Where are the goals going to come from? Part 2

Ekeke · 13th August 2009, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

Fergie has targeted the 100 goal mark in all competitions. I think these are pretty reasonable (and in some cases conservative) estimates of what our players will achieve.

Rooney - 20
Berbatov - 15
Owen - 15
Welbeck - 5
Macheda - 5
Nani - 5
Valencia - 5
Park - 4
Giggs - 2
Carrick - 4
Fletcher - 4
Anderson - 1
Hargreaves - 2
Scholes - 2
Gibson - 2
Vidic - 4
Evra/Rafael/Brown/O'Shea/Ferdinand - 5 (min)

So, that's 100 goals, and I don't think any of those tallies are too outrageous. Berbatov could easily break 15. Nani could get into double figures. Any one of Welbeck, Macheda or Valencia could improve on 5 if they have a good season. Other players could surprise by scoring more (I'd tip Gibson).

I'd be willing to wager with any doom-mongering rival fan (or pessimistic United fan) that we'll score more this season than last.

Depends how far we go in competitions. Those tallies are all fine as long as each of those players gets plenty of playing time. Thats where your estimates may come unstuck. For example, Rooney and Berbatov - to reach their totals you have come up with there, they are going to have to play a large majority of matches. And that may not leave enough for Owen to get 15.

Kraftwerker · 13th August 2009, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

Depends how far we go in competitions. Those tallies are all fine as long as each of those players gets plenty of playing time. Thats where your estimates may come unstuck. For example, Rooney and Berbatov - to reach their totals you have come up with there, they are going to have to play a large majority of matches. And that may not leave enough for Owen to get 15.

Berbatov was often dropped for Tevez last season, and still managed 15, despite it supposedly being a poor year for him. He's easily capable of it again.

Ekeke · 13th August 2009, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

Berbatov was often dropped for Tevez last season, and still managed 15, despite it supposedly being a poor year for him. He's easily capable of it again.

You're right, im confusing myself with premiership only and all competition totals.

I think Berbatov and Rooney could achieve those totals in the league alone if they have a good season and play the vast majority of matches as first and second choice.

Mr. MUJAC · 14th August 2009, 11:15

Forget all competitions for a minute and just look at the league.

Ronaldo scored 18 and Tevez 5

That means that we need to get 23 goals to equal last years.

We still have a rock solid defence in general so we don't need to score three goals a game or anything like that.

So 23 goals?

If Owen is seen as a direct replacement for Tevez......do you think he will score more than five goals?

If yes.....then we only need another 18 from the rest of the squad. Valencia has been bought and may score a handful. That's 13 we need now.

So can Berbatov, Rooney, Welbeck and Macheda score an additional 13 goals between them?

I don't know but with Rooney playing more up front and Berbatov in his second season it's more than possible.

Personally I'm not worried about our goalscoring.

Kraftwerker · 14th August 2009, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekeke

You're right, im confusing myself with premiership only and all competition totals.

I think Berbatov and Rooney could achieve those totals in the league alone if they have a good season and play the vast majority of matches as first and second choice.

I hope you're right. My predictions were conservative as they include all competitions, but if we score 100 goals we'll have more than covered the loss of Ronaldo (and Tevez).

Cling Bak · 14th August 2009, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

Rooney - 20
Berbatov - 15
Owen - 15
Welbeck - 5
Macheda - 5
Nani - 5
Valencia - 5
Park - 4
Giggs - 2
Carrick - 4
Fletcher - 4
Anderson - 1
Hargreaves - 2
Scholes - 2
Gibson - 2
Vidic - 4
Evra/Rafael/Brown/O'Shea/Ferdinand - 5 (min)

So, that's 100 goals, and I don't think any of those tallies are too outrageous.

Seems realistic enough. To look at last season:

Rooney - 17
Berbatov - 14
Nani - 6
Vidic - 5
Park - 4
Giggs - 4
Carrick - 4
Fletcher - 3
Welbeck - 3
Scholes - 3
Macheda - 2
Gibson - 2
O'Shea - 2
Rafael - 1
Brown - 1

Ronaldo & Tevez - 40

Total* - 111 goals

*I have removed any goals scored in Club World Cup and Super Cup - we won't play in these extra games, it's therefore pointless for us to need to score those extra goals.

This goes back to a post I made on 1st page about making up the difference (in Ronaldo and Tevez's case - 40 goals difference).

Rooney can score more, I'd say about 6 more if he plays through the centre. He got 23 in 2006/07, why not again?

Berbatov scored 23 in each of his 2 seasons at Tottenham, as well. He should score 20 goals.

Nani's scored 4 and 6 for us respectively. People are hoping for him to rise to the occasion now, which I believe he can. If he repeats 6 it wouldn't be bad going if Valencia did the same.

Owen is capable of scoring 10 and I agree he can push 15. His fitness is dependent there.

Whoever takes penalties (Carrick or Nani?) can add 5 or 6 to their tally by default (I don't know how many Ronaldo was putting away per season so that's a guesstimate based on the penalty taker being any good).

The extras in my quick tallies above total (Rooney +6, Berbatov +4, Valencia +6, Owen +10, penalty taker +6) is 32. Anything Anderson does would also automatically add to that! Not to mention Tosic and Obertan.

thoward · 14th August 2009, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. MUJAC

Forget all competitions for a minute and just look at the league.

Ronaldo scored 18 and Tevez 5

That means that we need to get 23 goals to equal last years.

We still have a rock solid defence in general so we don't need to score three goals a game or anything like that.

So 23 goals?

If Owen is seen as a direct replacement for Tevez......do you think he will score more than five goals?

If yes.....then we only need another 18 from the rest of the squad. Valencia has been bought and may score a handful. That's 13 we need now.

So can Berbatov, Rooney, Welbeck and Macheda score an additional 13 goals between them?

I don't know but with Rooney playing more up front and Berbatov in his second season it's more than possible.

Personally I'm not worried about our goalscoring.

Ronaldo scored 4 of his 18 league goals from penalties as well to make the task of making up the 23 goals somwhat less daunting.

kouroux · 14th August 2009, 11:39

Knowing that we don't have a real clinical finisher (even Owen isn't that anymore) it's a bit worrying cause I don't expect that the likes of Rooney and Berbatov will suddenly score more than last season.
Rooney specially for all his talent with a better focus could easily hit about 30 goals but he just won't do it at the moment.I'm genuinely worried as I was 3 years ago and just because the team adapted very well at the time it doesn't mean it'll happen again

CptMarvel · 14th August 2009, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouroux

Knowing that we don't have a real clinical finisher (even Owen isn't that anymore) it's a bit worrying cause I don't expect that the likes of Rooney and Berbatov will suddenly score more than last season.
Rooney specially for all his talent with a better focus could easily hit about 30 goals but he just won't do it at the moment.I'm genuinely worried as I was 3 years ago and just because the team adapted very well at the time it doesn't mean it'll happen again

They wont suddenly score more than last season, it'll be gradual and you wont even notice it till after its happened.

ALX8725 · 14th August 2009, 18:08

Petrucci and Ljajic

kouroux · 15th August 2009, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptMarvel

They wont suddenly score more than last season, it'll be gradual and you wont even notice it till after its happened.

Yeah right

djemba's arse · 19th August 2009, 21:56

I'm slightly worried.

We weren't good going forward last season, but we had Ronaldo who delivered goals out of nothing every other game. We're not looking any better now, but this time we haven't got such a player.

Rooney and Berbatov would be fine if we had goals coming from midfield, but we don't.

FreakyJim · 19th August 2009, 21:57

it will somehow sort itself out

Twisted_Woody · 6th September 2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakyJim

it will somehow sort itself out

Diaby.

Carl · 6th September 2009, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted_Woody

Diaby.

Excellent

Twisted_Woody · 21st September 2009, 00:41

When was the last time Fletcher scored twice in a match?

pillory · 21st September 2009, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted_Woody

When was the last time Fletcher scored twice in a match?

That wonderful FA cup game against Arsenal in 07/08. Two headers then as now. The first one was even deflected in.

charlenefan · 21st September 2009, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted_Woody

When was the last time Fletcher scored twice in a match?

v Arsenal two seasons ago when we beat them 4-0 in the FA Cup, both goals that day were headers as well, with one looking suspiciously like it was going wide before it was deflected into the net by an opposition player (Gallas in this case)

golden_blunder · 22nd September 2009, 18:58

Last season, first 6 league matches resulted in 8 goals for.

This season, first 6 league matches has resulted in 15 goals for.

Where will the goals come from?

HsJ · 22nd September 2009, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

Last season, first 6 league matches resulted in 8 goals for.

This season, first 6 league matches has resulted in 15 goals for.

Where will the goals come from?

Who would have thought Darren Fletcher was a footballing genius.

Doogie · 22nd September 2009, 19:08

Interesting though that the players mentioned in the original post have only got 3 goals between them and three of them haven't played at all.

Nick 0208 Ldn · 22nd September 2009, 19:19

You do recall the gulf in quality of opposition and tactics employed between 08/09 and 09/10 i trust? I mean before we start handing out the honours.

golden_blunder · 22nd September 2009, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick 0208 Ldn

You do recall the gulf in quality of opposition and tactics employed between 08/09 and 09/10 i trust? I mean before we start handing out the honours.

I would consider our first 6 league games to be more tricky overall than last season

Last Season
Newcastle WON 1-0
Portsmouth WON 1-0
Liverpool LOST 1-2
Chelsea DREW 1-1
Bolton WON 2-0
Blackburn WON 2-0

This Season
Birmingham WON 1-0
Burnley LOST 1-0 (how!?!?)
Wigan WON 5-0
Arsenal WON 2-1
Spurs WON 3-1
City WON 4-3

Considering Ronaldo was out injured in this period last season, our tactics weren't a kick in the arse off what they are now. We were however trying to bed in a new forward (Berba)

Still, everyone questioned where the goals would come from this season. How would we make up Ronaldos 30+ a season?
15 goals so far is a bloody good start

Spoony Kobayashi · 22nd September 2009, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

Still, everyone questioned where the goals would come from this season. How would we make up Ronaldos 30+ a season?
15 goals so far is a bloody good start

Rooney.

Boss · 22nd September 2009, 19:48

Can't wait for Berba to start chipping in with some goals, the future is very bright for this fantastic club. Four in a row, without doubt.

CantonasWife · 5th December 2009, 16:33

Apparently from Gibson...

charleysurf · 5th December 2009, 16:35

And Valencia

Twisted_Woody · 5th December 2009, 17:20

And Rooney

Cling Bak · 31st December 2009, 15:20

I've had a look at last season's totals and this and made a little graph to show the findings so far.

Anything in addition to last season (like Anderson, Valencia or Owen scoring) go onto the 'Missing Ronaldo?' column, to try and make up his 25 goals. We would also need all the rest to at least equal last season's tallies, some already have, some are pretty close.

Note: I have not included goals last season in Super Cup or CWC.

31st December 2009, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wan

...

Xander45 · 31st December 2009, 15:30

Nice graph, i like the effort put in.

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14th August 2009, 11:15	#44 (permalink)
Mr. MUJAC Talent spotter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Louis Rocca started it all... Posts: 4,185	Forget all competitions for a minute and just look at the league. Ronaldo scored 18 and Tevez 5 That means that we need to get 23 goals to equal last years. We still have a rock solid defence in general so we don't need to score three goals a game or anything like that. So 23 goals? If Owen is seen as a direct replacement for Tevez......do you think he will score more than five goals? If yes.....then we only need another 18 from the rest of the squad. Valencia has been bought and may score a handful. That's 13 we need now. So can Berbatov, Rooney, Welbeck and Macheda score an additional 13 goals between them? I don't know but with Rooney playing more up front and Berbatov in his second season it's more than possible. Personally I'm not worried about our goalscoring.

14th August 2009, 11:39	#48 (permalink)
kouroux No Lifer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Djibouti (La terre des braves) Posts: 32,539	Knowing that we don't have a real clinical finisher (even Owen isn't that anymore) it's a bit worrying cause I don't expect that the likes of Rooney and Berbatov will suddenly score more than last season. Rooney specially for all his talent with a better focus could easily hit about 30 goals but he just won't do it at the moment.I'm genuinely worried as I was 3 years ago and just because the team adapted very well at the time it doesn't mean it'll happen again

14th August 2009, 18:08	#50 (permalink)
ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY Join Date: May 2007 Location: Take Me Home, United Road. To The Place I Belong, To Old Trafford, To See United. Take Me Home, United Road. Posts: 4,572	Petrucci and Ljajic

19th August 2009, 21:56	#52 (permalink)
djemba's arse Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Trophy Room Funny Posts: 2 Posts: 2,657	I'm slightly worried. We weren't good going forward last season, but we had Ronaldo who delivered goals out of nothing every other game. We're not looking any better now, but this time we haven't got such a player. Rooney and Berbatov would be fine if we had goals coming from midfield, but we don't.

19th August 2009, 21:57	#53 (permalink)
FreakyJim Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SolarX Posts: 4,031	it will somehow sort itself out

21st September 2009, 00:41	#56 (permalink)
Twisted_Woody Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,623	When was the last time Fletcher scored twice in a match?

22nd September 2009, 18:58	#59 (permalink)
golden_blunder Back in action Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: In the shadows fighting e-crime Posts: 66,510	Last season, first 6 league matches resulted in 8 goals for. This season, first 6 league matches has resulted in 15 goals for. Where will the goals come from?

22nd September 2009, 19:08	#61 (permalink)
Doogie Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: D4 Posts: 3,222	Interesting though that the players mentioned in the original post have only got 3 goals between them and three of them haven't played at all.

22nd September 2009, 19:19	#62 (permalink)
Nick 0208 Ldn News 24 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: "I'd also like to remind you that we've had bad times here. The club stood by me. All my staff stood by me. The players stood by me. So your job now is to stand by our new manager. That is important. " Posts: 15,425	You do recall the gulf in quality of opposition and tactics employed between 08/09 and 09/10 i trust? I mean before we start handing out the honours.

22nd September 2009, 19:48	#65 (permalink)
Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: I left you with enough memories to resurrect me with Posts: 24,076	Can't wait for Berba to start chipping in with some goals, the future is very bright for this fantastic club. Four in a row, without doubt.

5th December 2009, 16:33	#66 (permalink)
CantonasWife Queen B Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: What? Fucking what!? Posts: 3,809	Apparently from Gibson...

5th December 2009, 16:35	#67 (permalink)
charleysurf Talks sense Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,239	And Valencia

5th December 2009, 17:20	#68 (permalink)
Twisted_Woody Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,623	And Rooney

31st December 2009, 15:20	#69 (permalink)
Cling Bak Hi, I'm Barry Scott Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6,982	I've had a look at last season's totals and this and made a little graph to show the findings so far. Anything in addition to last season (like Anderson, Valencia or Owen scoring) go onto the 'Missing Ronaldo?' column, to try and make up his 25 goals. We would also need all the rest to at least equal last season's tallies, some already have, some are pretty close. Note: I have not included goals last season in Super Cup or CWC.

31st December 2009, 15:30	#71 (permalink)
Xander45 Know-It-All Champion May 2009 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Fratton Park, play up Pompey! Posts: 20,328	Nice graph, i like the effort put in.