Utds treatment of Jimmy Murphy

Eyepopper · 7th February 2012, 21:47

Found this piece pretty interesting

Quote:

February 1958 was a bleak time for everybody associated with Manchester United. As news of the Munich air disaster filtered back to the smoky city in north-west England, as the deaths of so many of Matt Busby’s young team were confirmed, as it became clear that the brightest light in a team of beacons, Duncan Edwards, was losing his desperate battle for survival, and as the “old man” himself struggled to survive, many in Manchester and beyond doubted whether Manchester United could survive, whether the club could live on after such a devastating tragedy.

Jimmy Murphy heard the news when returning to Old Trafford after a Wales World Cup qualifying match (Murphy was, at the time, the Wales manager). As he walked into the ground, unaware of the events in Munich, the first person he met was Busby’s secretary, Alma George. The events were relayed, and the usually hard-nosed Welshman began to cry.

As crisis meetings were held, it was suggested by some members of the board that Manchester United should close, disappear as a club and reopen when the way forward seemed clearer. Jimmy Murphy stood against them, insisted that the club remain open and, taking Matt Busby’s instruction- “Keep the flag flying Jim”- to heart, rebuilt the team and ensured that Manchester United lived on.

Matt Busby first noticed the leadership qualities of Jimmy Murphy in spring 1945. Busby was in Bari, southern Italy, having been given the United job just weeks before, and witnessed a fiery Welshman giving a passionate team-talk to a group of NCO’s before a match. So impressed was Busby, he immediately offered Murphy the job of assistant manager. Murphy was to coach through the United youth system the core of players that would eventually form the Busby Babes, and provide a perfect foil for Busby on the training ground.

Thirteen years later he was, through his spirit, fire and determination, to ensure that Manchester United survived and, in the early post-Munich years, provide Matt Busby with the crucial support and resolve needed to continue as manager.

Murphy’s contribution to the very survival of the club is so often overlooked by many Reds, the man named “the giant of Munich” by Martin Edwards so often just a man in the background. Yet without Murphy, United would undoubtedly have closed, perhaps never to reopen. Instead Murphy rebuilt a shattered team, a shattered club, a shattered set of supporters and, although United’s league form faltered, led the team to the FA Cup final of 1958, where they were beaten by Bolton Wanderers.

Yet, despite everything he did for the club, when Busby retired Murphy was almost forgotten, treated appallingly by the club.

The following is an extract from Jim White’s “Manchester United The Biography”:

Murphy was retired with Matt. No ones asked. He was just retired. And Wilf [McGuinness, who replaced Busby as manager] wouldn’t help him, didn’t consult his old mentor, wouldn’t give him a job to do. The man who, according to Martin Edwards “had played a blinder after Munich” was moved along without a thank you, obliged to sit in Joe Armstrong’s office and occasionally scout for young players for £25 a week. He had never learned to drive a car, but the club had always paid for a taxi to bring him from his home to the Cliff [training ground]. That was cut-unnecessary expense, the board thought. Jimmy knew it was over when he was obliged to catch a bus to work. Jimmy Murphy: the giant of Munich became its final victim.

“Jimmy Murphy: the giant of Munich became its final victim.” I find it astounding that more United fans do not acknowledge the contribution that Jimmy Murphy made to the history- and, indeed, survival- of the club. I also find it astounding that the club has not done more to honour the memory of a man so important in the history of the club.

As we once again arrive at the anniversary of the Munich air disaster, I just thought it would be fittingly apt to honour the man many seem to forget. Jimmy Murphy: the giant of Munich.

The Man Who Saved United: “The Giant Of Munich” | Red Flag Flying High

Obviously I was aware of Jimmy and always felt he never really got the credit he deserved given his role in the aftermath of Munich and contribution to the club, but I wasn't aware of just how he had been treated in his final days.

Shocking stuff, is it common knowledge? Anyone else know any more on it?

Pogue Mahone · 7th February 2012, 21:50

I blame the Glazers.

