The type of striker we need

Alex · 15th May 2008, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Owen has enough quality to play in any side in the world. He'll end up Englands best ever goalscorer before he reaches 30. If Real Madrid had any sense, he would still be there and in the side. his scoring record was extremely impressive over there.

People talk about the true class players outside the top 4. Berbatov is always mentioned, but Michael Owen rarely is. If there is a true proven world-class player in that bracket, then Owen is that player.

If United don't sign him this summer, some other big club will shortly, and opinions will change very quickly.

The difference is that Berbatov is hitting/in his prime, and Owen is on the way down and has been since his injuries, Berbatov is superior to Owen now I have no doubts about that

devilish · 15th May 2008, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

You seriously reckon someone like Benzema or Berbatov would settle for rotation? I mean, even Huntelaar says he'll only move to a team that make him first choice, and he isn't a patch on the other two. The fact is, when you spend £25+ million on a player, they will expect to be first choice.

As someone said earlier, we don't want to turn into a team of big names, or 'galacticos', we need to strike a balance between having big name players (Rio, Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo etc) and the lesser named players (Anderson, Nani, Pique Saha (well, if fit)).

This means we have a well balanced team, full of players that are good enough to start any game, but that won't moan when not playing. This in turn creates a good healthy competition for places (as Nani and Anderson have proven this season) and good team moral. Having a squad full of 'big' names and expensive players is not always the best option (as Real Madrid have proven). It may look good on paper, and help on FM, but in reality, it isn't the best option.

Ive been saying this all along until I got fed up discussing this and let it go. Too many stars will not only put a strain on our already delicate financial situation but it may cause friction between the players. It had happened with Real between 97 till 2001 and it may happen with us.

What we need is a young or experienced striker who will give us a different dimension while being ready to accept the bench. You dont need to spend a fortune to get a decent striker. I mean if Arsenal (Adebayor), Zaragoza (Milito) and Spurs (Berbatov) can do it so can we.

devilish · 15th May 2008, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bape

Rooney is a better player than Tevez (according to Fergie anyway) so he simply will not be benched for him. Yes, he may be if he had a massive dip in form or the other two formed an absolutely unheard of partnership, but I very much doubt these two scenarios will happen.

Why does signing big name striker = break up Rooney/Tevez/Ron combo? How do you know a big name striker will 'demand' to play all the time, chances are he will settle for rotation and fight for his place as he would be at arguably the biggest club in the world. Instead of thinking of breaking that combo, perhaps we can see it as adding to it instead.

Im sure that all world class striker would just love to sit on the bench and wait for their chance with us.

SittingBull · 15th May 2008, 07:04

Brian Mcbride would be a decent backup option. Probably as 5th choice.

And no, i'm not joking.

Cupid Stunt · 15th May 2008, 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingBull

Brian Mcbride would be a decent backup option. Probably as 5th choice.

And no, i'm not joking.

Kiwi Red · 15th May 2008, 07:17

I'm impressed with myself, my first ever thread to go over 100 replies!!

From what I can see, the summaries of players so far...

Main options:

Benzema = young, amazing player, would cost 25m...but is he happy to be rotated?

Berbatov = quality, aged 27 so not old, would cost 25m, offers something a little different but could fit with our style...but is he happy to be rotated?

Huntelaar = another good player, young and would cost 20m...but only wants to be first choice (natural for any player, by the way)

Owen = good goalscorer, fits our style (small, quick, etc.), does well in the EPL...but is injury prone and not United quality (say some)

Other options include:

- Luis Fabiano

- An older striker - Gudjohnsen, Trezegeut, Benni McCarthy, Larsson, Brian McBride.

The Key issues:

- Fitting our current style vs. offering something different

- Age

- Are they happy to be rotated or not play in some of the big games

- A world class striker vs. a developing youthful prospect

Alex · 15th May 2008, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingBull

Brian Mcbride would be a decent backup option. Probably as 5th choice.

And no, i'm not joking.

He could win us the Carling Cup

Cupid Stunt · 15th May 2008, 07:24

I think SAF and CQ will really suprise us in this transfer market and buy young players that we have not been strongly linked with. We also have Campbell and Welbeck looking to break into the first team, they desearve a chance, especially Campbell, he's at the right age now for the first team, has a great work ethic and his pace is undefendable. Terrorised the Championship with Hull. Plus there will be 7 subs next year not 5 so the younger players have a greater chance of getting first team experiance at United.

