Arsenals chances of a top 4 finish this season

Ole's_toe_poke · 18th May 2012, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

True, you got a good team there, and i do hope Chelsea don't win CL; else that one point gap would still equate to 45 points.

1=45

I like this guy. Can we keep him? He's like a lovechild of Dumbstar and Alastair.

peterstorey · 18th May 2012, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smores

I don't think they're that far from a title challenge to be honest. Sagna and Wilshere back for a full season and another defender and that'll be a massive improvement.

All depends on how much they invest. I expect them to be 3rd again but probably a little closer to the top two.

We're not far behind City first XI wise (we beat them at our place and were worth a point at Eastlands). We need to keep RvP and add cover for Song and expect step ups from Ox and Ramsey to be competitive.

Trionz · 18th May 2012, 15:56

oh i forgot, i am posting in a forum where people cry about a lil bit of exaggeration.

africanspur · 18th May 2012, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

True, you got a good team there, and i do hope Chelsea don't win CL; else that one point gap would still equate to 45 points.

Nope, don't quite think squeaking past us by one point on the final day after one of the worst goalkeeping performance this season is the same as winning the title unbeaten and finishing the season on twice the number of points as us.

As for the poor run early on, we didn't exactly start off the season in the best fashion either. The Tottenham riots, Redknapp's heart operation and court case and the speculation following Capello's resignation weren't exactly aids in the season. You have to get on with things though. Unfortunately we finished 4thand therefore, must now rely on Bayern.

What is clear regardless of all this is that
a) Man utd had the better season
b) the gap has been closing, quite clearly for the past 8 years

Sparky_Hughes · 18th May 2012, 16:02

Im faling to see the reason for optimism, the only difference between this season and every other is you got your annual bottle job out of the way at the start rather than wait till feb/March........same old same old.

Pogue Mahone · 18th May 2012, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

just the same way you are always keen to point at Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea's form when discussing Arsenal, while completely ignoring Arsenal early season drop in form to allow them team that much distance in first place.

What the hell are you going on about now?

I only mentioned the form of Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea in the context of Arsenal's form at the same point in the season. You know? Comparing like with like?

As opposed to say, trying to put aside the run of shite form that derailed Arsenal's season. A run of shite form for which you have nobody to blame but yourselves.

Kraftwerker · 18th May 2012, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

We're not far behind City first XI wise (we beat them at our place and were worth a point at Eastlands). We need to keep RvP and add cover for Song and expect step ups from Ox and Ramsey to be competitive.

H2H isn't a great reflection. The league doesn't lie.

Last season you said similar, saying you needed Fabregas and Nasri to stay, otherwise it cemented yourselves as a club not competing at the top table. You were convinced one if not both would.

And here we are again, except the situation is more critical.

It's shite btw. A travesty for football if Arsenal lose Van Persie to City.

Trionz · 18th May 2012, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

Nope, don't quite think squeaking past us by one point on the final day after one of the worst goalkeeping performance this season is the same as winning the title unbeaten and finishing the season on twice the number of points as us.

As for the poor run early on, we didn't exactly start off the season in the best fashion either. The Tottenham riots, Redknapp's heart operation and court case and the speculation following Capello's resignation weren't exactly aids in the season. You have to get on with things though. Unfortunately we finished 4thand therefore, must now rely on Bayern.

What is clear regardless of all this is that
a) Man utd had the better season
b) the gap has been closing, quite clearly for the past 8 years

no shit.

And Rednapp should have been in jail but then again he wouldn't have been there to initiate your relegation form.

sammsky1 · 18th May 2012, 16:09

A very easy question:

With Van Persie: Highly likely.

Without Van Persie - Very difficult.

Sparky_Hughes · 18th May 2012, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

What the hell are you going on about now?

I only mentioned the form of Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea in the context of Arsenal's form at the same point in the season. You know? Comparing like with like?