Cutch · 7th February 2012, 21:55

I had a really good book a while ago called 'The lost babes', that i'd recommend everyone to read. Tells all about the forgotten victims of Munich. Injured players, victims families etc. It wasn't just Murphy that was treated poorly by the club by the sounds of it.

Snow · 7th February 2012, 22:02

You sure he was treated poorly? There's a statue off him inside the stadium with a mini bio next to it and behind the statue there are quotes from him and about him written in big letters.

Quote:

Murphy chose never to become manager of the club because of his hate of the limelight, he loved working in the background but never aspired to fulfil the job of manager.

The award for being the best young player at Manchester Unites is called Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year Award

Moriarty · 7th February 2012, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutch

I had a really good book a while ago called 'The lost babes', that i'd recommend everyone to read. Tells all about the forgotten victims of Munich. Injured players, victims families etc. It wasn't just Murphy that was treated poorly by the club by the sounds of it.

I've got a copy of that book by Jeff Connor. Some pretty sobering stuff in there, especially the bit about Albert Scanlon.

Dion · 7th February 2012, 22:09

“Jimmy Murphy: the giant of Munich became its final victim.”

The person who wrote that needs to sort themselves out.

Raven Blade · 8th February 2012, 01:15

Not exactly our finest hour, was it?

Overall our club behaves with a lot of class but we've had a few disgraceful moments down the years. We shouldn't forget what Jimmy Murphy and the others affected did for us. Things might not have turned out so successfully without their sacrifices. At least I feel like he's getting more recognition in recent times. His story deserves to be remembered forever.

Bread · 8th February 2012, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

You sure he was treated poorly? There's a statue off him inside the stadium with a mini bio next to it and behind the statue there are quotes from him and about him written in big letters.

The award for being the best young player at Manchester Unites is called Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year Award

Doesn't matter even slightly, that award has only been there since 1990 and to be frank means nothing as far as Jimmy's life goes, the recognition is nice but it doesn't and didn't put any food on his or his families table. The difference in attitudes and treatment of current or former players until the very recent past is just worlds apart, you took what happened through your professional life and dealt with it. In this day and age where player's and managers earn multi million pound salaries it wouldn't effect them half as much if their clubs ditched them as soon as they were off the pay roll but then it could have made a huge difference to the rest of their lives, It's not exactly the club's finest hour to see how some of the former professional's were treated once they had finished playing or coaching the team but it is not out of character for how most companies would have acted at the time.

England1966 · 8th February 2012, 01:39

on wiki there are a few things about him
Jimmy Murphy (footballer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Neviller · 8th February 2012, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread

Doesn't matter even slightly, that award has only been there since 1990 and to be frank means nothing as far as Jimmy's life goes, the recognition is nice but it doesn't and didn't put any food on his or his families table. The difference in attitudes and treatment of current or former players until the very recent past is just worlds apart, you took what happened through your professional life and dealt with it. In this day and age where player's and managers earn multi million pound salaries it wouldn't effect them half as much if their clubs ditched them as soon as they were off the pay roll but then it could have made a huge difference to the rest of their lives, It's not exactly the club's finest hour to see how some of the former professional's were treated once they had finished playing or coaching the team but it is not out of character for how most companies would have acted at the time.

It was introduced in honour of his death, he died in 89. Should they have introduced an award in honour of his death before he died?

Bread · 8th February 2012, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Neviller

It was introduced in honour of his death, he died in 89. Should they have introduced an award in honour of his death before he died?

No it is a nice gesture but it doesn't even slightly effect the point of the OP or the article he posted.

Think if you served the company you worked for for as long as he served United and you were then thrown out on your ear in the same way he was, would them naming an award after you really make up for it?

The Neviller · 8th February 2012, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread

No it is a nice gesture but it doesn't even slightly effect the point of the OP or the article he posted.

Think if you served the company you worked for for as long as he served United and you were then thrown out on your ear in the same way he was, would them naming an award after you really make up for it?

I get what you're saying, and I'm not suggesting United behaved correctly towards ex-employees, but your criticism of the award was that it was only in existence since 1990, which, whilst true, is an entirely pointless criticism, since the award was started as a tribute to him and was first awarded the year after his death.

