Wayne Rooney

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

Rooney hasn't missed chance after chance. His scoring rate has actually gone up.

I'm not talking about when RvN was here, I am talking about the team we now have and currently I don't want a RvN type striker because it would fuck up our whole team structure. The movement we had on Saturday was wonderful to watch and we are also moving into form at just the right time of year. I think you are looking for problems where they don't really exist.

The only problem is that Rooney is missing a lot of chances this season. I refuse to believe that people cannot see this.

van Nistelrooy in his prime, would have been fine in this system. People write him off as a one-dimensional footballer, but at his prime he was anything but...

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 12:29

I can't agree, Ruud would not work in this system we play. He doesn't have enough to his game.

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

He has 13 in 33 this season which is 0.39...

A more relevant statistic would be his chance conversion rate.

No it wouldn't neccesarily. It could just mean that he gets difficult chances that lesser players would never even have. The chip over the top that he brought down magnificantly and only luck (rather than a poor strike) prevented from being a goal or that penalty that wasn't awarded in the first few minutes for example.

We could do with a replacement for Saha since it seems he will never be fit but we don't need a new player because of anything Rooney is doing wrong.

jojojo · 26th March 2008, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

Everton F.C.
2002–03 0.22 goals per game
2003–04 0.23 goals per game
Manchester United
2004–05 0.4 goals per game
2006–07 0.42 goals per game
2007–08 0.43 goals per game

So not declining then. Rather the opposite if anything.

And more assists every year as well.

It's a crisis of expectations - score 3 on your debut and people get their Essien calculators out and plan for at least hundred goals per season. Plus anyone who gets badged as the White Pele and England's saviour is in for a rough ride.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 26th March 2008, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

I can't agree, Ruud would not work in this system we play. He doesn't have enough to his game.

That's probably rubbish.

van Nistelrooy was/is one of the best strikers in the world. A goalscoring phenomenon, and a superb footballer.

Great footballers can adopt to any system.

Saying that, Ruud is yesterday's news. He's gone. He wanted to feck off, so good luck to him. We have moved on, and are a better side now, than when he was here.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

I can't agree, Ruud would not work in this system we play. He doesn't have enough to his game.

We will have to agree to disagree. Maybe your view is tainted by his shit attitude of the last two seasons. But his first 2 seasons at the club, he was dynamic, quick, strong and a class finisher. He was excellent in holding the ball up and was different to our other strikers in that he liked to go in behind the backline.

To say that a 27 year old Ruud van Nistelrooy would not work in our team now is nonsensical in my opinion. Players who score 150 in 219 games at the top level can fit in any team. The moment we start to think otherwise - we become Arsenal!

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

The only problem is that Rooney is missing a lot of chances this season. I refuse to believe that people cannot see this.

van Nistelrooy in his prime, would have been fine in this system. People write him off as a one-dimensional footballer, but at his prime he was anything but...

Yet his rate of scoring remains the same despite injuries. Funny that.

RvN in his prime was a brilliant striker but not one who would fit our current system. I loved RvN but I love our current play/system more.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 26th March 2008, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

and was different to our other strikers in that he liked to go in behind the backline.

Eh, Rooney loves to use the space behind the backline!

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

That's probably rubbish.

van Nistelrooy was/is one of the best strikers in the world. A goalscoring phenomenon, and a superb footballer.

Great footballers can adopt to any system.

Saying that, Ruud is yesterday's news. He's gone. He wanted to feck off, so good luck to him. We have moved on, and are a better side now, than when he was here.

I don't think he would have worked that well in the current system. RvN was a brillant striker but he really needed the whole attack to be based around supplying him, which is fair enough and nowt wrong with it as a system of play but I much prefer how we play now and I don't think RvN at his peak would have worked as well in this team or if he did the team wouldn't work as well as a whole.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

Yet his rate of scoring remains the same despite injuries. Funny that.

RvN in his prime was a brilliant striker but not one who would fit our current system. I loved RvN but I love our current play/system more.

