Wayne Rooney

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

He has plenty of players to thread a pass through, especially when he has players around him, making intelligent runs from deep (e.g. when he played Carrick in on Saturday) but this maybe hasn't happened quite as much as we would have hoped. A lack of goals from central midfield has been a problem all season, when you compare us with our nearest rivals.

There are passes available, of course, however not as many as when he had RvN or Saha looking to get behind their defence alot, which in turn led to Rooney having more space to play with. At the moment Rooney will often have to hold the ball up, waiting for midfielders or Tevez to run past. In doing this he has his back to goal. He does well at it, but it means he's not facing goal and getting in more situations where he can create something.

Quote:

As for knock-downs, Tevez is brilliant at holding the ball up and playing it short to feet. He's not gonna win many headers to send Rooney running off the shoulder of the last defender but there seems to be a consensus on here that this isn't his natural game anyway.

I dont mean them knocking it on for Rooney to run in behind, I mean knocking it back to Rooney to pick up in that gap between midfield and defence. Likewise, with Saha or RvN doing the job of holding up the ball at their feet, or running at defenders through the middle, stretching their defence and creating more space for Rooney.

GusHiddink · 10th March 2008, 17:24

*shakes head* deja vu

Dippersripper · 10th March 2008, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusHiddink

*shakes head* deja vu

Pogue Mahone · 10th March 2008, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

You have considered his goals in all competitions but just the number of games in the league ? Deliberate mis-representation just to showcase Rooney in better light?

13 goals in 30 games is a poor return for the main striker at a top club. 9 yellow cards in those 30 games.

I assumed the initial post referred to league goals, hence my error. Doesn't change much though. A goal every two games is respectable for any striker. Bearing in mind the injuries and loss of form, he's scored a decent amount of goals. It's actually 8 from 18 in the league, which is perfectly fine. Drogba has scored 5 from 11 in the league, is he having a crisis? Berbatov is 12 from 27 and we all know how highly he is rated in the caf.

And what the fuck has yellow cards got to do with anything? Are you hoping for the FIFA fair-play trophy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

And he also gets points for Ronaldo's brilliance ?

Whats next - he scored the penalty in that game? The way you are going, does it really matter if its an opposition player or a United player? Rooney can still take the credit.

Yup. That's two mistakes in my initial post. D'oh. If it's any excuse I'm monstrously hungover after my stag weeekend but yeah, I'll take that one on the chin

The point about a lack of runs from midfield stands though.

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusHiddink

*shakes head* deja vu

Aye, yeah, this was what many people feared at the start of the season.

Are you of the opinion that this season has validated those concerns, or that this is just a "knee-jerk" reaction? Just wondering cos I generally respect your opinion, for some reason.

Pogue Mahone · 10th March 2008, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

There are passes available, of course, however not as many as when he had RvN or Saha looking to get behind their defence alot, which in turn led to Rooney having more space to play with. At the moment Rooney will often have to hold the ball up, waiting for midfielders or Tevez to run past. In doing this he has his back to goal. He does well at it, but it means he's not facing goal and getting in more situations where he can create something.

I dont mean them knocking it on for Rooney to run in behind, I mean knocking it back to Rooney to pick up in that gap between midfield and defence. Likewise, with Saha or RvN doing the job of holding up the ball at their feet, or running at defenders through the middle, stretching their defence and creating more space for Rooney.

This is all very plausible but it completely ignores the fact that Rooney had an almost identical slump in form in the first-half of last season, when he was playing alongside Saha and also recovering from a long-term serious injury. He'll come good again, wait and see.

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

This is all very plausible but it completely ignores the fact that Rooney had an almost identical slump in form in the first-half of last season, when he was playing alongside Saha and also recovering from a long-term serious injury. He'll come good again, wait and see.

From what I remember, he had a bit of a goal scoring drought but was playing well and creating goals and chances. I also seem to remember that it was after Saha got injured, at least for part of it.

I dont know. I dont want to get into a when he was playing good/bad debate. It'll go around in circles. I think most people would agree that with RvN he played fantastic, and yet in those seasons his goal scoring record wasnt as good as this season or last season.

