Wayne Rooney: Is this his year?

jojojo · 17th August 2008, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergies Formula

i read his auto-biography the other day and there was evidence in there to suggest he has changed his style to cut out mistakes and prefers to pass over dribble now

All players do that, part of their development as pros is to learn how to play the percentages. Fans make allowances for mistakes by kids and senior players try not to play kids into trouble and try to offer backup in case they do lose the ball. A couple of seasons as a pro and your teammates expect you to look after yourself and fans expect reliability as well as moments of magic.

What worries me about Roo and this "selflessness" argument is that there's a point at which it doesn't help the team - what's selfless about that? Our only first team striker was working hard (while still recovering from illness) to cover for who? Fletcher? Giggs? Scholes? Carrick? O'shea? We can't blame Ron, because he wasn't there.

SAF says he'll play anywhere and Roo clearly thinks he's the best man for lots of jobs - including ones that should be someone else's. An example today: Why was he taking corners - rather than hovering on the edge of the box for a loose ball (and I don't think this is just about the injury list - I asked the same question against Portsmouth last year - why was Roo playing at fullback when Evra was up for a corner)

In another player, I'd wonder if his nerve or his willingness to take responsibility was failing - but he wanted the last minute freekick so I don't think it's that. Which makes me wonder - where does he actually want to play? I know he likes scoring but does he like the role that comes with it? A role that means that sometimes he's got to trust his teammates.

ooeat0meoo · 17th August 2008, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijay

Ronaldo having a great run dosent mean Rooney is mediocre or not up to the mark.

I, agree with most of your post... (even though it comes across as the excuse de jour).

Although, I couldn't agree more with the ending... Rooney needs to stand alone in the assessment of his play. It is not fair to compare him to other players.

Kaka83 · 18th August 2008, 02:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=assePfMvox4

Dippersripper · 18th August 2008, 02:34

I can't view the video

MadDogg · 18th August 2008, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojojo

All players do that, part of their development as pros is to learn how to play the percentages. Fans make allowances for mistakes by kids and senior players try not to play kids into trouble and try to offer backup in case they do lose the ball. A couple of seasons as a pro and your teammates expect you to look after yourself and fans expect reliability as well as moments of magic.

What worries me about Roo and this "selflessness" argument is that there's a point at which it doesn't help the team - what's selfless about that? Our only first team striker was working hard (while still recovering from illness) to cover for who? Fletcher? Giggs? Scholes? Carrick? O'shea? We can't blame Ron, because he wasn't there.

SAF says he'll play anywhere and Roo clearly thinks he's the best man for lots of jobs - including ones that should be someone else's. An example today: Why was he taking corners - rather than hovering on the edge of the box for a loose ball (and I don't think this is just about the injury list - I asked the same question against Portsmouth last year - why was Roo playing at fullback when Evra was up for a corner)

In another player, I'd wonder if his nerve or his willingness to take responsibility was failing - but he wanted the last minute freekick so I don't think it's that. Which makes me wonder - where does he actually want to play? I know he likes scoring but does he like the role that comes with it? A role that means that sometimes he's got to trust his teammates.

I'm worried he's going down the same route as Gerrard. Gerrard sometimes hurts Liverpools tactical shape because of how hard he wants to work, the way he doesn't seem to trust other players to do their job so ends up trying to do everything except what he actually should be doing. Rooney sometimes does the same thing.

Even though Rooney is trying to help the team by dropping so deep and helping out the mdfield, sometimes the negatives of doing so outweighs the positives. When we have Ronaldo and Tevez playing obviously it isn't such a problem, but in a match where he was supposed to be our greatest hope of scoring a goal, it's obviously a big negative if he rarely gets near the goal.

He needs to learn that sometimes the selfish act of staying upfront and letting others do all the hard work, is in fact the least selfish.

Dippersripper · 18th August 2008, 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaka83

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=assePfMvox4

Amazing video. Look at the run at 4:44

Just a shame that most of them are in No. 8 shiry

Ace · 18th August 2008, 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

Amazing video. Look at the run at 4:44

Just a shame that most of them are in No. 8 shiry

To be fair, it may be easy on the eyes, but thats nothing but a five minute video showcasing a lack of end product...

Dippersripper · 18th August 2008, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

To be fair, it may be easy on the eyes, but thats nothing but a five minute video showcasing a lack of end product...

