Rooney or Van Persie

Feed Me

Last season he scored 22 in 33, season before that he scored 10 in 20, season before that 20 in 44.

In same three seasons, Wayne has 16 in 40, 34 in 44 and 20 in 49.

RvP = 0.54 goals per game. Rooney = 0.53 goals per game

More proof that there's fuck all between them.

JazzG

Like I posted earlier he has done it over two seasons now, last season despite only playing like half the season scored 18 goals and the top scorers managed 20. This season again his goal scoring has been exceptional and apart from Man City & Newcastle has scored 2 goals or more against every team in the top 7 showing he isn't just rolling over poor sides.

Feed Me

In terms of last season though, it's all ifs and buts Jazz. He only did it for half a year (granted, through no fault of his own). This season, fair play, he's been exceptional. Is one season enough to elevate you to a Henry, Shearer, van Nistelrooy level? I don't think so.

Raven Blade

Very interesting stats. I'll also agree that Van Persie edges Rooney as a better striker. His technique is up there with the best and his finishing in the last year is a testament to his quality. Purely as a better all round player it's gotta be Rooney every time though. He can run a game for you, dictate play and put in the workrate all over the pitch.

Van Persie's current form is elevating him just below the level set by Ronaldo in the Premier League. Can he sustain it though?

puNANI

There's not much between them in terms of goal scoring but Rooney is an overall better player. What you have to remember is that Van Persie is the focal point of Arsenal's attack while Rooney drops deep sometimes playing as a third midfielder. That definitely effects Rooney's goal scoring. Rooney has a better passing range, and is more versatile. Rooney by a tiny bit.

Ferguson

When Rooney scored thirty goals for us and won footballer of the year in 2009-10 it came in a season of pretty unattractive football by our standards and failure to win anything except the Carling Cup.

The entire team was built around getting the ball to Rooney in scoring positions, and United looked one-dimensional as a result.

Now United can get twenty goals from Rooney as a support striker, twenty from players like Hernandez or Welbeck or Berbatov, and goals from the wings. The attack is multi-dimensional and teams don't know how to handle it.

Arsenal are one-dimensional this season. Their tactics and team are built around Van Persie, and his statistics are better as a result. But Arsenal as a team are not as good as they have been in the past when they had more options in the team.

When United built the team around Rooney and Rooney alone, then Rooney was being called the third or fourth best player in Europe by many. Now Rooney looks worse on paper, but his tackling, physical power and sublime crossfield passes in the midfield, his movement and creativity make United a much more entertaining side to watch and much more successful team.

Van Persie is blossoming into the role Arsenal require of him after the departures of Fabregas and Nasri and Bendtner and the decline of Arshavin. But for me there are a lot more players available to play as a striker and score goals around Europe than there are players capable of excelling in the creative Number 10 role. You can find more Huntelaar's than you can find Sneijder's.

We're comparing two Number 10's, and in my opinion Rooney is the one truly playing the position this season whereas Van Persie has been the tip of the spear more often this season.

It's like when we played Cristiano up top as a striker and had a more defensive outlook with less creativity in our side. Cristiano could score goals up top, but his greatness came when he produced goals as a winger at a pace no other player has been able to do. Play Van Persie in a team where not everything is designed for him and then see how he does.

The real credit should go to Wenger for designing a team that makes the best use of what he has to work with at present.

NextSeason

Better striker - Van Persie
Better player - Rooney

Sometimes I think you should leave comparisons aside and just appreciate the skills of both footballers - same with the Ronaldo/Messi comparison.

gooDevil

Can't we have both?



As much as I adore Welbeck and Chicharito, well, if we can get RVP then we have to do it. Not that I think it's too likely, surely Barca, Real, City and Chelsea will be throwing record contracts at him.

rcoobc

Rooney's conversion into a midfielder looks smarter when its RVP up front. Never going to happen though.

amolbhatia100

No, he didn't.

cesc's_mullet

Not really trying to weighing in myself, but I'd like to see the assist stats of the two.

Van Persie is more effective out wide than Rooney, he was originally a wide-forward. He also used to play further back in the hole up until these last few seasons, I distinctly remember he carried the creative side of our game for weeks, a few times, whilst Fabregas was injured.