Instant Karma · 10th March 2008, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

The point about a lack of runs from midfield stands though.

Thats the point I have been making since the last season. Our central midfielders rarely make runs into the box, don't set up chances and don't score goals. They just sit in front of the defence and pass 5 yards up the field to Rooney/ Ronaldo/ Tevez and expect them to both create and score every goal. Or they play hollywood long balls that we generally have no chance of winning without Saha.

Sam#1 · 10th March 2008, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

From what I remember, he had a bit of a goal scoring drought but was playing well and creating goals and chances. I also seem to remember that it was after Saha got injured, at least for part of it.

He went through a phase where he couldn't buy a goal, and people were even calling for him to be dropped for England. It ended with the hat-trick vs Bolton.

Saha was definatly playing at the time.

Also, I can't remember the stats, but didn't he fail to score in like the last 15 League games of last season ? Or something like that ? Please note, I could be wrong, I'm just sure I remember reading that somewhere.

Pogue Mahone · 10th March 2008, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Thats the point I have been making since the last season. Our midfielders rarely make runs into the box, don't set up chances and don't score goals. They just sit in front of the defence and pass 5 yards up the field to Rooney/ Ronaldo/ Tevez and expect them to both create and score every goal. Or they play hollywood long balls that we generally have no chance of winning without Saha.

Yup. Been bugging me all season. Ironically, the much-maligned Darren Fletcher seems the most willing to get into the box nowadays. For all the complaints about our strikers being poor in the air, we could do with more than two or three players in the box, every time a cross comes in.

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Thats the point I have been making since the last season. Our central midfielders rarely make runs into the box, don't set up chances and don't score goals. They just sit in front of the defence and pass 5 yards up the field to Rooney/ Ronaldo/ Tevez and expect them to both create and score every goal. Or they play hollywood long balls that we generally have no chance of winning without Saha.

I agree to an extent. Although, last season our centre midfield was amazing so I dont think we can complain. But yeah, without someone whose looking to run in behind and stretch their defence then the middle can get a bit congested.

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

He went through a phase where he couldn't buy a goal, and people were even calling for him to be dropped for England. It ended with the hat-trick vs Bolton.

Saha was definatly playing at the time.

Also, I can't remember the stats, but didn't he fail to score in like the last 15 League games of last season ? Or something like that ? Please note, I could be wrong, I'm just sure I remember reading that somewhere.

Youre right about the early goal drought, my bad. But he was still playing great for the most part. I remember him linking up for that Solskjaer goal at Wigan when everyone was slagging him off for not scoring, and he put a great cross in for Saha in the same game.

But youre wrong about the end of the season. He scored against Everton at the tail end of the season.

Instant Karma · 10th March 2008, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

Although, last season our centre midfield was amazing so I dont think we can complain.

Our central midfield last season was about the same as this season. Rooney was in much better form and others (Saha, Ole, Larsson, Park, Vidic) contributed to the goals. Ronaldo's goal scoring form covered for the lack of goals from midfield and we won which made our central midfield look better.

This season he is having to cover for the lack of goals from strikers and central midfield. To be fair, he has managed to do it with assistance for Tevez and we are still in the hunt for the title. Hopefully the others will step up now as Ronaldo and Tevez seem to be running on empty after carrying the team so far into the season.

Pogue Mahone · 10th March 2008, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

But youre wrong about the end of the season. He scored against Everton at the tail end of the season.

He was fantastic at the end of last season. Just like he's gonna be fantastic at the end of this season. You don't have to have followed his career very long to see that he gets better and better the more games he plays.

If he can stay fit for the rest of this season we'll see him back at his very best, mark my words.

sammsky1 · 10th March 2008, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Jesus Christ. Is this the knee-jerk thread of the centutury or what?

First of all, re being prolific, he might have only scored 13 goals. But he's only played 19 league games. That's hardly the strike-rate of a Dirk fucking Kuyt.

Great point. And he scored 20+ last season. Well done for killing this myth! Wouild love to see the assists and the tackling stats too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

None of this is any sort of crisis though. He just needs to stay fit for 10 or more games in a row, slot a few goals and then the flood-gates will open.

