The Wayne Rooney Thesis

kanchelskis14 · 26th August 2008, 13:01

He's not the player myself, or probably anyone else, hoped he would be by now when he joined us. That said, he's still a very good player.

Drifter · 26th August 2008, 13:02

Good player.But not moved on IMO.

DanNistelrooy · 26th August 2008, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimpy the Magic Elf

I thinks he's falling behind Tevez.

Not for me. Rooney is a better player imo

Bilbo · 26th August 2008, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lot 49

Right because you know exactly what people remember or don't remember.

Strange post

Lot 49 · 26th August 2008, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Strange post

Not really.

lem8sh · 26th August 2008, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Rooney is a considerable better player now than he was 4 years ago.

Hope this helps.

Exactly

Dippersripper · 26th August 2008, 15:20

Pimpy in shit thread shocker

Dippersripper · 26th August 2008, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimpy the Magic Elf

A quick look at the MoM thread proves that a lot of Caftards think that he was the best man on the pitch agains Pompey.

Yes, lets swap their positions and Tevez will get a 5 at best. Tevez is playing in Roney's position because Rooney is the less shitter of the two upfront.

ffurby · 26th August 2008, 15:26

Manchester United head to Monaco on Friday, hoping for silverware from the European Super Cup to accompany the recently acquired Community Shield and, more prestigiously, the Premier League and the Champions League trophies. At 22 and the owner of 43 England caps, Wayne Rooney has already achieved more than the majority of players do in their entire careers.

LaurenceGriffiths/GettyImages

Wayne Rooney: Must emerge from the shadows at Man United.

Yet the more he wins, the greater the enigma Rooney becomes. In 2005/06, he was magnificent while Manchester United were, by their standards, mediocre. A one-man source of optimism about the club's future, his coruscating brilliance was the highlight of their season. In a side that seemed to have too few, he was the principal match-winner. If both and United's and England's hopes seemed to rest with a player barely out of his teens, it was entirely understandable.

Last season, however, the most startling statistic about Rooney's campaign is that his goals only yielded one Premier League point, in April's draw at Middlesbrough; mathematically, United could have won the title without him. Such a strict mathematical analysis ignores his overall contribution indeed, it is telling that their defeats tended to occur in his absence; nevertheless, the comparable figure for Cristiano Ronaldo, who superseded him as the club's resident superstar and points-gatherer in chief, is 19.

That illustrates the difference between 'R' 'n' 'R'. Moreover, in the Champions League final, it was Rooney who was replaced while Ronaldo and the tireless Carlos Tevez remained on. In contrast, 12 months earlier, he produced a fine double against AC Milan in the semi-final to accompany an outstanding display against Roma in the previous round.

If that suggests Rooney is at his best in an unsuccessful cause, that is an impression that the 2005 FA Cup final, where the shootout defeat to Arsenal followed a forceful individual display, reinforces. Rooney's international career, meanwhile, is one of diminishing returns. It has only brought two goals in competitive games since Euro 2004 and Fabio Capello, like Steve McClaren and Sven-Goran Eriksson before him, is already accused of failing to get the best from the only world-class attacker at his disposal.

Rooney is far from the only international underachiever in the current England squad and an overall record of 14 goals in 43 caps is more than respectable, but different standards are applied to him.

And so they should be. While there is an obvious temptation to hype every youngster, he is, along with Steven Gerrard, England's foremost talent. Too much can be expected at too young an age, and growing up has its perils for child prodigies, but Rooney is in danger of underachievement. Not just for the national team, where the majority of his team-mates struggle to replicate their club form, but for Manchester United. Ronaldo, once the junior partner in their alliance, has surged ahead of Rooney. Tevez is at his most destructive alongside the Englishman but it is the Argentine who forged the reputation last season for delivering the vital goals.

Rooney, the odd metatarsal difficulty notwithstanding, has 41 goals in two seasons. Once again, it is a record that would induce envy from most strikers, but then the majority lack his ability. It is true, too, that his talents extend beyond goalscoring; United's slick football, their fluid movement and interchangeable attacking would not be possible without his blend of creativity and industry. Yet there is a reason why, in pre-season, Sir Alex Ferguson stated the need to use Rooney in his proper position, to grant the No.10 the role and responsibilities the shirt often entails.

LaurenceGriffiths/GettyImages

Wayne Rooney: Man United striker is struggling to rediscover form for England

With an unselfishness that is alien to Ronaldo, Rooney tracked back diligently in the Nou Camp as an orthodox right-sided midfielder. He has often, especially in Europe, been delegated duties on the left flank, taking him further from goal. The situation is complicated by Rooney's roaming or, as Ferguson termed it, 'overdoing it in the wrong areas of the pitch'.

