Where do we fit Rooney?

championo · 7th January 2010, 00:45

god said this:

Quote:

"That's the thing, because I think he's identical to Wayne in the position he plays, which is further up the pitch with Dimitar Berbatov in your team.

"Your combination is more likely to be Berbatov and Owen or Berbatov and Rooney. With Rooney and Owen together you'd have to drop Rooney in the hole and I prefer to play him further up the pitch."

Rooney himself says his best position is playing in the middle.
If I interpret that correctly, is he saying his best position is not too far ahead but also not too deep implying that it will be behind another striker?

Is god making a mistake with Rooney? Is he wrong? Anybody brave enough to challenge SAF on this?
What is his best position?
Personally, I will play Rooney in the hole, right in his so called "middle" (I hope that is what he means). Push Berba forward whether he likes it or not.
If Berba can't cut it up there, then we should start playing Welbeck/Macheda/ whoever is left more or look for a target man because clearly Rooney is our future. No dow aba that

Allforone · 7th January 2010, 00:51

Weve seemingly become obsessed with trying to turn Rooney into and Number 9 wrongly in my humble opinion but thats where Sir Alex has said numerous times now he sees Rooneys future, we play Berbatov to deep and in general the front 2 again in my view are played in the wrong manner, Berbatov should be the focal point with Rooney the one allowed to drift just behind him a role Rooneys time and again said is his prefered one, for some reason we play them the other way round and i dont think it gets the best out of either.

I think wed be better off with a front pairing of this:

......................Rooney

...............Berbatov

Rather Than this:

......................Berbatov

..............Rooney

Theres no doubt Berbatov is a far better central focal point striker than an off the front link man his goalscoring records at internaional level for Bulgaria and with Tottenham clearly show this.

OneUnited24 · 7th January 2010, 00:53

Personally if SAF sees something in Rooney and thinks that he can play upfront then so be it, its clear that he rates Rooney to lead the line ahead of Berbatov (something Berba did while at tottenham) so there must be some thinking behind it that and i believe its because SAF reckons Rooney will develop into a out and out striker so many here are craving but it will take a while and i think he knows this but is willing to keep Rooney up there so he starts to gain more experience in that position.

Benefit of that would be he still has the work-rate, he'll drop deep when he wants to start things off/drive the team on but he'll do it from a more advanced position

Logan! · 7th January 2010, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by championo

No dow aba that

That's the worst attempt at a Scottish accent in text form that I've ever seen.

And who's this God fella? Sounds awfully scouse to me.

OneUnited24 · 7th January 2010, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allforone

Weve seemingly become obsessed with trying to turn Rooney into and Number 9 wrongly in my humble opinion but thats where Sir Alex has said numerous times now he sees Rooneys future, we play Berbatov to deep and in general the front 2 again in my view are played in the wrong manner, Berbatov should be the focal point with Rooney the one allowed to drift just behind him a role Rooneys time and again said is his prefered one, for some reason we play them the other way round and i dont think it gets the best out of either.
I think wed be better off with a front pairing of this:

......................Rooney

...............Berbatov

Rather Than this:

......................Berbatov

..............Rooney

Im not too sure about that, Rooneys form seems iffy when he was paired with Owen or as a lone striker but when he had someone supporting him (berba or giggs) he looks much better - his last few performances have been really good and thats with Berbatov playing as a SS

charlenefan · 7th January 2010, 01:04

It's problem with strikers full stop these days, they all want to be a number 10 i.e. 'playing in the hole' the days of traditional number 9's where a striker wants to be the furthest forward playing on the shoulder of defences and always in and around the penalty area are unfortunately a dying breed

I think it was clear when we signed Berbatov he the type of striker that links play much like Rooney but we still went ahead and signed him anyway

I honestly dont think it's a coincidence that Rooney two best periods for us was his second season when playing behind Ruud and then the second half of that season/beginning of his third season paying behind Saha neither of whom got involved in dropping deep wanting to link play

Allforone · 7th January 2010, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneUnited24

Im not too sure about that, Rooneys form seems iffy when he was paired with Owen or as a lone striker but when he had someone supporting him (berba or giggs) he looks much better - his last few performances have been really good and thats with Berbatov playing as a SS