You are taking too much of a balck and white point of view. The new system has not arisen exclusively because van Nistelrooy left the club. There was a general progression. How can we make assertions like van Nistelrooy made us one dimensional and he is one of the reasons we played a system we did not like? People are forgetting that we have spent a fortune in buying players like Nani, Anderson, Tevez and Carrick since Ruud left and this has transformed our team. Yet the one position we have yet to fill is the one left by Ruud.

We would have been EVEN better off now if Ruud had not gotten all arsey.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Eh, Rooney loves to use the space behind the backline!

Yeah, but he likes to drop off the front line and link the midfield with the striker.

Rooney and van Nistelrooy complimented each other very nicely.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 26th March 2008, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

I don't think he would have worked that well in the current system. RvN was a brillant striker but he really needed the whole attack to be based around supplying him, which is fair enough and nowt wrong with it as a system of play but I much prefer how we play now and I don't think RvN at his peak would have worked as well in this team or if he did the team wouldn't work as well as a whole.

As I said, I believe great footballers can adopt to any system, and I think Ruud could have adopted to our current system.

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

I don't think he would have worked that well in the current system. RvN was a brillant striker but he really needed the whole attack to be based around supplying him, which is fair enough and nowt wrong with it as a system of play but I much prefer how we play now and I don't think RvN at his peak would have worked as well in this team or if he did the team wouldn't work as well as a whole.

Exactly.

How many of Ruud's goals came from the right foot of Beckham ?

The attack was based around Ruud. We'd feed the ball to Beckham or Giggs, who'd cross it in, and there would be Ruud for the tap in. We simply don't play that game anymore.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 26th March 2008, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

We would have been EVEN better off now if Ruud had not gotten all arsey.

That's just as much speculation as for those saying Ruud wouldn't not have fitted into our system.

Ruud's gone. He wanted out of Manchester United. He was a great player for us, a goalscoring legend. But, a bit of a cnut for wanting to leave.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Exactly.

How many of Ruud's goals came from the right foot of Beckham ?

The attack was based around Ruud. We'd feed the ball to Beckham or Giggs, who'd cross it in, and there would be Ruud for the tap in. We simply don't play that game anymore.

But you talk as though there is a limit on how many chances we create. We create more than enough chances to service a striker like Ruud and still spread chances around the team.

If Ruud was in the current team it would look something like this:

Ronaldo-Tevez-Rooney
----van Nistelrooy----

That would still allow plenty of scope for fluidity with one of the line of three being able to join van Nistelrooy and the other two switching with one another etc.

Those who are proponents of us buying Berbatov or Benzema (pretty much everyone) must realise that these are two out and out forwards as well.

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

You are taking too much of a balck and white point of view. The new system has not arisen exclusively because van Nistelrooy left the club. There was a general progression. How can we make assertions like van Nistelrooy made us one dimensional and he is one of the reasons we played a system we did not like? People are forgetting that we have spent a fortune in buying players like Nani, Anderson, Tevez and Carrick since Ruud left and this has transformed our team. Yet the one position we have yet to fill is the one left by Ruud.

We would have been EVEN better off now if Ruud had not gotten all arsey.

I never said that our new system arose from RvN leaving although I suppose indirectly it did. I never made any assertions about how many dimensions RvN had. I do however think that, fantastic player though he was and is, he wouldn't suit our style of play now. I therefore don't want a player like him to replace Saha.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

That's just as much speculation as for those saying Ruud wouldn't not have fitted into our system.

Ruud's gone. He wanted out of Manchester United. He was a great player for us, a goalscoring legend. But, a bit of a cnut for wanting to leave.

I think my speculation is a pretty safe one.

We need one more striker in our current squad. RvN would be guaranteed goals. I am only creating a hypothetical debate.. makes things more interesting.

One of my all time favourites is Ruud - but tainted by his attitude at the end.

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

As I said, I believe great footballers can adopt to any system, and I think Ruud could have adopted to our current system.