As opposed to say, trying to put aside the run of shite form that derailed Arsenal's season. A run of shite form for which you have nobody to blame but yourselves.

Same scenario as most seasons......just at the other end for a change.

Bryan_Munich · 18th May 2012, 16:15

I see Vieira has started the public tapping up of van Persie.

rcoobc · 18th May 2012, 16:17

I've never written off Arsenal, but god they made hard work of it this year. Next year though?

This year they could barely finish above Newcastle, with arguably the leagues best player. In fact I don't even think that is arguable.
Next year if Tottenham keep Modric and maybe Ade they will have a better team than Arsenal, even if they keep Robin.
Next year Chelsea will have a better team than them.
Man City and Utd will still have better teams than them.

To put it simply, they needed the complete and utter collapse of two top-four teams to finish 3rd. Just.

They won't have that luxury next year. Who is going to collapse, Spurs? United? City? Chelsea?

Kraftwerker · 18th May 2012, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Munich

I see Vieira has started the public tapping up of van Persie.

Vieira should be ashamed of himself.

What is it that he actually does for City apart from taking a presumably large wage? An ambassador?

It was pretty cringeworthy when I saw Kompany refer to him as a City legend.

Reminds me of Kenyon at Chelsea in Moscow, when he was their club ambassador to lead them up to the podium, whilst we were led by Sir Bobby Charlton.

Kraftwerker · 18th May 2012, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

I've never written off Arsenal, but god they made hard work of it this year. Next year though?

This year they could barely finish above Newcastle, with arguably the leagues best player. In fact I don't even think that is arguable.
Next year if Tottenham keep Modric and maybe Ade they will have a better team than Arsenal, even if they keep Robin.
Next year Chelsea will have a better team than them.
Man City and Utd will still have better teams than them.

To put it simply, they needed the complete and utter collapse of two top-four teams to finish 3rd. Just.

They won't have that luxury next year. Who is going to collapse, Spurs? United? City? Chelsea?

Chelsea need just as much of a rebuild job, probably more actually.

Spurs are Spurs.

Broyphs · 18th May 2012, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

oh i forgot, i am posting in a forum where people cry about a lil bit of exaggeration.

That's not how you do it. Basically what you have to do is say something outrageous, then stick to it for quite a while. Then, once you're bored of that dismiss that outrageous statement as being insignificant and move onto another point. All with tongue firmly in-cheek. The equivalent of a schoolboy chucking water bombs while he's struggling to run he's laughing so hard.

PM pete if you need a bit more guidance.

Bryan_Munich · 18th May 2012, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

Vieira should be ashamed of himself.

What is it that he actually does for City apart from taking a presumably large wage? An ambassador?

It was pretty cringeworthy when I saw Kompany refer to him as a City legend.

Reminds me of Kenyon at Chelsea in Moscow, when he was their club ambassador to lead them up to the podium, whilst we were led by Sir Bobby Charlton.

Tap up Arsenal players by the look of it.

I believe his correct title is Football Development Executive, whatever that is.

rcoobc · 18th May 2012, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

Chelsea need just as much of a rebuild job, probably more actually.

Spurs are Spurs.

Yes, but it's a bit of a myth. They've said the same thing about us with Giggs and Scholes, and we just kept them until the collapsed. It worked fine, we just kept adding to them team.

Give them a decent manager and they will flourish unfortunately. Hopefully the Europa League will weigh them down.

Trionz · 18th May 2012, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brophs

That's not how you do it. Basically what you have to do is say something outrageous, then stick to it for quite a while. Then, once you're bored of that dismiss that outrageous statement as being insignificant and move onto another point. All with tongue firmly in-cheek. The equivalent of a schoolboy chucking water bombs while he's struggling to run he's laughing so hard.

PM pete if you need a bit more guidance.

It was directed to 1=45 post above that.
Not the whole discussion.