Honestly the only thing in my opinion thats improved in Rooneys game this season played where hes being played is his goal return largely aided by a few penalties this season, now obviously thats important of course it is but his all round game i dont believe is of the level or anywhere close to the level it was when he was allowed to play off both Ruud and Saha a few seasons ago, i think thats where you see the best of Wayne Rooney and the player himself has said that himself many times, i do understand the reasoning behind fergie putting him further forward and trying to get more output from Rooney in the box especially with the sale of Ronaldo and all his goals but i dont ever see Rooney as a world class long term number 9 simply becasue he dosnt have the natural attributes to be so.

Hes not overly quick and nor is he a great finisher either to be fair which are probably the 2 main assests a world class number 9 has see the likes of Villa/Torres/Eto'o and co for examples of what im meaning....i think Rooney is a world class number 10, i think hes a far better player when hes allowed to drift from the front and run at defences from deeper positions crafting out chances with his vision and creative skill as well as providing a goal threat, thats where his best form for us has come from in previous seasons and where his form for England has been so good over the past 18 months, hes done well right up top for us this season in patches but i dont believe hes performances have been anywhere near as consistent nor as good as they have been in previous years when hes played in what i consider his natural role....

Add to that i think Berbatovs shown all throughout his carear hes a far better main front man than he is a withdrawn striker, his record for Bulgaria is nothing short of phenominal the best in their history with a goal to game ratio almost mimicking that of David Villas in a far better spanish side...his record for spurs in said role is also very impressive.

I just think we dont get the best out of either players natural qualities playing them the way we do.

Allforone · 7th January 2010, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlenefan

It's problem with strikers full stop these days, they all want to be a number 10 i.e. 'playing in the hole' the days of traditional number 9's where a striker wants to be the furthest forward playing on the shoulder of defences and always in and around the penalty area are unfortunately a dying breed

I think it was clear when we signed Berbatov he the type of striker that links play much like Rooney but we still went ahead and signed him anyway

I honestly dont think it's a coincidence that Rooney two best periods for us was his second season when playing behind Ruud and then the second half of that season/beginning of his third season paying behind Saha neither of whom got involved in dropping deep wanting to link play

I agree with that.

OneUnited24 · 7th January 2010, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allforone

Honestly the only thing in my opinion thats improved in Rooneys game this season played where hes being played is his goal return largely aided by a few penalties this season, now obviously thats important of course it is but his all round game i dont believe is of the level or anywhere close to the level it was when he was allowed to play off both Ruud and Saha a few seasons ago, i think thats where you see the best of Wayne Rooney and the player himself has said that himself many times, i do understand the reasoning behind fergie putting him further forward and trying to get more output from Rooney in the box especially with the sale of Ronaldo and all his goals but i dont ever see Rooney as a world class long term number 9 simply becasue he dosnt have the natural attributes to be so.

Hes not overly quick and nor is he a great finisher either to be fair which are probably the 2 main assests a world class number 9 has see the likes of Villa/Torres/Eto'o and co for examples of what im meaning....i think Rooney is a world class number 10, i think hes a far better player when hes allowed to drift from the front and run at defences from deeper positions crafting out chances with his vision and creative skill as well as providing a goal threat, thats where his best form for us has come from in previous seasons and where his form for England has been so good over the past 18 months, hes done well right up top for us this season in patches but i dont believe hes performances have been anywhere near as consistent nor as good as they have been in previous years when hes played in what i consider his natural role....

Add to that i think Berbatovs shown all throughout his carear hes a far better main front man than he is a withdrawn striker, his record for Bulgaria is nothing short of phenominal the best in their history with a goal to game ratio almost mimicking that of David Villas in a far better spanish side...his record for spurs in said role is also very impressive.

I just think we dont get the best out of either players natural qualities playing them the way we do.