There are loads of videos showcasing his goals, but this one proves that he can TAKE ON players.

unitedbhoy · 18th August 2008, 15:51

If this is to be Rooney's year, he needs to stay in one position, his best position which is playing just off the striker. Today was a great example of his inability to stay in one position. He continues to run back and always be around the ball. He reminds of a 13 year old on a football pitch always looking for the ball to be passed to him. This is Man United, you can't be running up and down, left to right on the pitch.

I know his willingness to run his heart out for the whole 90 minutes compliments his desire to win. But when he comes to middle of the park or his own half he is leaving the striker alone up foward with no help (e.g. Campbell was, for a lot of the game hoofed the ball and forced to hold it up). I truly think that if Rooney stayed in his natural 'Second Striker' position yesterday we would have won.

kanchelskis14 · 18th August 2008, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

Amazing video. Look at the run at 4:44

Just a shame that most of them are in No. 8 shiry

I thought youtube videos got dismissed and laughed at on here?

Acquire Me · 18th August 2008, 16:07

He had a good game yesterday, was "friend with the ball" and with some calm he could have scored a goal or two. He will star this season, as usual, but better.

kanchelskis14 · 18th August 2008, 16:13

What i do know, is that if come May, he hasn't performed as some have expected, it will apparently be down to him missing two pre-season games with a virus.

malcolm31337 · 18th August 2008, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

What i do know, is that if come May, he hasn't performed as some have expected, it will apparently be down to him missing two pre-season games with a virus.

no it wont. if he stays injury free till the end of the season, no one will use that escuse

Pogue Mahone · 18th August 2008, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by unitedbhoy

If this is to be Rooney's year, he needs to stay in one position, his best position which is playing just off the striker. Today was a great example of his inability to stay in one position. He continues to run back and always be around the ball. He reminds of a 13 year old on a football pitch always looking for the ball to be passed to him. This is Man United, you can't be running up and down, left to right on the pitch.

I know his willingness to run his heart out for the whole 90 minutes compliments his desire to win. But when he comes to middle of the park or his own half he is leaving the striker alone up foward with no help (e.g. Campbell was, for a lot of the game hoofed the ball and forced to hold it up). I truly think that if Rooney stayed in his natural 'Second Striker' position yesterday we would have won.

I agree with all of this. Rooney's problems with self-discipline go beyond his tendency to get lippy with referees. He just can't stop himself from chasing the ball, round the pitch. Never mind a 13 year old kid, sometimes he's like a fecking Jack Russell.

A lot of United fans and most brain-dead pundits love this approach, because it's "whole-hearted", he's "putting in the effort" and "working his socks off for the team". But the team actually suffers as a result. Fergie has already said that Rooney needs to be more selfish and allow his team-mates to do the defending, while he concentrates on attacking. He needs to listen to the gaffer.

Pogue Mahone · 18th August 2008, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

What i do know, is that if come May, he hasn't performed as some have expected, it will apparently be down to him missing two pre-season games with a virus.

Stupid post.

kanchelskis14 · 18th August 2008, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Stupid post.

I was waiting for a response. Don't think it's entirely false though, at least one person will cite it. But we are United fans so it's cool.

A1Dan · 18th August 2008, 16:30

OK, so here's the question...

The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)?

Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

Brwned · 18th August 2008, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

OK, so here's the question...

The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)?

Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

No-one will say yes to that, he's too important to us. Even if he doesn't get better from now until he retires, he'll still be one of the best players in our team.

Dippersripper · 18th August 2008, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

I was waiting for a response. Don't think it's entirely false though, at least one person will cite it. But we are United fans so it's cool.

obsessed

kanchelskis14 · 18th August 2008, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

OK, so here's the question...

The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)?

Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

Not a chance, he's definetly worth keeping. Maybe some could possibly question this unouchable staus he seems to have, especially depending on whatecver the Tevez and perhaps Berbatov situation is like at the time.

But selling him would be spoilt and silly in my view.

Pogue Mahone · 18th August 2008, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

OK, so here's the question...

The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)?

Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

Even at 90%, Wayne Rooney is better than most players in the league. Which is why we are all so frustrated that we so rarely see him at 100%

A1Dan · 18th August 2008, 16:39

Well, he's fucked for this season anyway... I got him in my fantasy team.

