Barry saga leaving a sour taste

redman5 · 6th July 2008, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

I know my United history better than most.

Player transfer fees are far higher these days compared to 20-30-40 years ago, even when taking inflation into account.

Great.....So you'll know that United spent more than twice as much as Liverpool during the 70's & 80's, & just had 3 FA Cups to show for it.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 6th July 2008, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5

Great.....So you'll know that United spent more than twice as much as Liverpool during the 70's & 80's, & just had 3 FA Cups to show for it.

Did they?

redman5 · 6th July 2008, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Did they?

Sure did.

Your club spent over £15 million, in comparison to approx £7 million by Liverpool. Of course, we generally had a lot of players who come through the ranks at Anfield. We also had an excellent scouting facility, picking up players like Clemence, Neal, Case & Keegan for next to nothing. These days, any player thats half-decent as a 5 year old tends to get snapped up. So if you don't get em young, then you have to pay crazy money once they've proved themselves, & thats where the financial imbalance comes in nowdays.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 6th July 2008, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5

Sure did.

Your club spent over £15 million, in comparison to approx £7 million by Liverpool. Of course, we generally had a lot of players who come through the ranks at Anfield. We also had an excellent scouting facility, picking up players like Clemence, Neal, Case & Keegan for next to nothing. These days, any player thats half-decent as a 5 year old tends to get snapped up. So if you don't get em young, then you have to pay crazy money once they've proved themselves, & thats where the financial imbalance comes in nowdays.

Try again.

£25m spent by United
£18m spent by Liverpool

Liverpool signings 1970's and 80's:

1989.08.00 Glenn Hysen Fiorentina 600.000
1988.10.00 David Burrows West Bromwich 500.000
1988.08.18 Ian Rush Juventus 2.8m
1988.08.00 Nick Tanner Bristol Rovers 20.000
1987.10.00 Ray Houghton Oxford United 825.000
1987.08.21 Micke Marsh Kirkby Town Free
1987.07.00 Steve Harkness Carlisle 75.000
1987.07.00 Peter Beardsley Newcastle 1.9m*
1987.06.00 John Barnes Watford 900.000
1987.02.00 Nigel Spackman Chelsea 400.000
1987.01.00 John Aldridge Oxford United 750.000
1986.10.00 Alan Irvine Falkirk 75.000
1986.08.00 Steve Staunton Dundalk ?
1986.07.00 Barry Venison Sunderland 250.000
1985.10.00 Mike Hooper Wrexham 40.000
1985.09.00 Steve McMahon AstonVilla 350.000
1985.01.00 Wayne Harrison Oldham 250.000
1984.11.00 Kevin McDonald Leicester 400.000
1984.08.00 Jan Molby Ajax 200.000
1984.05.00 Paul Walsh Luton Town 700.000
1984.03.00 John Wark Ipswich Town 450.000
1983.08.00 Michael Robinson Brighton 200.000
1983.07.00 Gary Gillispie Coventry 325.000
1983.05.00 Jim Beglin Shamrock Rovers 20.000
1982.08.00 David Hodgson Middlesboro 450.000
1981.10.00 Steve Nicol Ayr United 300.000
1981.03.00 Bruce Grobbelaar Vancouver Whitecaps 250.000
1981.08.00 Mark Lawrenson Brighton 900.000
1981.04.00 Craig Johnston Middlesboro 575.000
1980.05.00 Richard Money Fulham 50.000
1980.04.00 Ian Rush Chester 300.000
1979.10.00 Ronnie Whelan Home Farm 35.000
1979.05.00 Avi Cohen Maccabbi Tel Aviv 200.000
1979.00.00 Frank McGarvey St Mirren 250.000
1978.07.00 Kevin Sheedy Hereford United 80.000
1978.08.00 Alan Kennedy Newcastle 330.000
1978.01.00 Gream Souness Middlesboro 352.000*
1977.10.00 Steve Ogrizovic Chesterfield 70.000
1977.05.00 Alan Hansen Patrick Thistle 100.000
1977.08.00 Kenny Dalglish Celtic 440.000*
1976.08.00 David Johnson Ipswich Town 200.000
1975.07.00 Joey Jones Wrexham 110.000
1974.11.00 Terry McDermott Newcastle 170.000
1974.10.00 Phil Neal Northampton Town 65.000
1974.07.12 Ray Kennedy Arsenal 180.000
1973.06.00 Alan Waddle Halifax Town 40.000
1973.05.00 Jimmy Case South Liverpool 500
1972.07.00 Trevor Storton Tranmere Rovers 25.000
1972.07.00 Peter Cormack Forest 110.000
1971.09.00 Frank Lane Tranmere Rovers 15.000
1971.05.01 Kevin Keggan S****horpe United 35.000
1970.10.00 John Toshack Cardiff City 110.000
1970.09.00 Stephen Arnold Crewe 10.000
1970.04.00 John Whitham Sheffield Wednesday 57.000

