City: Is it Mancini who has the problem?

KM · 27th January 2012, 19:44

Tevez already featured in the Champions League before that match, so the case of cup tieing was out of question.

Zarlak · 27th January 2012, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

Is it just me who thinks Mancini's been a bit of a bellend?

I'm not going to defend Tevez or that weird bond villain agent of his, but Mancini did kind of manufacture this situation for himself.

He knew Tevez wanted out, and he knew the club wanted to recoup as much money as they could for him...and yet he puts Tevez on the bench for a CL game and then tries to bring him on and void any interest in him from the Milan clubs. Someone had obviously had a word in Tevez's ear and told him not to play (either that or he's less thick than he looks/usually acts)...and then afterwards Mancini comes out and tells the world what had just happened, presumably in some plight of self sorrow or excuse finding. He acted like an oaf...and yes, there are valid question marks over his handling of various other players, and general, pre-Wengeresque meltdown behaviour of recent weeks.

I don't think he's as "classy" as everyone seems to keep telling me he is, at the very least. He's feeling the pressure and doing a gradually worsening job of hiding it.

It doesn't really matter though. He's a Manchester City employee. If Mancini wants to play him on the bench for 37 games a season and then bring him on for Joe Hart in the last game of the season then Tevez does it. Whether he's happy with it or not is a conversation for later. He's required by the terms of his employment to play for Manchester City when they ask. Whether he wants to go somewhere else or not doesn't really matter. You can't refuse to work, just because it means you can't leave your employer to play somewhere else if you do the job that you signed a contract to do.

It's Tevez's fault completely.

RedRob · 27th January 2012, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

Is it just me who thinks Mancini's been a bit of a bellend?

I'm not going to defend Tevez or that weird bond villain agent of his, but Mancini did kind of manufacture this situation for himself.

He knew Tevez wanted out, and he knew the club wanted to recoup as much money as they could for him...and yet he puts Tevez on the bench for a CL game and then tries to bring him on and void any interest in him from the Milan clubs. Someone had obviously had a word in Tevez's ear and told him not to play (either that or he's less thick than he looks/usually acts)...and then afterwards Mancini comes out and tells the world what had just happened, presumably in some plight of self sorrow or excuse finding. He acted like an oaf...and yes, there are valid question marks over his handling of various other players, and general, pre-Wengeresque meltdown behaviour of recent weeks.

I don't think he's as "classy" as everyone seems to keep telling me he is, at the very least. He's feeling the pressure and doing a gradually worsening job of hiding it.

That's some almighty conspiracy theory!

As far as Tevez goes, City should have known what they were getting into. Running back to his youth career, he seems to have left every club he's been at on bad terms, with West Ham being the only exception.

Mancini was expecting him to know his role in the squad - not a guaranteed starter - and, with City not beating Munich, tried to bring him on, to reshuffle things in attack. Tevez's refusal to come on was unprecedented, even for him. If Mancini had orchestrated this, Tevez wouldn't have been bleating on about "language barriers"; he'd have gone right for the throat. Mancini can be accused of poor man-management here, of failing to foresee Tevez's poor attitude in a familiar situation (see: his attitude when Berbatov joined United and he had to fight for his place), but it's beyond belief that he set Tevez up like this, especially when failure to progress past the group stages would have more ominous implications for Mancini than anyone else.

Hal9000 · 27th January 2012, 20:00

Anyone seen his latest interview claiming that ref's get tired.

Roberto Mancini in ref fatigue theory | The Sun |Sport|Football

Don't see how that's anything different, just done more tactfully, than what Fergie said. Maybe because Mancini hasn't mentioned names...

noodlehair · 27th January 2012, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

It doesn't really matter though. He's a Manchester City employee. If Mancini wants to play him on the bench for 37 games a season and then bring him on for Joe Hart in the last game of the season then Tevez does it. Whether he's happy with it or not is a conversation for later. He's required by the terms of his employment to play for Manchester City when they ask. Whether he wants to go somewhere else or not doesn't really matter. You can't refuse to work, just because it means you can't leave your employer to play somewhere else if you do the job that you signed a contract to do.