I get where you're coming from and for the most part i agree, but there has to be a reason why SAF chooses to play Berba deeper than Rooney and i think its because he sees Rooney has more potential to be a number 9 - that or hes trying to develop a new type of striker that is a mix of the 2

Allforone · 7th January 2010, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneUnited24

I get where you're coming from and for the most part i agree, but there has to be a reason why SAF chooses to play Berba deeper than Rooney and i think its because he sees Rooney has more potential to be a number 9 - that or hes trying to develop a new type of striker that is a mix of the 2

Yep thats exactly it he does but in my view i just dont think your ever going to fully see the best of Wayne Rooney used as a number 9 i think it limits so much of what hes capable of for assets of his game that are far inferior to others better suited to a number 10 role that we all have seen flourish for us in the past.

Maybe its a case of giving Rooney a season or two as an out an out front man getting him used to being in and around the box and on the end of things so that when he is put back a little deeper he dosnt waste quite as much enegry in areas of the pitch he dosnt need to.....maybe its a long term strategy of getting his mind set focussed more on his movements and instincts in and around the box and scoring more goals from that number 10 role....i hope thats the case and that we dont try and turn Rooney into just another off the shoulder striker becasue that for me is not and never has been what Rooneys about and quite frankly is a total waste of so much talent....an example of what weve seen this season really, a few more goals but not nearly the magic and flair we all saw a few seasons ago and i dont think thats Rooneys fault i think its more the role hes now asked to play thats done that.

B Cantona · 7th January 2010, 02:34

Rooney is fine. Play him up front and central, but let him drift wide and deeper

What he needs is a proper striker alongside him

He doesn't have that right now

Can't believe what Fergie said by the way. We can't get our 2nd highest scorer (despite playing a paltry amount of games) into the team? Why is that then? I'm not having it that Rooney plays too similar to Owen, or that they're incapable of playing together. I think Ferguson has been blinded by his Berba mistake

Count Duckula · 7th January 2010, 02:49

Basically, then, what has happened is Sir Alex is so desperate to fit Berbatov into this team that he's actually gone on record saying that Rooney has to play up front - when every man and his fucking dog knows Rooney's best position is behind another striker. His best form for us, his best form for Everton, and, recently, his best form for England have all come when he's the "second striker".

But so desperate is our illustrious boss to prove he didn't make a ludicrously expensive mistake that he's willing to fuck Rooney over just to try and shoehorn Berbatov into the team. I await the day with baited breath we get that fucking lazy cunt out of the team and get a proper striker for our best player to play alongside and actually perform as well as he can.

This is why I despise Berbatov being in the team. Not because of his laziness, the way he kills all our attacks with his pointless dallying, or the fact that despite his pricetag a nun will score more times; but because by constantly playing him in a desperate hope that he'll finally "click" we're fucking over by far the best player in our side at the moment.

AttackingFlair · 7th January 2010, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Basically, then, what has happened is Sir Alex is so desperate to fit Berbatov into this team that he's actually gone on record saying that Rooney has to play up front - when every man and his fucking dog knows Rooney's best position is behind another striker. His best form for us, his best form for Everton, and, recently, his best form for England have all come when he's the "second striker".

But so desperate is our illustrious boss to prove he didn't make a ludicrously expensive mistake that he's willing to fuck Rooney over just to try and shoehorn Berbatov into the team. I await the day with baited breath we get that fucking lazy cunt out of the team and get a proper striker for our best player to play alongside and actually perform as well as he can.

This is why I despise Berbatov being in the team. Not because of his laziness, the way he kills all our attacks with his pointless dallying, or the fact that despite his pricetag a nun will score more times; but because by constantly playing him in a desperate hope that he'll finally "click" we're fucking over by far the best player in our side at the moment.

I agree but there's no reason Fergie has to play Berbatov behind Rooney.

Allforone · 7th January 2010, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Basically, then, what has happened is Sir Alex is so desperate to fit Berbatov into this team that he's actually gone on record saying that Rooney has to play up front - when every man and his fucking dog knows Rooney's best position is behind another striker. His best form for us, his best form for Everton, and, recently, his best form for England have all come when he's the "second striker".

But so desperate is our illustrious boss to prove he didn't make a ludicrously expensive mistake that he's willing to fuck Rooney over just to try and shoehorn Berbatov into the team. I await the day with baited breath we get that fucking lazy cunt out of the team and get a proper striker for our best player to play alongside and actually perform as well as he can.

