RedCafe.net  
 

Go Back   RedCafe.net > Football Discussion > Manchester United Forum
Forum Register Arcade FAQ Mark Forums Read Archives

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th April 2008, 06:39   #81 (permalink)
Crikey that stung
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Never argue with a fool. They'll just drag you down to their level then beat you with experience
Posts: 11,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by noodlehair View Post
Look, I just watched a CL semi final involving the team I support, and love, and was so fucking shitface bored, I actually lost interest in the match. That's never happened before. It nearly did in the FA Cup Final, but I attributed that to Chelsea being Chelsea, and ruining football for everyone.

I've never seen anything so gutless as tonight though. We just flat out refused to get involved in a football match. If you think we can go into a game against them from that, where we have no cushion, or deficit to overcome, and think we can play with any conviction. Well, I can't see it.

We wont know what to do, or have the confidence to do it, they will. That's what worries me

Cry me a river, what a twat.
The Hairdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 24th April 2008, 06:42   #82 (permalink)
Teeth like a reindeer. Hung like a horse.
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Ingadus Speramus
Posts: 35,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by reelworld View Post
This is where I disagree.
I don't expect us to go all blazing in away match against an attacking side like Barca, but I do expect us to play a bit of football. Conceding 65% possession to them isn't what I think, a 'controlled and discipline performance' like some people here think. With Barca losing Puyol and Messi being half fit, I believe we have the chance to contain them AND put a bit of pressure to their defence. The first part we did, but the second part didn't.



I hope so.
It would be nice though, to have an away goal from last night. My blood pressure could use a little help.

I think that if we had Vidic fit we might have had far more ambition. I also think that if we had scored the penalty or been given one of the others we would have seen a very different game. SOmetimes you need that little break to change the flow of a game and we didn't get it tonight.

In years past that might have meant us coming home with a loss. I am incredibly optomistic after that performance.
Wibble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 07:03   #83 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: “Manchester United never lose, they just run out of time”
Posts: 3,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plechazunga View Post
We were away. That's the difference this season - we get results away in Europe by being stubborn, negative cnuts...
There was a big difference between how we played against Barca and how we did against Roma & Lyon. Against those two we were in control; they mave have had more of the ball but they were playing where we wanted. Our mobile, physical midfield pushed them back and we just picked them off everytime they came forward and hit them on the break. Basically, they were impressive away performances.

Against Barca was much more like our naive performances of a few years ago. Getting ran over in the centre of the park, and letting the other team control proceedings. It was just that our defence is strong enough these days that we were able to stop them putting a chance away.

Hopefully Anderson and Hargreaves will play with Carrick in the second leg so we can take control and steamroll them.
MadDogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 07:05   #84 (permalink)
Nationality: Italian-English, Maltese
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cnut's home
Posts: 18,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDogg View Post
There was a big difference between how we played against Barca and how we did against Roma & Lyon. Against those two we were in control; they mave have had more of the ball but they were playing where we wanted. Our mobile, physical midfield pushed them back and we just picked them off everytime they came forward and hit them on the break. Basically, they were impressive away performances.

Against Barca was much more like our naive performances of a few years ago. Getting ran over in the centre of the park, and letting the other team control proceedings. It was just that our defence is strong enough these days that we were able to stop them putting a chance away.

Hopefully Anderson and Hargreaves will play with Carrick in the second leg so we can take control and steamroll them.
I agree with you tactics wise we werent great. Stating that at this stage we are playing against Messi, Etoo etc and not Vucinic and Taddei.
devilish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 07:26   #85 (permalink)
Bald Boring Cnut
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plechazunga View Post
Good result

Performance was somehow both terrible, and excellent, at the same time. But fuck it. We'll do them at OT.
Good summary that Plech, without writing a spastic essay on it.

Good result, excellent defensive performance, terrible attacking performance.

It will be 1-1 at OT, Barca to go through on away goals, as predicted...
CnutOfAllCnuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 07:48   #86 (permalink)
weso26
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dublin
Posts: 5,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plechazunga View Post
Good result

Performance was somehow both terrible, and excellent, at the same time. But fuck it. We'll do them at OT.
Barca will probably score at OT if we attack. To be honest if we play anything like we did last night then I'd expect that Barca will get a score draw.

SAF needs to change a couple of things around. And Anderson has to start.
Name Changed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 08:13   #87 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,458
Is it a good result ? - I'm not sure. Certainly we were outplayed for most of the game and our "attacking stars" rendered largely inept on the night. I think, given Barca's domination and quite brilliant play at times, we were lucky not to come away with a deficit - 2-1 or even 3-1 perhaps - assuming we managed to convert a penalty . No matter we got everyone behind the ball and our defence was superbly marshalled by Rio. Hopefully Barca won't play, or more pertinently be allowed to play, anywhere near as well as they did last night in the return and that their finishing will be equally inept. Hopefully we will offer a great deal more in attack at home and perhaps expose Barca's unsure defence a lot more than we did last night. So yes, perhaps it is a good result but I don't think we've been dominated like that for quite some time in any competition and maybe that's a cause for concern. Despite Messi, E'to, Bojan and co, Barca don't seem to carry the same threat upfront as the Real of Ronaldo and Raul did in similar circumstances a few years ago.

