So, Tom Cleverley then

TheMancRedDevil · 1st August 2010, 23:21

Cleverley was linked with a loan to Newcastle ages ago. The article merely makes a reference to that link.

It doesn't mean one way or another that he is going there on loan. A lot has happened since then.

Joga_Bonito · 2nd August 2010, 01:54

This is obviously speculative, but unless Cleverley develops a fairly similar skill-set to that of, say, David Beckham, I genuinely can't see how he can develop and remain as a wide player, particularly as the skill-set that he currently has is ideally suited to the central areas of the field.

I'm open to ideas in this regard, and it is certainly possible that he may further develop many of skills that allowed Beckham to remain as a wide player throughout his career, but Beckham needed to be one of the best exponents in world football at the things that he did well to remain in that position. Had he not been quite so good at those things, he would obviously not have been such a potent weapon from those areas of the pitch, and that may have persuaded at least one of his managers that he was better suited being used slightly inside.

It also depends on what the manager wants from the players in that position. Players that are employed in the attacking positions largely dictate what kind of team you are going to be, and also dictate, to some extent, at least, the kinds of players that are needed in the other forward positions. If you have wide players, for example, whose main asset is the early ball in to the box, that will largely dictate what kind of strikers you can also employ. It's not an exact science by any means, and most strikers are almost by necessity able to score goals in a variety of ways, but it's certainly true that not all players are suited to playing alongside each other, and most managers have a philosophy which, along with the demands of the game at a particular time, somewhat dictates the kinds of teams that can be built.

I don't believe that we will truly know what kind of player Tom Cleverley is likely to become for at least another two or three years, firstly, because that's when he will begin to mature as a player, and secondly, because he is likely to be used in the wide positions in the early part of his career, anyway, even if he does eventually become a central player. As we saw with Darren Fletcher, it's sometimes easier to give young players time on the field in areas where mistakes are less likely to have a major impact on the team. Center-backs are often played at full-back in the early part of their career for precisely this reason.

As to whether Cleverley should be sent out on loan, I would say that he should, as long as the manager can be fairly certain that he will be a regular starter, which is not always easy to ascertain. The most that you could probably guarantee if he remained at United is perhaps starts in the Carling Cup and the early rounds of the FA Cup, and the odd appearance from the bench in games that are all but over in the Premier League and Champions League group stages. There is obviously scope for much more than that, but it is dependent on a number of factors that are, at this moment, unknowable.

What if the team starts the season poorly and they are struggling to beat any teams by more than one goal? Is that really the right circumstance in which to start a young player? Obviously, if he goes out on loan to a bottom half Premier League side those are more than likely going to be the circumstances that he would find himself in, anyway. But that's to be expected, which is very different to the same thing happening at a club that is supposed to be challenging for the title.

If the observation that, on average, most players don't begin to make a genuine and consistent impact until they reach the age of ~22 is correct, it would be advisable to send him on loan to a Premier League side in the hope that he gets at least 15-20 starts, and at least begins to normalize his game to demands of the Premier League and to iron out some of the mistakes that players of that age inevitably make. The fact that he has a much better chance of appearing against teams in the top half of the Premier league while on loan is also an attractive proposition, because it is in those games that both the player and the staff at United will learn the most.

Striker10 · 2nd August 2010, 09:38

Good post. I don't like the term skill set though. It just sounds american to me. People used to just say skills, then it was mad skills and then skill set. --- People seem resigned to the fact welbeck and diouf are already 'gone' on loan but there's uncertainty about clevelry inspite of reports but I guess a few people have their trousers round their ankles for ozil or someone else. The bizarre people aside, I do agree that keeping him here till jan IF it's not happening is the right idea. It just seems to keep all options open while giving a boy a chance.

SecondFig · 2nd August 2010, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joga_Bonito

As to whether Cleverley should be sent out on loan, I would say that he should, as long as the manager can be fairly certain that he will be a regular starter, which is not always easy to ascertain. The most that you could probably guarantee if he remained at United is perhaps starts in the Carling Cup and the early rounds of the FA Cup, and the odd appearance from the bench in games that are all but over in the Premier League and Champions League group stages. There is obviously scope for much more than that, but it is dependent on a number of factors that are, at this moment, unknowable.