This is why I despise Berbatov being in the team. Not because of his laziness, the way he kills all our attacks with his pointless dallying, or the fact that despite his pricetag a nun will score more times; but because by constantly playing him in a desperate hope that he'll finally "click" we're fucking over by far the best player in our side at the moment.

OR we simply put Berbatov where hes best and its problem solved?.......Rooney dosnt need to play up top to accomodate Berbatov in the team thats the point, Sir Alex chooses to play him there believing hes a long term number 9 of which hes said so many times now, god knows why though as you say everyone can see where Rooneys most comfortable and clearly at his best.

The strange thing is Berbatovs better as a main centre forward than as a link man anyway, his record for Bulgaria (which is stunning), Spurs and before that Leverkusen illustrates this beyond any doubt...we just dont play either him or Rooney properly or naturally is maybe a better word...out of choice unfortunatly and strangely, for whatever reason its how Fergie likes it.

Count Duckula · 7th January 2010, 03:00

But Berbatov didn't play as an out-and-out striker for Tottenham. He played alongside Robbie Keane, with whom he worked brilliantly... but that's because he could sit in the hole with little flicks whilst Keane (quicker and a much better finisher than Rooney) got on the end of everything.

Rooney is not Robbie Keane. He's a much, much better player, but his skillset does not match up perfectly with Berbatov's in the same way. Those two completed each other, and I don't find it surprising that as soon as they were seperated they suddenly became much worse off, despite moving to better teams and thus being surrounded by better players. One of them didn't become worse off whilst the other improved, showing who was the real star of the partnership; they both dropped down a level. It was a textbook case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

B Cantona · 7th January 2010, 03:10

1:14 on that clip

When have you ever seen him burst into life in a United shirt like that?!

Yes he has the same great touch as then, but where's the burst of energy? The desire to get to the ball first? The constant clever movement to make space?!

It's all very well saying Berbatov should be up top, and Rooney playing behind. If it were that simple I'd say it'd have happened already. Given Berbatov doesn't score many goals whatever, playing Rooney deeper probably means he'll score less goals...

I don't have a problem with the shape of the team as it is. I just think Berbatov has to play better than he has done thus far. And part of that has to be showing a bit more bloody energy and desire

McLovin · 7th January 2010, 03:21

Some fantastic goals in that clip. I agree with you, Brad, it's high time he start doing that for us by instilling some desire into his play.

TheReligion · 7th January 2010, 03:21

That video has pissed me off Brad

What the fuck is wrong with you Berbatov?

Why can't you run fast for us?

Alex · 7th January 2010, 03:24

Low on confidence and doesn t know where he fits in

VoetbalWizard · 7th January 2010, 03:27

is capello managing rooney better than saf then due to playing rooney in his 'best' position?

kietotheworld · 7th January 2010, 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

That video has pissed me off Brad

What the fuck is wrong with you Berbatov?

Why can't you run fast for us?

This.

Anderson Searl · 7th January 2010, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

That video has pissed me off Brad

What the fuck is wrong with you Berbatov?

Why can't you run fast for us?

He gets his money.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 7th January 2010, 07:58

The problem is SAF wont play Berba as the man further up top, with Rooney in a free role.

MadDogg · 7th January 2010, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

That video has pissed me off Brad

What the fuck is wrong with you Berbatov?

Why can't you run fast for us?

Confidence.

He's the type of player who everything just flows naturally to when he feels good. He'll seem faster, stronger and will be in the right positions more often. But when he's not confident nothing seems to come off for him, he'll time his runs wrong or not make them at all.

That's what is so frustrating with Berbatov. If he could get fully confident and settled in his position in the team there's no doubt in the world he'd be a massive player for us. But there doesn't seem to be any easy way to get him feeling confident and settled. He needs something special to happen to spark him into life.

hungrywing · 7th January 2010, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

The problem is SAF wont play Berba as the man further up top, with Rooney in a free role.