Kiwi Red · 15th May 2008, 07:29

That last point from Cupid Stunt is quite a fair one - the extra places on the bench will make a difference and give SAF the chance to give the youngsters more experience.

However, let me put a scenario forward...season coming to an end, Saha is injured.

If we were a vital match, and we were losing 1-0 and Tevez or Rooney gets injured, who would you like to bring on?

A young striker like a Wellbeck or Campbell or Manucho, relatively unproven, and from reports, not quality (still a good player, but not great)?

I think that's our current problem. Tevez and Rooney are great first team strikers, it's just that 3rd striking position. Ronaldo can fill in, but not over the course of an entire league campaign.
Manucho, Wellbeck and Campbell can make up that fourth spot - that's sorted.

It's just that 3rd position, where the player will still play a lot of games, just maybe not start the crunch ones. Is there a player who really fits that bill?

All the top choices, (Berbatov, Benzema and Co.) all would want to start. Does that mean start them, and bump Tevez to the bench?

That seems to be the easier solution, because no one currently out there strikes me as a potential "3rd striker at United"

Alex · 15th May 2008, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi Red

That last point from Cupid Stunt is quite a fair one - the extra places on the bench will make a difference and give SAF the chance to give the youngsters more experience.

However, let me put a scenario forward...season coming to an end, Saha is injured.

If we were a vital match, and we were losing 1-0 and Tevez or Rooney gets injured, who would you like to bring on?

A young striker like a Wellbeck or Campbell or Manucho, relatively unproven, and from reports, not quality (still a good player, but not great)?

I think that's our current problem. Tevez and Rooney are great first team strikers, it's just that 3rd striking position. Ronaldo can fill in, but not over the course of an entire league campaign.
Manucho, Wellbeck and Campbell can make up that fourth spot - that's sorted.

It's just that 3rd position, where the player will still play a lot of games, just maybe not start the crunch ones. Is there a player who really fits that bill?

All the top choices, (Berbatov, Benzema and Co.) all would want to start. Does that mean start them, and bump Tevez to the bench?

That seems to be the easier solution, because no one currently out there strikes me as a potential "3rd striker at United"

He sat there quite often this year

BaldwinLegend · 15th May 2008, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThaiDevils#7

It's not with the way we play. It's about the striker we need to fit in the squad right now and we're one striker short. U r deluded thinking my post was about the way we are playing right now and playing back then.

I wasn't answering your post you mug.

RedThaiDevils#7 · 15th May 2008, 07:39

Hopefully a striker will pop out of the U17-U20's or something then.... ( France, Portugal, Spain, Italy maybe even Serbia, Would love a Vidic type striker :keane

. England's U18 striker is already in our hands and he's name is Welbeck.

BaldwinLegend · 15th May 2008, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi Red

Owen = good goalscorer, fits our style (small, quick, etc.), does well in the EPL...but is injury prone and not United quality (say some)

Says the Godfather... Apparently he thinks a former Real Madrid striker and FIFA European Player of the Year isn't United quality...

Cupid Stunt · 15th May 2008, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi Red

That last point from Cupid Stunt is quite a fair one - the extra places on the bench will make a difference and give SAF the chance to give the youngsters more experience.

However, let me put a scenario forward...season coming to an end, Saha is injured.

If we were a vital match, and we were losing 1-0 and Tevez or Rooney gets injured, who would you like to bring on?

A young striker like a Wellbeck or Campbell or Manucho, relatively unproven, and from reports, not quality (still a good player, but not great)?

I think that's our current problem. Tevez and Rooney are great first team strikers, it's just that 3rd striking position. Ronaldo can fill in, but not over the course of an entire league campaign.
Manucho, Wellbeck and Campbell can make up that fourth spot - that's sorted.

It's just that 3rd position, where the player will still play a lot of games, just maybe not start the crunch ones. Is there a player who really fits that bill?

All the top choices, (Berbatov, Benzema and Co.) all would want to start. Does that mean start them, and bump Tevez to the bench?