What if the team starts the season poorly and they are struggling to beat any teams by more than one goal? Is that really the right circumstance in which to start a young player? Obviously, if he goes out on loan to a bottom half Premier League side those are more than likely going to be the circumstances that he would find himself in, anyway. But that's to be expected, which is very different to the same thing happening at a club that is supposed to be challenging for the title.

If the observation that, on average, most players don't begin to make a genuine and consistent impact until they reach the age of ~22 is correct, it would be advisable to send him on loan to a Premier League side in the hope that he gets at least 15-20 starts, and at least begins to normalize his game to demands of the Premier League and to iron out some of the mistakes that players of that age inevitably make. The fact that he has a much better chance of appearing against teams in the top half of the Premier league while on loan is also an attractive proposition, because it is in those games that both the player and the staff at United will learn the most.

Good post, and one I completely agree with. Reports in the NE are still strongly linking him with #NUFC though I still can't see how they can guarantee him regular first team football unless he is played wide

Pogue Mahone · 2nd August 2010, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker10

Good post. I don't like the term skill set though. It just sounds american to me. People used to just say skills, then it was mad skills and then skill set. --- People seem resigned to the fact welbeck and diouf are already 'gone' on loan but there's uncertainty about clevelry inspite of reports but I guess a few people have their trousers round their ankles for ozil or someone else. The bizarre people aside, I do agree that keeping him here till jan IF it's not happening is the right idea.It just seems to keep all options open while giving a boy a chance.

Erm... He just made a very good case for why Cleverley should NOT stay at United.

Striker10 · 2nd August 2010, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Erm... He just made a very good case for why Cleverley should NOT stay at United.

I was agreeing with datura (an earlier post which I remembered but didn't bother quoting as i kinda repeated the point myself). I was too lazy to quote..--- I acknowledge it was a good post, it seems a caf thing to kiss his ass but while I acknowledge it, it don't mean there's any more truth in it then others opinions. I'm sure it would sway some people but I agree with Datura.

Which makes sence right? At the end of the day, reserve football isn't an option and my preference is for him to get games here. If you have a cut off point of jan, you don't write his season off if he struggles and he still gets a fair bit of experience going out on loan. It would make sence the latter half of the season as the moments here and now and in the final months we need to select out best team if possible

Red17 · 2nd August 2010, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joga_Bonito

This is obviously speculative, but unless Cleverley develops a fairly similar skill-set to that of, say, David Beckham, I genuinely can't see how he can develop and remain as a wide player, particularly as the skill-set that he currently has is ideally suited to the central areas of the field.

Perhaps akin to Park or Schweinstieger. In the latter case, he's moved successfully to CM but I doubt he would've gained game experience or as many minutes on the pitch if he was not played out wide when he started out.

The Taurean · 2nd August 2010, 18:18

Quote:

Toon want Cleverly loan deal
update
Newcastle manager Chris Hughton is keen to land a loan deal for Manchester United's young midfielder Tom Cleverly.
The rising star was among the group of United youngsters who impressed during the Red Devils' recent tour of the United States including scoring a clever goal in a 5-2 demolition of the MLS All-Stars.
The Daily Mail claim Hughton hopes to clinch a deal for Cleverly this week, and is also looking for at least two more additions to his Championship-winning squad.
Newcastle begin the new Barclays Premier League season away to United at Old Trafford, and so far in the offseason have strengthened the squad with Sol Campbell, Dan Gosling and James Perch.

It might be looked-in favourably by Fergie.

BAMSOLA · 2nd August 2010, 18:53

I think with Bolton not getting Whilshere this season we could explore giving him a loan there as a ACM replacement.

cw1984 · 2nd August 2010, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMSOLA

I think with Bolton not getting Whilshere this season we could explore giving him a loan there as a ACM replacement.

