Wayne Rooney

Raven_Blade · 13th March 2008, 12:06

We still talking about Rooney. Dont worry the boy is class and he will soon be back to his best.

Pogue Mahone · 13th March 2008, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Your post highlights the double standards in judging Rooney and Ronaldo's performances.

A 12 goal, 15 assist season from a winger and being on the PFA team of year is mediocre ? And you are equating it to a 13 goal season as a main striker and being nowhere close to PFA team of the year ?

Dunno what the PFA team of the year has to do with the price of chips. Rooney is having a mediocre season (so far) by his own high standards, as did Ronaldo, by his own high standards, in 05/06.

The only person with double standards about these two players is you, I'm afraid. But I don't really need to point this out, cause it's blatantly obvious to every other cnut in this thread.

Pogue Mahone · 13th March 2008, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Personally, i think the 'out of position' thing is a cover up myself. Anyone who watches us play a string of say, 10 games will clearly see that Rooney does not spend 90 mins on the defenders shoulder fighting for headers. He gets involved with the link play just as often as Tevez does, and to be honest, there isn't much between the two of them in terms of positioning.

For me, Rooney is a 'striker', and generally, somewhere within the final third is his 'right position'. I think the biggest issue with him is whether he has a partner or not, not so much whether that partner is 6ft tall. When he has to play alone he doesn't look at his best, but as long as there are two players upfront, and he's one of them, he should be somewhere near his best i'd say.

Another good post from K14. Good to have you back, mate

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Another good post from K14. Good to have you back, mate

Gracias, good to be back.

FlawlessThaw · 13th March 2008, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Personally, i think the 'out of position' thing is a cover up myself. Anyone who watches us play a string of say, 10 games will clearly see that Rooney does not spend 90 mins on the defenders shoulder fighting for headers. He gets involved with the link play just as often as Tevez does, and to be honest, there isn't much between the two of them in terms of positioning.

For me, Rooney is a 'striker', and generally, somewhere within the final third is his 'right position'. I think the biggest issue with him is whether he has a partner or not, not so much whether that partner is 6ft tall. When he has to play alone he doesn't look at his best, but as long as there are two players upfront, and he's one of them, he should be somewhere near his best i'd say.

Spot on. Rooney in my opinion can play alongside anyone, the main point however is that he generally has to have support. Whenever he has played up front for England he's always lacked support he's needed. At United largely thanks to Ronaldo and Giggs he's had the support he's generally needed.

sammsky1 · 13th March 2008, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlawlessThaw

Spot on. Rooney in my opinion can play alongside anyone, the main point however is that he generally has to have support. Whenever he has played up front for England he's always lacked support he's needed. At United largely thanks to Ronaldo and Giggs he's had the support he's generally needed.

United > England

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 13th March 2008, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Gracias, good to be back.

Weclome back Dogg. This place has been worse off without you.

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Weclome back Dogg. This place has been worse off without you.

Thanks Chief.

Kevin · 13th March 2008, 12:54

Welcome back K14, great poster.

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Welcome back K14, great poster.

Mucho gracias Kev

RedDevilCanuck · 13th March 2008, 12:58

Basically his finishing this season has been poor, but everything else in his game has been amazing. His passing the last couple games has been outstanding but nobody seems to give Rooney credit for his playmaking abilities.

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDevilCanuck

Basically his finishing this season has been poor, but everything else in his game has been amazing. His passing the last couple games has been outstanding but nobody seems to give Rooney credit for his playmaking abilities.

Not entirely true. His ability to consistently control and pass has been a bit ropey this season too.

sincher · 13th March 2008, 13:04

Ray Nwooney

acnumber9 · 13th March 2008, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Jesus Christ. Is this the knee-jerk thread of the centutury or what?

First of all, re being prolific, he might have only scored 13 goals. But he's only played 19 league games. That's hardly the strike-rate of a Dirk fucking Kuyt. Take into account two serious injuries and the inevitable loss of form this can cause, he's actually picking up his fair share of goals, instinctive and otherwise. The timing of these injuries has also been really, really unfortunate, both of them happening at a time when he was starting to hit form. Obviously, this has psychological consequences and he is losing that all-important goal-scoring attribute, which is self-belief. This makes him think too much in front of goal and over-elaborate on chances he would usually score in his sleep.

None of this is any sort of crisis though. He just needs to stay fit for 10 or more games in a row, slot a few goals and then the flood-gates will open.

Second of all, about him "not being able to come deep". This shows an amazing ability to ignore the evidence of your own eyes. He come deep all the fucking time. People keep bleating about him never running at defenders like he used, never picking the ball up in the hole and playing his team-mates in or never shooting from range. He does all of these things, in every single game he plays in. Unfortunately, for all of the reasons discussed above, it's just not coming off for him at the moment and he's not having a vintage season.
Despite all this, he still has a huge influence on every game he plays in, still makes things happen around him, still scores goals, still creates goals and remains in the top 2 or 3 most important players currently representing Manchester United Football Club. If that doesn't tell you everything you know about how good a player he is and how he continues to improve and develop every aspect of his game, then I don't know what does.