You are a scholar sir. The start of this season must have been so frustrating. Earlier this season when we were winning every game 4-0, Rooney was on fire. He will start scoring again soon. But its not as though he is in a rut ... and the side does not need the goals (except on sat would have been handy).

Rooney needs to play within a full 4some striker compliment a la Cole/Yorke/Solskjaer/Sheringham. This season he is having to bear the physical responsibility of playing in a department virtually 2 strikers short.
People are confusing his role with that of what the unfortunate Saha should be providing. If Saha had been contributing, this debate does not occur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Despite all this, he still has a huge influence on every game he plays in, still makes things happen around him, still scores goals, still creates goals and remains in the top 2 or 3 most important players currently representing Manchester United Football Club.

Despite Ronaldo's brilliance this season, I would not swap anyone for Rooney. My Roy of the Fucking Rovers. It is his movement and conviction that wins possesion and provides the ball to give Ronaldo the space to dazzle.

Very simple reality: No Rooney = No Ronaldo magic season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Unbelievable that people are ... trying to imply that this crisis is down to SAF not knowing how to get the best of a young footballer. I mean, FFS, how little faith do you cnuts actually have in our manager?

Cunts the lot of them and they can fuck off back to Chav land. I heard a story earlier this year that Rooney was studying for the GCSE's he missed as a kid. I told everyone I knew about that, felt so proud that he played for MUFC, that SAF was having this sort of impact on him. SAF is turning him into the perfect role model, the ultimate footballer and our future captain. I love this boy as I have done Robson, Cantona, Keane and Neville before him.

Rooney is on track, indeed he has contributed way beyond expectation so far. And when he does have an off day, I have no worries. I know his heart and his passion are still in the right place and that he will find ways to put it right.

Rooney = Born to play for United.

Sam#1 · 10th March 2008, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

Youre right about the early goal drought, my bad. But he was still playing great for the most part. I remember him linking up for that Solskjaer goal at Wigan when everyone was slagging him off for not scoring, and he put a great cross in for Saha in the same game.

But youre wrong about the end of the season. He scored against Everton at the tail end of the season.

Aye, that is true.

But I'm sure he went on some kind of goal drought near the end of the season.

Dippersripper · 10th March 2008, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Aye, that is true.

But I'm sure he went on some kind of goal drought near the end of the season.

You are wrong. He scored in almost every game at the end of season. Some compared his form to Cantona's during that "I'd love it if we beat them" season.

roon_ronnie · 10th March 2008, 18:09

it's very sad to hear people talk this way about rooney.

who gives a fuck if he doesnt score as much as ruud.
this guy gives 101% everytime he plays for us, in doing so he's had horrific injuries and guess what? each time he returns, he plays with the same passion, hunger and never ending desire.
When he broke his foot before the world cup, we were 3-0 down at chelsea, yet he still had the will and desire to try and rescue the game, with the belief that "we never give up". name another united player that does that... none! (not even ronaldo)

Fine. he may not be the best finisher, but FFS his abilty to read and dictate the pace of our game IMO is second only to scholesy.

People said the same thing about him last season, shifting the praise over to ronaldo (deservedly so), but come on they had the same amount of goals, and almost the same assissts.

This season, the best comparison would be drogba. they've both been in and out, and in total rooney's had 13 goals and 8 assissts(highest united player), to drogba 10 goals and little or no assists. how come no one is calling for drogba's balls?

Get off his dick, he's trying his best to get sharp, and reading these unfair comments certainly wont help him!

Sam#1 · 10th March 2008, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

You are wrong. He scored in almost every game at the end of season. Some compared his form to Cantona's during that "I'd love it if we beat them" season.

Ok, very sorry, my bad.

I must have dreamt it or something.

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Aye, that is true.

But I'm sure he went on some kind of goal drought near the end of the season.

Yes indeed, when we were without Saha, Solksjaer and Larsson to lead the line.

Utd heap · 10th March 2008, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Ok, very sorry, my bad.

I must have dreamt it or something.

Nightmare that is.
My dreams consist of the '96 FA Cup final being replicated by Rooney, and Reina.