That seems to be the easier solution, because no one currently out there strikes me as a potential "3rd striker at United"

The scenario you have put forward is a common one and one that has to be taken into serious consideration by SAF.

I personally cant see Saha being here next season in the first place, wouldnt be suprised if he stays though. In the future Ronaldo is going to play as a striker more often IMO, he has all the ability and physical attributes to succeed as a striker. He is definitely a striking option that SAF use's at this moment and will probably continue to use. He also play's there alot for Portugal and this proves to be very effective.

I watched Manucho in the AFCON and he really impressed but I think we cant expect anything from him early on, Campbell on the other hand can be relied upon, his game is quite simple, but in a good way, he looks to use his pace in behind. His link up play, composure and finishing is good so I cant see him having problems adapting to the Premiership or our style of play. Welbeck is too raw to play a part as a squad or rotation player next season IMO. I do think Welbeck will make the grade at United, he is a classy act and in 2 years time he will be more prepared mentally and physically. He's one of the few young players outside the first team i'm really enthused about at United, he doesnt have any standout weakness's in his game.

I dont think there is anything wrong with.. Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Campbell, Manucho, Welbeck.

BaldwinLegend · 15th May 2008, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupid Stunt

I dont think there is anything wrong with.. Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Campbell, Manucho, Welbeck.

SAF must surely have lost patience with him by now. I reckon he could score the winner in Moscow and he'd still leave...

Cupid Stunt · 15th May 2008, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldwinLegend

SAF must surely have lost patience with him by now. I reckon he could score the winner in Moscow and he'd still leave...

I think we have all lost patience with Saha, but who knows maybe he will get over his injury problems in the pre-season break? Even without Saha we are not in a striker crisis like some people want to believe. I think he'll go this summer but I dont think his departure means we have to go out and spend 30 million on a player that will most likely struggle to displace Rooney and Tevez'.

Eto'odinho · 15th May 2008, 08:07

Anyone but a midget. We need ability to stretch defences,athleticism and a bit of height upfront.

devilish · 15th May 2008, 08:07

I dont know why we tend to consider just two types of options ie the world class striker type (Benzema, Berbatov etc) and the unproven/gamble type (Wellbeck, Campbell, Manucho etc). I mean there are other talent around whom while not being gambles they wont cost a fortune and they could slot in the role needed perfectly. Players like Suazo, Gomez, Quagliarella, Milito, Vagner love and Pogrebnyak deserve a second look by our scouts but also EPL tested striker like Andy Johnson could do the trick.

BaldwinLegend · 15th May 2008, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupid Stunt

I think he'll go this summer but I dont think his departure means we have to go out and spend 30 million on a player that will most likely struggle to displace Rooney and Tevez'.

I don't think it's about displacing Rooney or Tevez - it's about complementing them.

United is the only club of it's size with just two front line strikers. Look at the options Barcelona have, or Milan, or Arsenal when all their strikers are fit.

I think Wellbeck or Manucho are ready to be our 4th choice striker, but there's definitely space at the club for a quality signing to offer more options up front, and all Fergie to rest Rooney or Tevez.

Cupid Stunt · 15th May 2008, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I dont know why we tend to consider just two types of options ie the world class striker type (Benzema, Berbatov etc) and the unproven/gamble type (Wellbeck, Campbell, Manucho etc). I mean there are other talent around whom while not being gambles they wont cost a fortune and they could slot in the role needed perfectly. Players like Suazo, Gomez, Quagliarella, Milito, Vagner love and Pogrebnyak deserve a second look by our scouts but also EPL tested striker like Andy Johnson could do the trick.

Because we actually own those players

Diego Milito would be a good option, i was thinking about him the other day. Only problem i can find is would we get the best out of him? He seems to thrive on cross's and we dont cross the ball that much these day's. However that could change if he arrived at OT. Quagliarella would be great, he versatile and a gifted player, no doubt. However the names your mentioning dont come cheap either, you're talking around 15 million for these players in the current market. Not only that this isnt FM its real life you have to take into account a person character and speculate how they fit into the group, lots of players have the ability to play for a top club but most either dont fit in or have a poor attitude to team ethic.

Cupid Stunt · 15th May 2008, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldwinLegend

I don't think it's about displacing Rooney or Tevez - it's about complementing them.