Different tactics for Chelsea please. We can't expect to get away with it two matches running!
Julian Denny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 08:25   #88 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The big donut party that is the Main Forum.
Posts: 887
Bad Points:
1. Couldn't get a hold of the game. Totally overrun.
2. No away goal which kinda means we have to win at OT.
3. Nobody turned up, or were they just not allowed to (see Milan 07).
4. Nerves got to them. Favorites tag was too much for them to handle.

Good Points:
1. Performance can only get better at OT.
2. Didn't lose, which kinda sets it up nicely for us to play for and get a win.
3. We've given Barca false hope that they can come to OT and get the result. They'll be more open, and more daring, and that will allow us to cut them open.
4. Our defense was superb. With Vidic in it, and Brown in his RB position, we'll be totally capable of keeping a clean sheet at OT.

2-0 home win
Fergie's gum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 08:29   #89 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In amoungst the pigs raising hell
Posts: 2,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts View Post
Good summary that Plech, without writing a spastic essay on it.

Good result, excellent defensive performance, terrible attacking performance.

It will be 1-1 at OT, Barca to go through on away goals, as predicted...
Agree, anyone saying 0-0 is a great result is deluded. Away goals are such an important factor in Europe.

Barca V Chelsea final.
FranklyVulgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 08:46   #90 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plechazunga View Post
Good result

Performance was somehow both terrible, and excellent, at the same time. But fuck it. We'll do them at OT.
Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDogg View Post
There was a big difference between how we played against Barca and how we did against Roma & Lyon. Against those two we were in control; they mave have had more of the ball but they were playing where we wanted. Our mobile, physical midfield pushed them back and we just picked them off everytime they came forward and hit them on the break. Basically, they were impressive away performances.

Against Barca was much more like our naive performances of a few years ago. Getting ran over in the centre of the park, and letting the other team control proceedings. It was just that our defence is strong enough these days that we were able to stop them putting a chance away.

Hopefully Anderson and Hargreaves will play with Carrick in the second leg so we can take control and steamroll them.

I agree that we invited pressure through our poor passing, but almost all Barca's possession was in front of our defence. The midfield played their part in stopping them getting in on goal. They were just shite in posession.

I was edging towards wanting a Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves midfield for last night's game, but Scholes was easily our best midfielder yesterday. The only one that showed any composure on the ball, and he held his own physically and made some great interceptions.
Pat_Mustard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 08:48   #91 (permalink)
First Team Sub
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,784
Barca weaved pretty patterns all night, with no end product at all. You could tell the way we dropped off when we lost possession that we were fairly content to let them have the ball, although this was also mainly because we couldn't get the bloody thing off them.

Its a two-legged tie. We showed last night what a superb defensive unit we have. Next week we'll put theirs to the test, and they'll see more of what we're all about. 0-0 at the Nou Camp is a very decent result.
Bilbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 08:58   #92 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,390
Main factor was confidence. Our only players who were confident about their ability, are Ronaldo, Evra, and Ferdinand. Anyone else bottled it, attacking wise. Our passing was poor because our players have less technical abillity and belief in themselves. No confidence what so ever.

Close control decided the game for me. Their midfield of Xavi Iniesta and Deco are great on the ball, better than Carrick and Scholes when it comes to dictating the tempo, and better dribblers from midfield. When you have the abillity to shield the ball and dribble it earns you time to pick a pass, we didn't have that, and thats what swayed the game in Barcelona's favour. They seemed hard to knock of the ball without a foul (or a dive), and cruised past our midfield. Scholes had some great tackles, but attacking wise he was part of the problem, the only one who has done anything noteworthy in attack is obviously Ronaldo. No one else existed. Its like we thought hoof the ball, Ronaldo will chase it, maybe, luckily he will nick a goal. Its really unfair to him. While Messi had a dynamic trio of Xavi Deco and Iniesta running around him for a simple pass all the time, Ronaldo had himself only, and he did beat his first marker more than enough, but there was no one there.

Im pretty sure though, that if we had Ronaldo on the wing and Rooney upfront we would have stole a goal. We would have had an extra player on the pitch, because no matter how much Rooney helped the defence, we wasted a game winning card. And I don't think Abidal would have attacked all that much if he had Ronaldo to worry about, because Ronaldo was superb with his dribbling through out the first half. It was like Roma away last year, he was the only attacking player with any threat, and his persistence led to that superbly taken goal by Rooney.