Bread · 8th February 2012, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Neviller

I get what you're saying, and I'm not suggesting United behaved correctly towards ex-employees, but your criticism of the award was that it was only in existence since 1990, which, whilst true, is an entirely pointless criticism, since the award was started as a tribute to him and was first awarded the year after his death.

It's not intended to be a criticism. I just mean that it's existence doesn't effect Jimmy Murphy himself at all and doesn't effect the poor treatment he and many other ex-pro's received. The award is a fine tribute and a great way to keep his name involved in United but it doesn't change anything about the way he was forced to leave United.

Sonny Feehan · 8th February 2012, 02:03

I would like to hear the other side of this story if there is one, preferably from Tom Clare. I can vaguely remember claims that Johnny Berry and Jackie Blanchflower had been poorly treated and that United were not in general the most generous of clubs but it is hard to find precedents for and comparisons with such such a tragic and unique accident.

The Neviller · 8th February 2012, 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread

It's not intended to be a criticism. I just mean that it's existence doesn't effect Jimmy Murphy himself at all and doesn't effect the poor treatment he and many other ex-pro's received. The award is a fine tribute and a great way to keep his name involved in United but it doesn't change anything about the way he was forced to leave United.

Fair enough, just came across like you were having a go because the award only existed since 1990.

I get what you're saying though. I guess it's different times, were any ex-footballers/ex-employees at any other clubs treated any differently after their careers finished though? I know what happened at United was exceptional circumstances, but there were plenty ex-players down through the years who ended up on the breadline once their careers had finished. As much as what happened back then may have been wrong, was it only at United this happened, or was it the norm? I think United still deserve some credit for how they've gone about trying to right some of those wrongs since, and it's quite clear that they treat their ex-employees with alot of respect now. Some of those older players continue to feature as guests, and presumably paid guests, on MUTV now for example.

Snow · 8th February 2012, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread

Doesn't matter even slightly, that award has only been there since 1990 and to be frank means nothing as far as Jimmy's life goes, the recognition is nice but it doesn't and didn't put any food on his or his families table. The difference in attitudes and treatment of current or former players until the very recent past is just worlds apart, you took what happened through your professional life and dealt with it. In this day and age where player's and managers earn multi million pound salaries it wouldn't effect them half as much if their clubs ditched them as soon as they were off the pay roll but then it could have made a huge difference to the rest of their lives, It's not exactly the club's finest hour to see how some of the former professional's were treated once they had finished playing or coaching the team but it is not out of character for how most companies would have acted at the time.

How was he treated badly exactly? The only thing I see is that Wilf didn't want him, which was his right since he was the manager and the manager decides what staff he wants around him, and that the taxi wasn't paid for him anymore, because why would it if he didn't have a coaching job anymore?

I'm sorry but I don't see it as bad treatment. He still held a job at an unstable club. You weren't there. You can't just read something vague from one viewpoint and decide based on that people were treated badly.

Then you simply dismiss this honor he got. The club usually honors players and managers yet he's shown the biggest honor a coach and a member of the backroom staff has gotten.

And the end of the day it's still a work place. Football stars aren't better humans then you and me. They're just better at football. They're not gods.

Eyepopper · 9th February 2012, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

How was he treated badly exactly? The only thing I see is that Wilf didn't want him, which was his right since he was the manager and the manager decides what staff he wants around him, and that the taxi wasn't paid for him anymore, because why would it if he didn't have a coaching job anymore?

I'm sorry but I don't see it as bad treatment. He still held a job at an unstable club. You weren't there. You can't just read something vague from one viewpoint and decide based on that people were treated badly.

Then you simply dismiss this honor he got. The club usually honors players and managers yet he's shown the biggest honor a coach and a member of the backroom staff has gotten.

And the end of the day it's still a work place. Football stars aren't better humans then you and me. They're just better at football. They're not gods.