A1Dan · 18th August 2008, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Even at 90%, Wayne Rooney is better than most players in the league. Which is why we are all so frustrated that we so rarely see him at 100%

True, but is better than most players in the league good enough to be an automatic starter for United? Do you not need to be better than pretty much every other player in the league for that?

rooney__10 · 18th August 2008, 16:41

Class is permanent form temporary. Maybe 05/06 season was a spike in his form.

Since then he has only shown flashes of what he can produce, he just looses the all too much when I have seen him play in the past year. I hope he can sort it out this year and his finishing if he does he is brilliant, however a lot of what rooney does is only noticed when not playing.

crappycraperson · 18th August 2008, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

OK, so here's the question...

The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)?

Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

Errrmm

He is deemed to be not playing at his best in accordance to the talent he showed while young. Otherwise he is still very good player to have. Our third most important one between Ronnie and Rio. Even if he never fulfills the potential he once showed, he is more than worth a starting spot for next 5 years.

Pogue Mahone · 18th August 2008, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

True, but is better than most players in the league good enough to be an automatic starter for United? Do you not need to be better than pretty much every other player in the league for that?

I would take him - even with last season's form - over every other striker in the league, bar maybe 2 or 3. Which makes him plenty good enough for United, IMO.

The frustrating bit is that we can all see he has it in him to be the best, bar none.

BaldwinLegend · 18th August 2008, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1Dan

OK, so here's the question...

The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)?

Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

What the fuck? Flog him because he's not quite the best in the world? What about the fact that in the last 2 seaons he's been absolutely essential to us (check our record in games without him) and the fact he's ran himself in the ground for us in every game? Crap idea...

18th August 2008, 02:32	#163 (permalink)
Kaka83 Youth Team Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 169	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=assePfMvox4

18th August 2008, 02:34	#164 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,262	I can't view the video

18th August 2008, 15:51	#169 (permalink)
unitedbhoy Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Family Stand/FAM206/Row 2/Seat 56.......originally from Co.Down Posts: 798	If this is to be Rooney's year, he needs to stay in one position, his best position which is playing just off the striker. Today was a great example of his inability to stay in one position. He continues to run back and always be around the ball. He reminds of a 13 year old on a football pitch always looking for the ball to be passed to him. This is Man United, you can't be running up and down, left to right on the pitch. I know his willingness to run his heart out for the whole 90 minutes compliments his desire to win. But when he comes to middle of the park or his own half he is leaving the striker alone up foward with no help (e.g. Campbell was, for a lot of the game hoofed the ball and forced to hold it up). I truly think that if Rooney stayed in his natural 'Second Striker' position yesterday we would have won.

18th August 2008, 16:07	#171 (permalink)
Acquire Me Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "To celebrate with the fans after scoring has been one of my aims over the last few years. " Ole Gunnar Solskjaer Posts: 1,298	He had a good game yesterday, was "friend with the ball" and with some calm he could have scored a goal or two. He will star this season, as usual, but better.

18th August 2008, 16:13	#172 (permalink)
kanchelskis14 Transfer Enthusiast Join Date: May 2004 Location: The slums of Hackney Posts: 12,919	What i do know, is that if come May, he hasn't performed as some have expected, it will apparently be down to him missing two pre-season games with a virus.

18th August 2008, 16:30	#177 (permalink)
A1Dan First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Where the goals come from. Posts: 10,927	OK, so here's the question... The general consensus is that Rooney is a great player with the potential to be one of the very best in the world, but in the last couple of seasons hasn't lived up to this 100%, through a combination of injury/fitness, being played out of position, and plain old inconsistency, particularly in front of goal. Given this, were the situation to not change, and we were still saying the same thing in 12 months time, at what point does anybody begin to countenance the idea of letting him go for the good of both parties ("new challenge" for him, loads of cash for replacement to us etc)? Not something I'd consider for a second at the moment, I hasten to add, and if it ever came to it, it would be a painful wrench, but what say you?

18th August 2008, 16:39	#182 (permalink)
A1Dan First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Where the goals come from. Posts: 10,927	Well, he's fucked for this season anyway... I got him in my fantasy team.

18th August 2008, 16:41	#184 (permalink)
rooney__10 Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,272	Class is permanent form temporary. Maybe 05/06 season was a spike in his form. Since then he has only shown flashes of what he can produce, he just looses the all too much when I have seen him play in the past year. I hope he can sort it out this year and his finishing if he does he is brilliant, however a lot of what rooney does is only noticed when not playing.