Tevez: I spend a lot of time on bench and I don’t like it!

Brophs

That smilie cracks me up...

Pogue Mahone

First you forget about a goal as recently as last weekend and now this. Did it completely pass you by when Rooney tore his ham-string?

More to the point, are you actually retarded or just giving a good impression of same?

Trigg

Brwned

Why would that matter? It's the team that matters, not the partnerships.

Canuckred64

The independent broke down the minutes played by Tevez, Berbatov and Rooney

Berbatov and Rooney have both started 32 games this season to Tevez's 31 and by any measure Tevez has enjoyed less football – 1,591 minutes of Premier League football for instance, to Berbatov's 2,183 and – more significantly – Tevez has featured in fewer important games. In Champions League football, where Tevez has had 325 minutes of action to Rooney's 708.


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...d-1673931.html

jojojo

http://www.stretfordend.co.uk/seasons/season2009.html

United's stats site.

And while you're there take alook at the team sheets between Jan 17 and Feb 18 - 8 games and Tevez played 7 of them. Including a run of 5 PL games in which he scored once, in our 5-0 at WBA.

Pogue Mahone

I don't think anyone would deny that. And - on the subject of stats - the goals created/scored stats for Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov can explain why this is the case.

The question is, has he played enough football for him to not complain about it to a load of different journalists. Unfortunately not, it seems. Which is in stark contrast to a number of other players in our squad, who are also international footballers but who have played a lot less than Tevez.

reelworld

I don't like this.
If Tevez can't understand that you can't play every (important) game at United, then he doesn't belong here. If he wants to be like that, then he should stay at West Ham.

Laphroaig

It would be interesting to see an actual break down of how many minutes the three of them have played, rather than these numbers where some tournaments are excluded in order to make it look like Tevez has played a lot less than Berbatov.

pillory

I'm tempted to say so what, but I found a quick way to count the goal/assist combos, and you're right about Rooney/Berbatov. Here's the top six:

Ronaldo/Rooney 7
Ronaldo/Berbatov 6
Giggs/Ronaldo 5
Rooney/Tevez 4
Tevez/Berbatov 4
Carrick/Ronaldo 4 (mostly Carrick winning penalties)

(Not including Zenith and CWC.)

Pogue Mahone

That's interesting, when you bear in mind that a few 'tards have tried to claim that Berbatov is cramping Ronaldo's style.

Laphroaig

Well done. Now you ought to compare these stats with the number of matches for the different partnerships.

Brwned

Tevez has played 1,916 minutes of league and Champions League football, Berbatov's played 2,558.

jojojo

I think the Argentina thing is critical for Tevez, it's a sensitive issue and Maradona may have drawn attention to it but he didn't start it. Dependng on team tactics Tevez may be up against Messi and Aguero for the forward positions and he doesn't have an edge over either of them.

Maradona talked proudly about how his 3 little 'uns could win games but he does need a Plan B and on current performances it won't include Tevez. Going back to the stats again - Tevez has 8 goals in 48 games for them and that isn't an impressive return.

Maradona loves him, loves his workrate and his team ethic but when he talked about having watched United beat Chelsea without Tevez he wasn't being critical of SAF's selection policy. In fact he's made the comment that it's hard to get in a team with Ronaldo and Rooney, effectively excusing Tevez from feeling bad about it. He just wants to see tevez fit and happy - and if that means him playing every week then he probably is at the wrong club.

Laphroaig

Without excluding tournaments. The cups are football too.

Brwned

Of much less importance though, as we can all see by the team's that were played in the League and FA Cups too.

Tevez knows that playing in the FA Cup and Carling Cup alongside Nani, Gibson, Welbeck and co. isn't quite the same/as fufilling as playing alongside Rooney, Carrick and Ronaldo, as do we all.

Laphroaig

Yes, but he also should know that those games are opportunities for him to force his way into the starting eleven for other "more important" games. He was brilliant against Blackburn and Fulham (and maybe Spurs in the FA Cup?), but didn't really sparkle in his other six starts in those cups. (If my memory serves.) It's not just about him being happy with the matches he plays, it's about getting the opportunities. That's why we need to count all appearances, and not just the glamorous ones.