It's Tevez's fault completely.

It's never one person's fault completely.

If you're a manager, your job is to manage your players. Getting to the stage where one of them is both impossible to play or get rid of is obviousy not good management...that's not to say Tevez isn't a cock, but if you're a manager, tough, you find a way to deal with it or you cut your loses. You don't do neither and then act like a child about it. Joorabchian makes a fair point in bringing that up. Mancini hasn't handled it well...he's also letting one of his players (Bridge) take home wages every week for doing literally nothing. This is also poor management. Farcical even.

It's wrong to just dismiss it on the grounds that players are twats. Some players are twats, but this applies to every club...and most clubs can't afford to have their manager throw hissy fits and isolate two or three multi million pound value players from the squad.

Lets be honest, Mancini's sort of likable, but he's got one of the easier jobs in the league and yet whines about his hardships more than most. So scrutiny is fair game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRob

That's some almighty conspiracy theory!

As far as Tevez goes, City should have known what they were getting into. Running back to his youth career, he seems to have left every club he's been at on bad terms, with West Ham being the only exception.

Mancini was expecting him to know his role in the squad - not a guaranteed starter - and, with City not beating Munich, tried to bring him on, to reshuffle things in attack. Tevez's refusal to come on was unprecedented, even for him. If Mancini had orchestrated this, Tevez wouldn't have been bleating on about "language barriers"; he'd have gone right for the throat. Mancini can be accused of poor man-management here, of failing to foresee Tevez's poor attitude in a familiar situation (see: his attitude when Berbatov joined United and he had to fight for his place), but it's beyond belief that he set Tevez up like this, especially when failure to progress past the group stages would have more ominous implications for Mancini than anyone else.

It's not a conspiracy theory, but, if what KM said is right and Tevez had already played in the CL this season anyway, it is completely wrong and therefor a load of nonsense.

KM · 27th January 2012, 20:19

BBC Sport - Man City fight back to earn draw

He came on as a 81st minute sub for Dzeko in the match against Napoli.
I'm never wrong.

noodlehair · 27th January 2012, 20:24

You've just made the list.

Waltraute · 27th January 2012, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

You've just made the list.

Of people you shoot up to that 7-Clásicos-a-week (Complimentary Mourinho shirt included) planet, or people you wear your angry hat at?

You didn't seriously imagine Mancini tried to cup-tie Tevez out of pure spite, did you?

I'm not saying you haven't got a point regarding a manager actually managing a player, but if you look at the history of Tevez/Joorabchian you'll only see scorched earth. Mancini may have his faults, but failing to settle Tevez (and get him out of Joorabchian's clutches) is hardly one of them.

MrMarcello · 27th January 2012, 21:00

If this were SAF not a single person would even consider the idea of a manager trying to screw over a player like the Mancini-Tevez-CL conspiracy above. Granted it's obviously moot since Tevez had previously played. But this comes down to one person - Tevez. He's a grade one cunt.

noodlehair · 27th January 2012, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltraute

Of people you shoot up to that 7-Clásicos-a-week (Complimentary Mourinho shirt included) planet, or people you wear your angry hat at?

You didn't seriously imagine Mancini tried to cup-tie Tevez out of pure spite, did you?

I'm not saying you haven't got a point regarding a manager actually managing a player, but if you look at the history of Tevez/Joorabchian you'll only see scorched earth. Mancini may have his faults, but failing to settle Tevez (and get him out of Joorabchian's clutches) is hardly one of them.

No, it's a different list, which I'm keeping for when I eventually become overlord. Sort of like the opposite of a christmas list.

I don't know what Mancini was doing. Spite no, but maybe just idiocy, or as a means to get people on his side. It doesn't matter since KM had to go and be a smart arse and ruin the whole premise with cold, boring facts.

I still don't think it's been handled at all well, otherwise Tevez wouldn't still be there. It's not "entirely down to Tevez" when he made it clear he wanted to leave a year ago, and yet wasn't sold...that wasn't his decision. Here's a disruptive player who will be of no use to us and likely be a big problem, I know, lets keep him around, just for the giggles.