So say if a new manager comes into Utd who doesn't want Fergies input, then Fergie should be given a handshake and a goodbye and sent on his way then should he?

Also why do we have people like Robson, Charlton etc acting as ambassadors, they've outlived their usefulness surely?

jdmufc · 9th February 2012, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

So say if a new manager comes into Utd who doesn't want Fergies input, then Fergie should be given a handshake and a goodbye and sent on his way then should he?

Also why do we have people like Robson, Charlton etc acting as ambassadors, they've outlived their usefulness surely?

yes!! he can be an ambassador but why should he have any input,this club is bigger than any one person and that includes the manager,i believe that having the old manager hanging around in the background can sometimes have an adverse effect and can hinder a new manager just as much as it could help them.

Eyepopper · 9th February 2012, 10:43

I'm not talking about making him and ambassador, why make him an ambassador? Surely, based on what Snow has said, all ties should be cut, and once he's outlived his usefulness it should be a handshake and goodbye.

jdmufc · 9th February 2012, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

I'm not talking about making him and ambassador, why make him an ambassador? Surely, based on what Snow has said, all ties should be cut, and once he's outlived his usefulness it should be a handshake and goodbye.

pretty much,yes.

Eyepopper · 9th February 2012, 11:04

So why do we bother having the likes of Charlton, Robson etc hanging round then?

Personally I think a connection to those that have contributed significantly to the history of the club should be maintained if possible, and that they should be looked after, particularly if, like Murphy, they've shown great loyalty and are at retirement age.

jojojo · 9th February 2012, 11:09

He was in his 60s when Busby stepped down. United, frankly, probably treated him the way most football clubs (and businesses in genera) treat their over 60s. His job disappeared, they treated him as semi-retired and squeezed him out. It's the era of the "gold watch and goodbye" school of retirement.

Throw in the fact that the club and team were in post-Busby disarray (though actually Sir Matt was still there) and I'm sure we were getting a lot of things wrong.

We have immense pride in our "family" club, the longevity of the manager, and yes, even the money it makes. But we had 6 managers in 15 years starting with McGuinness. SAF had to restructure the club, not just the team when he arrived. A lot of things went wrong and there's nothing we can do about that now.

What we can do now is understand how our club was built, the importance of Jimmy Murphy and others in its history and making sure we do the right thing by them now. Whether that's a statue at Old Trafford, tickets for a final, a job on match day, or buying an ex-players medals for the museum.

jdmufc · 9th February 2012, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

So why do we bother having the likes of Charlton, Robson etc hanging round then?

Personally I think a connection to those that have contributed significantly to the history of the club should be maintained if possible, and that they should be looked after, particularly if, like Murphy, they've shown great loyalty and are at retirement age.

i'm not sure what your argument is regarding the ex-players,don't you agree that having fergie looking over the managers shoulder can heap even more pressure on them?

yes,if he stayed at the club in some capacity he could offer the odd word of advice but that same advice could also be offered over the telephone away from the club,our next manager is going to be under a huge amount of pressure and i believe a clean break would be best for the club and the incoming manager.

Eyepopper · 9th February 2012, 11:31

I dont see what so hard to get, I think the club could have treated Murphy a bit better than they did towards the end of his career.

As for the impact of Fergie looking over someones shoulder, well I dont think I've suggested that but Fergie had Busby.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 9th February 2012, 11:39

I've always had the impression that he is held in the highest esteem at United.

Eyepopper · 9th February 2012, 11:44

Thats sort of the point, I've always had that impression too and to be fair, I think Gill and Fergie do, which is why I was sort of shocked that the powers that be at the time seem to have treated him a bit shabbily.

EDIT: The last paragraph about Utd fans not recognising his contribution is obviously bollocks and makes me question how well informed the author is.

I'm always right · 9th February 2012, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

I've always had the impression that he is held in the highest esteem at United.

Yeah me too. It seems the "appalling treatment" was basically the treatment most employees around his age in England at the time received, he was slowy pensioned off.

Hardly "appalling".

