Are we a top 4 team without Ronaldo?

redmanc · 25th September 2008, 15:39

A couple of lads i have a general bit of football banter/discussion with at work are all convinced without Ronaldo we wouldnt be a top four team which personally i think is bollocks, we might struggle to win the league but overall i think we'd still be well up there come May.

When i look at our squad man for man and compare to other teams and exclude Ronaldo we're still head and shoulders above in every position, again with Liverpool/Arsenal we easily compete, then theres Chelsea of course which is slightly different nowadays.

Overall though these two i work with must be having a laugh surely? Granted Ronaldo last season scored well more than his fair share and i can perhaps for a split second see why they may come up with the half assed idea that we're not as strong without him but really, more often than not we've always been slow starters.

The lads in question claim its a totally none bias opinion but when ones a bitter and the other a dipper i really can't see them ever being a hundred percent honest in anything let alone a footballing matter regarding our club.

So come on lets have it, are we a top four club without him?

KingEric7 · 25th September 2008, 15:41

With or without Ronaldo, we are Premiership contenders.

gaffs · 25th September 2008, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

With or without Ronaldo, we are Premiership contenders.

Though i doubt we would have been close to Chelsea last season without him.

wancolos · 25th September 2008, 15:42

No, we're not.

We're a top 2 team actually.

Fergies Formula · 25th September 2008, 15:43

without ronaldo we would need to adjust and move on but with time we could defiantly be premiership contenders

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 15:44

Is this a joke?

ERICSAGOD · 25th September 2008, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmanc

A couple of lads i have a general bit of football banter/discussion with at work are all convinced without Ronaldo we wouldnt be a top four team which personally i think is bollocks, we might struggle to win the league but overall i think we'd still be well up there come May.

You are correct - end of thread!

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 15:46

Liverpool are the only team that depend too much on one or two players. We have class players all over the pitch just like Chelsea. We finished second in the league when Ronaldo was not so good.

TheReligion · 25th September 2008, 15:48

the thread starter is a bit of an idiot

must be a WUM

KingEric7 · 25th September 2008, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffs

Though i doubt we would have been close to Chelsea last season without him.

I'm not convinced about that. We may not have won the league, but once more you could say that about the removal of a few players, not least Rio and Rooney/Tevez to a lesser extent.

Would Chelsea have been close to us without Ballack in the second half of the year? Where are on Earth would Liverpool have been without Torres!?

KingEric7 · 25th September 2008, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

the thread starter is a bit of an idiot

must be a WUM

Why?

ERICSAGOD · 25th September 2008, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

Liverpool are the only team that depend too much on one or two players. We have class players all over the pitch just like Chelsea. We finished second in the league when Ronaldo was not so good.

Was that the two players they left out when they beat us?

Hellboy · 25th September 2008, 15:50

redmanc · 25th September 2008, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

the thread starter is a bit of an idiot

must be a WUM

why must i be a wum? im trying to get my head around rival fans thinking we wouldnt be a top four team without one of our best players, no wumming involved you cock biscuit.

Frankly i think its absurd but hey, im not the rival fan(s) thinking it.

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 15:51

Bob summed it in one sentence in the other thread.

Quote:

We had to build a whole team after 58 which we did and now we whinge about just one player.

Addict · 25th September 2008, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

the thread starter is a bit of an idiot

must be a WUM

Read the whole post.. idiot

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 15:56

I'm sure we have enough fanboys here who agree with your mates. Watch out for nistelrooysomething

redmanc · 25th September 2008, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

I'm sure we have enough fanboys here who agree with your mates. Watch out for nistelrooysomething

Perhaps but thats what im hoping to see. I honestly think these 2 are clouded by red/blue tinted specs as theres just no way i could see us finishing outside the top 4 by losing just one player regardless of who came into replace him.