Kraftwerker · 18th May 2012, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

Yes, but it's a bit of a myth. They've said the same thing about us with Giggs and Scholes, and we just kept them until the collapsed. It worked fine, we just kept adding to them team.

Give them a decent manager and they will flourish unfortunately. Hopefully the Europa League will weigh them down.

Exactly why they're not us.

When did United finish 6th?

Chelsea's rebuild is huge.

Trionz · 18th May 2012, 16:36

Are Arsenal a better team than Spurs currently, rcoobc?

SmashedHombre · 18th May 2012, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

We still finished ahead of Spurs despite a poor start compounded by having to qualify for the CL. You finished behind City.

So did you

Trionz · 18th May 2012, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

I've never written off Arsenal, but god they made hard work of it this year. Next year though?

This year they could barely finish above Newcastle, with arguably the leagues best player. In fact I don't even think that is arguable.
Next year if Tottenham keep Modric and maybe Ade they will have a better team than Arsenal, even if they keep Robin.
Next year Chelsea will have a better team than them.
Man City and Utd will still have better teams than them.

To put it simply, they needed the complete and utter collapse of two top-four teams to finish 3rd. Just.

They won't have that luxury next year. Who is going to collapse, Spurs? United? City? Chelsea?

And Arsenal will remain exactly the same and will have the same kind of season in 2012-13?

John_Jensen · 18th May 2012, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlawlessThaw

I never used that logic. Peterstorey did when he said Arsenal had a better season because they overhauled a target which is what Wigan did.

My logic is that United had a better season than Arsenal because they finished 19 points ahead. That's all.

Ah, logical logic. clever

peterstorey · 18th May 2012, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

H2H isn't a great reflection. The league doesn't lie.

Last season you said similar, saying you needed Fabregas and Nasri to stay, otherwise it cemented yourselves as a club not competing at the top table. You were convinced one if not both would.

And here we are again, except the situation is more critical.

Yeah we've lost a steady stream of players over the last few years which mean that we've stood trod water instead of progressing. Losing Fabregas was the biggest blow but losing RvP wouldn't help. If we keep RvP, a first XI of

Sczesny
Sagna Koscielny Vermaelen Gibbs
Ramsey Song Wilshere
Walcott RvP Podolski

with (Arteta, Santos, Gervinho, Ox etc rotating) doesn't look too bad. Need cover for Song (M'Vila?) and another striking option (Remy?) IMO.

Broyphs · 18th May 2012, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

Yeah we've lost a steady stream of players over the last few years which mean that we've stood trod water instead of progressing. Losing Fabregas was the biggest blow but losing RvP wouldn't help. If we keep RvP, a first XI of

Sczesny
Sagna Koscielny Vermaelen Gibbs
Ramsey Song Wilshere
Walcott RvP Podolski

with (Arteta, Santos, Gervinho, Ox etc rotating) doesn't look too bad. Need cover for Song (M'Vila?) and another striking option (Remy?) IMO.

Remy apparently met 'Arry in Paris yesterday.

Julien Laurens ‏@LaurensJulien
Harry Redknapp met Loïc Rémy yesterday in Paris at Orly airport.Looking good for Spurs.Marseille is asking around15M£ for the transfer #thfc

adexkola · 18th May 2012, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

To be fair, everyone got wrong that day, bar adexkola.

I think I'll frame this quote...

On a serious note, Wenger has done well this season, given the circumstances.

He should have identified replacements for Fabregas and Nasri long before they left; not doing so cost Arsenal a few points at least, from their horrid run at the beginning of the season. Mertesacker and Santos have been underwhelming at best. Their defense has the propensity of letting in easy goals and making it harder for the attack to bail them out. He needs to work on that in the summer. Kosenlcy (I can't spell it) and Vermaleen are a very good pairing when they're fit, but backups need to be brought in.

