England - So much for change...

Sam#1 · 27th March 2008, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coxy

Can't believe so many people are having a pop at the original poster. His main point was that players are being picked on reputation rather than forum - just like previous managers did.

It is a bit early to tell if that is right or not - but yeah picking people like Crouch instead of Defoe does suggest it is reputation again..

Thank you.

And that's my point. I don't mind that we lost to France, I expected we would. But we were told that repudiation means nothing under Capello and that players will be picked on form alone, well, already, after only 2 matches, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Instant Karma · 27th March 2008, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

But we were told that repudiation means nothing under Capello and that players will be picked on form alone, well, already, after only 2 matches, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Back to posting your usual crap without understanding what was said?

At no point did Capello say that he will pick players on form 'alone'. Obviously his tactics and players that offer something different like Crouch, Walcott will be in the reckoning. All he said was that reputation will not be the most important criteria - the fact that Downing, Bentley, Barry, Brown, Johnson, Lescott were given a good run out indicates that.

And people keep banging on about Defoe scoring goals but so can Kitson or Doyle. The likes of Sven/Jol/Ramos haven't rated Defoe and the fact that top clubs wouldn't go for him even though they needed strikers in the recent past indicates that he lacks something needed to play at the highest level (maybe team spirit or work ethic)

Dippersripper · 27th March 2008, 18:04

Picking on form alone is overrated. If you pick players on form alone, it will be worse than Rafa's rotation system. I agree with IK on this one.

ralphie88 · 27th March 2008, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

England don't have a huge pool of quality players (...)
Why do the English fans still feel that this side can expect to go to France and get a result?

I'd agree with the first part.

However, France are not exactly world-beaters at the moment either. They're going to get dicked at the Euros.

Sam#1 · 27th March 2008, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Back to posting your usual crap without understanding what was said?

At no point did Capello say that he will pick players on form 'alone'. Obviously his tactics and players that offer something different like Crouch, Walcott will be in the reckoning. All he said was that reputation will not be the most important criteria - the fact that Downing, Bentley, Barry, Brown, Johnson, Lescott were given a good run out indicates that.

And people keep banging on about Defoe scoring goals but so can Kitson or Doyle. The likes of Sven/Jol/Ramos haven't rated Defoe and the fact that top clubs wouldn't go for him even though they needed strikers in the recent past indicates that he lacks something needed to play at the highest level (maybe team spirit or work ethic)

He said reputation and name would count for nowt. If you played well enough, you'd get a chance.

Green, Woodgate, Carrick, Young, Agbonlahor, Defoe, Kitson.....

They've all had fantastic seasons and haven't seen given a chance. That's not to say they won't in the future, however, he's picked Beckham, Hargreaves, Walcott, Crouch.....and what have they done in the past few months to warrant anything like an England call up ahead of the list of names above ?

Sam#1 · 27th March 2008, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Why do the English fans still feel that this side can expect to go to France and get a result?

They don't.

Everyone expected France to win.

Wes · 27th March 2008, 18:46

Sam, Kitson won't get a game for England. No friggin way.

Sam#1 · 27th March 2008, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

Sam, Kitson won't get a game for England. No friggin way.

He's the leading English scorer this season, whilst playing for Reading.

I don't particularly like the guy, but he's a good footballer. Just because he's tall, don't think he's just a 'lump the ball high at him' type player', he's very good on the ground.

If Shorey can get a game for England (

), Kits certainly can.

Ramshock · 28th March 2008, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesBrownIsAGod

Thought i'd have a few to explain.

Crouch needs to be in the squad, as a way to change the game, by getting Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard et al to get knock downs off him. Englands strength is those sorts of players. They're all likely goal scorers. Besides, Crouch has done supremely well for england, and scored a lot of goals. A compelling argument.

Robinson has played a few good games for Spurs, and has been involved with the squad on previous occaisons, he's as fair a deputy as there is. He needs to loose weight more than anything, fine keeper before the world cup, his experiences have ruined his confidence. Same with Carson.

Hargreaves has played a few really big games for United, away to Arsenal and Liverpool and got victories. The press reckons he should be in the squad because Ferguson obviously rates him, and rather to be shown up by SAF once again, the media is in this case trying to be ahead of the game. That blind faith will only last so long.

Some might start to think you care about the english team

Sam#1 · 28th May 2008, 20:45

What's the difference between this, and when Sven or Mclaren where in charge?

FlawlessThaw · 28th May 2008, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

What's the difference between this, and when Sven or Mclaren where in charge?

Gerrard is playing on the left instead of on the right?

Sam#1 · 28th May 2008, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlawlessThaw

Gerrard is playing on the left instead of on the right?