Feed Me · 10th March 2008, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Jesus Christ. Is this the knee-jerk thread of the centutury or what?

First of all, re being prolific, he might have only scored 13 goals. But he's only played 19 league games. That's hardly the strike-rate of a Dirk fucking Kuyt. Take into account two serious injuries and the inevitable loss of form this can cause, he's actually picking up his fair share of goals, instinctive and otherwise. The timing of these injuries has also been really, really unfortunate, both of them happening at a time when he was starting to hit form. Obviously, this has psychological consequences and he is losing that all-important goal-scoring attribute, which is self-belief. This makes him think too much in front of goal and over-elaborate on chances he would usually score in his sleep.

None of this is any sort of crisis though. He just needs to stay fit for 10 or more games in a row, slot a few goals and then the flood-gates will open.

Second of all, about him "not being able to come deep". This shows an amazing ability to ignore the evidence of your own eyes. He come deep all the fucking time. People keep bleating about him never running at defenders like he used, never picking the ball up in the hole and playing his team-mates in or never shooting from range. He does all of these things, in every single game he plays in. Unfortunately, for all of the reasons discussed above, it's just not coming off for him at the moment and he's not having a vintage season.

Despite all this, he still has a huge influence on every game he plays in, still makes things happen around him, still scores goals, still creates goals and remains in the top 2 or 3 most important players currently representing Manchester United Football Club. If that doesn't tell you everything you know about how good a player he is and how he continues to improve and develop every aspect of his game, then I don't know what does.

Two serious, long-term injuries = an up and down season for any player, no matter how good. Unbelievable that people are turning this into some sort of fundamental crisis in his development as a footballer or, even worse, trying to imply that this crisis is down to SAF not knowing how to get the best of a young footballer. I mean, FFS, how little faith do you cnuts actually have in our manager?

It is no knee jerk from me. I have expressed reservations about Wayne's form for a while.

There is a definite line between grilling a player unduly and offering an observation based on indifferent form. Rooney has not scaled the heights he had looked set to. He has come no where near.

Dippersripper · 10th March 2008, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Ok, very sorry, my bad.

I must have dreamt it or something.

That must be the case.

Rowem · 10th March 2008, 18:22

In fairness to Sam, Rooney was scoring freely in the cup competitions, just wasnt bagging many in the league for whatever reason.

Pogue Mahone · 10th March 2008, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

You are wrong. He scored in almost every game at the end of season. Some compared his form to Cantona's during that "I'd love it if we beat them" season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

Yes indeed, when we were without Saha, Solksjaer and Larsson to lead the line.

Something here just doesn't compute

10th March 2008, 17:24	#42 (permalink)
GusHiddink Alex Ferguson will not win another champions league for this club - Gus Hiddink 29/05/2007 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the berbatov thread trying to push the deal through Posts: 5,183	shakes head deja vu

10th March 2008, 18:09	#58 (permalink)
roon_ronnie Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 729	it's very sad to hear people talk this way about rooney. who gives a fuck if he doesnt score as much as ruud. this guy gives 101% everytime he plays for us, in doing so he's had horrific injuries and guess what? each time he returns, he plays with the same passion, hunger and never ending desire. When he broke his foot before the world cup, we were 3-0 down at chelsea, yet he still had the will and desire to try and rescue the game, with the belief that "we never give up". name another united player that does that... none! (not even ronaldo) Fine. he may not be the best finisher, but FFS his abilty to read and dictate the pace of our game IMO is second only to scholesy. People said the same thing about him last season, shifting the praise over to ronaldo (deservedly so), but come on they had the same amount of goals, and almost the same assissts. This season, the best comparison would be drogba. they've both been in and out, and in total rooney's had 13 goals and 8 assissts(highest united player), to drogba 10 goals and little or no assists. how come no one is calling for drogba's balls? Get off his dick, he's trying his best to get sharp, and reading these unfair comments certainly wont help him!

10th March 2008, 18:22	#64 (permalink)
Rowem Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,725	In fairness to Sam, Rooney was scoring freely in the cup competitions, just wasnt bagging many in the league for whatever reason.