The club have certainly honoured him since.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 9th February 2012, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Yeah me too. It seems the "appalling treatment" was basically the treatment most employees around his age in England at the time received, he was slowy pensioned off.

Hardly "appalling".

Indeed

Stretch · 9th February 2012, 12:19

Sad to see how the club treated him in his latter years. But I'm glad to see the club has honoured his contribution to the club posthumously. Popper has a point though, none of the recognition kept him and his family's mouths open in his latter years and that really is a tragedy.

Stretch · 9th February 2012, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Yeah me too. It seems the "appalling treatment" was basically the treatment most employees around his age in England at the time received, he was slowy pensioned off.

Hardly "appalling".

The club have certainly honoured him since.

But then Jimmy Murphy was not 'most employees'. If it wasn't for him the likes Wilf and the club's staff wouldn't have jobs and yet nobody cared about him when he cared so much about Manchester United. He simply wasn't a 'normal' or 'a most' employee. And because of that it was appalling.

TomClare · 9th February 2012, 16:15

Jimmy Murphy's contribution to Manchester United should never ever be forgotten, and certainly, should be moire recognised by the club than it ever has been. Without Jimmy Murphy, Sir Matt Busby could NEVER have achieved the success that he did. Talk to all the oldplayers and they will tell you that it was Jimmy who really moulded their careers. It was Jimmy who spent the hours, days and nights down on the trining ground with the youngsters - it was Jimmy who made them into the players that they were. the job that Jimmy did immediately after Munich was so immense, that even today, it's so hard to comprehend the hours he put in keeping the club on an even keel, and making sure that we didn't slide. Have no doubts about that - I can't think of any other person who could have done the job that Jimmy Murphy did.

Was he treated badly by the club, I wouldn't say that he was, to be honest. When Sir Matt announced his retirement, Jimmy went as well, and he was given a 25K pay off (which was quite a fair bit of money back in 1958) as well asa smallpension.

He came back in 1972, to work as a scout for Tommy Doc (and he unearthed the gem that was Steve Coppell) and stayed on with Sexton after the Doc was fired. Sadly, Jimmy was getting into his 70's by then and didn't draw a wage just his expenses. He didn't drive, and used to use a taxi to get to the club etc. However, Martin Edwards put a stop to him claiming his expenses, so that's when Jim sadly called it a day.

The greatest sadness though was that Jimmy and Matt grew apart in their old age. Even when Jimmy was seriously ill, and eventually went into hospital, Matt didn't go to see him, which would have meant a lot.

Five years ago, the Former Players Association approached the club to have the North Stand renamed "The Jimmy Murphy Stand" and they were turned down flat by them. For me it would have been wonderful recognition for the service Jimmy gave to United. Yes, there is a bust of Jimmy at Old Trafford, but it is in the Munich Room at the Museum - and people have to pay to get into that place to see it. That doesn't sit quite right with me - as doesn't the musueum - but that's another story.

We have statues to Busby, to Law, Charlton and Best, and the North Stand has been renamed the SAF Stand too. Recognition that is so richly deserved. Even David Gill has his name on a plaque in the Munich tunnel -though why I will never know. There have been so many stalwarts down the years that have given their life's service to Manchester United - unsung heroes as it were - J.H. Davies, J.W. Gibson, Louis Rocca, Walter Crikmer, Les Olive, Harold Hardman, Jack Crompton, bert Whalley, Tom Curry, Billy Inglis, Ted dalton, Arthur Powell, just to mention a few. of course we also have such a litany of great players to add to that list as well.

it is virtually impossible to come up with some material recognition at the stadium for all of those people - they are chronicled in the annals of United's great history, and it is up to us as fans, to keep that great history, and their names alive to the future generations that follow us.

However, the case for Jimmy Murphy is a 'special' case, simply and purely because he was very 'special' and contributed so, so much, not only in the development of the club, but also in its salvation in 1958. For me it would be wonderful if one of the remaining stands could be named after him.