The hardest gap to bridge is the gap between 3rd, and contenders for 1st. In the last few years, Chelsea and City have only been able to do so with unlimited spending, hampering the likes of Arsenal and Spurs in the process. That Wenger has kept them in contention, both in the league, and in Europe, is excellent. He needs to get the fans a trophy soon: either the League Cup, or the FA Cup. It can only help.

peterstorey · 18th May 2012, 16:55

I thought transfers were nothing to do wiv 'Arry (but all down to that nice Mr Levy) or is that only when they're shit ones like buying back Robbie Keane?

rcoobc · 18th May 2012, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

Are Arsenal a better team than Spurs currently, rcoobc?

No, not really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraftwerker

Exactly why they're not us.

When did United finish 6th?

Chelsea's rebuild is huge.

Chelsea are a top 4 team handicapped by an internal war. Which they won't have next year imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

And Arsenal will remain exactly the same and will have the same kind of season in 2012-13?

If Arsenal have the exact same season as this year, do you think they will get in the top 4? Because I don't.

I think Man City and Utd were reasonably mediocre and it was the weakness of the teams below them which made them look better than they are. Look at Newcastle, does anyone genuinely think they would nearly finish 4th in years gone by?

United were worse than last year and finished 19 points clear of Arsenal. Tottenham spent half the season losing and finished a point behind Arsenal. Newcastle were Newcastle, a very very decent team but not that amazing, yet finished just 5 points behind.

Chelsea could be European champions.

Next year will be harder, I hope Arsenal finish in the top 4 but I have a feeling they won't.

Moyespopper · 16th August 2012, 18:39

Bump..... Spurs losing Adebayor and Modric will probably help.

Guy Incognito · 16th August 2012, 18:51

Plus ça change with Arsenal. Nothing will change, I'm sure they will get out of the cups if they have to, in order to guarantee a top four finish.

Cheesy · 16th August 2012, 18:58

They'll come 4th in my opinion. They still have a decent squad, even without Van Persie and some players will step up. Liverpool, Spurs and Newcastle don't look capable of finishing ahead of them at the moment to be honest. Chelsea probably will though.

TheBest · 16th August 2012, 19:05

They will finish ahead of chelsea.

kouroux · 16th August 2012, 19:07

Their direct competition for the 4th spot haven't even improved so it's still theirs to lose

Homeomorphic · 16th August 2012, 19:10

They finish in the top 4 when they want.
They finish in the top 4 when they want.

Meh, hard to chant. But it's true.

Hallucinogen · 16th August 2012, 19:13

I do think they will finish ahead of us unless Wenger makes the same organisational mistakes in defense he made last year for almost half a season.

Don't Kill Bill · 16th August 2012, 20:11

I think they will still finish top four but the 10 year plan may have to be extended to 15 years.

Scrumpet · 16th August 2012, 20:14

They could do with keeping hold of Song and getting Wilshere fit but they'll no doubt finish in the top 4 like always. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

Randall Flagg · 16th August 2012, 20:16

Its all down to Spurs and Liverpool. If either one of them manage to improve enough they can take 4th spot

Chelsea will comfortably finish ahead of them

alastair · 16th August 2012, 20:18

Chelsea under Di Matteo will be doing well to finish top 4.

FlawlessThaw · 16th August 2012, 20:23

I have almost no idea how Chelsea will do. A lot depends on how quickly their new signings settle in. They do have a very exciting young team.

18th May 2012, 16:17	#772 (permalink)
rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The treble gone Posts: 23,059	I've never written off Arsenal, but god they made hard work of it this year. Next year though? This year they could barely finish above Newcastle, with arguably the leagues best player. In fact I don't even think that is arguable. Next year if Tottenham keep Modric and maybe Ade they will have a better team than Arsenal, even if they keep Robin. Next year Chelsea will have a better team than them. Man City and Utd will still have better teams than them. To put it simply, they needed the complete and utter collapse of two top-four teams to finish 3rd. Just. They won't have that luxury next year. Who is going to collapse, Spurs? United? City? Chelsea?