To say Rooney is a better player all-round everytime is laughable. The only thing he has (definitely) over Van Persie is workrate.

cesc's_mullet

Also it has to be acknowledged that whilst Van Persie hasn't been able to reach this kind of level before thanks to persistent injuries, Rooney has been somewhat shafted when he's been asked to play various different roles for the side, for whatever reason (injuries, etc.).

And when both players were able to have a decent run of games in the one position, or in Van Persie's case (in particular) was just able to string games together full-stop, they both showed that they're undisputedly world class forwards.

Varun_Utd

Both are equally good players. Not much in it for me.

At the moment, RVP shades it, he's in the form of his life though, will be interesting to see if he can keep it up.

Over the last 5 odd years, Rooney's been the better player.

Feed Me

He was nailed on for 40 goals before his injury and we'd have been a strong bet in the Prem and (less so) the CL. It was also one of his most consistent scoring spells for the national team.

He clearly had a similar season to what RvP has had this time round.

Edit: as Zen's stats below show, Rooney's goals per game ratio in 09/10 actually dropped after his injury when we rushed him back - was never the same that season

Feed Me

In fairness Rooney has maintained a scoring and creative consistency even when played wide. His stats bear this out. So I reckon it's unfair to assert that RvP is more effective out wide. Rooney has actually had some very productive spells out on the left when Ronaldo was around.

I think Rooney edges it in the allround stakes because he's able to drop deeper to greater effect. RvP's limit is the hole, where Rooney can also slot effectively into midfield and that's been a big tactical feature for us - supplementing the midfield and giving them extra support.

Overall RvP has hit the form of his life, aged around 27/28. Rooney is currently 26 - I hope he can mature in the same fashion as he enters his peak period.

Zen

09/10 - Before the injury Rooney was 26 in 29 in the Prem or 34 in 40 all comps, with 7 assists, 3 in the Prem. Only 1 goal in the 09/10 season in Internationals though. He had 10(with another 7 assists) in the previous seasons internationals.

11/12 - Van Persie is 25 in 27 in the Prem, and 31 in 35(with 9 assists) altogether. With 4 goals internationally, all of which were in the same game.

VP is obviously marginally better, but he came into the season playing that role from the season before and enough throughout his career, it was a completely new role for Rooney...with the season prior he was playing LW(or anywhere in support mostly) for us and behind Heskey for England

Feed Me

You were saying Amol...?

Good digging Zen. Like I said, Rooney's 09/10 season was similar to RvP's. The advantage the latter has/has had is that he's not succumbed to a terribly timed injury.

finneh

I think the key point will be whether RVP can maintain his current form for the rest of the season and into next. If he keeps his current consistency over a 2 year period (starting Jan 2011) then I'd say RVP is in a league of his own below Messi/Ronaldo.

amolbhatia100

I can keep saying it again and again if you want. There's a story that statistics don't tell. I'm talking about level rather than goals which you constantly bring up to prove your point. I just believe Van Persie's level was higher. He did more on his own relying far lesser on the team. He's scoring a much greater deal through sheer class as opposed to getting on the end of things. For all of Rooney's goals, he is actually better right now IMO. Van Persie right now is better than both of those Rooney's. And he's actually doing it against the tide i.e in a team that has often looked in shambles.

It's a personal opinion. Van Persie's 44 in 43 (or whatever it is) in 2011 is a goalscoring feat Rooney has never matched and the combination of such goalscoring along with consistent individual brilliance is also something he hasn't matched. He (Rooney) is obviously a brilliant player as well. But Van Persie, right now, is simply better. I won't change your mind and we'll have to agree to disagree.

Zen

But there are reasons as to why Rooneys not had that kind of run...injuries, not playing there consistency, being used in a different style(false 9 compared ala Totti rather full on main man up top). You can't just compare scoring records that aren't fair. Comparing 09/10 and 11/12 is fair because they were essentially playing the same roles on a team that just the summer previous lost their key man and others.

Comparing those, RVP is still marginally better on a overall scale, but it's not a very big gap at all

Kevin

Comparing Rooney's 09/10 and van Persie's 11/12 campaigns, where they played similar roles all season, I'd say van Persie's is better: apart from scoring slightly more, he's scoring far more spectacular goals... I remember Rooney to be more of a fox in the box, usually scoring from close range and he had no goals outside the penalty area.

