that range unless it's straight at him.

I'm always right

Just incase you didn't get it the first time:

"you're fucking nuts marjen mate".

I'm always right

Surely David James should've anticipated the shot was going there, and as Ronnie starts his run up he should leg it over and catch it?

more to follow....

marjen

I'm sorry for not believing everything is black and white. You have a quite simplistic way of looking at football. "There is only one way to do your job as a full back."

Well, we let in the goal from the full backs left winger, totally unmarked. If I was equally as simplistic, I'd say "Rafa's fault".

I don't, I acknowledge the reason Rafa tucks in, but similarily, I think he could have done better as soon as Torres settles himself. If that had been Evra, I think he would've got a lot of stick for that goal.

marjen

You're just being stupid now, Guybrush.

I ask you - where will Torres put that cross, as soon as he looks up and sees Mata unmarked at the back post? Only one place. Rafael took the wrong gamble in my opinion, you have to make a decision when you're one short in the middle, and I think he took the wrong gamble.

I'm always right

I mean, the right back here... what is he playing at? Surely he should understand how skillful Zidane is and anticipate that Zi Zou is going to take the piss out of him?

marjen

Sigh.. I get it, real mature.

Okay, we did everything correctly for the goal, and there was nothing Rafael could have done differently that would have led to a different outcome.

Black and white.. Football is not chess you know.

I'm always right

Rafael didn't gamble, he did his fucking job.

9/10 a player doesn't meet THAT perfect a cross with THAT perfect a volley.

Sometimes you have to give credit to a sensational cross and a stunning strike.

finneh

The fact remains that if the ball landed at the head of one of the two central players, had Rafael not been there it would have been a certain goal.

If I was Rafael I'd be thinking "If the ball does go over my head, Mata would take at least one touch to control, giving me ample time to cover". With our defence so exposed you can't legislate for someone hitting a volley like that. more than 50% of forwards in my opinion wouldn't have attempted the first time volley in that instance, and half of that would have missed.

He didn't do anything wrong, played the percentages. A one in 10 at best cross met by a 1 in 10 at best volley.

Ash_G

I think blaming Rafael is harsh, as others have said there you have to tuck in when it gets like that, I can't think of a situation like that where I've seen a fall back not tuck in. The thing with Mata is, because of the role he was playing there was no obvious marker for him. He was between the midfield and defence and so it's always difficult to track them. I still think if there is any blame for that goal then it's to evra/young for not closing torres down quick enough and for a midfielder/winger not getting back quick enough to help.

But at the end of the day as Neville said sometimes you just have to say fair play, good goal. It was a great cross and a great finish. If you say Rafael should have been at the back post then if the ball drops in the middle of the box we'd be exposed. More often than not a cross will not drop on the money like that and the most immediate danger is in the middle, and that's what you deal with first.

I'm always right

No mate, I've agreed several times that several players were at fault so no we didn't "do everything correctly for the goal", but Rafael did.

Obviously Rafael could have done something differently, but so could David James in the clip above, or the Deportivo right back.

marjen

Yes, it was a sensational cross and a stunning strike. It still was a stunning strike from a man fairly easy to pick out, and a man totally unmarked.

I think Rafael could have done differently, and perhaps prevented the goal. As could Ferdinand, and the whole thing wouldn't have happened if Evra had done the basics at full back.

Varun_Utd

The reluctance to actually appreciate a very good cross and a very good finish is strange. Cant we accept that it wasnt anybody's mistake but just very goo dplay by the spanish duo? There are times when you cant do anything about a goal. Theoretically, every goal can be stopped. Doesnt work that way though.

I'm always right

So, could David James not also have done something differently and prevented the goal? I mean, it was obvious with all the space there that Ronnie was going to try and smash it over the wall.

Or was he doing his job by protecting his side of the net?

marjen

As I said, he could have positioned himself slightly differently to make Torres's task of picking out a man much more difficult. Even a yard or two nearer to Mata would have meant the cross not being that obvious, and Rafael could still have made it inside if the ball was landed in your circle.

All if's and but's, and a great goal as you said, but I don't agree Rafael couldn't have done anything else. It was a gamble leaving Mata in that much space, as it would've been a gamble to push a yard or two longer up, positioning himself with an opportunity to disrupt Mata as well as the striker. But it would have been the better gamble.

I'm always right

Exactly my point with the posted videos. Looking at every goal the way Marjen does, you wouldn't ever find a goal that couldn't be prevented.

marjen

Hehe, well, that's also true.

There's always something you could have done, theoretically.

In this case, obviously Evra should have prevented Torres from crossing it in the first place, by not getting sucked in.

But reacting to difficult situations and finding yourself outnumbered is part of being a defender too, and it is possible to cut out several options, or at least making the choices bloody difficult for attackers, even then.

It's what Michael Carrick does brilliantly time and time again, by being positioned excellently.

I'm always right

Cheers marjen, you've made my afternoon go much quicker and that's something to always be thankful for.

And I agree with you regarding Carrick, he's one of the best in the game at that.

marjen

I've basically spent the afternoon, which should've gone to work, with arguing a point which is misunderstood and probably wrong, so thank you too.

I guess I'm just argumentative and like to look at things from several sides. And I don't agree with the notion that if you do your job by the textbook, your blameless. Sometimes, a difficult situation requires unorthodox measures.

Ekeke

Fergie said we let the cross come in too easily. Clearly didnt feel Rafael was at fault

amolbhatia100

So that's Fergie, Gary Neville and Guywood. Three people I have complete faith in.

Edmeiste

I read some of your other posts regarding Rafael and you really should give it up. I'm not sure why it's so hard to say there's not much Rafael could do. If you look at the goal again, Valencia is nowhere to be found. If anything, he should have been marking or at least close enough Mata to not let that volley come off.

How exactly could Rafael be better positioned? You're trying to dissect something that doesn't need to be dissected. We're talking about seconds here in real-time. Rafael did what was best in that situation and yet we still conceded. Despite that, you're still saying he didn't do enough for their goal?

You're the same guy that defends Evans to the hilt but then you feel it's necessary to criticize one of our other defenders for something they couldn't do much about? Are you serious marjen?

FFS, just let it go. You're fighting a losing battle

marjen

Read my last post. Rafael could've been better positioned by being two or three yards closer to the touchline.

I'm sure Valencia and Ferdinand could've been better positioned as well.

It's no big deal, is it?

I'm always right

Ivor Ballokov

Another very, very good performance today. Have to love him beating Andy '35 million' Carroll in the air a few times too

JayWalker

That was the moment of the game. Rafael beating Carroll to a header or two.

olesmyhero

He played very well. Wasn't he going crazy near the end when Suarez had that header? Would make a funny gif.

atomic keane

Had a great game, im still not sure if he should be in the MOM instead of Carrick in the 3rd.

Fiskey

Dominating Carroll in the air, absolutely brilliant!

kouroux

Just like they say, size doesn't matter

evra

He's got a terrific leap.

MST3K

looking great and linking with Valencia well. Lasted the whole game too!

adexkola

Who says attacking fullbacks can't defend? Thank goodness his defense is top class.

Raoul

One of Rafa's best games yet imo. He's linking up well with Tony V.