I hope so:

------- Davies
Petrov Cleverley Lee

Would be half decent.

Berlinknives · 2nd August 2010, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red17

Perhaps akin to Park or Schweinstieger. In the latter case, he's moved successfully to CM but I doubt he would've gained game experience or as many minutes on the pitch if he was not played out wide when he started out.

I'd say that Park isn't really an AM option for Man United until he plays there in a 2 man central midfield.

Donut · 2nd August 2010, 21:54

The more I think about it the more I want him to go on loan. Playing constantly is what made him last year, so why not do it again this year at a higher level.

Lynk · 2nd August 2010, 21:56

Quote:

Toon want Cleverly loan deal
update
Newcastle manager Chris Hughton is keen to land a loan deal for Manchester United's young midfielder Tom Cleverly.
The rising star was among the group of United youngsters who impressed during the Red Devils' recent tour of the United States including scoring a clever goal in a 5-2 demolition of the MLS All-Stars.
The Daily Mail claim Hughton hopes to clinch a deal for Cleverly this week, and is also looking for at least two more additions to his Championship-winning squad.
Newcastle begin the new Barclays Premier League season away to United at Old Trafford, and so far in the offseason have strengthened the squad with Sol Campbell, Dan Gosling and James Perch.

"Cleverly" done.

TheMancRedDevil · 2nd August 2010, 21:59

Hughton is hoping to get a loan deal clinched for Cleverley but I genuinely feel that it is will only happen if Fergie brings in someone else first and that's why nothing has been confirmed either way.

If Fergie just lets Cleverley goes under any other circumstances, I'll be stunned.

datura · 2nd August 2010, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMancRedDevil

Hughton is hoping to get a loan deal clinched for Cleverley but I genuinely feel that it is will only happen if Fergie brings in someone else first and that's why nothing has been confirmed either way.

If Fergie just lets Cleverley goes under any other circumstances, I'll be stunned.

Why? We have Nani, Valencia, Park, Giggs and Obertan as options on the wing, and Park, Giggs and Gibson for attacking mid (if he sees Cleverley there). It would hardly be a surprise if he did loan him out, especially considering he'd mentioned it recently.

Cutch · 2nd August 2010, 22:07

Gosling, Alan Smith, Nolan, Gutierrez, Guthrie and Joey Barton. Would he get a game? I wouldn't be in favour of this loan move at all.

I really want him to stay. He's had 2 loan moves already and i could see it being unsettling to send him out again. Let him learn from the masters (giggs and Scholes) in what could be their last season.

If he had go to a prem club the one i'd be most in favour of would be Bolton. Close to Manchester, manager keen to give young players a chance, and should be guaranteed regular action.

Cutch · 2nd August 2010, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by datura

Why? We have Nani, Valencia, Park, Giggs and Obertan as options on the wing, and Park, Giggs and Gibson for attacking mid (if he sees Cleverley there). It would hardly be a surprise if he did loan him out, especially considering he'd mentioned it recently.

Not really great options but, are they? Giggs is 36 and can't play every game, Park has pretty much always been regarded as a squad player and Gibson looks a far more inferior player to Cleverley.

Striker10 · 2nd August 2010, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by datura

Why? We have Nani, Valencia, Park, Giggs and Obertan as options on the wing, and Park, Giggs and Gibson for attacking mid (if he sees Cleverley there). It would hardly be a surprise if he did loan him out, especially considering he'd mentioned it recently.

I accept park and giggs though it's unclear how any games he'll get. You need some luck there but Gibson isn't an am

TheMancRedDevil · 2nd August 2010, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by datura

Why? We have Nani, Valencia, Park, Giggs and Obertan as options on the wing, and Park, Giggs and Gibson for attacking mid (if he sees Cleverley there). It would hardly be a surprise if he did loan him out, especially considering he'd mentioned it recently.

OK. So almost everyone sees the need for another attacking midfielder but we're going to let one go who appears to be on the brink of a breakthrough without replacing him?

