We were so much better in 2008

Donkey's Ears

Anyone watching the Spurs-United game on ESPN right now?

We haven't looked as dynamic as this all season. Still, it reminds you of why Nani is so frustrating. Been watching for 10 minutes and he's pissed off half the team already with his decision making. But he also beats players for fun.

But it's undeniable how much more quickly we move without Berbatov. This isn't blaming him for everything but I think Fergie may have underestimated how much he might slow us down and how Rooney wouldn't adjust that well.

Good fun but also depressing.

HsJ

Berba might be having the same effect as RVN in his latter years at the club. Slowing down the play quite a lot.

We will probably notice a big change if he leaves and is replaced with a Saha-esque player like RVN was.

Donkey's Ears

I miss Ronnie

UnitedBoy

i think not having ronaldo slowed us down

askabob

Not having Ronaldo also makes us play more like a team.

AdZzUtd

We're more varied in the way we attack now but it's true we don't have the speed that we once had on the direct counter-attack, likewise aside from Rooney nobody seems to get onto our chances, Valencia occasionally.

Donkey's Ears

To be fair to Ronnie, I think it was only in his last season that we had to work around him as opposed to with him.

Sam#1

2008 - What an amazing year. We really are so lucky to have experienced that as fans. Not only did we win, but we won in style, playing some lovely football.

Makes you realise how spoilt we really are.

BAMSOLA

Good year but I prefered 2006/2007 the year we took our property back.

EricaNo7

i find it difficult to watch ronnie now tbh - never thought i'd miss him as much as i do

Pogue Mahone

We always look good against Spurs.

I doubt the game you're watching is any better than the second half raping we gave them at OT, with Berbatov in the thick of the action.

Or how about when we creamed them with 10 men earlier this season? That was better than the vast majority of our performances in 08/09.

gambit28

Got to admit, tha was up there with the Veron inspired comeback for me.

johnmufc

Don't think we're more varied in attack now - if anything, the opposite is true. Especially in 2007/2008, we had a lot of variation and fluidity in attack with Ronaldo, Rooney, and Tevez interchanging. We're a lot more static now with Berbatov and two out and out wingers.

FranklyVulgar

quite obviously you had a better squad. Ronaldo was the best around and Tevez was and is quality. You take them out and bring in Owen. Is it any wonder United are not as good this season? not really, it makes sense.

Decotron

I sort of agree and disagree at the same time. Ronaldo possibly masked a few of the issues we are experiencing now. I do agree on the pace of our attacking play. Still think thats more an of individual thing.

I still think Ive seen a couple of performances this season that attacking wise as a team were as good if not better than last season.

Devil_forever

Do you genuinely not believe that Berbatov slows us down? When we've put together a quick passing move, as soon as Berbatov is involved, he does two things:

1.play a gorgeous first time flick/pass that sets someone through

or

2.he dallies on the ball and all the momentum of the move seems to be taken out and the opposition get men behind the ball.

It'd be okay if he did the later but then produced a killer pass but more often than not he doesn't seem to. He's at his best when he plays a first time pass, some that he pulls off give you a hint of his genius but he doesn't seem to do it enough for me.

Pogue Mahone

You forgot about Valencia, who is a quality player (albeit no Ronaldo)

The theory was that the progression of our younger players would compensate for the loss of Ronaldo and Tevez, rather than the signing of Michael Owen.

Unfortunately, they haven\t progressed quite as much as we hoped. Ho hum. Shit happens. On our day we're still a match for anyone.

HsJ

We had players stretching defenses...like Tevez and Ronaldo, running into the channels and creating space...

none of that any more, all of our play is in front of the defence. Therefore its a slower more patient build up.

Only penetration comes from Valencia...no wonder he's been one of our best players this season.

Sunny Jim

we have been slow in the final third since Berba joined.

Pogue Mahone

When he does 1. it doesn't slow down our play at all.

As for 2. wasn't this same accusation levelled at Tevez the whole time? Yet people are now deciding we actually played all our best football with him in the team. Go figure.

Devil_forever

Yep I agree, 1 is when our play flows, 2 is when he slows us down. Tbf I never took to Tevez and think he's vastly overrated, doesn't have half the talent of Berba, this earned me the tag of "tevez-hater". You still haven't answered my question, do you not believe that Berbatov more often than not slows us down?

Fletcher's Jilted Lover

We were decent in 07/08, but Ronaldos goals masked some problems in our attacking play.

We've also played our best football with Berba in the team this season.

Pogue Mahone

Slows us down compared to what though? Two seasons ago, when Scholes and Carrick had an iron grip in midfield?