Our defence was absolutely superb. Ferdinand and Wes looked very good, except that mistake by Wes. Evra contained Messi very well, and this whole "he will tear Evra/us apart" story is just wrong. Hargreaves was alright.

Tevez, looked slow and heavy, his touch let him down on every occasion. Same goes for Park.

The penalty miss: Well, Ive really expected him to put it in. It happens but he should be more composed next time, it could prove costly and he knows that. Its the way he approached the ball that was wrong, he should have just stuttered and sent Valdez the wrong way, Valdez was always going to his right anyway, they watch these stuff on videos. The thing is, that if it went in the whole game would have been different. hopefully he can atone for this "error" next week.
IhabX7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 09:15   #93 (permalink)
Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind"
Posts: 16,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's gum View Post
Bad Points:
1. Couldn't get a hold of the game. Totally overrun.
2. No away goal which kinda means we have to win at OT.
3. Nobody turned up, or were they just not allowed to (see Milan 07).
4. Nerves got to them. Favorites tag was too much for them to handle.

Good Points:
1. Performance can only get better at OT.
2. Didn't lose, which kinda sets it up nicely for us to play for and get a win.
3. We've given Barca false hope that they can come to OT and get the result. They'll be more open, and more daring, and that will allow us to cut them open.
4. Our defense was superb. With Vidic in it, and Brown in his RB position, we'll be totally capable of keeping a clean sheet at OT.

2-0 home win
Couple more good points.

1. Only one yellow card means that Evra and Nani are still the only two players who are a booking away from missing the next game. The other 3 semi-finalists all have a number of really important players who are one yellow card away from missing the final.

2. Compact and disciplined perfirmance meant that we didn't need to run ourselves into the ground, chasing a result. The game was very measure and played at a slow pace. Perfect preperation for a massive game on Saturday.

God Points > Bad Points

2-0 home win, I agree.
Pogue Mahone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 09:33   #94 (permalink)
Cheesy
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm not a stranger, I'm Nani's cousin, and I have an evil head. it runs in the Family.
Posts: 3,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterstorey View Post
Yeah they expected to see the "Best team in Europe" and after about 3 minutes they realised it wasn't you.
Do you want us to start calling you lot Bitters.
Partizan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 09:35   #95 (permalink)
Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind"
Posts: 16,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partizan View Post
Do you want us to start calling you lot Bitters.


Dontcha just love the way the gooners are being eaten up inside by another trophyless season?

"But... but... we play great football... "

Boo fucking hoo, losers!
Pogue Mahone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 09:42   #96 (permalink)
Paz's ion
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Everything is "blarg".
Posts: 22,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter View Post
Fergie is going to be afraid of conceding a away goal on the counter now at OT, I don't expect a attacking team at all. I think the match will be similar to the Lyon one at OT. United go for a "early" goal and then sit back the rest of the game. Unfortunately Barca is a better team than Lyon and them not scoring in 2 matches is very unlikely. Boring to watch us defend at home but usually effective in CL.
Probably right.

Bit disappointed with not scoring last night - gilt edged chance with the penalty and should have had another.
spinoza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 09:45   #97 (permalink)
Paz's ion
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Everything is "blarg".
Posts: 22,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts View Post
Good summary that Plech, without writing a spastic essay on it.

Good result, excellent defensive performance, terrible attacking performance.

It will be 1-1 at OT, Barca to go through on away goals, as predicted...
Yep. They might even nick a win.
spinoza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 09:51   #98 (permalink)
Cheesy
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm not a stranger, I'm Nani's cousin, and I have an evil head. it runs in the Family.
Posts: 3,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post


Dontcha just love the way the gooners are being eaten up inside by another trophyless season?

"But... but... we play great football... "