SAF has admitted that he's gotten soft. Probably wants to let Berba Berba-do what Berba-wants. Same for Rooney. With the difference being that Rooney wants to bloody win and Berba wants to touch the ball with his feet.

devilish · 7th January 2010, 09:13

I still believe that Rooney's best role is that of a link man where his workrate and his ability to get from deep and exploit the spaces created by the main striker can be exploited. If SAF is determined not to play him in that role then we need a fantasista who can actually score loads of goals (Robbie Baggio type). Whatever happens I hope that SAF stick Rooney to one position and keep him there. We are ruining the kid.

amolbhatia100 · 7th January 2010, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReligion

That video has pissed me off Brad

What the fuck is wrong with you Berbatov?

Why can't you run fast for us?

Same here. It's annoyed me.

You look at that clip and the first thing that crosses your mind is that he's a special player who could play for any team in the world and frickin well. He's a shadow of his former self with us. This is depressing really. We have a world class talent on our hands who was awesome for Spurs and is meandering around average for us.

I guess it is all in the mentality. He seems to be the opposite of Ronaldo, who has this unbelievable confidence in his own abilities and the drive to be the best. Berbatov seems lost at our football, almost overwelmed. It is as if he thinks Spurs was more his level than United. Which is obviously wrong, he's too gifted a player for that.

blythy · 7th January 2010, 10:21

We don't "fit" Rooney, we build around him.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 7th January 2010, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlenefan

...second half of that season/beginning of his third season paying behind Saha neither of whom got involved in dropping deep wanting to link play

Rooney was mostly shit alongside Saha. No forwards have meshed with him the way Ruud, Tevez and Heskey have.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 7th January 2010, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by blythy

We don't "fit" Rooney, we build around him.

Exactly. That is why Berba should be given the more restrictive role in the box and Rooney be allowed to do what he wills, the way we used to do for Ronaldo, playing off him.

olesmyhero · 7th January 2010, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Cantona

1:14 on that clip

When have you ever seen him burst into life in a United shirt like that?!

Yes he has the same great touch as then, but where's the burst of energy? The desire to get to the ball first? The constant clever movement to make space?!

It's all very well saying Berbatov should be up top, and Rooney playing behind. If it were that simple I'd say it'd have happened already. Given Berbatov doesn't score many goals whatever, playing Rooney deeper probably means he'll score less goals...

I don't have a problem with the shape of the team as it is. I just think Berbatov has to play better than he has done thus far. And part of that has to be showing a bit more bloody energy and desire

Damnit, Berbatov. You're a brilliant player. Get your shit together.

Trigg · 7th January 2010, 16:20

I'd like to see Berbatov as the furthest forward personally. I think Rooney is equally as good in playing right up top or dropping back.

I may be totally wrong but I think its worth a try none the less. Berbatov as looked for more dangerous this season for us than he did for large parts last season and I don't thik it coincidence that he's played further forward than he has done last season.

Berbatov looks a totally different Berbatov to the one we've seen at United so far, that much is true.

Trigg · 7th January 2010, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Exactly. That is why Berba should be given the more restrictive role in the box and Rooney be allowed to do what he wills, the way we used to do for Ronaldo, playing off him.

Thats the idea that I have in my head too. Rooney is brilliant at finding space for himself and he loves to be on the ball all the time. Thing is he's played very well so far this season and scored goals so maybe I've got it all wrong.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 7th January 2010, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigg

Thats the idea that I have in my head too. Rooney is brilliant at finding space for himself and he loves to be on the ball all the time. Thing is he's played very well so far this season and scored goals so maybe I've got it all wrong.

You haven oggten it wrong at all. It's just Rooney's finishing and awareness has improved. So he is now excellent in the role up top. But IMO there is no reason why we haven't gone the England route and set up the team to get the best out of Rooney. After all he is our best player now. we did it for Ronaldo so we Should do it for him.

He should be given a license to roam off and around Berbatov, while under instruction to never ever track back. IMO he'd thrive like that. Quenching all his energy in the attacking third of the field. & Berb would be able to pick him and Valencia out for us to get goals, when they make runs into the box.

