So, Tom Cleverley then

cw1984

What will become of our Tom this season?

If Milner goes to City then Cleverley to Villa would be a good deal. Similarly to Milner he can play anywhere across the midfield and at Villa he'd have a chance of getting a few games in the middle.

I know he's been linked with Newcastle quite a bit but I don't really want him to join the Geordie circus if i'm honest.

Bolton could be a decent move for him both geographically and in terms of getting games. Plus Coyle plays the right kind of football.

Not sure what other options there are to be honest. I can't see him staying with us for the season. It would do him good to get some games under his belt at another club anyway.

Uncle Junior

BezsMaracas

Can't we send them Park instead?

Mickey

Cant we send them red wine and leave it at that?

BAMSOLA

I can see him staying unless there is last minute action on the transfer front as I beleive that even with the world cup players returning and Anderson we are still short of ACM which is where I feel we may employ him on most occasions this season. The numbers in the squad and the frequent use of 4-5-1 should mean that he gets enough games to develop.

cw1984

I'm basing this on Fergie saying he's hoping to loan him to a Premier League side.

BAMSOLA

When did he say that?(honest question)

Ramshock

I honestly dont know why Fergie wants to loan him out..unless its for the 25 rule. I think he is ready to contribute this year!

cw1984

A week or so ago. I can't remember exactly when to be honest. May have been in a press conference or something.

EDIT:

Here you go

Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley will get Premier League loan moves | Mail Online

cw1984

Nah it won't be that. Cleverley won't need to be registered in that.

EdWeatherall

To give them as much football as possible, as realistically Cleverley and Welbeck wouldn't see as much game time as they need at this stage of their development

I would hope that there would be some kind of recall clause to allow us to bring players back

BAMSOLA

Thanks for that.

I think the key word is considering which I would take to mean should we make more signings. I can't really see us loaning either him or Danny and keeping the squad as it is. We do need 1 or 2 more CM's in IMO( i know danny isn't a CM but he can switch to the wing whilst we bring Giggs for example inside).

Cutch

Fergie seemed to change his tune slightly following the MLS game when he said, 'we'll have to think about whether to send him out on loan'. Sounded like he was having second thoughts about sending him out.

He's had a great pre season getting better and better by the game. I think it would be a real shame if we sent him out because I think he could have a big part to play for us whether it be in attacking midfield or on the wing. Certainly would have more to offer than the likes of Gibson for example.

fredthered

I am always a bit perplexed about sending players on loan.

Part of the success of being at United is that you receive the best training facilities, under the guidance of the best manager, with the best coachesm and allows them to develop playing alongside some of the greats in the game.

Now unless I am being totally thick here, going to other clubs deprives players of that. Would you send a racehorse to an inferior trainer if you think he's got that much potential. Of course you wouldnt. You'd make sure he had the best facilities to bring out that natural talent.


Surely that should apply to players like Cleverley. Keep them at United, give them the best training and facilities, let them learn from the best in the game, and bring them on that way. We've seen too many young players sent out on loan, and they never come back and they fade into obscurity.

Just doesnt make sense. Give them the training and the coaching and they'll make the grade.

x42bn6

If Cleverley had stayed here, he wouldn't be in the first-team picture. An impressive loan at Leicester City and an outstanding loan at Watford has brought him this far. He wasn't much to think about prior to the loan at Watford.

There's only so far our facilities can take a young player especially considering the quality of Reserves football. Nowadays first-team football develops a young player much better.

Fergie is doubtless careful to send players on loan to clubs that will take care of his players of course.

Mickey

Theres only so much training a player can do though.

Its how that training translates into matches is what matters. Hence sending players on loan gives a good idea of what the player can do for our club potentially.

TuTuHimm

While I agree with you, if, and thats a big if, they get a regular spot at a premier league team, there is nothing as valuable as getting matches behind your belt. Thats something that they might not get here at United.

R_Kelly

I'm torn with this lad. I really want him to stay because I think he could be breaking in this season if he did, but on the other hand he needs to be playing more first team football than we can give him. A loan to a lower down prem team would be ideal for him if he was to get to play every week, but from a purely selfish perspective, I'd like to see him get time with our first teamers.

Devil may care

I've only seen two full games of Cleverly and I think he looks ready to contribute, the question is will he get the chance to if he stays? next season when Giggs and Scholes are most likely gone he'll have greater opportunities and so spending this season playing regular Prem football for a club like Bolton may be wise, I won't be unhappy if Fergie chooses to keep him here and let him compete for a place though.

EvilChuck

If we were do loan him out, I'd prefer he went to a team that plays through the midfield. Playing for certain teams that bypass the midfield would be of no benefit to him. So as long as the right team with the right play style for his development needs came in, I could see no reason why a season on loan could do him any harm at all

Baby Faced Assassin

I would love to see him try and get into the United but have a feeling Fergie will send him out. Hopefully he gets a decent PL season this year.

Bear Attack

Well, if they are Premier League teams and hopefully even a mid table side, it would be very beneficial for them. Cleverley and Welbeck (especially Welbeck) are at the point of their careers where they have already established themselves and all they need is a good run of games so they can gain experience under their belt.

BAMSOLA

If we decide that loaning is the correct option then I definately think that we should only commit to loaning them till Jan. I think both are not as far off competing for the first team as some think they are and may impress so much that we are all demanding a recall in Jan.