United singnings 1970's and 80's:

1970
Jun Brian Greenhoff (D) Yorkshire Schoolboys
Jun Clive Griffiths (D) Wales Schoolboys
1971
Jan Arnie Sidebottom (D) Amateur
Nov Jimmy Nicholl (D) Amateur
1972
Mar Martin Buchan (D) Aberdeen (£125,000)
Mar Ian Storey-Moore (F) Nottingham Forest (£200,000)
Apr Jimmy Kelly (M) Amateur
Jul Arthur Albiston (FB) Edinburgh
Jul Paul Bielby (F) Associate Schoolboy
Sep Wyn Davies (F) Manchester City (£25,000)
Sep David McCreery (M) N Ireland Schoolboys
Sep Ted MacDougall (F) Bournemouth (£200,000)
Oct Trevor Anderson (F) Portadown (£20,000)
Dec George Graham (M) Arsenal (£120,000)
Dec Alex Forsyth (FB) Partick Thistle (£100,000)
1973
Jan Jim Holton (D) Shrewsbury Town (£80,000)
Jan Lou Macari (F) Glasgow Celtic (£200,000)
Jan Mick Martin (M) Bohemians (£25,000)
Apr Gerry Daly (M) Bohemians (£20,000)
May George Buchan (F) Aberdeen
Oct Peter Coyne (F) Manchester Schoolboys
Oct Paddy Roche (G) Shelbourne (£15,000)
Dec Stewart Houston (FB) Brentford (£55,000)
1974
Mar Jim McCalliog (M) Wolverhampton Wanderers (£
Apr Tony Grimshaw (D) Local Football
May Stuart Pearson (F) Hull City (£200,000)
Jul Steve Paterson (D) Nairn County
Nov Ron Davies (F) Portsmouth (£25,000)
1975
Jan Tommy Baldwin (F) Millwall (loan)
Feb Steve Coppell (F) Tranmere Rovers (£60,000)
Mar Jonathan Clark (M) Wales Schoolboys
May Mike Duxbury (FB) Lancashire Schoolboys
Jul Tommy Jackson (M) Nottingham Forest
Oct Andy Ritchie (F) Stockport Schoolboys
Nov Gordon Hill (F) Millwall (£80,000)
1976
May Martyn Rogers (D) South Notts Schoolboys
May Colin Waldron (D) Burnley
Jul Alan Foggon (F) Hartford Bi-Centennials (£40,000)
Oct Chris McGrath (M) Tottenham Hotspur (£30,000)
Nov Jimmy Greenhoff (F) Stoke City (£120,000)
1977
Mar Ashley Grimes (D) Bohemians (£20,000)
1978
Jan Gary Bailey (G) Witts University (SA)
Jan Joe Jordan (F) Leeds United (£350,000)
Feb Gordon McQueen (D) Leeds United (£495,000)
Feb Kevin Moran (D) Pegasus
Jul Alan Davies (F) Mancunian Juniors
Jul Steve Pears (G) Ushaw Moor Schoolboys
Aug Tom Connell (FB) Coleraine
Aug Tom Sloan (M) Ballymena United (£20,000)
Sep Norman Whiteside (F) West Belfast Schools
Nov Mickey Thomas (M) Wrexham (£300,000)
1979
Jun Scott McGarvey (F) Celtic Boys Club
Aug Ray Wilkins (M) Chelsea (£825,000)
1980
Jan Nikola Jovanovic (D) Red Star Belgrade (£300,000)
Apr Billy Garton (D) Salford Schoolboys
May Mark Dempsey (M) Junior Football
Jun Mark Hughes (F) Wrexham Schoolboys
Jul Graeme Hogg (D) Aberdeen & District Schools
