A UFO Debate - Believe or Disbelieve?

Laphroaig

South Park s15e13: A History Channel Thanksgiving

FortBoyard

It's THEIR you fucking idiot!!!!

Wibble

KingEric7

Fuck's sake. What a horrible place to make that mistake. I was drunk, to be fair.

I know, was just saying. The point of this thread at the moment is to try and put across that the UFO topic isn't actually the complete load of bollocks that people make it out to be. There is a good case to be presented.



That Russian UFO one is really fucking weird. Does anyone know what it is? It's quite similar to the one that Hectic posted on here ages ago that was in Oxfordshire, but even better. Does at least look as if it is under intelligent control, even it may turn out that it's not the case.

Many witnesses too going by the video. One of the strangest ones I've seen.

KingEric7

I'm gonna quote this by the way, just in case. I'm gonna have a whole lot of debt to pay off soon, and could do with this whole wealth you speak of.

cinc

You should make a counteroffer to it for it to be binding.

I mean my kids should have your kids as slaves when we die.

KingEric7

That sounds good to me. Deal.

MrMarcello

Spaceballs? Oh shit, there goes the planet!

"Space ball" drops on Namibia - Yahoo! News

Mysterious 'Space Ball' Crashes in Namibia : Discovery News

philipb231190

Boring!

R.Nilsson7

I think KingEric7's continuing enthusiasm vs nimic's rational, stone hearted dismissals of everything he posts will get my E-fight of the year vote, just for the sheer longevity and persistence of it.

KanieKaned

T'was identified as a 6 propellered RC of some sort with a camera mounted to it, I think its owned by Reuters for getting shots above crowds etc.

Red_Jamie

It's some kind of flare attached to either a stunt plane or an RC plane.

Much like this..



and for comparison here's the Russia vid.

KingEric7

Hello, everyone. After having been fairly disappointed with the amount of debate and conflict in the psychology thread over in the current events forum, I thought I'd bump this thread again. More orb phenomena, primarily:



Secondly, whatever the fuck this is:



Third:



And finally:

KingEric7

I get the impression that this thread is probably on its last knees, but one final video before I bump it again in a month or so.

This one caught on live news:



What is it?

philipb231190

I'll probably regret asking this but...

What the hell is UFO VAILIXI? They've made up a name for it?

KingEric7

According to the comments, it's a cigar shaped UFO. Even I didn't know what that was!

The cigar-shaped UFO is one of the most prevalent after the orb-looking sightings. 'Cigar-shaped' obviously wasn't a cool enough categorisation.

prateik

I know what it isnt.. Its not aliens.
It could be a plane or it could be a car passing on the road.
Reflections can look very weird.. This isnt even weird.

KingEric7

Do you really 'know' that, though? We could have a long epistemologcal discussion here, just for clarification.

philipb231190

Annnnnnnnnd I'm gone!

Hectic

I feel like you are letting the cause down KingEric. I've enjoyed watching you battle others, so passionately and spirited. But now you seemed to have accepted their negative, albeit rational and logical views, and as a result denied us happy onlookers the pleasure of watching from the shadows. Whether the aliens come, or don't come, or even exist, is all a bit immaterial. What matters is you trying to make us think they do.

philipb231190

Oh and KingEric, I didn't realise that Psychology thread got moved, was wondering where it went. No, Carl Jung isn't covered on my course either.

philipb231190

Secondly, just for the heck of it, why would an alien spaceship need to observe a nuclear facility?

KingEric7

I'm just waiting it out, to be honest. I'm quietly confident that I'll be vindicated in this lifetime and, when that occurs, I'm going to be bumping the absolute shit out of this post:

That's if the ramifications of aliens being here aren't such that money is no longer required, at least. Just so I know how excited to get...how much do your life savings amount to, cinc? 15-20 grand or so? More?

philipb231190

But KingEric, is your whole basis on believing Aliens are here based on Youtube videos and such? There isn't really any other evidence is there apart from random rednecks being kidnapped and anally probed.

Lastwolf

There's no need to drop the e-bomb.

That's uncalled for, that is, epistemological might mean 'friendly plant music' in Uruguayan but round here thems fighting words.

KingEric7

Yeah, it took me a while. I assumed it had just slipped off the first page until I saw it in there.

I'm amazed! Perhaps certain elements of Jungian psychology are too speculative for many (the collective unconscious, for example). Still, would've thought his views on anxiety, individuation and ego would've been compelling enough to be a compulsary element of any psychology course. What do I know...I don't take the subject, or arrange the course.

KingEric7

Nope, personal experience. I've often reaffirmed that going from phenomena to aliens is a difficult one after having previously been called up about it (I was younger and all that, yong 'n lernin'), but I've never really thought that belief need be absolutely logical if flaws are acknowledged.

Funnily enough, on the topic of Jung, he'd probably be fairly weary of this sort of stance. I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of, "belief is a difficult one...I don't believe. I must have a reason to form a certain hypothesis. When those conditions are met, I don't need to believe...I know".

Personally, I think we are capable of believing or knowing, whilst still being rational. In regards to the second bit, there is an awful amount of anecdotal evidence to suggest that there is something to the extra-terrestrial explanation. No proof, but a lot of pointers. This has been done to the death in here, so it may be better perhaps to go over the last god knows how many pages!

philipb231190

I've read most of this thread I remember being involved in large amounts of it. For me personally, there hasn't really been anything in this thread that has even made me stop and consider that there might be aliens. The evidence is just that poor in my opinion.