MST3K

the thing is fred, you cannot imitate real, live game experiences. The best training may work for most but I always believe playing the game, experience all the subtle nuances and also how your body feels playing week in and week out sculpt you as a player.

If its a like for like swap, training at United say for training at Burnley then yes it does no good. However if he goes to Bolton and plays week in week out, gets used to playing against players who arent his mate and are actually out to stop him for succeeding, imo its invaluable. Some players actually will only progress that way.

Wan

6 months on loan for the first half of the season and then we take it from there. Getting regular EPL games would be good for him. He has time on his side and we have plenty of options currently out wide.

amir51

Not sure if that makes sense. Would he get many games during business time of the season for us?

I rather we keep him till Jan, give him Carling, FA Cup and dead-rubber CL games. And then loan him out to some relegation contender so they would give him games (seeing as their current players wouldn't be hacking it).

Shimo

Having experience to play at the business end of the season can only be a benefit.

Also, we don't know what happens between now and January injuries wise. Usually the second half of the season is when you need options, there are more tired legs.

Besides the point of a loan is not to play odd game here and there and dead rubber games that don't mean much. It's to play week in and week out with a lot on the line and get that experience under their belts.

cw1984

Sending him on loan for the first half of the season then having him here for the 2nd half doesn't make much sense. There are more games in the first half (Carling Cup, Dead Rubbers in the CL, FA cup early stages) that he's more likely to get games in.

Sarni

Besides he's not going to get much playing time in the second half of season when we need points and he'd be a risk.

Pogue Mahone

A point is a point, whether it's dropped in September or April.

Brophs

Aye but the risk of playing the kids increases the fewer games you have left to make up for the loss of points.

Classy Cannon

I want him & Welbeck to stay. They say 'out of sight, out of mind' & I think that's true to an extent when a player goes on loan. If they stay & perform in training SAF's going to be tempted to give them a run-out.

If they go out on loan & do well someone might come in with a decent bid & tempt us to sell...Pique, Rossi stylee. I deffo don't want that for these 2.

SharkyMcShark

Of course receiving decent bids wasn't the reason that we sold either of those players.

Striker10

I think we should keep him. It's simple. I think he would score goals in the premiership. I think he's a confident kid. He's had to loan spells. Gibson wasn't loaned to a premiership club. Any game that you get anywhere else, won't be for United. When you play with better players, you become a better player - probably faster being exposed to it longer and where better then United?

People say what if we drop points...what cause of Tom? He's a better talent then Gibson for example. I don't see any signs that he'll harm our play. He's shown good responsibility on the tour tracking back when he can. I don't think we've enough and I don't believe we've enough in midfield to loan Tom out. People wonder about scholes alternative and we have him here. It's some 'praise' but Tom can be creative and he can score goals. We talk about luck all the time or big moments

Tom might not have scored that goal if Obertan never got injured. You then get sir Alex thinking blimey, he showed a lot of quality and composure there...and I don't blame Sir Alex if he's thinking twice if he is but the fact is we're talking about a player or two or whatever surrounded by experience. It's nothing like a situation where last season we had no defenders at one point and we dealt better then most with it. Giving kids opportunites is not even close to as dangerous as some make it out to be - not when you've experience in the mix

We've introduced kids down the years all the time and still challenged. It don't matter if your 18/21 or 24, if you have experience round you and if Sir Alex thinks you're ready, you're ready

Classy Cannon

Of course it was - if nobody bids you've got no-one to sell too. A bid is less likely when they're not in the shop window playing week in/out in the Prem/Championship.

Raees

I think he should stay.. we don't have great talent/depth in midfield in my opinion in a creative sense... Scholes/Giggs I can't see playing week in week out to a high level and then you have Anderson and Gibson, who I think Cleverley would be optimistic at getting games over them through the course of the season.

I think we're going to need a player like him who does things off the cuff and has a knack for goals, and unlike Gibbo actually contributes to the build up play as well.

noodlehair

You're thinking/expecting too much of him. This always seems to happen in pre-season

There's no way he's ready to play regularly for United, or even for a side like Villa. In terms of getting games his best bet would be somewhere like Blackpool. Bolton wasn't a bad shout, actually, but it depends on them being interested.

If he stays at United he'll get very few games, even with our midfield severely lacking. Same goes for Welbeck and I reckon he's the better player/prospect of the two.

Mainoldo

Why he's technically good enough and is at the right age.. You see guys like Pedro at Barca getting a run out don't see why Cleverly can't go to a place like Villa and play week in week out. Yes he will make mistakes and be inconsistant but chilling at a place like Blackpool when you expect him to be playing for United to season after mite be a bit too low for him at this stage of his career. Welbeck is different because he's development requires him getting games i also think he should be playing for a team that likes to keep the ball on the ground.

Striker10

Don't forget Rossi and Pique were different. Rossi was blinding - but we'd just signed Tevez and Pique was behind a fitter rio and vidic, in his final year with Barca calling.

Players like Cleverly don't and won't give a shit if clubs make a bid. He wants to make it at United. I was watching oles goals on mutv and thinking - we accepted 5.5m for him from spurs so if a players loyal he's loyal whereever he's from and how lucky were we

But I think players like Cleverly, James, Drinkwater etc dream of United and making it here

SharkyMcShark

They both wanted to move (Pique was homesick and his hometown club put in a bid, and Rossi wanted to be guaranteed first team football) - it wasn't a case of getting a good bid and then moving them on.