Two serious, long-term injuries = an up and down season for any player, no matter how good. Unbelievable that people are turning this into some sort of fundamental crisis in his development as a footballer or, even worse, trying to imply that this crisis is down to SAF not knowing how to get the best of a young footballer. I mean, FFS, how little faith do you cnuts actually have in our manager?

I agree with the bit in bold 100%. He is still more than able to drop deep and collect the ball, he and Tevez interchange well and when both our in form it works superbly. At the moment Rooney is well off his game. He has alway struggled to regain sharpness aftera spell out injured and this season has been like that for him. Remember the form he was in beofre he hurt his ankle in training? He was scoring plenty of goals. He looks a little unfit to me at the minute. WE need him to find his true form again, soon.

Sam#1 · 13th March 2008, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Not entirely true. His ability to consistently control and pass has been a bit ropey this season too.

I agree with that.

But this has been a problem for over a year now, it has nothing to do with where he is playing this season, it's obviously a wider issue.

Saying that, I'm 100% confident he'll come good, he's just to damn good not to.

Pogue Mahone · 13th March 2008, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Not entirely true. His ability to consistently control and pass has been a bit ropey this season too.

Not consistently, no, but his vision and eye for a clever pass is still right up there with the very best in the league.

I would even take issue with the poor finishing criticism. He hasn't had many clear-cut openings for a little while now. Against Pompy he only fluffed his best chance because of a superb bit of cover by Campbell. It ain't easy dribbling round a keeper as big and quick as David James and he managed that part with ease.

His finishing hasn't been as lethal as it could be but it's not as though he's missing sitters, week in, week out. He just needs a goal or two to get right back in the groove and all the begrudgers will shut their cake-holes. I fancy him to make a start this very weekend.

sincher · 13th March 2008, 13:08

We could do with a striker who gets himself into positions to score more often - that's probably more the problem than anyone's poor finishing.

Mind you, Ronaldo fills that gap pretty well.

Dippersripper · 13th March 2008, 13:13

Why don't we play Ronaldo upfront then? I'm pretty sure he can do a better job than Rooney as a striker as he is taller and a better header of the ball.

acnumber9 · 13th March 2008, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Not consistently, no, but his vision and eye for a clever pass is still right up there with the very best in the league.

I would even take issue with the poor finishing criticism. He hasn't had many clear-cut openings for a little while now. Against Pompy he only fluffed his best chance because of a superb bit of cover by Campbell. It ain't easy dribbling round a keeper as big and quick as David James and he managed that part with ease.
His finishing hasn't been as lethal as it could be but it's not as though he's missing sitters, week in, week out. He just needs a goal or two to get right back in the groove and all the begrudgers will shut their cake-holes. I fancy him to make a start this very weekend.

The problem for me there is that he seemed to lack the confidence to just slot it past the keeper as he should've. I felt he was trying to make the opportunity unmissable.

Dippersripper · 13th March 2008, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Pretty sure Drogba and McCarthy were better. But Rooney ended the season quite well.

I was talking about 05-06 season when Rooney finished PFA young player of the year.

ben_foster · 13th March 2008, 13:15

the thing with rooney is that he doesnt have a best position! he is an attacker yeah but i dont think he is any better or worse wether he playes left, up top right or in the hole.

some people want him to be a centre forward......he isnt going to be as he isnt a poacher and cant frankly his movement when up top is really poor. awful infact. plus his willingness to work will mean he often spends time running back

others want him to play in the hole, which personally i think is his best position with saha up top. however people wanting to see him in the hole want him to be like cantona or berbatov....again he cant be as he doesnt possess the flair of theat kind of player.

also....personally......as a player to play off the front man....i think tevez is better

no doubt rooney is class but its coming to the point now where people are starting to doubt it and he needs to reaffirme it.....by scoring important matchwinning goals....some which he has done rarley for us

i also think he likes being top man and there was a bit of a rivalery between him and ronaldo for that.....ronaldo took over last year and blitzed it this year and rooney is well and truley in the shade.

one thing is for certain he scores in patches.....lets hope the run in is one of those patches

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Not consistently, no, but his vision and eye for a clever pass is still right up there with the very best in the league.

I would even take issue with the poor finishing criticism. He hasn't had many clear-cut openings for a little while now. Against Pompy he only fluffed his best chance because of a superb bit of cover by Campbell. It ain't easy dribbling round a keeper as big and quick as David James and he managed that part with ease.

His finishing hasn't been as lethal as it could be but it's not as though he's missing sitters, week in, week out. He just needs a goal or two to get right back in the groove and all the begrudgers will shut their cake-holes. I fancy him to make a start this very weekend.

I wouldn't say he's missing 'sitters' as such, but he tends to be getting nose-bleeds in front of goal, trying to either pass when he should shoot, or chip the keeper, regardless of whether he's off his line or not. He just doesn't seem confident in front of goal at the moment i guess, very indecisive.