With regards to Johnny Berry and Jackie Blanchflower, it is true that the club made them give up their club houses after Munich. Johnny Berry's went to Maurice Setters when he signed from West Brom, and I believe Jackie Blanchflower's went to Noel Cantwell when he signed from West Ham. sad state of affairs really - Roger Byrne's family stayed in their club house for 20 year's after the disaster.

The Neviller · 9th February 2012, 16:27

Surely the special treatment and recognition Jimmy Murphy deserved is precisely why the club named the most prestigious honour a young player at our club can receive after him?

TomClare · 9th February 2012, 16:45

no, the Young Player of the Year Award was done in recognition of his service to young players and is an iternal club thing. Jimmy deserves MUCH more recognition than that especially externally to the fans and general public. I would guarantee that there are a large number of United fans today who don't even have a clue who Jimmy Murphy was.

Eirik Raude · 9th February 2012, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

But then Jimmy Murphy was not 'most employees'. If it wasn't for him the likes Wilf and the club's staff wouldn't have jobs and yet nobody cared about him when he cared so much about Manchester United. He simply wasn't a 'normal' or 'a most' employee. And because of that it was appalling.

This is exactly why I think he should have received better treatment from the club at the time. Why does it make it better that the treatment the club gave him, was the standard treatment at any other work place towards an employee? He kept the club alive, which makes him one of the most important people in the history of Manchester United, and therefore he should have been treated with a lot more respect. What the club has done after his death, is nice, but it doesn't really make up for what the club didn't do at the time, and it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the people in charge of the club in those days, made a bad mistake.

Eyepopper · 9th February 2012, 17:20

Exactly

I'm always right · 9th February 2012, 18:40

Tom doesn't think he wasn't treated so badly, so I'll take his word over poppers. In fact, I'm such a big fan of Tom that I'd take his word over Jesus'.

Good points as ever Tom, I'm certain that the majority of my United supporting friends have no clue as to who Jimmy Murphy is.

jdmufc · 9th February 2012, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Tom doesn't think he wasn't treated so badly, so I'll take his word over poppers. In fact, I'm such a big fan of Tom that I'd take his word over Jesus'.

Good points as ever Tom, I'm certain that the majority of my United supporting friends have no clue as to who Jimmy Murphy is.

yup,Tom for England is what i say!!

Ramshock · 9th February 2012, 20:24

Still even with what Tom said I think Jimmy could have been treated better, Im shocked to hear that had no idea.

I'm always right · 9th February 2012, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramshock

Still even with what Tom said I think Jimmy could have been treated better, Im shocked to hear that had no idea.

There's a huge gap between being "Treated Better" and popper's quoted article which states Jimmy was "treated appallingly by the club".

Relevated · 9th February 2012, 20:40

Why didnt Sir Matt visit Jim in hospital?

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7th February 2012, 21:50	#2 (permalink)
Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons from a deckchair" Posts: 59,522	I blame the Glazers.

7th February 2012, 21:55	#3 (permalink)
Cutch Shit stirrer (Literally) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern Ireland. W3101, Row 29, Seat 174 Posts: 5,498	I had a really good book a while ago called 'The lost babes', that i'd recommend everyone to read. Tells all about the forgotten victims of Munich. Injured players, victims families etc. It wasn't just Murphy that was treated poorly by the club by the sounds of it.

7th February 2012, 22:09	#6 (permalink)
Dion Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,207	“Jimmy Murphy: the giant of Munich became its final victim.” The person who wrote that needs to sort themselves out.

8th February 2012, 01:15	#7 (permalink)
Raven Blade Attention Whoring Common Crow Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Red till i'm dead.. Posts: 30,978	Not exactly our finest hour, was it? Overall our club behaves with a lot of class but we've had a few disgraceful moments down the years. We shouldn't forget what Jimmy Murphy and the others affected did for us. Things might not have turned out so successfully without their sacrifices. At least I feel like he's getting more recognition in recent times. His story deserves to be remembered forever.