Aug Tony Whelan (D) Bohemians (£30,000)
Oct Garry Birtles (F) Nottingham Forest (£1.25 Million)
1981
Jun Clayton Blackmore (M) Afan Nedd Schoolboys
Jun Nicky Wood (F) Oldham Schoolboys
Aug John Gidman (FB) Everton (swap deal)
Aug Frank Stapleton (F) Arsenal (£900,000)
Sep Remi Moses (M) West Bromwich Albion (£600,000)
Oct Bryan Robson (M) West Bromwich Albion (£1.5 Million)
1982
Apr Paul McGrath (D) St Patricks Athletic (£30,000)
Aug Arnold Muhren (M) Ipswich Town
Sep Peter Beardsley (F) Vancouver Whitecaps (£250,000)
1983
Feb Jeff Wealands (G) Birmingham City (Loan)
Mar Laurie Cunningham (F) Real Madrid (loan)
Jun Gary Walsh (G) Wigan Schoolboys
Aug Arthur Graham (F) Leeds United (£45,000)
Aug Jeff Wealands (G) Birmingham City
Nov Garth Crooks (F) Tottenham Hotspur(loan)
1984
Feb Mark Robins (F) Boundary Park Juniors
Jun Alan Brazil (F) Tottenham Hotspur (£625,000)
Jun Tony Gill (D) W Yorkshire Schoolboys
Jul Jesper Olsen (F) Ajax Amsterdam (£700,000)
Aug Gordon Strachan (M) Aberdeen (£600,000)
1985
Jun Russell Beardsmore (M) Wigan Schoolboys
Jun Lee Martin (D) Gtr Manchester Boys
Jun David Wilson (M) W Yorkshire Schoolboys
Jul Peter Barnes (F) Leeds United (£50,000)
Aug Chris Turner (G) Sunderland (£275,000)
Nov Colin Gibson (D) Aston Villa (£275,000)
Dec Mark Higgins (D) Everton (£60,000)
1986
Jan Terry Gibson (F) Coventry City (swap deal)
Feb John Sivebaek (FB) Vejle Boldklub (£285,000)
Mar Derek Brazil (D) Rivermount Boys Club
Mar Peter Davenport (F) Nottingham Forest (£570,000)
Jul Deiniol Graham (F) Wales Schoolboys
Oct Liam O'Brien (M) Shamrock Rovers (£50,000)
Oct Paul Wratten (M) Middlesbrough Schoolboys
1987
Jul Viv Anderson (FB) Arsenal (£250,000)
Jul Brian McClair (F) Glasgow Celtic (£850,000)
Dec Steve Bruce (D) Norwich City (£825,000)
1988
Jun Jim Leighton (G) Aberdeen (£450,000)
Jun Lee Sharpe (F) Torquay United (£185,000)
Jun Mark Hughes (F) Barcelona (£1.8 Million)
Jul Darren Ferguson (M) Appentice
Oct Mal Donaghy (D) Luton Town (£650,000)
Nov Ralph Milne (F) Bristol City (£175,000)
Dec Guiliano Maiorana (F) Histon FC (£30,000)
1989
Jun Mark Bosnich (G) Croatia Sydney
Jun Colin McKee (F) Scottish Schoolboys
Jun Ian Wilkinson (G) Trainee
Jul Mike Phelan (M) Norwich City (£750,000)
Jul Neil Webb (M) Nottingham Forest (£1.5 Million)
Aug Gary Pallister (D) Middlesbrough (£2.3 Million)
Sep Ben Thornley (F) England Schoolboys
Sep Paul Ince (M) West Ham United (£2.4 Million)
Sep Danny Wallace (F) Southampton (£1.3 Million)
Dec Les Sealey (G) Luton Town (Loan)

