A UFO Debate - Believe or Disbelieve?

Pogue Mahone

Yup. And they've got project teams frantically crunching numbers and wiggling tentacles at each other, asking "listen lads, can any of you fuckers work out a way to fly round the place without leaving those massive white trails behind us?"

phelans shorts

Wasn't that the world cup final opening vt?

Heardy

I read a book called Chariots of Gods by Erich Von Daniken when I was a kid. I think his work has been largey discredited, but I was fascinated by it all.

The pyramids were very advanced for their time, maybe they were visited by aliens.

Ancient astronaut in heirogliphics...

KingEric7

On earth seemingly if just one of the reports, testamonies and videos/images (of which there are 10s of thousands) is to be believed.

There's nothing really to be gained when it comes to attempting to speculate why they haven't made the attempt. Maybe crops circles are such messages (if any of them are real). Maybe there is actually a God, and it demands they do not interfere. I don't know.

The likelihood is that we would be simply unable to comprehend them, just in the manner that we would not have been able to comprehend our current generation thousands of years ago. It's easy to forget that our brains are constantly evolving, and that there are models that attempt to outline how they have evolved over the years. The triune brain, for instance, is made of three seperate 'brains', each with its own distinct functions and constituents (it is made up of the reptilian, mammalian and neo-cortex parts of the brain.)

We may evolve further in the future and develop a brain that allows us to, like birds in a flock or bees in a swarm, operate collectively via use of some other sense, or by means of other ones being strengthened. We may develop another part of the brain that opens up another dimension of perception and, in turn, give rise to different means of manipulating our existence. If you consider the levels of creativity and cognition that are possible on drugs such as acid and ketamine, then I don't think it's a fair assumption to suggest that we've reached the end of the road in terms of the development of our consciousness. We just assume that what we perceive is all that there is because it is all that our sense organs reveal to us.

The Flying Potato

...

Livvie

I've heard so-called experts saying it - using the argument about oxygen. I always used to wonder how they could be so sure there weren't other planets with the same atmosphere.

Spoony Youngblood

Those books should be burned. But heh, anything to discredit human advancement in the quest of a quick buck/dollar/pond/yen. The pyramids were an evolution of older mausoleums, some of the earlier ones were architectural failures and all. But that's the evolution of our knowledge of mathematics, engineering and architecture eh. Everything's trial and error.

Spoony Youngblood

Your dad is stupid. See Columbus and America. And every other advanced civilisation that's discovered new land.

Heardy

Aye, I would not give it much credence now, but when I was a curious wee nipper, it made interesting reading.

Spoony Youngblood

Most credible scientists say it's improbable that there's no life outside our solar system. As for oxygen... some creatures on our planet don't need oxygen to survive, I have no idea why any expert would use that as an example of alien life on being not able exist on other planets. Unless I've misunderstood you post, Livvie, that is....

The Flying Potato

That is completely different, the only way to explore the land back then was to travel accross it, bumping into the inhabitants along the way, if UFO's have been observing us they would be able to do it from miles away without even entering our atmosphere.

Spoony Youngblood

I think you've hit the nail on the head... and funnily enough, I've been through that phase too. But I'm all grown up now.

MrMarcello

But we often hear the search for other planets confined to those with water, as water sustains life on our planet. That doesn't mean an alien race couldn't survive in some other element.

Spoony Youngblood

That's not completely different at all. Most scientists seem to think we shouldn't make first contact...because of the very reason I citied.

Spoony Youngblood

Water usually equates to life, though.

KingEric7

Maybe they're so far beyond us that they don't actually care if we see them on account of the threat we pose being so minimal. Maybe they are extremely loving, enlightened beings, who have evolved spiritually in such a fashion as to eliminate anxiety completely from their mindset - sort of in a way as to mimic the effects of being on MDMA all the time. If love and compassion is a trait of every living conscious thing, there's no reason to suggest that this lot are exempt from that for some reason. Maybe they don't want to interfere on this basis, and see us as cute little animals that should be left alone to wander nature.)

Maybe.

MrMarcello

As we know it.

Spoony Youngblood

Who's to say the tooth fairy wasn't actually an alien? and know he/she/it's gone back to homebase to serve behind the counter. See, your whole debate's a bit 'well we don't know...but heh anything's possibe, even though it'd that it go against everything we logically believe in'.

Do you think it's pretty unlikely that aliens have visited the earth? I'd say I'm very confident that they haven't managed to make any sort of contact with our planet. What do you think?

Spoony Youngblood

Yes which is why we get excited when we think we've discovered water on Mars.

It makes us get our cocks out. And then we slowly put it back in...and leave it zipped up till the next time.

KingEric7

I'm only speculating as to questions you lot are raising. I believe it to be the case that they have visited our planet - that is all.

Videos, experiences and testamonies from high ranking members of society (again the scientists, atronauts, pilots, politicians, people in the military, etc...) have shaped this belief. Leaked documents that have appeared over the internet have also shaped this belief. The extent of the evidence is incredible. Given this, the way it is dismissed so easily is probably one the most bizarre traits that human beings possess as a collection of individuals. For a race that would see itself as scientific in its endeavours, our attitude towards UFOs completely defies empiricism. If, say, there were tens of thousands of videos, scientific explanations, eye-witness accounts etc of a weather phenomenon that was incredibly rare, but was portrayed in the media in such a manner as to admit that it existed, then people would have no problem believing this to be the case, even if they had never seen it with their own eyes.