8th February 2012, 01:39	#9 (permalink)
England1966 Cuckoo Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada, Posts: 1,709	on wiki there are a few things about him Jimmy Murphy (footballer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

8th February 2012, 02:03	#14 (permalink)
Sonny Feehan Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,512	I would like to hear the other side of this story if there is one, preferably from Tom Clare. I can vaguely remember claims that Johnny Berry and Jackie Blanchflower had been poorly treated and that United were not in general the most generous of clubs but it is hard to find precedents for and comparisons with such such a tragic and unique accident.

9th February 2012, 10:43	#19 (permalink)
Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 50,190	I'm not talking about making him and ambassador, why make him an ambassador? Surely, based on what Snow has said, all ties should be cut, and once he's outlived his usefulness it should be a handshake and goodbye.

9th February 2012, 11:04	#21 (permalink)
Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 50,190	So why do we bother having the likes of Charlton, Robson etc hanging round then? Personally I think a connection to those that have contributed significantly to the history of the club should be maintained if possible, and that they should be looked after, particularly if, like Murphy, they've shown great loyalty and are at retirement age.

9th February 2012, 11:09	#22 (permalink)
jojojo First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Watching - just in case Posts: 7,930	He was in his 60s when Busby stepped down. United, frankly, probably treated him the way most football clubs (and businesses in genera) treat their over 60s. His job disappeared, they treated him as semi-retired and squeezed him out. It's the era of the "gold watch and goodbye" school of retirement. Throw in the fact that the club and team were in post-Busby disarray (though actually Sir Matt was still there) and I'm sure we were getting a lot of things wrong. We have immense pride in our "family" club, the longevity of the manager, and yes, even the money it makes. But we had 6 managers in 15 years starting with McGuinness. SAF had to restructure the club, not just the team when he arrived. A lot of things went wrong and there's nothing we can do about that now. What we can do now is understand how our club was built, the importance of Jimmy Murphy and others in its history and making sure we do the right thing by them now. Whether that's a statue at Old Trafford, tickets for a final, a job on match day, or buying an ex-players medals for the museum.

9th February 2012, 11:31	#24 (permalink)
Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 50,190	I dont see what so hard to get, I think the club could have treated Murphy a bit better than they did towards the end of his career. As for the impact of Fergie looking over someones shoulder, well I dont think I've suggested that but Fergie had Busby.

9th February 2012, 11:39	#25 (permalink)
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysareus.com Posts: 39,438	I've always had the impression that he is held in the highest esteem at United.

9th February 2012, 11:44	#26 (permalink)
Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 50,190	Thats sort of the point, I've always had that impression too and to be fair, I think Gill and Fergie do, which is why I was sort of shocked that the powers that be at the time seem to have treated him a bit shabbily. EDIT: The last paragraph about Utd fans not recognising his contribution is obviously bollocks and makes me question how well informed the author is.

9th February 2012, 12:19	#29 (permalink)
Stretch First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Berbs...'Like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons from a deckchair' Posts: 5,176	Sad to see how the club treated him in his latter years. But I'm glad to see the club has honoured his contribution to the club posthumously. Popper has a point though, none of the recognition kept him and his family's mouths open in his latter years and that really is a tragedy.