Far from operating five yards behind the principal striker, his first two appearances of the season were notable for the supposed striker dropping far deeper. It is a sign of a willingness to involve himself in the game and provide inspiration when the midfield cannot, but for Manchester United against Newcastle and for England versus the Czech Republic, he was ineffective.

If Ronaldo, in contrast, is vain enough to channel his efforts towards individual glory, it can be beneficial, as 42 goals last season suggest. Rooney, however, appeared the superior player in 2006, but has not advanced to such a degree. Perhaps the realisation of that leads to the dissent and mis-timed tackles that characterise a frustrated Rooney. The team ethic that he possesses takes him further from goal and, at times, into trouble, depriving him of tap-ins and leaving others, less talented and less qualified, to take up the striker's position.

At 22, he has time on his side. Yet for the past two years, we have been waiting for him to produce career-defining performances, as his fellow Liverpudlian Gerrard did in Istanbul, or to become the ruthless, relentless destroyer Ronaldo has morphed into. A willingness to roam everywhere on the pitch should not obscure Rooney from the fact he is most dangerous in the final third.

Perhaps the paradox is that too many footballers are too selfish; Rooney is a rare example of one who should act with self-interest in mind more often. Few others would be charged with being Manchester United and England's talisman, but few others have his potential. Wayne Rooney is picking up the medals, but now it is time to challenge for the individual honours as well.

Link

*************

Sums up how I feel about it.

Spoonatov · 26th August 2008, 15:35

I thought he had a good game, yesterday. Although, I agree RE explosiveness. He's at his best when he's running at players. I think it's lack of confidence more than anything.

MUFCgal · 26th August 2008, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw1984

Disagree. He improved immensely for a year or 2 and has declined since then imo.

Still a top top player though and has suffered because of where he's been asked to play.

If we get Berbatov i think Rooney and Tevez will get even better.

Spot on.

Kaush949 · 26th August 2008, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Rooney is a considerable better player now than he was 4 years ago.

Hope this helps.

So is Ronaldo, who was worse than Rooney 4 years ago. 4 years ago I was expecting Rooney to be the player Ronaldo is now, infact better.

Instant Karma · 26th August 2008, 15:48

He is improving as a player but isn't as overrated or overhyped as he was earlier because the other talented players in the squad are starting to outperform him.
Over the last couple of seasons, he was in Ronaldo's shadow. This time around Tevez could up his game and possibly have a great season. Maybe over the next few years, it could be Nani or Anderson who will overshadow him.

malcolm31337 · 26th August 2008, 16:12

Theres no denying that Rooney is going through a stage, a stage where he is not performing at the heights that he should. Give him a good run, and ill bet by Xmas Rooney will be all the press will be talking about

Fergies Formula · 26th August 2008, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plechazunga

His overall game has improved. His passing, reading of the game and decision-making are absolutely fantastic for someone so young.

What he has lost, it's true, is some of his explosiveness. I think the repeated foot injuries have cost him a small amount of pace, but he may get that back. It's more psychological than that... he's become less individualistic and slightly less confident than he was when he first came through. One thing's for sure, when he thinks he's an excellent player, when he relies on natural instinct he's an incredible player.

I'd love to see him pick the ball up, turn, just barrel through a couple of defenders and spank it from twenty-five yards, like he used to. But these days he's much more likely to look for a sensible option. Maybe he idolises Scholesy too much? Or maybe it's all the games played out of position that have blunted his natural exuberance? Or maybe it's just a normal part of a great player's learning and development.

great post, 100% agreed

This has all been done so many times though,

I was reading in his auto biography, and he basically speaks about it saying how when he was younger he would get the ball down dribble past a load of people and smash them in, but he went on to say that now he has matured he realizes that doing that there is more room for error so he now decides to pass because its much easier to thread a pass than it is to do a man, so he goes on percentages and apparently his passing is a better option than his dribbling.... I think he needs to mix it up a bit more and not always look to pass, because lately its becoming too obvious and he doesnt drive at people and look to smash them in, this is where his game has faltered, due to a variety of things... injuries, ronaldo, confidence, position in team, growing up

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th August 2008, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimpy the Magic Elf

He's actually declining since his debut.

Discuss.

PTME

Red Norse · 26th August 2008, 17:04

4 Rooney threads on the 1st page, obsession or nothing else to discuss?

Discuss.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th August 2008, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

Yes, lets swap their positions and Tevez will get a 5 at best. Tevez is playing in Roney's position because Rooney is the less shitter of the two upfront.