TheReligion · 25th September 2008, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addict

Read the whole post.. idiot

the question itself is stupid - so for posing it, hes an idiot

now fuck off

gaffs · 25th September 2008, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

I'm not convinced about that. We may not have won the league, but once more you could say that about the removal of a few players, not least Rio and Rooney/Tevez to a lesser extent.

Would Chelsea have been close to us without Ballack in the second half of the year? Where are on Earth would Liverpool have been without Torres!?

Where would those 42 goals have come from? Considering we won the league by a couple of points, i think its fair to say he made the biggest difference.

Question was to do with Ronaldo - nothing to do with Ballack or Torres.

TheReligion · 25th September 2008, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmanc

why must i be a wum? im trying to get my head around rival fans thinking we wouldnt be a top four team without one of our best players, no wumming involved you cock biscuit.

Frankly i think its absurd but hey, im not the rival fan(s) thinking it.

why even pose the question then?

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffs

Where would those 42 goals have come from? Considering we won the league by a couple of points, i think its fair to say he made the biggest difference.

Question was to do with Ronaldo - nothing to do with Ballack or Torres.

It doesn't work like that Gaffs. SAF would not have risked going into the new season with only two fit strikers and a number of Ronaldo's goals are due to the freedom he's given. Also, don't forget that we collected a record number of points in the second half of the 05-06 season when Ronaldo was nowhere as good as he is.

KingEric7 · 25th September 2008, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffs

Where would those 42 goals have come from? Considering we won the league by a couple of points, i think its fair to say he made the biggest difference.

Question was to do with Ronaldo - nothing to do with Ballack or Torres.

It's not as straightforward as that, though.

We may have been hindered in some way, but it's unrealistic to say we would've scored 42 less goals without him. Again, we may not have won the league, but we would've accomodated for his absence in some way, as we did when Van Nistelrooy left.

With a team consisting of players such as Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Anderson, Ferdinand, Evra, etc, we could not fail to have at least challenged. Our defence was also absolutely incredible, which was nothing to do with Ronaldo.

Twigginater · 25th September 2008, 16:14

We were beating Chelsea at thier home ground for 70 minutes without Ronaldo.

gaffs · 25th September 2008, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dippersripper

It doesn't work like that Gaffs. SAF would not have risked going into the new season with only two fit strikers and a number of Ronaldo's goals are due to the freedom he's given. Also, don't forget that we collected a record number of points in the second half of the 05-06 season when Ronaldo was nowhere as good as he is.

Sure, but were talking about taking one player, Ronaldo, out of the team.

jojojo · 25th September 2008, 16:21

Last time we were out of the top 3 was 1991. Ron's been with us since 2003 and we won the League the season before he arrived.

Would we have won the double last sesaon without him? Tougher question but fortunately we'll never know. Playing with the hypothetical "what if he got injured on the 1st September" scenario - given the player he is and the season he had and the fact that it was hard fought right to the final kick I've seen little to suggest that someone would have "stepped up" to the job - particularly given how thin in numbers our strikeforece was. But the great thing is we don't have to worry about that - he played for us and we won.

kietotheworld · 25th September 2008, 16:24

You work with morons.

Dippersripper · 25th September 2008, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffs

Sure, but were talking about taking one player, Ronaldo, out of the team.

We got 83 points in the 05-06 season compared to last season's 87, despite the off field problems, not to mention our poor defensive record(we conceded 34 goals last season compared to last season's 22

) For me the major difference between the last two seasons and the season before is the Defence and Carrick. Ronaldo made a lot of impact, but Rooney's form dipped noticeably. They simply swapped their roles with either being better than their 05-06 counterparts.

kanchelskis14 · 25th September 2008, 16:32

Top 4 easily. Still some distance off being the team we are with him in it though, in my view. Not convinced we'd be the best team in the country/europe without him basically. And that's not 'on paper' either, before anyone starts with 'but we have the best defender' etc. I know we do, but attacking wise, Ronaldo is responsible for too much in my view.

gaffs · 25th September 2008, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanchelskis14

Top 4 easily. Still some distance off being the team we are with him in it though, in my view. Not convinced we'd be the best team in the country/europe without him basically. And that's not 'on paper' either, before anyone starts with 'but we have the best defender' etc. I know we do, but attacking wise, Ronaldo is responsible for too much in my view.