I just doubt it, is all.

evra · 2nd August 2010, 22:14

Seems like he could be a good impact sub to me, we should only loan him out if we're going to sign another midfielder (which is looking less and less likely every day).

TheMancRedDevil · 2nd August 2010, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by evra

Seems like he could be a good impact sub to me, we should only loan him out if we're going to sign another midfielder (which is looking less and less likely every day).

I seriously wouldn't discount it if Cleverley goes.

datura · 2nd August 2010, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMancRedDevil

OK. So almost everyone sees the need for another attacking midfielder but we're going to let one go who appears to be on the brink of a breakthrough without replacing him?

I just doubt it, is all.

It depends how SAF sees the role, don't forget that it is probably Park's best position as well and Gibson was favoured there towards the end of the season.

datura · 2nd August 2010, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutch

Not really great options but, are they? Giggs is 36 and can't play every game, Park has pretty much always been regarded as a squad player and Gibson looks a far more inferior player to Cleverley.

SAF seems to like Gibson, and Park was one of the standout players in our bigger games last season (where we actually played an AM).

Nate Dogg · 2nd August 2010, 22:58

Cleverley should stay but i would send Darron Gibson on loan........

Feed Me · 3rd August 2010, 10:50

Someone drew a parallel between Cleverley and Park.

Given that Park spends a good chunk of every season on the sidelines, why not keep Cleverley in the squad.

We've seen how injuries can become debilitating on a squad. Last season, at the height of the injury crisis, how good would a jack-of-all-trades player like O'Shea have been?

If he can play across all of the midfield, then surely that's too valuable to send out on loan.

You'd also have to question how much he'll get from it - he's done a couple of stints elsewhere. Why not give him a crack here?

datura · 3rd August 2010, 10:55

Linked to Bolton today since it looks like Arsenal are retaining Wilshere this season.

Pogue Mahone · 3rd August 2010, 10:58

Would much rather he went to Bolton than Newcastle.

Decotron · 3rd August 2010, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by datura

Linked to Bolton today since it looks like Arsenal are retaining Wilshere this season.

Id prefer Bolton over Newcastle. Houghton could be gone by xmas. Coyle is a good young manager who will give him a fair crack at the whip. As I said previously Id prefer to keep him till xmas and then send him on loan.

Feed Me · 3rd August 2010, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Would much rather he went to Bolton than Newcastle.

Yep. Much more the sort of football that we'd want him playing.

I dunno though. For a player who is as adaptable as he is, and given the number of games we play in a season, surely he'll get chances here.

I reckon 15 good games at United would be better for him than 30 at a side like Bolton. There's all the things here that he wouldn't get there - the facilities, the coaching, the club's mentality, the likes of Scholes, Giggs...

Feed Me · 3rd August 2010, 11:01

The other thing about loaning to mid-to-lower PL sides is that often, when the going gets tough, these young players are the first to get the hook, replaced by more experienced players.

Not a big fan personally. When was the last time that a loan was the making of a United player?

SecondFig · 3rd August 2010, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

The other thing about loaning to mid-to-lower PL sides is that often, when the going gets tough, these young players are the first to get the hook, replaced by more experienced players.

Not a big fan personally. When was the last time that a loan was the making of a United player?

Jonny Evans - that season at Sunderland really made a huge difference to him. Cleverley was developed hugely by his season at Watford.

Both were far better players after that loan

Feed Me · 3rd August 2010, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondFig

Jonny Evans - that season at Sunderland really made a huge difference to him. Cleverley was developed hugely by his season at Watford.

Both were far better players after that loan

Ah, Jonny Evans, good call. Forgot all about that one. I'll give you that.

Cleverley's Watford loan hasn't been the making of him yet though. We can only say that if he makes it at United. Otherwise, he'll just be another Richardson, Jones...

SecondFig · 3rd August 2010, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Ah, Jonny Evans, good call. Forgot all about that one. I'll give you that.

Cleverley's Watford loan hasn't been the making of him yet though. We can only say that if he makes it at United. Otherwise, he'll just be another Richardson, Jones...