CnutOfAllCnuts · 6th July 2008, 19:19

Liverpool signed 54 players in 20 years between 1970 and 1990.

Benitez has signed 40 players in 4 years as Liverpool manager....

samabachan · 6th July 2008, 19:22

Once again Boring owns a dipper with stats.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 6th July 2008, 19:52

Funny thing is, in the 70's and 80's United outspent Liverpool, when Liverpool were dominant.

In the 90's, Liverpool outspent United - and United were dominating.

redman5 · 6th July 2008, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Funny thing is, in the 70's and 80's United outspent Liverpool, when Liverpool were dominant.

In the 90's, Liverpool outspent United - and United were dominating.

True, but we never suffered the indignity of relegation though

BTW. Thanks for digging out all that transfer info. I knew your lot had spent around £7 to £8 million more over the 20 years.

CnutOfAllCnuts · 6th July 2008, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5

I knew your lot had spent around £7 to £8 million more over the 20 years.

You claimed we had spent twice of what you spent.

I never suffered the indignity of relegation either.

Majestic16 · 7th July 2008, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5

Paying over the odds for a player does tend to speed things up pretty sharpish.

I thought the starting price was fair. The add-ons were the United tax, the cost of success.

I seriously doubt Villa will negotiate such a thing with your lot.

Majestic16 · 7th July 2008, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Funny thing is, in the 70's and 80's United outspent Liverpool, when Liverpool were dominant.

In the 90's, Liverpool outspent United - and United were dominating.

That does make sense actually. You don't need to spend much when you already got a title winning team.

Majestic16 · 7th July 2008, 01:58

Still waiting for a reply about the transfer request comment....

Do clubs pay the remainder of a player's contract when he is sold? Is that payment gone when he hands in a transfer request??

Paddy · 7th July 2008, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Liverpool has been cack for the past two seasons.

Freak · 7th July 2008, 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddyf091

Alex · 7th July 2008, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddyf091

reddevilcanada · 7th July 2008, 05:09

Alex · 7th July 2008, 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnutOfAllCnuts

Liverpool signed 54 players in 20 years between 1970 and 1990.

Benitez has signed 40 players in 4 years as Liverpool manager....

Pathetic

Paddy · 7th July 2008, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddevilcanada

Another classic gif from Top

jasonrh · 7th July 2008, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LWAR

The difference being Benitez has been willing to negotiate on both Crouch and Alonso. He started at £15m for Crouch but has reportedly accepted an offer closer to £10m. O'Neill has been a stubborn arse and wont budge from £18m which is clearly a vast over-estimation for a player of Barry's skill (or lack of).

If I were Rafa I'd walk away from the deal, keep Alonso and leave Villa with an unhappy captain sitting on the bench.

Another pretty big difference is that while you pretty much have been advertising that Crouch was out of favour and could go - it was your manager who made the 'valuation' - Villa have done no such thing and have in fact said they absolutely want to keep him from the moment there was interest.

Not only have Villa (unlike you with Crouch) not been flogging Barry around to every club from Land's End to John O Groats, but your Waiter specifically tried to destabilise him and his team at the end of the year just to make absolutely sure they didn't slip into Europe so he'd be cheaper and more likely to leave.

Can you see the fundamental differences there, or are you definitely not guilty and just very cheeky?

Only your lot could manage to turn MON into the villain of the piece and Manuel into some sort of beacon of sanity and reasonable adult behaviour.

thoward · 7th July 2008, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chorley1974

£15m Crouch but not willing to beat that for Barry.

And Crouch only has a year left on his contract.

jasonrh · 7th July 2008, 12:13

Only the scousers would try to prove that they're the poor boys on the block by forcing people to go all the way back to when Harold McMillian was PM then cutting it all off 20 years ago in order to not talk about the realities of the last TWO DECADES.

If they' spent 7m less than us in that two decades, they've spent what 12 or 13 more than us net since? So they're highest net spenders since 1970 then?

Are we allowed to cite a 40 year trend without being attacked for making up random irrelevant pro-United artbitary cutoff dates?

As usual, the LFC story can be summarised thus:

1. (Lie) They say we are only dominant because of Sky Money and because they have no money and are so poor.

1. (Truth) They spend net more than us and have for decades.

2. (Lie) They say we are only dominant because our manager isn't stuck with players from the previous regime.

2. (Truth) They buy about a squad of players a year. Presumably Carragher and Gerrard are the Houllier dead-weights that are keeping the team back now.

jasonrh · 7th July 2008, 12:23

That 40 number really is a miracle when you think about it.

How many players have Chelsea signed since Abramovich?

Benitez has purchased 40+ first team players - Erik Nevland in 1998 was 40 First Team signings ago for us.

Benitez in his 40 signings:
1 European Cup
1 FA Cup

Ferguson in his last 40 signings:
2 European Cups
6 League Titles
2 FA Cups
1 Intercontinental Cup
1 League Cup
2 Charity Shields (hey, Murph counts it alongside the 'Finished 2nd in 2002' Cup)

Congrats Rafa, you've done really well for yourself.