If you know you've got a flat tyre, and choose to drive up to Manchester on it anyway, it's not the tyre's fault when you end up stranded on the M1 with no tyre and a damaged wheel. It doesn't mean it wasn't a shit tyre, but you're the fuckwit who neither fixed or got rid of it.

Also, why does Mancini allow the club to pay Wayne Bridge thousands of pounds a week to play golf? Is this down to Carlos Tevez as well? ...Carlos Tevez told Wayne Bridge to go and take up golf and now he wont come back? Or possibly, Mancini has missmanaged the situation quite badly.

Roberto Mancini complains on numerous occasions that he doesn't have enough players, and yet at the same time, he lets one of his players swan off to play golf for about 6 months, and he lets another train with the reserves. Sorry Roberto, but children refuse to eat their dinner and then complain about being hungry. Adults manage with what they're given.

Also, if I end up having to post a link to the meaning of the word "conspiracy", I'm putting my angry hat on.

marjen · 27th January 2012, 21:55

I think Mancini has given away signs of feeling the pressure quite a bit.

Let's hope we're right.

Varun_Utd · 28th January 2012, 07:01

Refusing to come on is very unprofessional and there's no real excuse for it. Tevez has been very unprofessional the entire time since. Running off home etc. I actually appreciated the way mancini handled the episode.

But, to put things in perspective, it reflects not really on his man management skills but on the actual wealth the club has. Not many clubs could afford to keep their 200k a week man on the bench and not even sell him.

Mancini does come across as a big whiner though. Moaning about lack of squad depth really got on my tits the last time, if there was one manager in the world who isnt entitled to moaning about not having enough players, its that italian.

AttackingFlair · 28th January 2012, 07:12

The players listed in the OP are either not good enough or have a poor attitude. Someone like Bridge for example, gets paid a huge amount but performs like a league one defender.. I'd probably freeze him out too.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 28th January 2012, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Just listened to Joorabchian and he did appear to make some interesting points as regards Mancini's relationships with players.He mentioned Adebayor,Given,Bridge and of course Tevez all being frozen out by the manager.

Just got me thinking if SAF would have acted any differently? Or is Kia just playing the victim card?

Victim card

amolbhatia100 · 28th January 2012, 07:56

They're 3 points clear at the top. He's hardly a 'problem'.

noodlehair · 28th January 2012, 08:30

Or alternatively, despite spending enough money to blow every other team in Europe out of the water, they're only 3 points clear and were knocked out of both the CL and the FA cup at the earliest possible stages.

If they don't stumble towards winning the league, a season of collosal failure awaits.

amolbhatia100 · 28th January 2012, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

Or alternatively, despite spending enough money to blow every other team in Europe out of the water, they're only 3 points clear and were knocked out of both the CL and the FA cup at the earliest possible stages.

If they don't stumble towards winning the league, a season of collosal failure awaits.

I'm not actually advocating that he's done brilliantly. I believe that eventually City will win titles as long as they have someone good at the helm rather than needing managerial brilliance. So yeah, for me them being top isn't indicative of him being superb. However, as things stand, it's daft to call him a 'problem' when they're intact on target to meet expectations set for them for the current season.

cj4_elmo · 28th January 2012, 09:51

Mancini seems like the example of a manager who has his favourite players and give them as much slack as they want whilst being tough on everyone else.

noodlehair · 28th January 2012, 10:01

I reckon "win the league" was a bare minimum target this season, and they might not actually do it unless they start playing better than they hove done for the last month and a half or so.

I'd still say it's too early to judge whether Mancini has what it takes, but, if we're being critical, then there are valid criticisms there...he HAS fallen out wth more than one player and yet he's whining and bitching about not having enough players, when it's been HIS job for over two years to make sure that situation doesn't happen...it doesn't help when you a) keep telling the players you already have to fuck off, and b) sign Owen Hargreaves as injury cover.

Jimy_Hills_Chin · 28th January 2012, 10:09

Personally I think that Mancini is underperfroming considering the vast resources that he has.