Sure a goal is a goal, but there's a difference whether you score one by great work from your teammates to set you up from close range or when you pull out one from the hat like van Persie did against Tottenham or Liverpool as recent examples. The latter shows you are less dependant on your teammates and can rescue a poor team who might not give you the service... and yes I do believe this Arsenal team is (much) worse than our 09/10 team.

apotheosis

I don't know why people have this obsession with stats as proof of anything. It does not take a genius to simply look at the touch and technical ability of RVP, the way he strikes the ball, the accuracy, his hold up play, the spectacular nature of his goals. It is simply all a class above what Rooney produces imo.

I don't even believe it is a question of form either, Rooney looked like he may have this level of technique and touch when he was a teenager, but i just don't see it now and haven't for a long, long time. His partnership with Saha and the goals he regularly scored that season are a level above anything he has been able to produce since.

Rooney is still a top player, but i once expected him to be a genius for us, a next Cantona, or like Messi for Barca or even RVP for Arsenal. Someone who regularly makes the difference between winning and losing, a player who does things that others simply can't, but i just don't see that anymore im afraid. Aside from that overhead against City, i cannot remember the last time he produced something along those lines. For me that puts him behind the likes of RVP, Messi, Ronaldo etc. They produce these type of moments consistently for their clubs, and that is what seperates the geniuses from the rest.

vuc

This is exactly how I would put it.

kouroux

When I said RVP has easily been better than him, I only meant it for this season and the second half of the last one.
The way he's carried Arsenal in terms of goalscoring and creativity has been a lot more impressive (IMHO) than what Rooney has done during the same period of time for United.

Feed Me

Can't be bothered to trawl through the thread, but somebody definitely said to me that they'd rather have RvP than Rooney in a big game because he's more clinical. Others have said his feats are ultra impressive because he's been scoring wonder goals.

Pity about his proficiency from three yards. Astonishing miss, following a ridiculous (and arrogant) chip.

charlenefan

The refusal to criticise RVP pisses me off tbh, there was an occasion in the first half where it was 2 on 2 and Van Persie played the ball behind Rosicky and not a word was said instead they blamed Rosicky for passing it to him too early. Then there's the miss in the second half.

A lot of games this season I've seen RVP has been pretty poor overall he's just been extremely efficient in front of goal

Snow

He was poor tonight. Horrible miss and penalty aside, he wasn't very good.

TheReligion

Rooney is by far the better all round player.

Feed Me

Was going to bring up the awful square ball to Rosicky. There was so much space and time and he completely ruined the move with a pass behind his teammate.

Considering how some posters have been fawning over him, it's only fair we highlight his balls ups tonight.

Amar__

But he scored a goal from tonight.

Mick1991

Good penalty, but didn't have the greatest night. Just didn't get on the ball enough second half to really influence things.

Amar__

He slowed pretty much their every attack, and missed a great chance.

Sw33t

Rooney > RVP in general all round terms.

And I don't give a fuck who disagrees. You're wrong.

Kevin

Looking at the last few posts, I can only assume this will descend into the disagreeing parties posting everytime Rooney/van Persie cock up or have had a bad game.

1999united2008

all round = Rooney

finisher = Van Persie

amolbhatia100

So we're going to update this everytime one of them has an off day (even when they score)? Lots of updating to be done then.

amolbhatia100

And Rooney doesn't make terrible mistakes on a football pitch? This thread is predictably turning into a weird one sort of upmanship.

thepolice123

Rooney's play outside the box is nearly Xavi/Iniesta-esque IMO, to demand the same of RVP is a tad unfair because the only player I can think of who can combine the qualities of both together is Messi.

Rooney suits our play more given our dire midfield situation. We need him to come deeper to accelerate play if not it will be ponderous as hell. RVP is decent-ish outside the box, he will get by with his good technique, but he lacks the playmaking qualities of Rooney.

Feed Me

Not so much.

I think it was more a timing thing, given that the debate in this thread heated up on the eve of the game.

Like I've maintained all along, RvP is in terrific form. I've only ever railed against the assertion that he's reached a Ronaldo/Henry type level.

Of course Rooney had bad moments in games too. But Amol, you basically implied that RvP had gone to a completely new level in the PL. Given the standards that you imposed, yesterday was a poor showing from the player.

We've had a lot of talk about RvP carrying teammates, but yesterday he was poor at two vital moments - they should have really gone through.

CR#7

One GREAT season for RVP once injury bug comes BYE BYE