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18th May 2012, 15:56	#763 (permalink)
Trionz Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Jack of All Trades Posts: 8,588	oh i forgot, i am posting in a forum where people cry about a lil bit of exaggeration.

18th May 2012, 16:02	#765 (permalink)
Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: knee deep in the despair of others and loving it Posts: 6,506	Im faling to see the reason for optimism, the only difference between this season and every other is you got your annual bottle job out of the way at the start rather than wait till feb/March........same old same old.

18th May 2012, 16:09	#769 (permalink)
sammsky1 First Team Regular Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Behind my  Posts: 12,668	A very easy question: With Van Persie: Highly likely. Without Van Persie - Very difficult.

18th May 2012, 16:15	#771 (permalink)
Bryan_Munich Aka RichieRich12 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In Arsène We Rust Posts: 11,639	I see Vieira has started the public tapping up of van Persie.

18th May 2012, 16:36	#780 (permalink)
Trionz Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Jack of All Trades Posts: 8,588	Are Arsenal a better team than Spurs currently, rcoobc?

18th May 2012, 16:55	#787 (permalink)
peterstorey Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: I've dealt with RiP being injured for 8 seasons - it's your problem now. Posts: 29,931	I thought transfers were nothing to do wiv 'Arry (but all down to that nice Mr Levy) or is that only when they're shit ones like buying back Robbie Keane?

16th August 2012, 18:39	#789 (permalink)
Moyespopper Lowering the tone since 2006 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 54,122	Bump..... Spurs losing Adebayor and Modric will probably help.

16th August 2012, 18:51	#790 (permalink)
Guy Incognito First Team Sub Join Date: May 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 7,414	Plus ça change with Arsenal. Nothing will change, I'm sure they will get out of the cups if they have to, in order to guarantee a top four finish.

16th August 2012, 18:58	#791 (permalink)
Cheesy Smells Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 9,103	They'll come 4th in my opinion. They still have a decent squad, even without Van Persie and some players will step up. Liverpool, Spurs and Newcastle don't look capable of finishing ahead of them at the moment to be honest. Chelsea probably will though.

16th August 2012, 19:05	#792 (permalink)
TheBest SPNTBP Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redcafe Chess>>>> Soccer manager Posts: 11,914	They will finish ahead of chelsea.

16th August 2012, 19:07	#793 (permalink)
kouroux No Lifer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Djibouti (La terre des braves) Posts: 32,559	Their direct competition for the 4th spot haven't even improved so it's still theirs to lose

16th August 2012, 19:10	#794 (permalink)
Homeomorphic Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: La Liga Posts: 1,787	They finish in the top 4 when they want. They finish in the top 4 when they want. Meh, hard to chant. But it's true.

16th August 2012, 19:13	#795 (permalink)
Hallucinogen Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Zola's boots Posts: 1,903	I do think they will finish ahead of us unless Wenger makes the same organisational mistakes in defense he made last year for almost half a season.

16th August 2012, 20:11	#796 (permalink)
Don't Kill Bill Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,913	I think they will still finish top four but the 10 year plan may have to be extended to 15 years.

16th August 2012, 20:14	#797 (permalink)
Scrumpet There are no words Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Not my circus, not my monkeys. Posts: 15,220	They could do with keeping hold of Song and getting Wilshere fit but they'll no doubt finish in the top 4 like always. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

16th August 2012, 20:16	#798 (permalink)
Randall Flagg shitline Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 24,910	Its all down to Spurs and Liverpool. If either one of them manage to improve enough they can take 4th spot Chelsea will comfortably finish ahead of them

16th August 2012, 20:18	#799 (permalink)
alastair Dumb Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Constantly under-rated. Posts: 10,425	Chelsea under Di Matteo will be doing well to finish top 4.

16th August 2012, 20:23	#800 (permalink)
FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 21,129	I have almost no idea how Chelsea will do. A lot depends on how quickly their new signings settle in. They do have a very exciting young team.