However, I've never personally even saw a UFO so maybe that has something to do with it.

Badunk

Just once could we have a cameraman who can use zoom and focus, and not have Parkinson's?

hungrywing

I agree. If only so we can set the galactic record for accusations of 'Staged!'

KingEric7

I don't think much of the evidence has really been documented here. My belief is reinforced by years and years of having read opinions from credible people outside of Redcafe - for example, the opinions of those from the disclosure project.

However, had I not seen UFO activity myself, I would not take it as seriously as I do now. Prior to seeing it with my own eyes, I still had an interest, yet there was always an overriding doubt. Now, my belief is such that I am absolutely unable to believe otherwise (despite acknowledging the lack of certainty), and that is because my mind is unable to be drawn towards any other conclusion in light of similar reports and consistent stories reaffirming my own experiences, and also because I just don't know what else it could be. The nature of my experience has led me to the belief that there is intelligent phenomena there to be discussed and, if this is so, I am at a loss in some sense to rationalise it in some other way. It's gone beyond the point of illusion and perceptual error given clarification by friends and others around me, so the common sense explanation for me, from my perspective, is that crafts that I have seen with my own eyes, amongst others, reaffirmed by experiences of credible people and also hundreds of thousands, if not millions of others around the world, are those from another world.

Still, I cannot guarantee that they are not our own. I cannot guarantee also that it is not a natural process mimicking the appearance of crafts in some way, or that there is something else at work such as angel, spirits, etc. From my perspective, there is a phenomena there to be discussed, and my mind, to be quite honest, is drawn to the extra-terrestrial explanation whether that conclusion is absolutely logically warranted or not. I simply cannot help it!

Smores

It's quite natural to reach for an attractive explanation when no obvious answers are available, human history is littered with such reasoning.

I've always believed that their must be other life out there due to the sheer scope of the universe. I'd also presume there's life more intelligent than ourselves. However, even if I watched an alien stand in front of me doing the hokey-cokey I wouldn't believe it as it's far more probable that I'd be having some kind of mental breakdown or hallucinating.

It's well reported that the number of ufo/alien sightings has increased as the idea has worked it's way into popular culture. In the Victorian era they were fascinated with ghosts where as now it's moved onto aliens. The human mind is quite susceptible to suggestion.

KanieKaned

And the beat goes on

KingEric7

Sup Kaned, how are you these days?

KingEric7

Fair enough. I can understand the view. Would you say it is more likely, in my experience, that continued collective hallucinations are occurring?

Not being rude, just wondering. I'd say that collective hallucination is a pretty rare co-incidence, but naturally that'd probably be the response to group sightings (not that myself, my friends or my girlfriends have actually seen an alien being as such, but you know what I mean).

KanieKaned

All is good in the hood man, trying my utmost to not post in here for fear of my tin foil hat getting all scrunched up

Smores

Collective hallucination is nothing more than suggestion though? (unless it's an undeniable event) it's not a matter of co-incidence but cause, magicians often produce and take advantage of such effects. In every way our brain is hard-wired to interpret every kind of sensory input, visually for example our brain tricks us into seeing things that aren't there because it filters the input to make sense.

Not only that but post-event recollection is very fallible and not only can you make people not only believe they've seen something but also totally backward rationalise every detail so they believe they always thought they saw something.

Our own cognitive processes on top of outside suggestion leaves us very open to misinterpretation. Many small or large groups have claimed to see miracles/ghosts which have been debunked. As they say 'there are no facts, only interpretations'.

P.s you only have to have an argument with the other half to understand the power of backward rationalisation, they can instantly change their view along with any views they ever held and will deny all existence. I think it's quite clear they're the real aliens.

KingEric7

I think my point with collective hallucination and co-incidence is made in reference to experiences I've had with friends who have then gone amongst themselves, discussed it with one another, come back, discussed it with me, and come up with the same description as what had happened . There was one time, for example, whereby I was with a few mates and saw something that made us all feel fairly uncomfortable, such was the stunning nature of it. We didn't speak of it for a while, but when they spoke of what they had seen next time we met, they spoke of exactly the same thing I had seen (I knew full well what I'd seen prior to the discussion, and had obessed about it for some time).

I'd say that, in that example, it was an incredible co-incidence that we all hallucinated the same thing, and also a co-incidence that all these 'hallucinations' occur solely in regards to this sort of phenomena. I've never 'hallucinated' anything else in my life, with the exception of when I've been on a drug of some sort (even mushrooms don't give me that level of hallucination, though).

Whilst I understand the point and grasp your views on the suggestibility of the human race, I feel as if I probably take a much less dim view of our perceptual faculties. There are more examples whereby the collective hallucination explanation doesn't fit, and I find it easier to believe that there is some sort of phenomena there to be discussed. In all honesty, as much as one can be certain about anything, I am absolutely certain that there is some sort of phenomena (whatever it may be), and the fact that this has been clarified by thousands of witnesses (in this case) that have seen the same thing only adds to that.

KingEric7

Good, good. Are you still hallucinating and misinterpreting these days?

KanieKaned

Oh I'm still hallucinating from all the weed I've smoked in my life it's a terrible thing to see something with your own eyes you see.