I agree that his vision is still up there with the best, he's a creative player of course, although at the moment, much of this is just 'visions', the actual ratio of vision to manifestation isn't that great. I do worry about him a bit at the moment. Nowadays, obviously being the english hero, it seems the commentators try to make excuses for him every match, with stuff like 'that's why he's Wayne Rooney, how many people will chase back like that', etc. In the long run, it isn't enough for me. I'd just rather he scored goals, or his poor touch didn't cause him to lose posession in the first place so that he has to chase the player back 30-40 yards. I'd rather he just brought it down and got credit for the control as opposed to the chase.

Hopefully, with a Benzema or whoever it may be, he'll explode into life next season and well, stay exploded, not a 4 game spell that justifies poorer form for the rest of the season on the basis of a suspension in October or a 3 week lay-off in September.

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

I was talking about 05-06 season when Rooney finished PFA young player of the year.

Fair enough, he was definetly up there with Ruud and Henry that season anyway. Didn't Henry win the overall player of the year?

Dippersripper · 13th March 2008, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Fair enough, he was definetly up there with Ruud and Henry that season anyway. Didn't Henry win the overall player of the year?

No, Stevie Me won it. Ruud was nowhere near at his best that season even though he scored a lot of goals. Henry was awesome though. Should have won it ahead of gerrard. Rooney was the second best IMO.

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

No, Stevie Me won it. Ruud was nowhere near at his best that season even though he scored a lot of goals. Henry was awesome though. Should have won it ahead of gerrard. Rooney was the second best IMO.

Yea, i remember now. I thought it was ridiculous that Gerrard won it. Rooney was particularly good in the first half of that season i recall.

Dippersripper · 13th March 2008, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Yea, i remember now. I thought it was ridiculous that Gerrard won it. Rooney was particularly good in the first half of that season i recall.

He ended the season well too. He ripped Arsenal and Newcastle apart in march(?) when he was the player of the month.

kanchelskis14 · 13th March 2008, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

He ended the season well too. He ripped Arsenal and Newcastle apart in march(?) when he was the player of the month.

I remember him going through a lean spell in the middle of the season where he didn't score for about 12 games. And in the second half of the season, our other players helped him out a bit more. Ronaldo had what was his then typical second half of the season surge, and Saha was knocking them in too.

Rooney does look to be almost a differen player altogether from those days though, i must say.

ben_foster · 13th March 2008, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

I wouldn't say he's missing 'sitters' as such, but he tends to be getting nose-bleeds in front of goal, trying to either pass when he should shoot, or chip the keeper, regardless of whether he's off his line or not. He just doesn't seem confident in front of goal at the moment i guess, very indecisive.

I agree that his vision is still up there with the best, he's a creative player of course, although at the moment, much of this is just 'visions', the actual ratio of vision to manifestation isn't that great. I do worry about him a bit at the moment.

13th March 2008, 12:06	#121 (permalink)
Raven_Blade Attention Whoring Common Crow Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Man Utd Will Never Die! Posts: 17,184	We still talking about Rooney. Dont worry the boy is class and he will soon be back to his best.

13th March 2008, 12:54	#129 (permalink)
Kevin Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,544	Welcome back K14, great poster.

13th March 2008, 12:58	#131 (permalink)
RedDevilCanuck Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Decent mix between America and Britain. Posts: 1,253	Basically his finishing this season has been poor, but everything else in his game has been amazing. His passing the last couple games has been outstanding but nobody seems to give Rooney credit for his playmaking abilities.

13th March 2008, 13:04	#133 (permalink)
sincher Les jeux sont Fait Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: YSC Posts: 13,811	Ray Nwooney

13th March 2008, 13:08	#137 (permalink)
sincher Les jeux sont Fait Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: YSC Posts: 13,811	We could do with a striker who gets himself into positions to score more often - that's probably more the problem than anyone's poor finishing. Mind you, Ronaldo fills that gap pretty well.

13th March 2008, 13:13	#138 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: His first touch lets him down, But then he bends it round, inch perfectly, And look who’s on the end of it, Wayne Rooney Posts: 8,444	Why don't we play Ronaldo upfront then? I'm pretty sure he can do a better job than Rooney as a striker as he is taller and a better header of the ball.

13th March 2008, 13:15	#141 (permalink)
ben_foster On Loan to Watford Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 558	the thing with rooney is that he doesnt have a best position! he is an attacker yeah but i dont think he is any better or worse wether he playes left, up top right or in the hole. some people want him to be a centre forward......he isnt going to be as he isnt a poacher and cant frankly his movement when up top is really poor. awful infact. plus his willingness to work will mean he often spends time running back others want him to play in the hole, which personally i think is his best position with saha up top. however people wanting to see him in the hole want him to be like cantona or berbatov....again he cant be as he doesnt possess the flair of theat kind of player. also....personally......as a player to play off the front man....i think tevez is better no doubt rooney is class but its coming to the point now where people are starting to doubt it and he needs to reaffirme it.....by scoring important matchwinning goals....some which he has done rarley for us i also think he likes being top man and there was a bit of a rivalery between him and ronaldo for that.....ronaldo took over last year and blitzed it this year and rooney is well and truley in the shade. one thing is for certain he scores in patches.....lets hope the run in is one of those patches