I had thought when the season started a player like Nani would have benefited most from this because of his shooting prowess (community shield, wigan vs us first leg) but after a good start his season stalled some what.

vuc · 7th January 2010, 16:35

Its confusing, I would have thought Berbatov up top and Rooney behind him would be a lot lot better. That clip of him at Spurs is brilliant, he was fucking brilliant at Spurs both in scoring the goals and creating them.

unitedbhoy · 7th January 2010, 17:08

What is it with Berbatov and not being able to play a more advanced role as he did in his years at Tottenham and Leverkusen. What is it about United that makes him want to play so deep. He has pretty much completely changed his style of play since he has coem to Old Trafford. Is it that Fergie is telling him to play more deep so Rooney can develop more of a striker role or is it just a lazy mentality?

Shimo · 7th January 2010, 17:15

I don't think the Owen / Rooney partnership works well. Forgetting the past but, on evidence of the play this season, Rooney has not been as good in the hole and creating.

Perhaps that is just a question of form but, all the the things that make him good in the hole, holding up possession, making the short pass or little flicks, dribbling at defenders - he has been no where near as good as the past. In some areas he's been down right woeful.

As for his best position being known. Perhaps with the right partner but, with the current partnership, it is not his best position for the team. I think you get more out of Berbatov playing deeper. I guess can be angry about not having the right situation where Rooney is partnered with a player that sees him playing in his best position but, we have who we have. You don't always play a player in their best position depending on the make up of the rest of the team.

Rooney I think in this partnership and current form is more effective up front. I don't think he SAF is trying to turn him into a No. 9 but, just the way it's panning out.

I get we haven't been having a great season performance wise but, we've had lot of things that have prevented the partnership from taking flight other than the form of both players. I'll reserve my final judgement till I see us getting a settled team - with real defenders and a midfield that isn't different every game behind them.

Adzzz · 7th January 2010, 17:19

Berbatov needs to get his shit together, looking back at that you can remember why we signed him, thats the player I remember wanting.

Nick 0208 Ldn · 7th January 2010, 17:42

Berba has shown his pedigree when being the only shark in the sea down at Spurs, but now surrounded by other predators he's shrinking back from the all you can eat seafood buffet.

This is far more to do with mentality or desire or the lack thereof at this level than where he is on the pitch for my money. And if he can't make serious strides in the immediate future i don't see how we can continue to trust him, the horizon soon filled with do or die matches against Arsenal and Milan to name but two [or Fergie at least put him on a par with Owen in terms of status].

Scholesy · 7th January 2010, 17:44

That Berba video makes me cry.

I cant believe Fergie is wasting Rooney playing him right up top. He is an amazing player in the hole. Amazing.

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7th January 2010, 00:51	#2 (permalink)
Allforone First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: United could spend £85million on David De Gea, Phil Jones, Ashley Young and Wesley Sneijder. Quote: Liverpool spent £85million on Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing. Posts: 11,599	Weve seemingly become obsessed with trying to turn Rooney into and Number 9 wrongly in my humble opinion but thats where Sir Alex has said numerous times now he sees Rooneys future, we play Berbatov to deep and in general the front 2 again in my view are played in the wrong manner, Berbatov should be the focal point with Rooney the one allowed to drift just behind him a role Rooneys time and again said is his prefered one, for some reason we play them the other way round and i dont think it gets the best out of either. I think wed be better off with a front pairing of this: ......................Rooney ...............Berbatov Rather Than this: ......................Berbatov ..............Rooney Theres no doubt Berbatov is a far better central focal point striker than an off the front link man his goalscoring records at internaional level for Bulgaria and with Tottenham clearly show this.

7th January 2010, 00:53	#3 (permalink)
OneUnited24 First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,732	Personally if SAF sees something in Rooney and thinks that he can play upfront then so be it, its clear that he rates Rooney to lead the line ahead of Berbatov (something Berba did while at tottenham) so there must be some thinking behind it that and i believe its because SAF reckons Rooney will develop into a out and out striker so many here are craving but it will take a while and i think he knows this but is willing to keep Rooney up there so he starts to gain more experience in that position. Benefit of that would be he still has the work-rate, he'll drop deep when he wants to start things off/drive the team on but he'll do it from a more advanced position

7th January 2010, 01:04	#6 (permalink)
charlenefan First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,791	It's problem with strikers full stop these days, they all want to be a number 10 i.e. 'playing in the hole' the days of traditional number 9's where a striker wants to be the furthest forward playing on the shoulder of defences and always in and around the penalty area are unfortunately a dying breed I think it was clear when we signed Berbatov he the type of striker that links play much like Rooney but we still went ahead and signed him anyway I honestly dont think it's a coincidence that Rooney two best periods for us was his second season when playing behind Ruud and then the second half of that season/beginning of his third season paying behind Saha neither of whom got involved in dropping deep wanting to link play

7th January 2010, 02:34	#11 (permalink)
B Cantona Desperate Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hated, Adored, Never Ignored Posts: 40,401	Rooney is fine. Play him up front and central, but let him drift wide and deeper What he needs is a proper striker alongside him He doesn't have that right now Can't believe what Fergie said by the way. We can't get our 2nd highest scorer (despite playing a paltry amount of games) into the team? Why is that then? I'm not having it that Rooney plays too similar to Owen, or that they're incapable of playing together. I think Ferguson has been blinded by his Berba mistake

7th January 2010, 02:49	#12 (permalink)
Count Duckula Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. Posts: 16,104	Basically, then, what has happened is Sir Alex is so desperate to fit Berbatov into this team that he's actually gone on record saying that Rooney has to play up front - when every man and his fucking dog knows Rooney's best position is behind another striker. His best form for us, his best form for Everton, and, recently, his best form for England have all come when he's the "second striker". But so desperate is our illustrious boss to prove he didn't make a ludicrously expensive mistake that he's willing to fuck Rooney over just to try and shoehorn Berbatov into the team. I await the day with baited breath we get that fucking lazy cunt out of the team and get a proper striker for our best player to play alongside and actually perform as well as he can. This is why I despise Berbatov being in the team. Not because of his laziness, the way he kills all our attacks with his pointless dallying, or the fact that despite his pricetag a nun will score more times; but because by constantly playing him in a desperate hope that he'll finally "click" we're fucking over by far the best player in our side at the moment.

7th January 2010, 03:00	#15 (permalink)
Count Duckula Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. Posts: 16,104	But Berbatov didn't play as an out-and-out striker for Tottenham. He played alongside Robbie Keane, with whom he worked brilliantly... but that's because he could sit in the hole with little flicks whilst Keane (quicker and a much better finisher than Rooney) got on the end of everything. Rooney is not Robbie Keane. He's a much, much better player, but his skillset does not match up perfectly with Berbatov's in the same way. Those two completed each other, and I don't find it surprising that as soon as they were seperated they suddenly became much worse off, despite moving to better teams and thus being surrounded by better players. One of them didn't become worse off whilst the other improved, showing who was the real star of the partnership; they both dropped down a level. It was a textbook case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

7th January 2010, 03:10	#16 (permalink)
B Cantona Desperate Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hated, Adored, Never Ignored Posts: 40,401	1:14 on that clip When have you ever seen him burst into life in a United shirt like that?! Yes he has the same great touch as then, but where's the burst of energy? The desire to get to the ball first? The constant clever movement to make space?! It's all very well saying Berbatov should be up top, and Rooney playing behind. If it were that simple I'd say it'd have happened already. Given Berbatov doesn't score many goals whatever, playing Rooney deeper probably means he'll score less goals... I don't have a problem with the shape of the team as it is. I just think Berbatov has to play better than he has done thus far. And part of that has to be showing a bit more bloody energy and desire

7th January 2010, 03:21	#17 (permalink)
McLovin Bites pillows thinking of John Terry Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, la la la Posts: 9,643	Some fantastic goals in that clip. I agree with you, Brad, it's high time he start doing that for us by instilling some desire into his play.

7th January 2010, 03:21	#18 (permalink)
TheReligion First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,470	That video has pissed me off Brad What the fuck is wrong with you Berbatov? Why can't you run fast for us?

7th January 2010, 03:24	#19 (permalink)
Alex Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ____ Posts: 42,243	Low on confidence and doesn t know where he fits in

7th January 2010, 03:27	#20 (permalink)
VoetbalWizard First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: at the altar of ryan giggs Posts: 10,453	is capello managing rooney better than saf then due to playing rooney in his 'best' position?

7th January 2010, 07:58	#23 (permalink)
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysareus.com Posts: 38,472	The problem is SAF wont play Berba as the man further up top, with Rooney in a free role.

7th January 2010, 09:13	#26 (permalink)
devilish Protomuppet Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cnut's home Posts: 25,110	I still believe that Rooney's best role is that of a link man where his workrate and his ability to get from deep and exploit the spaces created by the main striker can be exploited. If SAF is determined not to play him in that role then we need a fantasista who can actually score loads of goals (Robbie Baggio type). Whatever happens I hope that SAF stick Rooney to one position and keep him there. We are ruining the kid.

7th January 2010, 10:21	#28 (permalink)
blythy Fascist Dictator Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 25,103	We don't "fit" Rooney, we build around him.

7th January 2010, 16:20	#32 (permalink)
Trigg aka Trippin_Stoned Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,844	I'd like to see Berbatov as the furthest forward personally. I think Rooney is equally as good in playing right up top or dropping back. I may be totally wrong but I think its worth a try none the less. Berbatov as looked for more dangerous this season for us than he did for large parts last season and I don't thik it coincidence that he's played further forward than he has done last season. Berbatov looks a totally different Berbatov to the one we've seen at United so far, that much is true.

7th January 2010, 16:35	#35 (permalink)
vuc First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Северна Страна Posts: 8,545	Its confusing, I would have thought Berbatov up top and Rooney behind him would be a lot lot better. That clip of him at Spurs is brilliant, he was fucking brilliant at Spurs both in scoring the goals and creating them.

7th January 2010, 17:08	#36 (permalink)
unitedbhoy Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Newry, Co.Down Posts: 2,188	What is it with Berbatov and not being able to play a more advanced role as he did in his years at Tottenham and Leverkusen. What is it about United that makes him want to play so deep. He has pretty much completely changed his style of play since he has coem to Old Trafford. Is it that Fergie is telling him to play more deep so Rooney can develop more of a striker role or is it just a lazy mentality?

7th January 2010, 17:15	#37 (permalink)
Shimo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,707	I don't think the Owen / Rooney partnership works well. Forgetting the past but, on evidence of the play this season, Rooney has not been as good in the hole and creating. Perhaps that is just a question of form but, all the the things that make him good in the hole, holding up possession, making the short pass or little flicks, dribbling at defenders - he has been no where near as good as the past. In some areas he's been down right woeful. As for his best position being known. Perhaps with the right partner but, with the current partnership, it is not his best position for the team. I think you get more out of Berbatov playing deeper. I guess can be angry about not having the right situation where Rooney is partnered with a player that sees him playing in his best position but, we have who we have. You don't always play a player in their best position depending on the make up of the rest of the team. Rooney I think in this partnership and current form is more effective up front. I don't think he SAF is trying to turn him into a No. 9 but, just the way it's panning out. I get we haven't been having a great season performance wise but, we've had lot of things that have prevented the partnership from taking flight other than the form of both players. I'll reserve my final judgement till I see us getting a settled team - with real defenders and a midfield that isn't different every game behind them.

7th January 2010, 17:19	#38 (permalink)
Adzzz Astrophysical Genius Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Asagan, for Sagat X is the true path. Sir Alex - you're an old dick, but I respect you. Posts: 20,907	Berbatov needs to get his shit together, looking back at that you can remember why we signed him, thats the player I remember wanting.

7th January 2010, 17:42	#39 (permalink)
Nick 0208 Ldn News 24 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: In the spirit of Jane Lane. Posts: 12,070	Berba has shown his pedigree when being the only shark in the sea down at Spurs, but now surrounded by other predators he's shrinking back from the all you can eat seafood buffet. This is far more to do with mentality or desire or the lack thereof at this level than where he is on the pitch for my money. And if he can't make serious strides in the immediate future i don't see how we can continue to trust him, the horizon soon filled with do or die matches against Arsenal and Milan to name but two [or Fergie at least put him on a par with Owen in terms of status].

7th January 2010, 17:44	#40 (permalink)
Scholesy Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 'And Solskjær has won it' Posts: 9,484	That Berba video makes me cry. I cant believe Fergie is wasting Rooney playing him right up top. He is an amazing player in the hole. Amazing.