Depends what you mean by "making of him", obviously he's far from the finished article, but a season ago he wasn't anything like as highly rated by either the fans or the club. That season at Watford surprised a lot of people and has really gotten him to a point where people are now wanting him to be given a chance in the first team. If he'd spend last season in the reserves I'm not sure he'd be in that position

Feed Me · 3rd August 2010, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondFig

Depends what you mean by "making of him", obviously he's far from the finished article, but a season ago he wasn't anything like as highly rated by either the fans or the club. That season at Watford surprised a lot of people and has really gotten him to a point where people are now wanting him to be given a chance in the first team. If he'd spend last season in the reserves I'm not sure he'd be in that position

I see where you're coming from, but I was talking about players whose loan form is so good that it's just impossible for us to leave them out. More often than not, they end up back here no further up the pecking order.

Now contrast that against him possibly staying here, getting some cup games and impressing. All of a sudden he's got some status within our side.

Too often, loan spells are just a way of us getting a bit of value when we flog them.

Pogue Mahone · 3rd August 2010, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Yep. Much more the sort of football that we'd want him playing.

I dunno though. For a player who is as adaptable as he is, and given the number of games we play in a season, surely he'll get chances here.

I reckon 15 good games at United would be better for him than 30 at a side like Bolton. There's all the things here that he wouldn't get there - the facilities, the coaching, the club's mentality, the likes of Scholes, Giggs...

He's highly unlikely to start 15 games for United though.

Would be competing against Giggs, Nani, Valencia and Park on the wings, Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher and (eventually) Anderson in the centre (a position in which he's got almost no experience at playing, at a senior level)

If Wilshere does head back to Arsenal, chances are Cleverley would start three or four times as many games there as he would at United. He'd also be playing without anything like the same pressure and expectation. Which would give him a much better introduction to PL football than he'd get if he stayed put.

Feed Me · 3rd August 2010, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

He's highly unlikely to start 15 games for United though.

Would be competing against Giggs, Nani, Valencia and Park on the wings, Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher and (eventually) Anderson in the centre (a position in which he's got almost no experience at playing, at a senior level)

If Wilshere does head back to Arsenal, chances are Cleverley would start three or four times as many games there as he would at United. He'd also be playing without anything like the same pressure and expectation. Which would give him a much better introduction to PL football than he'd get if he stayed put.

If he got a good amount of playing time at Bolton, then I wouldn't be averse to the idea. Too many times though, we've sent promising players away: Rossi and Campbell are two relatively recent ones that come to mind - on the cusp of the first team - and they never got a look in at their respective loan sides. That will undoubtedly set a young player back. In those circumstances, they're better off here.

Lailiani · 4th August 2010, 01:25

Quote:

FreddieBoswell7

Bolton about to sign Tom Cleverley on year long loan.Newcastle still looking too,but lad wants to stay local

Seems to be almost confirmed.

TheMancRedDevil · 4th August 2010, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

The other thing about loaning to mid-to-lower PL sides is that often, when the going gets tough, these young players are the first to get the hook, replaced by more experienced players.

Not a big fan personally. When was the last time that a loan was the making of a United player?

Part of the problem is that there just haven't been a massive amount of players who have come through the ranks to truly be considered amongst those who have "made it" for years whether loaned out or not.

As already pointed out, Evans is one. Before that? I dunno off-hand. Beckham?

It does seem to be a make-or-break thing and it usually isn't a great sign that they have what it takes to make it at United. I think most people can see something in Cleverley though.

BAMSOLA · 4th August 2010, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lailiani

Seems to be almost confirmed.

Hope so. Very good replacement for Wilshere as I said.

misterredmist · 4th August 2010, 08:55

Bolton will be good for him of he gets similar playing time as Wilshere did last season, and at least OC believes in his teams playing the right way.....

as for the Toon , a few of my pals are disappointed, but not surprised , they feel that Fergie would'nt tolerate another Rossi situation , but they are astounded that Hughton believes there are better midfielders ahead of Cleverly.....in their opinion, Smudge is on the wane, and Barton is a total waste of space.....