9th February 2012, 16:15	#31 (permalink)
TomClare Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 518	Jimmy Murphy's contribution to Manchester United should never ever be forgotten, and certainly, should be moire recognised by the club than it ever has been. Without Jimmy Murphy, Sir Matt Busby could NEVER have achieved the success that he did. Talk to all the oldplayers and they will tell you that it was Jimmy who really moulded their careers. It was Jimmy who spent the hours, days and nights down on the trining ground with the youngsters - it was Jimmy who made them into the players that they were. the job that Jimmy did immediately after Munich was so immense, that even today, it's so hard to comprehend the hours he put in keeping the club on an even keel, and making sure that we didn't slide. Have no doubts about that - I can't think of any other person who could have done the job that Jimmy Murphy did. Was he treated badly by the club, I wouldn't say that he was, to be honest. When Sir Matt announced his retirement, Jimmy went as well, and he was given a 25K pay off (which was quite a fair bit of money back in 1958) as well asa smallpension. He came back in 1972, to work as a scout for Tommy Doc (and he unearthed the gem that was Steve Coppell) and stayed on with Sexton after the Doc was fired. Sadly, Jimmy was getting into his 70's by then and didn't draw a wage just his expenses. He didn't drive, and used to use a taxi to get to the club etc. However, Martin Edwards put a stop to him claiming his expenses, so that's when Jim sadly called it a day. The greatest sadness though was that Jimmy and Matt grew apart in their old age. Even when Jimmy was seriously ill, and eventually went into hospital, Matt didn't go to see him, which would have meant a lot. Five years ago, the Former Players Association approached the club to have the North Stand renamed "The Jimmy Murphy Stand" and they were turned down flat by them. For me it would have been wonderful recognition for the service Jimmy gave to United. Yes, there is a bust of Jimmy at Old Trafford, but it is in the Munich Room at the Museum - and people have to pay to get into that place to see it. That doesn't sit quite right with me - as doesn't the musueum - but that's another story. We have statues to Busby, to Law, Charlton and Best, and the North Stand has been renamed the SAF Stand too. Recognition that is so richly deserved. Even David Gill has his name on a plaque in the Munich tunnel -though why I will never know. There have been so many stalwarts down the years that have given their life's service to Manchester United - unsung heroes as it were - J.H. Davies, J.W. Gibson, Louis Rocca, Walter Crikmer, Les Olive, Harold Hardman, Jack Crompton, bert Whalley, Tom Curry, Billy Inglis, Ted dalton, Arthur Powell, just to mention a few. of course we also have such a litany of great players to add to that list as well. it is virtually impossible to come up with some material recognition at the stadium for all of those people - they are chronicled in the annals of United's great history, and it is up to us as fans, to keep that great history, and their names alive to the future generations that follow us. However, the case for Jimmy Murphy is a 'special' case, simply and purely because he was very 'special' and contributed so, so much, not only in the development of the club, but also in its salvation in 1958. For me it would be wonderful if one of the remaining stands could be named after him. With regards to Johnny Berry and Jackie Blanchflower, it is true that the club made them give up their club houses after Munich. Johnny Berry's went to Maurice Setters when he signed from West Brom, and I believe Jackie Blanchflower's went to Noel Cantwell when he signed from West Ham. sad state of affairs really - Roger Byrne's family stayed in their club house for 20 year's after the disaster.

9th February 2012, 16:27	#32 (permalink)
The Neviller First Team Sub Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 8,357	Surely the special treatment and recognition Jimmy Murphy deserved is precisely why the club named the most prestigious honour a young player at our club can receive after him?

9th February 2012, 16:45	#33 (permalink)
TomClare Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 518	no, the Young Player of the Year Award was done in recognition of his service to young players and is an iternal club thing. Jimmy deserves MUCH more recognition than that especially externally to the fans and general public. I would guarantee that there are a large number of United fans today who don't even have a clue who Jimmy Murphy was.

9th February 2012, 17:20	#35 (permalink)
Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 50,190	Exactly

9th February 2012, 18:40	#36 (permalink)
I'm always right Three-Headed Monkey Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mêlée Island Posts: 11,252	Tom doesn't think he wasn't treated so badly, so I'll take his word over poppers. In fact, I'm such a big fan of Tom that I'd take his word over Jesus'. Good points as ever Tom, I'm certain that the majority of my United supporting friends have no clue as to who Jimmy Murphy is.

9th February 2012, 20:24	#38 (permalink)
Ramshock poster of nonsense Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Four Green Fields Posts: 10,350	Still even with what Tom said I think Jimmy could have been treated better, Im shocked to hear that had no idea.

9th February 2012, 20:40	#40 (permalink)
Relevated First Team Sub Join Date: May 2011 Location: I predicted 5 results in a row succesfully and these were United vs QPR. Arse vs City. Chelsea vs Barca and Real Madrid vs Bayern and Barca vs Real. I even got Ronnie as the match winner but still I did not recieve an award. What a shame. Posts: 6,909	Why didnt Sir Matt visit Jim in hospital?