Regarding the OP's question. You can't really pin this Tevez nonsense on him as the guy never lasts more than two seasons at any club, always leaving under a cloud. Adebayor is another drifter with seeming attitude problems and the rest on the list are unimportant.

If Mancini fails to pick up a trophy this year then I think that he will be sacked and rightly so. City's squad is immense and needs to be picking up at least a trophy a season to justify the outlay on transfers.

Zarlak · 28th January 2012, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

It's never one person's fault completely.

If you're a manager, your job is to manage your players. Getting to the stage where one of them is both impossible to play or get rid of is obviousy not good management...that's not to say Tevez isn't a cock, but if you're a manager, tough, you find a way to deal with it or you cut your loses. You don't do neither and then act like a child about it. Joorabchian makes a fair point in bringing that up. Mancini hasn't handled it well...he's also letting one of his players (Bridge) take home wages every week for doing literally nothing. This is also poor management. Farcical even.

I agree with that completely, but still it doesn't give Tevez the right to take his action and decide not to fulfil the terms of his employment. That's a conversation for Mancinis boss to have with Mancini. What's happened is a result of him stepping out of place. If your boss is shit you go to his boss, you dont'refuse to work.

RE: Your later post I agree with that, it's funny that at their best they're only 3 points clear of us who are having a defensive crisis and playing poorly.

noodlehair · 28th January 2012, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarlak

I agree with that completely, but still it doesn't give Tevez the right to take his action and decide not to fulfil the terms of his employment. That's a conversation for Mancinis boss to have with Mancini. What's happened is a result of him stepping out of place. If your boss is shit you go to his boss, you dont'refuse to work.

RE: Your later post I agree with that, it's funny that at their best they're only 3 points clear of us who are having a defensive crisis and playing poorly.

Yep. I'm not defending Tevez at all, but I do think Mancini could have handled the situation better. He's extremely lucky he's manager of City. At pretty much any other club, you wouldn't be able to fall out with two or three multi million pound talents, and then instead of dealing with them, just freeze them out and keep them on the wage bill. You'd be told to deal with them, move them on and get adequate replacements in, or you'd be sacked.

Varun_Utd · 28th January 2012, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

Yep. I'm not defending Tevez at all, but I do think Mancini could have handled the situation better. He's extremely lucky he's manager of City. At pretty much any other club, you wouldn't be able to fall out with two or three multi million pound talents, and then instead of dealing with them, just freeze them out and keep them on the wage bill. You'd be told to deal with them, move them on and get adequate replacements in, or you'd be sacked.

Exactly, for all the talk of him dealing with the tevez incident brilliantly, it was the massive wealth that enabled him to. There's no way you could have a player on your books for 200k a week and then neither play him nor sell him at any other club.

Sarni · 28th January 2012, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimy_Hills_Chin

Personally I think that Mancini is underperfroming considering the vast resources that he has.

Regarding the OP's question. You can't really pin this Tevez nonsense on him as the guy never lasts more than two seasons at any club, always leaving under a cloud. Adebayor is another drifter with seeming attitude problems and the rest on the list are unimportant.

If Mancini fails to pick up a trophy this year then I think that he will be sacked and rightly so. City's squad is immense and needs to be picking up at least a trophy a season to justify the outlay on transfers.

They're top of the league by three points in January after some wonderful league results, how the hell is he underpeforming? They've done better than us so far this season and could finish above us, it's likely. All that built in two years here is a very good achievement.

marjen · 28th January 2012, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

They're top of the league by three points in January after some wonderful league results, how the hell is he underpeforming?

They've lost basically every match where the stakes have been high, against decent opposition, this season, bar the 1-6 match vs us, which was a freak result(as showed by our other two clashes with them.)

I wouldn't trust City to withstand the pressure, and along the way, they've been disproportionally lucky with injuries. Compared to us it's two different worlds.

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27th January 2012, 19:44	#41 (permalink)
KM First Team Regular Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Delhi... Posts: 13,071	Tevez already featured in the Champions League before that match, so the case of cup tieing was out of question.