RedCafe.net

The Leading Manchester United Forum

Member's Login

So, Tom Cleverley then

Latest Forum Topics

Jump to Forum

Not yet registered?

1st August 2010, 23:21	#161 (permalink)
TheMancRedDevil Banned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: GCHQ Saved The World! Posts: 4,849	Cleverley was linked with a loan to Newcastle ages ago. The article merely makes a reference to that link. It doesn't mean one way or another that he is going there on loan. A lot has happened since then.

2nd August 2010, 01:54	#162 (permalink)
Joga_Bonito Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: He’ll play upon, Your naturalistic intuitions, He’ll lure you in, With the promise of positions that you love...And then you’re caught in the web, No support from the a priori, All aboard Neurath’s ship, It will all be fine. Posts: 1,192	This is obviously speculative, but unless Cleverley develops a fairly similar skill-set to that of, say, David Beckham, I genuinely can't see how he can develop and remain as a wide player, particularly as the skill-set that he currently has is ideally suited to the central areas of the field. I'm open to ideas in this regard, and it is certainly possible that he may further develop many of skills that allowed Beckham to remain as a wide player throughout his career, but Beckham needed to be one of the best exponents in world football at the things that he did well to remain in that position. Had he not been quite so good at those things, he would obviously not have been such a potent weapon from those areas of the pitch, and that may have persuaded at least one of his managers that he was better suited being used slightly inside. It also depends on what the manager wants from the players in that position. Players that are employed in the attacking positions largely dictate what kind of team you are going to be, and also dictate, to some extent, at least, the kinds of players that are needed in the other forward positions. If you have wide players, for example, whose main asset is the early ball in to the box, that will largely dictate what kind of strikers you can also employ. It's not an exact science by any means, and most strikers are almost by necessity able to score goals in a variety of ways, but it's certainly true that not all players are suited to playing alongside each other, and most managers have a philosophy which, along with the demands of the game at a particular time, somewhat dictates the kinds of teams that can be built. I don't believe that we will truly know what kind of player Tom Cleverley is likely to become for at least another two or three years, firstly, because that's when he will begin to mature as a player, and secondly, because he is likely to be used in the wide positions in the early part of his career, anyway, even if he does eventually become a central player. As we saw with Darren Fletcher, it's sometimes easier to give young players time on the field in areas where mistakes are less likely to have a major impact on the team. Center-backs are often played at full-back in the early part of their career for precisely this reason. As to whether Cleverley should be sent out on loan, I would say that he should, as long as the manager can be fairly certain that he will be a regular starter, which is not always easy to ascertain. The most that you could probably guarantee if he remained at United is perhaps starts in the Carling Cup and the early rounds of the FA Cup, and the odd appearance from the bench in games that are all but over in the Premier League and Champions League group stages. There is obviously scope for much more than that, but it is dependent on a number of factors that are, at this moment, unknowable. What if the team starts the season poorly and they are struggling to beat any teams by more than one goal? Is that really the right circumstance in which to start a young player? Obviously, if he goes out on loan to a bottom half Premier League side those are more than likely going to be the circumstances that he would find himself in, anyway. But that's to be expected, which is very different to the same thing happening at a club that is supposed to be challenging for the title. If the observation that, on average, most players don't begin to make a genuine and consistent impact until they reach the age of ~22 is correct, it would be advisable to send him on loan to a Premier League side in the hope that he gets at least 15-20 starts, and at least begins to normalize his game to demands of the Premier League and to iron out some of the mistakes that players of that age inevitably make. The fact that he has a much better chance of appearing against teams in the top half of the Premier league while on loan is also an attractive proposition, because it is in those games that both the player and the staff at United will learn the most.

2nd August 2010, 09:38	#163 (permalink)
Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football club" Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 13,348	Good post. I don't like the term skill set though. It just sounds american to me. People used to just say skills, then it was mad skills and then skill set. --- People seem resigned to the fact welbeck and diouf are already 'gone' on loan but there's uncertainty about clevelry inspite of reports but I guess a few people have their trousers round their ankles for ozil or someone else. The bizarre people aside, I do agree that keeping him here till jan IF it's not happening is the right idea. It just seems to keep all options open while giving a boy a chance.