If we had a really top class central midfield pairing in every game and two quality wingers stretching play I don't think he'd slow play down so much as dictate it, in the same way that players like Riquelme can amble round and pull the strings while his team-mates tear up and down the pitch.

This is more or less what's happened in the very few games this season when we've been able to play with our best XI players and they've been on top of their game.

Boss

I always thought Berbatov was bought to slow us down, to go for something different, i.e a more patient, controlled game.

Joga_Bonito

Human beings have a tendency to view each moment in time far more seriously and as far more fixed and (potentially) unchanging than it really is. So, at this moment in time, with Ronaldo long(ish) gone, and the team not performing as well as it has in recent years, it's not easy to envision a future in which we have a team that is as good as, or perhaps even better, than that of the past.

But it would be wrong to ignore history, particularly when we have a manager who rarely disappoints. And that, I think, may be the key to the difference in attitude and opinion between those who take a pragmatic view, and those who appear (to the pragmatics) to panic at literally anything that happens. It all seems like such a waste of energy, to be honest. Obviously I cannot know that this current team will win the Premier League, this season, or even that it will evolve in to something that will get close to, or even perhaps match or surpass, that of a few years ago, but surely that is all the more reason not to panic? What I do know is that, while it is certainly justifiable to be thoroughly pissed off at a bad result or performance, that doesn't mean that one is also justified in losing all perspective. It is, after all, just one or two results.

So I can see how easy it is to think of the team of a few years ago and feel a little depressed, and how a fear of the unknown (future) is unsettling for some, but in the end, just as Sir Alex often mentions that we "just have to accept" whatever challenges come our way, that is largely how I feel in situations that I literally have no control over. I might as well just enjoy the ride, because there is plenty in the sport that is worthwhile even when the team that you support isn't performing very well. In fact, it is the transitions between one team and another where I feel that I learn most about football.

FranklyVulgar

exactly, you have a weaker team this season yet are still doing very well. Anyones a fool to write off united but as it stands you were the strongest team in the league and now i think it's safe to say Chelsea are going by depth and quality.

adexkola

It was always going to be a stretch to ask our young players to replace Ronaldo and Tevez. The majority of predictions made after they left was just unrealistic. We were always going to have a slump.

Name Changed

He probably was. Not his fault. The speed and dynamism that we used to have was better, obviously. We really actually lack some pace at the moment.

Boss

I still reminisce about that brilliant piece of play the trio of Roo,Ron and Tevez did in the Cl Final. Rooney won the ball from deep in his own half, played a peach of a ball to Ronaldo who crossed it in for Tevez to head. If it had went in, it would have been talked about for decades.

Fantasy stuff.

Ekeke

It worked then. Too bad we lost our counter-attacking football.

I think Sir Alex said something about signing Berbatov to have a bit more composure in the box. He must have been underwhelmed with some of his finishing in our colours so far.

EricaNo7

perhaps if berbatov had a more substantial midfield behind him, it would help!

Ekeke

Scholes, Carrick, Giggs and Fletcher dont constitute a substantial midfield?

And are you referring to our lack of killer counter attacking football in the past season and a half or the composed finishing? Because our midfield has nothing to do with Berbatov's composure in the box and the same set of players were playing quality counter-attacking football the season before Berbatov joined them.

Boss

At the end of the day there's always an excuse for why Berba is under performing: Our midfield, Rooney, tactics, Sir Alex, Eboue, it's as if we are not good enough for him.

EricaNo7

if they were all playing well at the same time - maybe

Pogue Mahone

We've seen our share of counter-attacking football this season, mainly involving Rooney and Valencia.

Pogue Mahone

Giggs hasn't played one game in central midfield, Scholes is having a poor season and Carrick/Fletcher haven't been able to play nearly enough games together due to the need to plug holes at the back.

If/when they get a run together in central midfield you'll see what Erica is talking about. The clue was in our performance against Wigan.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Rather what we lack is proper consistent width.

The games in which we've had it i.e Spurs away, Man City at home, Wigan, Home and Away..I don't believe anyone can say our game lacked pace in those encounters.

EricaNo7

what we lack is a PROPER midfield - not sure why some of you can't grasp this!

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

There is little wrong with our center midfield. However there is plenty wrong with our flanks. Just watch us play.

EricaNo7

from what i've seen lately we don't have a centre midfield - not much of one certainly.
carrick isn't showing much, fletcher needs to be fully fit and given a prolonged run , can't bring myself criticise scholes ( but i wish he was ten years younger )