United is the only club of it's size with just two front line strikers. Look at the options Barcelona have, or Milan, or Arsenal when all their strikers are fit.

I think Wellbeck or Manucho are ready to be our 4th choice striker, but there's definitely space at the club for a quality signing to offer more options up front, and all Fergie to rest Rooney or Tevez.

I agree 100% with this, but who worth their salt and on the back of a high transfer fee is going to want to come and compliment (sit on the bench) Rooney and Tevez?

Benzema? Berbatov? I think not.

EDIT: I agree with Devilish, we could do with someone proven in European football but doesnt expect too much, the names he put forward are quite realistic and complimentary to Rooney and Tevez. Although i doubt any of those will be signed but he's in the right ballpark.

Eto'odinho · 15th May 2008, 08:25

Was watching a few games involving Germany on telly last night and my oh my, that Gomez fella looks like he's 7ft tall.He displayed great movement, awareness, anticipation and finishing. Fergie please go out and splash the cash on him, please sir!

devilish · 15th May 2008, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupid Stunt

Because we actually own those players

Diego Milito would be a good option, i was thinking about him the other day. Only problem i can find is would we get the best out of him? He seems to thrive on cross's and we dont cross the ball that much these day's. However that could change if he arrived at OT. Quagliarella would be great, he versatile and a gifted player, no doubt. However the names your mentioning dont come cheap either, you're talking around 15 million for these players in the current market. Not only that this isnt FM its real life you have to take into account a person character and speculate how they fit into the group, lots of players have the ability to play for a top club but most either dont fit in or have a poor attitude to team ethic.

I dont think that they would cost that much my friend. Fees may be high in the EPL but in other countries (expecially Italy) clubs are finding it pretty hard to make ends meet. Take Suazo as an example. The man ended up topscorer in Italy last season and shared the best foreign player of the year with Kaka himself. He changed hands for around 6m. Its not that much isnt it?

Im not saying that we should take one of those players in the list, I am just saying that those players deserves a second look by our scouts. I also believe that it would be much harder to integrate a 20m rated prima donna in our system rather then bring in a player like Suazo or Quagliarella who went up through the ranks and had already already experienced the feeling of winning a first team place through hardwork and commitment.

BTW ive mentioned those names just as an example.....

Escobar · 15th May 2008, 08:30

There would be enough games for 3 class strikers during the season. Benzema would be perfect, but unlikely to get and I'm not a fan of Berbatov.

Welbeck, although very talented, is not ready imo and yet too young, while I wouldnt count on Manucho.

BaldwinLegend · 15th May 2008, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escobar

There would be enough games for 3 class strikers during the season. Benzema would be perfect, but unlikely to get and I'm not a fan of Berbatov.

Welbeck, although very talented, is not ready imo and yet too young, while I wouldnt count on Manucho.

Agreed.

Eto'odinho · 15th May 2008, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I dont think that they would cost that much my friend. Fees may be high in the EPL but in other countries (expecially Italy) clubs are finding it pretty hard to make ends meet. Take Suazo as an example. The man ended up topscorer in Italy last season and shared the best foreign player of the year with Kaka himself. He changed hands for around 6m. Its not that much isnt it?

Im not saying that we should take one of those players in the list, I am just saying that those players deserves a second look by our scouts. I also believe that it would be much harder to integrate a 20m rated prima donna in our system rather then bring in a player like Suazo or Quagliarella who went up through the ranks and had already already experienced the feeling of winning a first team place through hardwork and commitment.

BTW ive mentioned those names just as an example.....

Speaking of Suazo, how has he been doing at Inter? I take it that he hasn't been playing much, is this true? He could be worth a look, a two season loan signing perhaps?

devilish · 15th May 2008, 08:41

Quote:

15th May 2008, 07:29	#169 (permalink)
Kiwi Red Youth Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 315	That last point from Cupid Stunt is quite a fair one - the extra places on the bench will make a difference and give SAF the chance to give the youngsters more experience. However, let me put a scenario forward...season coming to an end, Saha is injured. If we were a vital match, and we were losing 1-0 and Tevez or Rooney gets injured, who would you like to bring on? A young striker like a Wellbeck or Campbell or Manucho, relatively unproven, and from reports, not quality (still a good player, but not great)? I think that's our current problem. Tevez and Rooney are great first team strikers, it's just that 3rd striking position. Ronaldo can fill in, but not over the course of an entire league campaign. Manucho, Wellbeck and Campbell can make up that fourth spot - that's sorted. It's just that 3rd position, where the player will still play a lot of games, just maybe not start the crunch ones. Is there a player who really fits that bill? All the top choices, (Berbatov, Benzema and Co.) all would want to start. Does that mean start them, and bump Tevez to the bench? That seems to be the easier solution, because no one currently out there strikes me as a potential "3rd striker at United" Last edited by Kiwi Red : 15th May 2008 at 07:30. Reason: spelling mistake

15th May 2008, 07:39	#172 (permalink)
RedThaiDevils#7 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: THAILAND Posts: 919	Hopefully a striker will pop out of the U17-U20's or something then.... ( France, Portugal, Spain, Italy maybe even Serbia, Would love a Vidic type striker :keane. England's U18 striker is already in our hands and he's name is Welbeck.

15th May 2008, 07:04	#164 (permalink)
SittingBull Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,411	Brian Mcbride would be a decent backup option. Probably as 5th choice. And no, i'm not joking.

15th May 2008, 07:17	#166 (permalink)
Kiwi Red Youth Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 315	I'm impressed with myself, my first ever thread to go over 100 replies!! From what I can see, the summaries of players so far... Main options: Benzema = young, amazing player, would cost 25m...but is he happy to be rotated? Berbatov = quality, aged 27 so not old, would cost 25m, offers something a little different but could fit with our style...but is he happy to be rotated? Huntelaar = another good player, young and would cost 20m...but only wants to be first choice (natural for any player, by the way) Owen = good goalscorer, fits our style (small, quick, etc.), does well in the EPL...but is injury prone and not United quality (say some) Other options include: - Luis Fabiano - An older striker - Gudjohnsen, Trezegeut, Benni McCarthy, Larsson, Brian McBride. The Key issues: - Fitting our current style vs. offering something different - Age - Are they happy to be rotated or not play in some of the big games - A world class striker vs. a developing youthful prospect

15th May 2008, 07:24	#168 (permalink)
Cupid Stunt Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: "In that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a shit hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a shit hanging from a stick." Posts: 1,524	I think SAF and CQ will really suprise us in this transfer market and buy young players that we have not been strongly linked with. We also have Campbell and Welbeck looking to break into the first team, they desearve a chance, especially Campbell, he's at the right age now for the first team, has a great work ethic and his pace is undefendable. Terrorised the Championship with Hull. Plus there will be 7 subs next year not 5 so the younger players have a greater chance of getting first team experiance at United.

15th May 2008, 08:07	#177 (permalink)
Eto'odinho Retard magnet Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Barad Dûr Posts: 9,021	Anyone but a midget. We need ability to stretch defences,athleticism and a bit of height upfront.

15th May 2008, 08:07	#178 (permalink)
devilish Nationality: Italian-English, Maltese Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cnut's home Posts: 18,170	I dont know why we tend to consider just two types of options ie the world class striker type (Benzema, Berbatov etc) and the unproven/gamble type (Wellbeck, Campbell, Manucho etc). I mean there are other talent around whom while not being gambles they wont cost a fortune and they could slot in the role needed perfectly. Players like Suazo, Gomez, Quagliarella, Milito, Vagner love and Pogrebnyak deserve a second look by our scouts but also EPL tested striker like Andy Johnson could do the trick.

15th May 2008, 08:25	#182 (permalink)
Eto'odinho Retard magnet Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Barad Dûr Posts: 9,021	Was watching a few games involving Germany on telly last night and my oh my, that Gomez fella looks like he's 7ft tall.He displayed great movement, awareness, anticipation and finishing. Fergie please go out and splash the cash on him, please sir!

15th May 2008, 08:30	#184 (permalink)
Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Federer-Land Posts: 12,102	There would be enough games for 3 class strikers during the season. Benzema would be perfect, but unlikely to get and I'm not a fan of Berbatov. Welbeck, although very talented, is not ready imo and yet too young, while I wouldnt count on Manucho.

15th May 2008, 08:41	#187 (permalink)
devilish Nationality: Italian-English, Maltese Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cnut's home Posts: 18,170	Quote: