Why cant we score from corners?

SecondFig

Something Ronaldo and Vidic show too - yes they're both big and strong, but it's as much about the desire to drive to get your head onto the ball. Cahill is similar, but in his case it's also about perfect timing, movement and an amazing leap for a small lad.

Anyone know if Dzeko is any good in the air? I know he's 6'3 so you'd expect him to be - but then Kenwyne Jones and Crouch are both tall as fuck and neither have impressed me in the air.

I_live_cement

No it hasn't, it's always mentioned.

Name Changed

These players are good headers, yet they never really score from corners? That doesn't really make much sense. There is no reason why teams can defend corners against us far more effectively than against other teams.

Fletcher is a determined player and he will get stuck in, but he is not that good in the air that he scores from corners. I don't remember one anyway.

Berbatov has missed some tough chances with his head, but also missed some complete sitters.

Scoring with your head from corners and scoring with your head from open play in a completely different scenario. Scoring from corners is usually about your general strength in the air plus power etc and an ability to beat defenders in the air. Scoring from open play with your head is a lot easier as you often don't actually have to beat the defenders in the air. Positioning is the vital ingredient, as Rooney has shown this season.

Sure, we have good headers of the ball, but when push comes to shove, Vidic is the only player who is a consistent threat for corners, which was my original point. If that were not the case, then Ferdinand, Rooney, Berbatov and Fletcher (the 4 examples you gave) would be scoring from corners now and again.

Chadwick's Acne

But as I've already pointed out, it's not just us that are suffering. The way teams defend (by pulling everyone back into the box) and the fact that a large majority of corners end up as freekicks for the defending team has lowered the amount of goals scored from corners.

Add to that the fact we haven't had a consistent corner taker and it's going to be an issue, not necessarily the fault of those in the box.

Ask yourself when the last time was that you saw dangerous balls whipped in during a United game and you'll see what I mean.

Devilton

Ever since Ronaldo left we lack a forward who really attacks the ball in the air. Rooney to his credit has gotten a lot better with his headers, but against a tall defender he's always going to find life difficult. Berba's heading for a big man is woeful. In fact, there are times he looks more like a central defender when he's attacking a corner. Everything that touches his head either goes straight to the keeper, or out. Our centrebacks need to step up as well I think (though having said that, it's not really their job to get us goals). Vidic always looks dangerous, but Evans has been disappointing whenever he's been in the box (just gets blocked off way too easily).

Finally...the delivery. It's just not good enough. Giggs lofts the ball in and it takes forever and can get easily snuffed out. Nani is very hit and miss. We have missed the swinging corners that Becks used to deliver.

Hopefully Hargreaves will return to his best and help out with freekicks too, cause that's another area that we just aren't as good at with Ronaldo gone. We don't win enough freekicks, and when we do, we convert even less.

Rooney bless him has been excellent, but his long range shooting and freekicks really need to be worked on this season. It's like he's gone backwards in both departments since he made his debut for us.

SecondFig

Sorry, didn't mean that it was unrecognised, more that when people discuss what we lost when he left, they focus upon his general play - rather than his aerial threat.

redfromcanada

I don't think United have enough players bar Vidic and maybe Rooney who do attack the ball on corners coming in. If they did then perhaps more goals would come.

Secondly, I do agree that United need a free kick specialist to step up which is why perhaps Tosic should stay. A good free kick taker can cause all sorts of problems for an opposing keeper and defense. As for Rooney's inability to take them, I don't think that matters so much. I would rather want Rooney around the six yard box to pick up scraps if a keeper isn't able to save the free kick attempt as he is the best at the club in doing so.

Name Changed

As I specified in my first post which you opposed, I do think that the main reason for our lack of goals from corners is our inability to take good corners.

I then said the Vidic is our only real threat in the air, from corners obviously. (as in consistently a threat, he scored a lot more than anyone else).

So essentially, after a couple of to and fro posts, you've agreed there or thereabouts with my original post.

Chadwick's Acne

What the fuck are you on about?

The point I opposed in your post was your claim as follows (see posts 29 and 30 and the text that I deliberately didn't quote);

Nothing in what I've said in this thread suggests I disagree with the point regarding United's crossing ability (which we have both acknowledged to be quite poor, or inconsistent dependent on how you interpret our point).

I disagree that Vidic is our only threat in the air.

Sir A1ex

We can score from corners.

We just choose not to.

Maroon Lucifer

Next season Vidic and Ferdinand will be known and feared as the Luftwaffe. I hope

jojojo

Good perspective. I like it. Corners are for wimps.

Rooney's become good in the air by positioning himself better and practising a lot. Who's to say he won't add "good in a crowded box" to his repertoire next year? Though I admit I can't see it myself - I tend to think of Rooney as more a looking for the loose ball at the edge of the area at the corner man really.

I think you can get part of the story from the 2009 Inter QF. First half the Inter defence followed Ronaldo and Vidic scored. Second half they followed Vidic and Ronaldo scored. It's not just about the corner takers it's about the team in the box messing up the defence.

Snow

Can't really agree with you. Ferdinand has scored 10 goals in his career. That's a clear sign that he's no threat really. And that's going back to '96.
Fletcher has 14 career goals. I don't remember any of them being with a header.
Berbatov can win headers but he usually doesn't convert them to goals.
Rooney's got no chance of scoring from a header when marked.

And our delivery is average as best. We need Nani or Giggs on a really good day to provide some good corners. Or maybe they just have this feeling subconsciously that it probably will not end up as a goal and therefor the kick won't be as good as it should.

AttackingFlair

Didn't we score from a corner last game?

jojojo

Twice I think

Vidic header and a scramble?

And Park - that was at a corner yes?

unitedbhoy

I think that Park goal was the first goal we scored directly from a corner all season. We are generally terrible from corners.

Moultz

because we dont get them past the front post?

Chadwick's Acne

I see what you're saying and agree but I still stand by my point that those players should/can score more from set-pieces. However, as I've also pointed out the game has changed so that corners don't seem to be as beneficial nowadays.

Put it this way, if we had a Beckham firing the ball in from corners, I'd expect those players to score a lot more as they're all good in the air and the delivery would be near perfect.

Something else that I've not added is the fact that more teams seem to play short corners which typically means the ball is curving away from goal, whereas corners used to always be about swinging the ball in on top of the keeper. I think part of that is due to the fact that keepers are so well protected nowadays.

EvilChuck

I think it is as simple as this. We dont really concede from corners and set pieces either, so we in theory do have a few players good in the air for this type of thing. If we could get a consistently good delivery, or at least more than one decent one every few games I think we'd score more from corners and free kicks

ALX8725

it's funny how people keep throwing Rooney's name into the discussion even though he has NEVER been a consistent header threat in set pieces. Just because he is great at several things doesn't mean he automatically is great at EVERYTHING


Just because he is United's best player doesn't mean he has to be included in all threads about any specific ability in the game. He does have his weaknesses you know

Minkaro

I don't think it can be attributed to one thing.

Delivery - sometimes Nani actually manages to get the ball into good positions in the box. Giggsy just seems to aim for the person closest to him, regardless of who they actually play for. This can of course be remedied by ordering Nani to practise corners in training. We don't need to go mad and hire someone just because they're good at a set-piece (otherwise we'd have brought Delap).

Attacking the ball - nobody seems to want to do it. Vidic is obviously our best header of a ball, but having one guy in the box to aim for just isn't good enough. Evra has also shown some ability in the air in defensive situations, but I'd rather have him back in case of a counter attack. Our taller players (of which we don't have many) need to make more of a nuisance of themselves. Ferdinand might want to try doing something useful, rather than that bizarre backheel he seems to like.

Chadwick's Acne

The point regarding Rooney is that he is a determined player who has improved his ability in the air beyond measure, whip the ball in at pace and there's no reason why he shouldn't be deadly at corners.

This.

wr8_utd

Vidic had scored against Wolves

MauritianRed

Fletcher has scored quite a few headers actually.. Looped header vs Chelsea springs to mind, but I also think he scored a few headers a couple of years ago against Boro and I cna't remember who - maybe Bolton.

Chadwick's Acne

Also worth pointing out that you don't have to score a header, as long as the ball is whipped in at pace into a dangerous area you'll always have a chance at scoring from it.

MauritianRed

Sure.

Going back to Fletch - he headed a brace vs Arse in 2008 as well. I am sure he has scored more goals by head than by feet.

Snow

Like I said, don't remember them

MauritianRed

Sure.

Going back to Fletch - he headed a brace vs Arse in 2008 as well. I am sure he has scored more goals by head than by feet.

Chadwick's Acne

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samabachan

I think we always suffer from average delivery - Carrick and Gibson take the best corners in the team but the management seem to think that because they are tall we'd be better off with them in the box, which is all well and good if the ball never beats the first man.

AttackingFlair

How can you not remember Fletcher's headers against City?

Chadwick's Acne

Shoosh, don't present fact otherwise they won't have anything to moan about barring Berbatov.

Snow

I'm pretty sure Schmeichel scored more career goals than Ferdinand. I have no faith in his goalscoring ability with his head.

The thing is that there is a vast difference in heading the ball unchallenged and heading the ball with a player nudging you. We only have one player who can challenge effectively for the ball in the air with a man hanging on to him.
All players are capable of scoring with headers. Park and Scholes did so recently. But you wouldn't put your money on them scoring from a corner with their head if given the odds 100.0 and a minimum of ten dollars. That would be a big risk in losing a tenner.

Ferdinand is a bad example. He's had a season playing with Beckham and many years with England. The deliverance is no excuse. Vidic hammered them in whilst Ronaldo was here. Ronaldo did as well. Ferdinand never has. Because he's rubbish at it.

Rooney's scored a lot of headers this season. Been excellent. He's no threat in corners though. His best position in set pieces is outside the box with Scholes.

Fletcher has some headers in his lifetime. Good for him. Doesn't mean anything other than it happens to everybody. I've even scored from a corner. I was always one of the smallest kids in the first team growing up. Defending I take care of either posts. If I was a forward I was on the keeper. One time I managed to sneak in front of the first man and head it into the near corner. Wasn't a good corner kick and I'm rubbish at heading. Don't think I've ever won a header after a corner asides from that goal.

With a brilliant set pieces taker we'd be so much more dangerous. It'll even be in our advantage to bring someone on who'd only be an average player on the pitch for us but would be a brilliant set pieces taker. We get so many chances. It's sad to watch this.

3or 4 years ago 50% of all of Lyon's goals came either directly from a free kick by Juninho or indirectly from a set piece. Nakamura was the only difference one season when we didn't beat Celtic in the CL. Peter Wittingham has been lethal for Cardiff. Where would they be if he'd had a two month injury?

In a game where we can't catch a break against a side that plays with 11 men behind ball, Blackburn, set pieces can make the difference. Twice we beat a team by one goal last season where the game was deadlocked. Vidic against Sunderland was on of them. Although not straight from a corner it was after they couldn't clear the ball effectively.

You only need the two players to keep the defense shaking but if the delivery is lacking then there's no way.

Basically I agree and disagree with you. Agree on the principal but disagree on who we would find effective in the box so I really could've easily kept this shorter

Name Changed

Obviously, since I was talking about corners, I was talking about threats in the air from corners.

Now, if all the other players you mentioned are so good in the air from corners, how come they never really score any from corners? Nobody ever said they weren't good in the air, and not all of our corners are shite, so how come the players you mentioned aren't a threat in the air consistently from corners, since as you say they are really a threat? Please explain....

Name Changed

I don't remember any from corners, which is what the thread is about. He is a good header of the ball alright, but bursting into the box and getting onto the end of things isn't the same as scoring from a corner, i.e. having to probably outmuscle and outjump a defender who's marking you.

Name Changed

Excellent.

Name Changed

There you go. He's 6'3 and feck all of a threat in the air from corners. How many games has he played in his career and he only has 10 goals?

I stand by my original point. Vidic is the only real consistent proper threat in the air that we have (from corners).

Allforone

Coz we is shit at em init.

Seriously though, our delivery is often gash, we hit the first man on so many occasions its become, well no, gone beyond a running joke really, its strange to because we have so many gifted players who strike a ball beautifully in our ranks, but put them on a corner and it becomes an embaressment, its actually gotten to a stage where i cringe at the prospect of us winning a corner kick.

Plus outside of Vidic we dont really have anyone in the team who attacks them with any intent.

SecondFig

Totally agree, especially the bolded sections. Remember when we had Beckham or Ronaldo and a freekick around the area was a really good goal scoring chance, now it usually means someone's about to smack it into the wall (Giggs, Rooney or Nani). We lack players who are a threat from corners/free kicks, but we also lack a player capable of delivering consistently good dead-balls. At least, on the bright side, we have some players in the academy/reserves who are good. Eikrem and Tosic in particular are excellent at set piece delivery...

RedDevilCanuck

We can't score from corners because Ronaldo is gone. He was so tall and big and could jump so high that two players needed to mark him. With him gone the opposing team targets Vidic and we have no one else put head them in. Also our delivery is absolute shit. Its at MLS level and sometimes worse.