Bang on.

25th September 2008, 15:39	#1 (permalink)
redmanc First Team Sub Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: There is no spoon. Posts: 6,495	Are we a top 4 team without Ronaldo? A couple of lads i have a general bit of football banter/discussion with at work are all convinced without Ronaldo we wouldnt be a top four team which personally i think is bollocks, we might struggle to win the league but overall i think we'd still be well up there come May. When i look at our squad man for man and compare to other teams and exclude Ronaldo we're still head and shoulders above in every position, again with Liverpool/Arsenal we easily compete, then theres Chelsea of course which is slightly different nowadays. Overall though these two i work with must be having a laugh surely? Granted Ronaldo last season scored well more than his fair share and i can perhaps for a split second see why they may come up with the half assed idea that we're not as strong without him but really, more often than not we've always been slow starters. The lads in question claim its a totally none bias opinion but when ones a bitter and the other a dipper i really can't see them ever being a hundred percent honest in anything let alone a footballing matter regarding our club. So come on lets have it, are we a top four club without him?

25th September 2008, 15:41	#2 (permalink)
KingEric7 Winner of the Tabata bet Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Patrice Evra is that which no greater can be conceived. Posts: 13,576	With or without Ronaldo, we are Premiership contenders.

25th September 2008, 15:42	#4 (permalink)
wancolos Diarrhetic homosexual- likes to beat Noggies with his manbat Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,738	No, we're not. We're a top 2 team actually.

25th September 2008, 15:43	#5 (permalink)
Fergies Formula Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brighton/ London Posts: 1,865	without ronaldo we would need to adjust and move on but with time we could defiantly be premiership contenders

25th September 2008, 15:44	#6 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,262	Is this a joke?

25th September 2008, 15:46	#8 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,262	Liverpool are the only team that depend too much on one or two players. We have class players all over the pitch just like Chelsea. We finished second in the league when Ronaldo was not so good.

25th September 2008, 15:48	#9 (permalink)
TheReligion Redcafe's very own Joey Barton Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,991	the thread starter is a bit of an idiot must be a WUM

25th September 2008, 15:50	#13 (permalink)
Hellboy First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Berbaville Posts: 5,233

25th September 2008, 15:56	#17 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,262	I'm sure we have enough fanboys here who agree with your mates. Watch out for nistelrooysomething

25th September 2008, 16:14	#24 (permalink)
Twigginater Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: In your heart Posts: 1,042	We were beating Chelsea at thier home ground for 70 minutes without Ronaldo.

25th September 2008, 16:21	#26 (permalink)
jojojo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: It was a life before - it'll be a life after Posts: 1,703	Last time we were out of the top 3 was 1991. Ron's been with us since 2003 and we won the League the season before he arrived. Would we have won the double last sesaon without him? Tougher question but fortunately we'll never know. Playing with the hypothetical "what if he got injured on the 1st September" scenario - given the player he is and the season he had and the fact that it was hard fought right to the final kick I've seen little to suggest that someone would have "stepped up" to the job - particularly given how thin in numbers our strikeforece was. But the great thing is we don't have to worry about that - he played for us and we won.

25th September 2008, 16:24	#27 (permalink)
kietotheworld Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Airstrip One..... Useful Posts: 4 Posts: 4,083	You work with morons.

25th September 2008, 16:32	#29 (permalink)
kanchelskis14 Transfer Enthusiast Join Date: May 2004 Location: The slums of Hackney Posts: 12,919	Top 4 easily. Still some distance off being the team we are with him in it though, in my view. Not convinced we'd be the best team in the country/europe without him basically. And that's not 'on paper' either, before anyone starts with 'but we have the best defender' etc. I know we do, but attacking wise, Ronaldo is responsible for too much in my view.