Taking Rafael off

Aint gota Kalou · 22nd January 2012, 18:03

Genius move from Fergie. At first I wondered what he was doing but after Valencia set up the equaliser it made sense. Park occupying Vermalaen meant it was Arshavin who had to track Valencia, and look at what happened for Welbecks goal.

Class.

Silva · 22nd January 2012, 18:05

You're over thinking it, he might have taken Rafael off because he was on a yellow and would probably have been sent off for all we know, don't try to read the great mans mind. Worked out fairly well either way though.

ArmchairCritic · 22nd January 2012, 18:05

Yeah what Silva said.

Lynk · 22nd January 2012, 18:06

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

Aint gota Kalou · 22nd January 2012, 18:06

Didn't see immediately sub on Rafael after Arshavin came on the pitch though? Looked pretty obvious it was in his mind for me.

Cutch · 22nd January 2012, 18:06

Rafael played for an hour, isn't long back from injury and was on a booking. Made sense

R.Nilsson7 · 22nd January 2012, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

Not really, no.

Orton · 22nd January 2012, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

No, he wasn't. He lost the ball in the Arsenal box, a collection of things could have happened or been different in the build up, also think the keeper should have done better.

gza the genius · 22nd January 2012, 18:07

Personally thought it was a terrible sub at the time. Why would we possibly want to take Valencia off the wing. It worked out in the end though, oh well.

soapythecat · 22nd January 2012, 18:08

I thought he picked up a strain, that's why he came off early?? Looked uncomfortable walking off.

Justin · 22nd January 2012, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

I thought Rooney could have played him a better ball where he didn't have to go out of his stride

Lynk · 22nd January 2012, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orton

No, he wasn't. He lost the ball in the Arsenal box, a collection of things could have happened or been different in the build up, also think the keeper should have done better.

Arsenal exploited the space that Rafael left behind.

R_Kelly · 22nd January 2012, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

That's a bit harsh, when a fullback goes on a run like that you expect a team mate to cover for his defensive position.

forevrared · 22nd January 2012, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

Was actually about the only thing Valencia did wrong all day I thought, not picking up Ox when Rafa went forward.

Ferguson · 22nd January 2012, 18:08

I think it was a move made to give more defensive solidity, not because of some plan to have Arshavin track Valencia.

Park is a strong defender, and Rafael may have let positional indiscipline get the better of him when Arsenal scored their goal.

cw1984 · 22nd January 2012, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

Unbelievably harsh.

And wrong.

Wan · 22nd January 2012, 18:09

It's up to the others to cover him at that point.

I'm always right · 22nd January 2012, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

So on that logic, every time our strikers/forwards get tackled in the opposition box and we lose a goal on the counter, it's the strikers fault.

If you didn't see it first time, here it is again

Top · 22nd January 2012, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

Brwned · 22nd January 2012, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orton

No, he wasn't. He lost the ball in the Arsenal box, a collection of things could have happened or been different in the build up, also think the keeper should have done better.

It was a little too cavalier, I think. Part and parcel of our game and Rafael's game though, that's just how he plays and it's what we've been known for under Sir Alex...it comes back and bites you on the arse sometimes.

I thought he got a knock though.

Cutch · 22nd January 2012, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

For attacking? Nah Valencia should have been fillin in for him

ArmchairCritic · 22nd January 2012, 18:10

Rooney should have drawn the defender more on the counter, harsh to blame Rafael on that.

R.Nilsson7 · 22nd January 2012, 18:12

It was a fine goal, would be incredibly harsh to blame anyone for it.

Godfather · 22nd January 2012, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Nick

That's a bit harsh, when a fullback goes on a run like that you expect a team mate to cover for his defensive position.

A bit harsh? It's complete bollox. Not like he lost the ball in a dangerous area or sth. Someone else should have covered. They were lucky as well. A pass through the legs, and Lindegaard almost saved it. Great shot from Persie though.

Richter · 22nd January 2012, 18:15

When your team is leading a big game with 20 mins left rushing forward as a right back like Rafael did can prove costly if things go wrong and in this instance it did, Arsenal countered and scored in the following attack with Rafael MIA in his own half. Not entirely his fault they scored but poor judgement by Rafael.

Aint gota Kalou · 22nd January 2012, 18:16

If it was purely because of Rafaels defensive naiveness and the fact he was on a yellow card why wasn't Park put on straight away after in the injury? It definitely seemed like a reaction to Arshavin playing to me anyways. Whatever his reasoning was it worked great!

R_Kelly · 22nd January 2012, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

A bit harsh? It's complete bollox. Not like he lost the ball in a dangerous area or sth. Someone else should have covered. They were lucky as well. A pass through the legs, and Lindegaard almost saved it. Great shot from Persie though.