Rooney is not shit up top. Not by a long shot.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 26th August 2008, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

He is improving as a player but isn't as overrated or overhyped as he was earlier because the other talented players in the squad are starting to outperform him.
Over the last couple of seasons, he was in Ronaldo's shadow. This time around Tevez could up his game and possibly have a great season. Maybe over the next few years, it could be Nani or Anderson who will overshadow him.

If Rooney finally learns how to finish. So that he is consistent with it. All that will be at an end

wancolos · 26th August 2008, 17:36

To put it into perspective, I doubt you'd find a manager out there who wouldn't bite your hand off if he was offered Rooney.

CantonaVeron · 26th August 2008, 19:00

Rooney has constantly improved since he got here, he is a great player absolutley world class and some one I enjoy watching every time he plays for us. Completely selfless, the team come first for him and he plays such a key role within our system bringing with it flashes of individual brilliance every single match. The current comments on his form are well off imo, he is clearly influenced by Scholsey in a good way I might add and just like Scholsey his contribution to our success is often over looked by some, take him out of our team for any length of time and just like Scholes you will see the massive role he plays for us. Take last night for instance, its well known he likes playing behind a central striker but he kept the shape in our team by staying right up top, he could have easily got frustrated but he kept that shape for us.

26th August 2008, 15:26	#49 (permalink)
ffurby AKA Bruff, hunted by the cops, not wanted by school, owned by Redcaf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Only member (to my knowledge) to have their computer taken away by the police for posting on redcafe. Posts: 785	Rooney Must Discover Selfish Side Manchester United head to Monaco on Friday, hoping for silverware from the European Super Cup to accompany the recently acquired Community Shield and, more prestigiously, the Premier League and the Champions League trophies. At 22 and the owner of 43 England caps, Wayne Rooney has already achieved more than the majority of players do in their entire careers. LaurenceGriffiths/GettyImages Wayne Rooney: Must emerge from the shadows at Man United. Yet the more he wins, the greater the enigma Rooney becomes. In 2005/06, he was magnificent while Manchester United were, by their standards, mediocre. A one-man source of optimism about the club's future, his coruscating brilliance was the highlight of their season. In a side that seemed to have too few, he was the principal match-winner. If both and United's and England's hopes seemed to rest with a player barely out of his teens, it was entirely understandable. Last season, however, the most startling statistic about Rooney's campaign is that his goals only yielded one Premier League point, in April's draw at Middlesbrough; mathematically, United could have won the title without him. Such a strict mathematical analysis ignores his overall contribution indeed, it is telling that their defeats tended to occur in his absence; nevertheless, the comparable figure for Cristiano Ronaldo, who superseded him as the club's resident superstar and points-gatherer in chief, is 19. That illustrates the difference between 'R' 'n' 'R'. Moreover, in the Champions League final, it was Rooney who was replaced while Ronaldo and the tireless Carlos Tevez remained on. In contrast, 12 months earlier, he produced a fine double against AC Milan in the semi-final to accompany an outstanding display against Roma in the previous round. If that suggests Rooney is at his best in an unsuccessful cause, that is an impression that the 2005 FA Cup final, where the shootout defeat to Arsenal followed a forceful individual display, reinforces. Rooney's international career, meanwhile, is one of diminishing returns. It has only brought two goals in competitive games since Euro 2004 and Fabio Capello, like Steve McClaren and Sven-Goran Eriksson before him, is already accused of failing to get the best from the only world-class attacker at his disposal. Rooney is far from the only international underachiever in the current England squad and an overall record of 14 goals in 43 caps is more than respectable, but different standards are applied to him. And so they should be. While there is an obvious temptation to hype every youngster, he is, along with Steven Gerrard, England's foremost talent. Too much can be expected at too young an age, and growing up has its perils for child prodigies, but Rooney is in danger of underachievement. Not just for the national team, where the majority of his team-mates struggle to replicate their club form, but for Manchester United. Ronaldo, once the junior partner in their alliance, has surged ahead of Rooney. Tevez is at his most destructive alongside the Englishman but it is the Argentine who forged the reputation last season for delivering the vital goals. Rooney, the odd metatarsal difficulty notwithstanding, has 41 goals in two seasons. Once again, it is a record that would induce envy from most strikers, but then the majority lack his ability. It is true, too, that his talents extend beyond goalscoring; United's slick football, their fluid movement and interchangeable attacking would not be possible without his blend of creativity and industry. Yet there is a reason why, in pre-season, Sir Alex Ferguson stated the need to use Rooney in his proper position, to grant the No.10 the role and responsibilities the shirt often entails. LaurenceGriffiths/GettyImages Wayne Rooney: Man United striker is struggling to rediscover form for England With an unselfishness that is alien to Ronaldo, Rooney tracked back diligently in the Nou Camp as an orthodox right-sided midfielder. He has often, especially in Europe, been delegated duties on the left flank, taking him further from goal. The situation is complicated by Rooney's roaming or, as Ferguson termed it, 'overdoing it in the wrong areas of the pitch'. Far from operating five yards behind the principal striker, his first two appearances of the season were notable for the supposed striker dropping far deeper. It is a sign of a willingness to involve himself in the game and provide inspiration when the midfield cannot, but for Manchester United against Newcastle and for England versus the Czech Republic, he was ineffective. If Ronaldo, in contrast, is vain enough to channel his efforts towards individual glory, it can be beneficial, as 42 goals last season suggest. Rooney, however, appeared the superior player in 2006, but has not advanced to such a degree. Perhaps the realisation of that leads to the dissent and mis-timed tackles that characterise a frustrated Rooney. The team ethic that he possesses takes him further from goal and, at times, into trouble, depriving him of tap-ins and leaving others, less talented and less qualified, to take up the striker's position. At 22, he has time on his side. Yet for the past two years, we have been waiting for him to produce career-defining performances, as his fellow Liverpudlian Gerrard did in Istanbul, or to become the ruthless, relentless destroyer Ronaldo has morphed into. A willingness to roam everywhere on the pitch should not obscure Rooney from the fact he is most dangerous in the final third. Perhaps the paradox is that too many footballers are too selfish; Rooney is a rare example of one who should act with self-interest in mind more often. Few others would be charged with being Manchester United and England's talisman, but few others have his potential. Wayne Rooney is picking up the medals, but now it is time to challenge for the individual honours as well. Link ************* Sums up how I feel about it.