RedPhil1957

I am sure he is not that pissed about winning the Carling Cup, Rio for one was desperate to play in the final.

pillory

Argh. Okay, I've added the number of matches the pairings have started together:

Ronaldo/Rooney 7 (24)
Ronaldo/Berbatov 6 (29)
Giggs/Ronaldo 5 (17)
Rooney/Tevez 4 (10)
Tevez/Berbatov 4 (12)
Carrick/Ronaldo 4 (27)

anything about now

Tevez doesn't have to compete with Messi and Aguero, he compliments them with his style. Tevez probably competes with someone like Maxi Rodriguez, and he is a lot better than him. He really doesn't have much to worry about, Fergie obviously values and trusts him enough to play him in big games such as last night, it's not like he's playing second fiddle like a reserve keeper.

The only thing is that perhaps some people are fucking with his mind, just like Pepe screwed with Ronaldo's mind.

Ole_Gunnar

The team is made of lots of partnerships:

Vidic - Rio
Evra - Ronaldo
Scholes - Carrick
Tevez - Rooney
Ronnie- Rooney
Park - Evra

...

Brwned

Not really sure that's true, I mean he did score a hattrick against Blackburn but that didn't help him get in the team, he was on the bench again for the next match.

Overall 2696 for Tevez, 2768 for Berbatov.

Laphroaig

Have Tevez and Ronaldo never combined to score?

pillory

Where are your numbers from? I have Tevez 3070 and Berbatov 2959.

pillory

Once (in 17 starts). The cut-off was at four.

Laphroaig

But the next game was three days later, and since he played the entire 90 minutes it's understandable that he was rested. He did play six consecutive games after that.

Thanks

Brwned

ESPN, I presumed we're just counting the league, Champions League, Carling Cup and FA Cup, not the rest?

I took the stats from your article for Tevez's league minutes and Berbatov's Champions League minutes, and then added the rest on.

Laphroaig

So in order to be consistent those who claim that Tevez and Rooney's understanding is far superior to that of Berbatov and Rooney will also have to agree that Berbatov and Ronaldo's understanding far exceeds that of Ronaldo and Tevez.

AlwaysRedwood

Yes, and it's also very telling that he didn't include cup games in his "stats"

pillory

I have 2959 for Berbatov and and 2835 for Tevez in those tournaments. The Independent and ESPN are probably not quite up to date, seeing as I never get anything wrong ever.

I like how this has turned into a debate about the accuracy and usefulness of various four-digit numbers.

Laphroaig

So when we're making a point of how little Tevez has played we must exclude the cup games, while when we're making a point about how many goals he's scored we must include them?

Pogue Mahone

Welcome to redcafe.

Brwned

You're an odd lad, but in a good way.

Cantona07

Tevez is a good player and I like him. But TBH, I dont really care if he goes. He scores too little goals, yes important but too little. He misses alot of decent chances too. United need a more lethal striker up front and Tevez is simply not the answer.

AlwaysRedwood

Actually, I was just pointing out his bullshit stats. I have never commented on the number of minutes. I think Tevez has been treated like shit this season, after what he brought us last season and he should go. I could give up fuck about minutes, but if you're going to use stats, don't be a cunt about it.

giggs-beckham

His moaning to the press fucks me off and i hated his head shaking when he was subbed.
Love his commitment on the field as we all do. but if he cant take the competition at the biggest club in the world and realise its a squad game then he can jog on!

Brwned

Christ, it's like we're going around in circles.

Yes, he's been treated like shit, despite playing 45 games this season, while playing at the best team in the world.

Sucks to be him.

AlwaysRedwood

Win CL, win League, lose starting spot in first game of season.

I'm surprised it took him this long to show his frustration and he should be given some credit for that.

AlwaysRedwood

Some of us will see it that way, some will not. Suck it up and accept it. I've accepted your lack of understanding.

Brwned

No reason for me to accept it though, it's illogical and based on very little evidence, more on perception.

I'll just ignore it rather than accept it.