I was trying to be polite

Snow · 22nd January 2012, 18:17

Harsh? Stupid to blame it on him. He was almost through on goal. We had Carrick and Giggs neither pressing the midfield or tracking back and I didn't know what Smalling and Evans were doing together in the goal. It wasn't the most dangerous situation. 2 players ffs.

I'm always right · 22nd January 2012, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richter

When your team is leading a big game with 20 mins left rushing forward as a right back like Rafael did can prove costly if things go wrong and in this instance it did, Arsenal countered and scored in the following attack with Rafael MIA in his own half. Not entirely his fault they scored but poor judgement by Rafael.

Nar mate, you can't just stop playing and stop attacking, we did that at the end and if not for Evans, we would've drawn the game.

With 20 to go you play your regular game.

The idea that you stop with 20 to go is bizarre. Oh, and had he not carried on his run, Rooney would've been alone with no support up against 3 Arsenal player, he had no choice but to support him and expect his teammates to cover.

Justin · 22nd January 2012, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richter

When your team is leading a big game with 20 mins left rushing forward as a right back like Rafael did can prove costly if things go wrong and in this instance it did, Arsenal countered and scored in the following attack with Rafael MIA in his own half. Not entirely his fault they scored but poor judgement by Rafael.

It was a great chance to break and score second. There should have been enough cover at the back

The_Midfielder · 22nd January 2012, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richter

When your team is leading a big game with 20 mins left rushing forward as a right back like Rafael did can prove costly if things go wrong and in this instance it did, Arsenal countered and scored in the following attack with Rafael MIA in his own half. Not entirely his fault they scored but poor judgement by Rafael.

Well it was nearly a goal.. Dont know what you are complaining about.. He did exactly what he was supposed to do..
He picked up the ball.. passed to Rooney.. Rooney started runing with the ball.. He ran to give him support..

Varun_Utd · 22nd January 2012, 18:20

Think it was because he was on a Yellow and had played for 60mins personally. worket out very nicely though.

Brwned · 22nd January 2012, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Nar mate, you can't just stop playing and stop attacking, we did that at the end and if not for Evans, we would've drawn the game.

With 20 to go you play your regular game.

The idea that you stop with 20 to go is bizarre. Oh, and had he not carried on his run, Rooney would've been alone with no support up against 3 Arsenal player, he had no choice but to support him and expect his teammates to cover.

Welbeck was out wide left looking to get in behind. He didn't need to do it he just chose to, and that attitude's generally what makes us love him, but it does have its downsides and the simple fact is Oxlade-Chamberlain wouldn't have been free if he didn't leave his position.

LARulz · 22nd January 2012, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

No he wasn't. He went forward to in what was a dangerous counter attack. It was only him, Rooney and Welbeck so he didn't go out of position in the sense Valencia was also up there too. We'd have all been livid if he hadn't continued his run and went into the empty space. It was more Valencia should have covered Rafael in that situation.

gbgary · 22nd January 2012, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmchairCritic

Rooney should have drawn the defender more on the counter, harsh to blame Rafael on that.

rooney? the goal was on smalling, val, and carrick.

I'm always right · 22nd January 2012, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwned

Welbeck was out wide left looking to get in behind. He didn't need to do it he just chose to, and that attitude's generally what makes us love him, but it does have its downsides and the simple fact is Oxlade-Chamberlain wouldn't have been free if he didn't leave his position.

Both SAF and Rooney would've gone absolutely mental had he not supported Rooney there, make no mistake about that.

Anyone who understands the game should realize that Valencia should've simply covered for him, and he was too late doing that.

All 3 United · 22nd January 2012, 18:27

saf brought Park on because 1) rafael was on a yellow 2) to add energy to a midfield, consisting of giggs and scholes. 3) Because he is a tactical genius

Amir · 22nd January 2012, 18:27

With 20 minutes so go I absolutely don't expect a defender to pass up the chance of joining a counter attack, it's way too early for that. With five minutes to go, maybe, but not so early.

I don't fault Rafael for the goal in any way.

Sunny Jim · 22nd January 2012, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynk

Rafael was at fault for the goal.

He really wasn't. His potion should have been filled but ...Valencia. Simples.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 22nd January 2012, 18:28

I though he looked like he had a knock. After Kolscielny's saving tackle on him he was having trouble getting up and down the pitch

22nd January 2012, 18:03	#1 (permalink)
Aint gota Kalou Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,469	Taking Rafael off Genius move from Fergie. At first I wondered what he was doing but after Valencia set up the equaliser it made sense. Park occupying Vermalaen meant it was Arshavin who had to track Valencia, and look at what happened for Welbecks goal. Class.