Boo fucking hoo, losers!
Makes my day Pogue, makes my fuckin day. Away and have a doughnut party.
Partizan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 11:52   #99 (permalink)
Logical and sensible but turns women gay
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinoza View Post
Yep. They might even nick a win.
I can't see us losing to be honest. But I can see a score draw.
Frosty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 12:05   #100 (permalink)
Wes
Brown is no God
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dublin, in the Irish Republic
Posts: 8,205
Its a missed opportunity, more than anything else. They were there for the taking, and we allowed them to have the ball as much as they wanted to. We didn't really have enough balls to run at them and get players forward. Even on the counter where we had the odd decent situatuion, nobody was up with Ronaldo to give him a hand. At one stage we had 3 players up for a corner - not really good enough seeing as their defence is questionable, and we never asked questions of it. Too negative, but with the week thats in it, maybe a 0-0 is the better score in the medium term.
Wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 13:38   #101 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: "He's a rebel and he stands up to Bullies"
Posts: 1,099
It's a bad result in context of statistics.The away side in the second leg almost (the only time I can think of this didn't happen was the Liverpool-Chelsea phantom goal match) always goes through if the first leg is 0-0. The Milan-Arsenal tie is a good example, Milan came away with nill-nill in North London which is a creditable result but ended up having a massive disadvantage at home because if Arsenal scored it counted for two. It tactically fucks teams over because they can't push forward for the kill and they can't sit back either.
MehdiMahdavikia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 13:47   #102 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by MehdiMahdavikia View Post
It's a bad result in context of statistics.The away side in the second leg almost (the only time I can think of this didn't happen was the Liverpool-Chelsea phantom goal match) always goes through if the first leg is 0-0. The Milan-Arsenal tie is a good example, Milan came away with nill-nill in North London which is a creditable result but ended up having a massive disadvantage at home because if Arsenal scored it counted for two. It tactically fucks teams over because they can't push forward for the kill and they can't sit back either.
How about, "we have one fuckin match on our hands, lets win it" kind of mentality. Easy, win the game and progress, anything else is not good enough. Its either we are good enough to win it this year or not. Im sure the players are up for it.
IhabX7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 14:00   #103 (permalink)
Dr Death wasting tax payers money on the Caf all day
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: "As relaxed and natural on the park as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind"
Posts: 16,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by MehdiMahdavikia View Post
It's a bad result in context of statistics.The away side in the second leg almost (the only time I can think of this didn't happen was the Liverpool-Chelsea phantom goal match) always goes through if the first leg is 0-0. The Milan-Arsenal tie is a good example, Milan came away with nill-nill in North London which is a creditable result but ended up having a massive disadvantage at home because if Arsenal scored it counted for two. It tactically fucks teams over because they can't push forward for the kill and they can't sit back either.
It's also the only example you've come up with to support your opinion. With the Liverpool-Chelsea game being an example against it.

Those "statistics" aren't all that convincing.
Pogue Mahone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 14:11   #104 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Where the sun dont shine.
Posts: 3,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapidRed View Post
Messi was absolutely phenomenal, picked us apart at will. Clearly much better than Maradona.
You are clearly joking or clearly deranged, which is it?
quethenoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 14:13   #105 (permalink)
Phones, soup, paint and chairs are troubling.
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: In the principality is chief executive of David evroshampiona Gil.
Posts: 49,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by noodlehair View Post
Look, I just watched a CL semi final involving the team I support, and love, and was so fucking shitface bored, I actually lost interest in the match. That's never happened before. It nearly did in the FA Cup Final, but I attributed that to Chelsea being Chelsea, and ruining football for everyone.

I've never seen anything so gutless as tonight though. We just flat out refused to get involved in a football match. If you think we can go into a game against them from that, where we have no cushion, or deficit to overcome, and think we can play with any conviction. Well, I can't see it.

We wont know what to do, or have the confidence to do it, they will. That's what worries me
I thought it was quite a compelling match. A very clever passing team against a very disciplined defensive side. Seen plenty of good games like that in the past, only it's usually us who are doing the clever passing.

It wasn't pretty, but it got the result, that's what's different about us this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleat View Post
Narni.

Cutting inside with his caring left-foot control
Ladies and gentlemen: David Pleat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter View Post
Fergie is going to be afraid of conceding a away goal on the counter now at OT, I don't expect a attacking team at all. I think the match will be similar to the Lyon one at OT. United go for a "early" goal and then sit back the rest of the game. Unfortunately Barca is a better team than Lyon and them not scoring in 2 matches is very unlikely. Boring to watch us defend at home but usually effective in CL.
Agreed, except for the bizarre decision to put inverted commas round 'early'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bury Red View Post
Believe what you like, it's happened 8 times in our history in the European Cup and we've gone through on 5 of those occasions. In fact in the '68 season we had two scoreless draws away as well as an away loss to Gornik Zabrze in the early rounds before the 3-3 draw at the Bernebau in the semis put us through to the final and our first European Cup.

When did the "and when you know your history..." in our chant change to "and when you're just a pessimist...", and why didn't I get the memo?

It may not have been the most thrilling of matches to stay up until 5AM to watch but you had to be impressed by the way our defence denied Barca any really dangerous chances in their own back yard and made Messi look very ordinary. We didn't create much but still contrived to miss a penalty and had 2 other good calls refused as well as showing how our mix of short and long passing was capable of opening them up on a few occasions, all it lacked was the finish and that can wait until next week.

I can't wait for Saturday and then next Tuesday, this is what following United is all about.
Egg fucking zackly
Plechazunga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2008, 14:18   #106 (permalink)
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 612
Not good result, Barca can easily go through if they score first.
evil_geko is offline