26th August 2008, 13:01	#41 (permalink)
kanchelskis14 Transfer Enthusiast Join Date: May 2004 Location: The slums of Hackney Posts: 12,919	He's not the player myself, or probably anyone else, hoped he would be by now when he joined us. That said, he's still a very good player.

26th August 2008, 13:02	#42 (permalink)
Drifter First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,412	Good player.But not moved on IMO.

26th August 2008, 15:20	#47 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,262	Pimpy in shit thread shocker

26th August 2008, 15:35	#50 (permalink)
Spoonatov El Presidente - Voted best poster 2007 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Number 17. (Laura's got a cellulite arse). RIP Jermaine Stewart. Posts: 27,965	I thought he had a good game, yesterday. Although, I agree RE explosiveness. He's at his best when he's running at players. I think it's lack of confidence more than anything.

26th August 2008, 15:48	#53 (permalink)
Instant Karma Closet Gooner Join Date: May 2006 Location: In a galaxy far far away Posts: 5,508	He is improving as a player but isn't as overrated or overhyped as he was earlier because the other talented players in the squad are starting to outperform him. Over the last couple of seasons, he was in Ronaldo's shadow. This time around Tevez could up his game and possibly have a great season. Maybe over the next few years, it could be Nani or Anderson who will overshadow him.

26th August 2008, 16:12	#54 (permalink)
malcolm31337 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 93, 94, 96, 97, 99, 00, 01, 03, 07, 08...09 Posts: 3,812	Theres no denying that Rooney is going through a stage, a stage where he is not performing at the heights that he should. Give him a good run, and ill bet by Xmas Rooney will be all the press will be talking about

26th August 2008, 17:04	#57 (permalink)
Red Norse Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: There's hope in hanging snore Posts: 800	4 Rooney threads on the 1st page, obsession or nothing else to discuss? Discuss.

26th August 2008, 17:36	#60 (permalink)
wancolos Diarrhetic homosexual- likes to beat Noggies with his manbat Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,738	To put it into perspective, I doubt you'd find a manager out there who wouldn't bite your hand off if he was offered Rooney.

26th August 2008, 19:00	#61 (permalink)
CantonaVeron Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,004	Rooney has constantly improved since he got here, he is a great player absolutley world class and some one I enjoy watching every time he plays for us. Completely selfless, the team come first for him and he plays such a key role within our system bringing with it flashes of individual brilliance every single match. The current comments on his form are well off imo, he is clearly influenced by Scholsey in a good way I might add and just like Scholsey his contribution to our success is often over looked by some, take him out of our team for any length of time and just like Scholes you will see the massive role he plays for us. Take last night for instance, its well known he likes playing behind a central striker but he kept the shape in our team by staying right up top, he could have easily got frustrated but he kept that shape for us.