For some reason, the UFO topic is different.

The Flying Potato

Of course it's different, you were asking why UFO's havn't said hello to us like humans when we found new land and the difference is the only way for to them to explore the land they just discoverd was to walk through it and being forced to say hello the the inhabitants, with UFO's they would be able to look at everything our planet has to offer without the need of actualy meeting us and thus are able to just observe us if they wish to.

Surely you can see the difference in that?

Frosty

von Danicken is a shilling snake-oil salesman, a convicted fraudster and a plaigarist.

MrMarcello

It's all fascinating.

Alien Invaders of the Milky Way

NOVA | Origins | Do Aliens Exist in the Milky Way? | PBS

Stephen Hawking: Why Isn't the Milky Way "Crawling With Self-Designing Mechanical or Biological Life?"

Frosty

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, to quote Carl Sagan. Can you provide any?

The Flying Potato

There would be if it wasn't coverd up.

Pogue Mahone

Seriously, you should consider cutting back on the class As

Pogue Mahone

It's a theory, I suppose.

It would, of course, contradict all this bollox about Unidentified Flying Objects tooling around within earth's atmosphere, mind you.

Unless the unbelievable technological advances needed to master faster than light speed travel stopped short of manufacturing a decent fecking telescope.

KingEric7

Well, I posted a video of something on the other page that I spotted the other day if that helps. I don't know what people make of it. I found it fucking strange, and most of the people I've shown have found it to be pretty weird.

annie4664 seems to find it weird also, which is comforting.


If you're asking me for a video of an alien inside Area 51, I'm afraid I won't be able to provide it. There are some videos on YouTube of that sort of thing, though even I believe that they are a bit of a stretch.

Frosty

I hope to God you aren't being serious.

But you would admit that strange does not equal aliens, and there could be a myriad of rational explanations for all of the weird occurrences we see every day? After all, none of us are expert in climatology or astronomy, for instance, and so could not tell for sure what is an astronomical or climatological phenomenon?

KingEric7

Any discussion about this sort of thing is all too hypothetical. It's like expecting dogs to comprehend the motives of humans. There is most likely a complete mismatch in terms of intellect.

There could be all sorts of shit that they are monitoring - seismic activity, our behaviour, the way we are damaging our planet...etc

Distance might be an issue for this sort of thing.

Frosty

I've seen that video - the trail does dissipate, indicating a water vapour trail from an aircraft.

Spoony Youngblood

No, your whole premise is silly. They've travelled zillions of light years at 125 times the speed of light, just to observe us from a distance. If human history has proved anything.....it's that we pillage for our own good, ahh but aliens are different! I'll cite Colombus and the Americas, again, as an example. So, where are these aliens? I would like to know. What I don't want is people telling me what these none existent aliens are doing... but they're observing! some are having sex with our animals and humans too, on the sly! It just makes them look silly. We've not heard anything from aliens because....they're watching us from a distance while masturbating profusely on pictures of Ian Dowie with his cock out...yeah that's why they've not made contact with humans! We may as well start discussing fairies, unicorns and Thor and all while we're at it.

Frosty

You appear to be fitting the evidence to a pre-existing conclusion, namely that aliens are here. With that in mind, anything you see and interpret as 'odd' will be approached as evidence of said aliens.

KingEric7

Strange does not necessarily equal aliens, no.

It's a good point - I often think to myself why it is that I am arguing for the existence of aliens as opposed to UFOs. Whether people on here believe me or not, I, amongst others, have seen a fair bit of this sort of stuff over the last year (we're always out around the fields of Canterbury looking for it - it's a beautiful place to walk round), and it is the experience of this that has led to the conclusion that these things are intelligent.

It isn't, however, outside the realms of possibility that this could be natural phenomena that mimics the movement of intelligent life. There is always the chance of it, though I now appreciate that, in the last page, I said that I was certain of it.

I can appreciate the contradiction, here.

Eriku

Again, to me this is based on gaps more than proper reasoning... And something being unfalsifiable doesn't necessarily make it plausible, often it exposes a tremendous weakness in the argument.

If it turns out to be true that we're being observed and that they're heeding Star Trek's prime directive notion (don't interfere with developing civilisations) then I'd be disappointed in their lack of faith in us ;P

There are soundly established protocols for science and reason, chaps... Don't go 'round masquerading as being well-versed in it if you're going to nevermind some of the more important principles to make sure the hypotheses aren't made into theories prematurely.

Pogue Mahone

Distance might be an issue?

They've travelled hundreds of millions of light years and they don't have the technology to either adequately survey us from outside the atmosphere or somehow mask the massive white trails their craft leave behind?

I mean, come on...

Spoony Youngblood

They maybe allergic to water....

KingEric7

Surely you can appreciate the difference between aliens travelling and aliens measuring, and how different limitations may apply to the two seperate processes?

The Flying Potato

Hey, it's just a theory, no need to get your knickers in a twist over it.
I believe there are some cases which have been coverd up, watch some of the UFO Files episodes on youtube, I saw a few recently which went over (enter country or towns name here)'s Roswell's. You will be quite surprised at some of the stuff that has happened and the biggest thing about it - nearly all of them come from military personel, pilots, government official etc etc, you know, the guys who don't make shit up.

Frosty

Do they come from Oz?