2nd August 2010, 18:53	#169 (permalink)
BAMSOLA Has issues! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: You're too old fat man, your tts are too big, get the f*k off my porch!! Posts: 7,495	I think with Bolton not getting Whilshere this season we could explore giving him a loan there as a ACM replacement.

2nd August 2010, 21:54	#172 (permalink)
Donut Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,860	The more I think about it the more I want him to go on loan. Playing constantly is what made him last year, so why not do it again this year at a higher level.

2nd August 2010, 21:59	#174 (permalink)
TheMancRedDevil Banned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: GCHQ Saved The World! Posts: 4,849	Hughton is hoping to get a loan deal clinched for Cleverley but I genuinely feel that it is will only happen if Fergie brings in someone else first and that's why nothing has been confirmed either way. If Fergie just lets Cleverley goes under any other circumstances, I'll be stunned.

2nd August 2010, 22:07	#176 (permalink)
Cutch Shit stirrer (Literally) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern Ireland. W3101, Row 29, Seat 174 Posts: 5,498	Gosling, Alan Smith, Nolan, Gutierrez, Guthrie and Joey Barton. Would he get a game? I wouldn't be in favour of this loan move at all. I really want him to stay. He's had 2 loan moves already and i could see it being unsettling to send him out again. Let him learn from the masters (giggs and Scholes) in what could be their last season. If he had go to a prem club the one i'd be most in favour of would be Bolton. Close to Manchester, manager keen to give young players a chance, and should be guaranteed regular action.

2nd August 2010, 22:14	#180 (permalink)
evra First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right. Posts: 8,037	Seems like he could be a good impact sub to me, we should only loan him out if we're going to sign another midfielder (which is looking less and less likely every day).

2nd August 2010, 22:58	#184 (permalink)
Nate Dogg Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 2,705	Cleverley should stay but i would send Darron Gibson on loan........

3rd August 2010, 10:50	#185 (permalink)
Feed Me I'm hungry Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Berbatov has Cantona’s knack of being the man amid a stampede towards the door who stops to notice a side exit that nobody else has seen. Posts: 19,732	Someone drew a parallel between Cleverley and Park. Given that Park spends a good chunk of every season on the sidelines, why not keep Cleverley in the squad. We've seen how injuries can become debilitating on a squad. Last season, at the height of the injury crisis, how good would a jack-of-all-trades player like O'Shea have been? If he can play across all of the midfield, then surely that's too valuable to send out on loan. You'd also have to question how much he'll get from it - he's done a couple of stints elsewhere. Why not give him a crack here?

3rd August 2010, 10:55	#186 (permalink)
datura First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: so it goes Posts: 9,135	Linked to Bolton today since it looks like Arsenal are retaining Wilshere this season.

3rd August 2010, 10:58	#187 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons from a deckchair" Posts: 59,522	Would much rather he went to Bolton than Newcastle.

3rd August 2010, 11:01	#190 (permalink)
Feed Me I'm hungry Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Berbatov has Cantona’s knack of being the man amid a stampede towards the door who stops to notice a side exit that nobody else has seen. Posts: 19,732	The other thing about loaning to mid-to-lower PL sides is that often, when the going gets tough, these young players are the first to get the hook, replaced by more experienced players. Not a big fan personally. When was the last time that a loan was the making of a United player?

4th August 2010, 08:55	#200 (permalink)
misterredmist Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baguley Posts: 1,689	Bolton will be good for him of he gets similar playing time as Wilshere did last season, and at least OC believes in his teams playing the right way..... as for the Toon , a few of my pals are disappointed, but not surprised , they feel that Fergie would'nt tolerate another Rossi situation , but they are astounded that Hughton believes there are better midfielders ahead of Cleverly.....in their opinion, Smudge is on the wane, and Barton is a total waste of space.....