We all know that stability and quality are the keys to long-term success. Thank you for continuing to fail to provide that stability and quality at Liverpool.

jasonrh · 7th July 2008, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5

Sure did.

So by "more than twice", you actually mean "about a third more".

Maths.

UnitedRoadRed · 7th July 2008, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majestic16

Whats that all about??

Basically whena player signs a contract there is often a clause whereby they are granted a severance payment if they are sold without submitting a transfer request. Barry evidently stands to make £3m from his contract if he doesn't submit a request. Just shows you how truly desperate he is to play for them if he won't hand a request in.

golden_blunder · 7th July 2008, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by redman5

Yet, here we have 2 experienced managers, one desperate to keep hold of him, & the other desperate to sign him. Doesn't that kinda suggest he might be a bit of alright ?.

actually O'Neill is prepared to sell him but takes offence at Liverpools gypsy attempts to buy him

If Liverpool think he is that good and their top priority why dont they stump up the cash to get him? Villa dont want your castoffs in part exchange

Stick · 7th July 2008, 13:13

I dont rate Barry. Villa can keep him.

6th July 2008, 19:19	#45 (permalink)
CnutOfAllCnuts Bald Boring Cnut Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,111	Liverpool signed 54 players in 20 years between 1970 and 1990. Benitez has signed 40 players in 4 years as Liverpool manager....

6th July 2008, 19:22	#46 (permalink)
samabachan Cockface McSticklebrick Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: He plays on the left, he plays on the riiiiiiiight, our boy Ronaldo made you look shite. Posts: 4,283	Once again Boring owns a dipper with stats.

6th July 2008, 19:52	#47 (permalink)
CnutOfAllCnuts Bald Boring Cnut Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,111	Funny thing is, in the 70's and 80's United outspent Liverpool, when Liverpool were dominant. In the 90's, Liverpool outspent United - and United were dominating.

7th July 2008, 01:58	#52 (permalink)
Majestic16 Youth Team Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sack Quieroz, Sell Ronaldo. Posts: 383	Still waiting for a reply about the transfer request comment.... Do clubs pay the remainder of a player's contract when he is sold? Is that payment gone when he hands in a transfer request??

7th July 2008, 05:09	#56 (permalink)
reddevilcanada First Team Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,108

7th July 2008, 12:13	#61 (permalink)
jasonrh Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: "You sir, are the syphilitic cockbiscuit son of a hamster rimmer."; "Sir Alex Ferguson, trainer of the English champions, wants to start the spoon fruits since early." Posts: 59,058	Only the scousers would try to prove that they're the poor boys on the block by forcing people to go all the way back to when Harold McMillian was PM then cutting it all off 20 years ago in order to not talk about the realities of the last TWO DECADES. If they' spent 7m less than us in that two decades, they've spent what 12 or 13 more than us net since? So they're highest net spenders since 1970 then? Are we allowed to cite a 40 year trend without being attacked for making up random irrelevant pro-United artbitary cutoff dates? As usual, the LFC story can be summarised thus: 1. (Lie) They say we are only dominant because of Sky Money and because they have no money and are so poor. 1. (Truth) They spend net more than us and have for decades. 2. (Lie) They say we are only dominant because our manager isn't stuck with players from the previous regime. 2. (Truth) They buy about a squad of players a year. Presumably Carragher and Gerrard are the Houllier dead-weights that are keeping the team back now.

7th July 2008, 12:23	#62 (permalink)
jasonrh Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: "You sir, are the syphilitic cockbiscuit son of a hamster rimmer."; "Sir Alex Ferguson, trainer of the English champions, wants to start the spoon fruits since early." Posts: 59,058	That 40 number really is a miracle when you think about it. How many players have Chelsea signed since Abramovich? Benitez has purchased 40+ first team players - Erik Nevland in 1998 was 40 First Team signings ago for us. Benitez in his 40 signings: 1 European Cup 1 FA Cup Ferguson in his last 40 signings: 2 European Cups 6 League Titles 2 FA Cups 1 Intercontinental Cup 1 League Cup 2 Charity Shields (hey, Murph counts it alongside the 'Finished 2nd in 2002' Cup) Congrats Rafa, you've done really well for yourself. We all know that stability and quality are the keys to long-term success. Thank you for continuing to fail to provide that stability and quality at Liverpool.

7th July 2008, 13:13	#66 (permalink)
Stick Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,496	I dont rate Barry. Villa can keep him.