27th January 2012, 20:00	#44 (permalink)
Hal9000 Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,507	Anyone seen his latest interview claiming that ref's get tired. Roberto Mancini in ref fatigue theory \| The Sun \|Sport\|Football Don't see how that's anything different, just done more tactfully, than what Fergie said. Maybe because Mancini hasn't mentioned names...

27th January 2012, 20:19	#46 (permalink)
KM First Team Regular Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Delhi... Posts: 13,071	BBC Sport - Man City fight back to earn draw He came on as a 81st minute sub for Dzeko in the match against Napoli. I'm never wrong.

27th January 2012, 20:24	#47 (permalink)
noodlehair "It's like..." Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Flagg Posts: 1,464	You've just made the list.

27th January 2012, 21:00	#49 (permalink)
MrMarcello No Lifer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Georgia Posts: 31,577	If this were SAF not a single person would even consider the idea of a manager trying to screw over a player like the Mancini-Tevez-CL conspiracy above. Granted it's obviously moot since Tevez had previously played. But this comes down to one person - Tevez. He's a grade one cunt.

27th January 2012, 21:55	#51 (permalink)
marjen Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: at the back post, lurking around, waiting for an easy tap-in. Posts: 3,331	I think Mancini has given away signs of feeling the pressure quite a bit. Let's hope we're right.

28th January 2012, 07:01	#52 (permalink)
Varun_Utd Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Behind the Striker. Posts: 4,446	Refusing to come on is very unprofessional and there's no real excuse for it. Tevez has been very unprofessional the entire time since. Running off home etc. I actually appreciated the way mancini handled the episode. But, to put things in perspective, it reflects not really on his man management skills but on the actual wealth the club has. Not many clubs could afford to keep their 200k a week man on the bench and not even sell him. Mancini does come across as a big whiner though. Moaning about lack of squad depth really got on my tits the last time, if there was one manager in the world who isnt entitled to moaning about not having enough players, its that italian.

28th January 2012, 07:12	#53 (permalink)
AttackingFlair First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,772	The players listed in the OP are either not good enough or have a poor attitude. Someone like Bridge for example, gets paid a huge amount but performs like a league one defender.. I'd probably freeze him out too.

28th January 2012, 07:56	#55 (permalink)
amolbhatia100 Has excellent taste in women Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: india Posts: 26,591	They're 3 points clear at the top. He's hardly a 'problem'.

28th January 2012, 08:30	#56 (permalink)
noodlehair "It's like..." Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Flagg Posts: 1,464	Or alternatively, despite spending enough money to blow every other team in Europe out of the water, they're only 3 points clear and were knocked out of both the CL and the FA cup at the earliest possible stages. If they don't stumble towards winning the league, a season of collosal failure awaits.

28th January 2012, 09:51	#58 (permalink)
cj4_elmo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla Posts: 3,154	Mancini seems like the example of a manager who has his favourite players and give them as much slack as they want whilst being tough on everyone else.

28th January 2012, 10:01	#59 (permalink)
noodlehair "It's like..." Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Flagg Posts: 1,464	I reckon "win the league" was a bare minimum target this season, and they might not actually do it unless they start playing better than they hove done for the last month and a half or so. I'd still say it's too early to judge whether Mancini has what it takes, but, if we're being critical, then there are valid criticisms there...he HAS fallen out wth more than one player and yet he's whining and bitching about not having enough players, when it's been HIS job for over two years to make sure that situation doesn't happen...it doesn't help when you a) keep telling the players you already have to fuck off, and b) sign Owen Hargreaves as injury cover.

28th January 2012, 10:09	#60 (permalink)
Jimy_Hills_Chin Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,770	Personally I think that Mancini is underperfroming considering the vast resources that he has. Regarding the OP's question. You can't really pin this Tevez nonsense on him as the guy never lasts more than two seasons at any club, always leaving under a cloud. Adebayor is another drifter with seeming attitude problems and the rest on the list are unimportant. If Mancini fails to pick up a trophy this year then I think that he will be sacked and rightly so. City's squad is immense and needs to be picking up at least a trophy a season to justify the outlay on transfers.