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22nd January 2012, 18:05	#2 (permalink)
Silva Sticky tip Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Its best if I don't tell you. Posts: 6,669	You're over thinking it, he might have taken Rafael off because he was on a yellow and would probably have been sent off for all we know, don't try to read the great mans mind. Worked out fairly well either way though.

22nd January 2012, 18:05	#3 (permalink)
ArmchairCritic First Team Sub Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: I am not a liberator. Liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves. Posts: 6,390	Yeah what Silva said.

22nd January 2012, 18:06	#4 (permalink)
Lynk First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: "Liverpool couldn't win the league with Torres up front, Gerrard behind and Mascherano and Alonso in midfield. They aren't gonna win it with this shower of shit. " - Peterstorey Posts: 5,977	Rafael was at fault for the goal.

22nd January 2012, 18:06	#5 (permalink)
Aint gota Kalou Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,469	Didn't see immediately sub on Rafael after Arshavin came on the pitch though? Looked pretty obvious it was in his mind for me.

22nd January 2012, 18:06	#6 (permalink)
Cutch Shit stirrer (Literally) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern Ireland. W3101, Row 29, Seat 174 Posts: 5,498	Rafael played for an hour, isn't long back from injury and was on a booking. Made sense

22nd January 2012, 18:07	#9 (permalink)
gza the genius Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: supply and command Posts: 1,103	Personally thought it was a terrible sub at the time. Why would we possibly want to take Valencia off the wing. It worked out in the end though, oh well.

22nd January 2012, 18:08	#10 (permalink)
soapythecat Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: I wanted to call the cat Eric but the lad wanted to call it Soapy....what can I do? Posts: 642	I thought he picked up a strain, that's why he came off early?? Looked uncomfortable walking off.

22nd January 2012, 18:08	#15 (permalink)
Ferguson Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Seoul, South Korea Posts: 2,690	I think it was a move made to give more defensive solidity, not because of some plan to have Arshavin track Valencia. Park is a strong defender, and Rafael may have let positional indiscipline get the better of him when Arsenal scored their goal.

22nd January 2012, 18:09	#17 (permalink)
Wan Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where else? Posts: 1,334	It's up to the others to cover him at that point.

22nd January 2012, 18:10	#22 (permalink)
ArmchairCritic First Team Sub Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: I am not a liberator. Liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves. Posts: 6,390	Rooney should have drawn the defender more on the counter, harsh to blame Rafael on that.

22nd January 2012, 18:12	#23 (permalink)
R.Nilsson7 First Team Regular Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The light behind your eyes Posts: 17,440	It was a fine goal, would be incredibly harsh to blame anyone for it.

22nd January 2012, 18:15	#25 (permalink)
Richter Hairy big footed Swede Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 29,198	When your team is leading a big game with 20 mins left rushing forward as a right back like Rafael did can prove costly if things go wrong and in this instance it did, Arsenal countered and scored in the following attack with Rafael MIA in his own half. Not entirely his fault they scored but poor judgement by Rafael.

22nd January 2012, 18:16	#26 (permalink)
Aint gota Kalou Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,469	If it was purely because of Rafaels defensive naiveness and the fact he was on a yellow card why wasn't Park put on straight away after in the injury? It definitely seemed like a reaction to Arshavin playing to me anyways. Whatever his reasoning was it worked great!

22nd January 2012, 18:17	#28 (permalink)
Snow First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: I like turtles Posts: 12,315	Harsh? Stupid to blame it on him. He was almost through on goal. We had Carrick and Giggs neither pressing the midfield or tracking back and I didn't know what Smalling and Evans were doing together in the goal. It wasn't the most dangerous situation. 2 players ffs.

22nd January 2012, 18:20	#32 (permalink)
Varun_Utd First Team Sub Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Villa Posts: 5,145	Think it was because he was on a Yellow and had played for 60mins personally. worket out very nicely though.

22nd January 2012, 18:27	#37 (permalink)
All 3 United Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 2,748	saf brought Park on because 1) rafael was on a yellow 2) to add energy to a midfield, consisting of giggs and scholes. 3) Because he is a tactical genius

22nd January 2012, 18:27	#38 (permalink)
Amir First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rehovot, Israel Posts: 16,092	With 20 minutes so go I absolutely don't expect a defender to pass up the chance of joining a counter attack, it's way too early for that. With five minutes to go, maybe, but not so early. I don't fault Rafael for the goal in any way.

22nd January 2012, 18:28	#40 (permalink)
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysareus.com Posts: 39,438	I though he looked like he had a knock. After Kolscielny's saving tackle on him he was having trouble getting up and down the pitch