I take your point but I'm not convinced that RvN was the adapting type and all players have limitations and operate best in different circumstances.

I think RvN is (or at least was) a world class striker BTW.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

I never said that our new system arose from RvN leaving although I suppose indirectly it did. I never made any assertions about how many dimensions RvN had. I do however think that, fantastic player though he was and is, he wouldn't suit our style of play now. I therefore don't want a player like him to replace Saha.

I can see where you are coming from to be honest. I am playing Devil's Advocate a little bit as I think he is a different player to our system. That said, a world class goalscorer could only thrive in this environment.

Saha's continual injury problems have rendered him pretty much useless.

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Exactly.

How many of Ruud's goals came from the right foot of Beckham ?

The attack was based around Ruud. We'd feed the ball to Beckham or Giggs, who'd cross it in, and there would be Ruud for the tap in. We simply don't play that game anymore.

You are arguing my point. I much prefer the way we play now rather than basing it around a single striker as a target. Much easier to counteract for a start.

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

But you talk as though there is a limit on how many chances we create. We create more than enough chances to service a striker like Ruud and still spread chances around the team.

If Ruud was in the current team it would look something like this:

Ronaldo-Tevez-Rooney
----van Nistelrooy----

That would still allow plenty of scope for fluidity with one of the line of three being able to join van Nistelrooy and the other two switching with one another etc.

Those who are proponents of us buying Berbatov or Benzema (pretty much everyone) must realise that these are two out and out forwards as well.

Well, I'm kind of against Berbatov. But even if it was him, he has so much more to his game than just finishing.

But Benzema even more so. He has the ability to dribble at pace, pass, shoot, etc, basically he is the perfect striker for the system we play. A player in the Ruud mold, isn't. Shame he'll never move.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 26th March 2008, 12:49

Feed Me, are you the type that likes thinking of what could have been, instead of taking pleasure in what is?

CnutOfAllCnuts · 26th March 2008, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feed Me

Those who are proponents of us buying Berbatov or Benzema (pretty much everyone) must realise that these are two out and out forwards as well.

Not from the little I've seen of him.

Looks to be in the mould of Rooney and Tevez.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Well, I'm kind of against Berbatov. But even if it was him, he has so much more to his game than just finishing.

But Benzema even more so. He has the ability to dribble at pace, pass, shoot, etc, basically he is the perfect striker for the system we play. A player in the Ruud mold, isn't. Shame he'll never move.

Berbatov is a more rounded footballer, but he would not aid the search for a striker giving this "fluidity" that seems to be all the rage these days.

With Benzema - we will see. I suspect he will end up in La Liga.

Wibble · 26th March 2008, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

You are arguing my point. I much prefer the way we play now rather than basing it around a single striker as a target. Much easier to counteract for a start.

Which isn't a surprise given that you were agreeing with me.

Doh.

Too many windows open at once methinks.

Sam#1 · 26th March 2008, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Not from the little I've seen of him.

Looks to be in the mould of Rooney and Tevez.

He can play left wing, second striker, or main striker.

He'd be perfect for us, up top.

Feed Me · 26th March 2008, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Feed Me, are you the type that likes thinking of what could have been, instead of taking pleasure in what is?

No not really. I think we are better off now than when Ruud was in the team. But I don't think that it is exclusively because Ruud left. I am just trying to address that point.

You are also referring to the Torres discussion no doubt! I have never been one of those who was rueful of not signing him as I never advocated getting him in the first place. I never knew enough about him. But I just think he is a class, class player. Sorry.

26th March 2008, 12:29	#242 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 808s and Heartbreaks Posts: 14,096	I can't agree, Ruud would not work in this system we play. He doesn't have enough to his game.

26th March 2008, 12:49	#262 (permalink)
CnutOfAllCnuts Bald Boring Cnut Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,111	Feed Me, are you the type that likes thinking of what could have been, instead of taking pleasure in what is?