Aye, it's tactical genius.

CockneyHammer · 28th May 2008, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Owen has been shit, ok, he's scored 2 goals, but Defoe has 6 in 3, while Young and Agbonlahor have been terrific all damn season, do they get a look in ? No, of course not. Because he is Michael Owen, he plays. Christ, Kitson is the leading English scorer this season and he plays for Reading, will he get a chance ? Of course not.

Downing has done nothing to deserve and England call up.

Defoe hasn't scored since March 29th

Since then Rooney has 5, Crouch 3 and Ashton has 3 in his last 3 games

It should have been Rooney and Crouch or Ashton if he was basing his choices on form

IBleedRed · 28th May 2008, 21:16

too bad its taking wenger so long to give walcott any playing time
if he had progressed like alot had hoped he would then he could help ease englands striker woes

sincher · 28th May 2008, 21:17

England fans - so much for change.

2Bullish · 28th May 2008, 21:37

I agree with the original post Beckham (assist), Terry (goal) should not be on the pitch as this is a new manager that does not need England fans to ride on the wave of wins. In fact he should be the tinkerman and lose a few so we can blood a few new players, that way we can get to Euro 08.....mmmmm........doh.

Slevin · 28th May 2008, 23:04

Heh...

You guys ever thought he is trying everyone in training anyway? Checking stuff etc..

I wonder why all you cunts aren't managers.

Bape · 29th May 2008, 01:10

Interesting article here..

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20..._from_eng.html

Not sure how much I agree with it, valid points made I guess

And a post in response to that article..

Quote:

So depressing,england play languid Beckham-infused garbage in the first half and then he goes off and we actually begin to remember how an england midfield can play if given freedoom.How much longer are the rest of our midfield going to be charged with covering the tiresome Beckham?We get NOTHING new from fielding Beckham,he sits there like a deacdent old Queen hoping and praying the game will stop before england get overrun due to him and he can lob a ball into the box and pray the other team cant defend then he gets the "glory".We then face REAL opposition and all Beckhams flaws come out like a rash and england get thoruoghly embarrassed.We have to move this side forward,what we saw in the second half was exactly where we need to travel to build a new future.Beckham is like a bad horror film baddie,popping up grinning inanely saying "im still the man in your dreams,you cant get rid of me".What will it take-a 6th tournament humilation?If i was feeling particulary malicious id almost hope for one final outright creamtion of Beckham and the cult of Beckham in south arfica that wed thought wed seen with that tear-stained exit in Germany but i want england to finally deliver in a tournament so let us hope for his sake as much as ours we are not put through it one more time.

Drama queen and anti-beckham to its fullest, but is there a little bit of truth in there?

peterstorey · 29th May 2008, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

What's the difference between this, and when Sven or Mclaren where in charge?

Better than McClaren cos he was a clueless twat. Exactly the same as Sven because it's exactly the same set of players.

Alex · 29th May 2008, 08:37

As an unbiased outsider, I say England have been shit since Sven left, he is a top class manager, might be a weirdo but wtf. It could have been quite different if Rooney didnt break his foot v. Portugal(weird how Paul Scholes was in this England). In all honesty, other than GK England usually have a pretty solid squad, they just really need a player like Scholes, which makes me flaberrgasted that Carrick isnt in the side these days, sad days for England though, wouldnt put it past a rejuvenated Scholes to return to the England squad for the Euro squad. regardless if he was in the team they would have qualified, EASILY

FranklyVulgar · 29th May 2008, 08:47

To be honest i would say the problem lies with the players. Not enough are suited to International football and look a shadow of themselves on the international stage. Don't know why it happens but sometimes you get players who are fantastic in club football but never really do it Internationally and vice versa. But from what i can tell England have alot of players who look worldclass at their clubs but look quite average internationally. Even against the USA who were in all honesty about as poor an international team as i've seen.

red2deadboy · 29th May 2008, 09:08

I think the england side contains to many similiar players in midfield and has no real pace, or many players who can take a man on. It ok picking experienced players but remember these are the same players who never got us to euro's and i'de rather us be trying to pick a fresh looking side for the world cup.

----------------Hart
Johnstone---Rio------Terry----Cole
---------------Harg
Rooney------Gerrard---------Young
----------------Ashton
-----------Walcott

I think the above team with a bit more playing time would posses more attacking threat, and have the added bonus of youthfull no fear and experience.

Alex · 29th May 2008, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

To be honest i would say the problem lies with the players. Not enough are suited to International football and look a shadow of themselves on the international stage. Don't know why it happens but sometimes you get players who are fantastic in club football but never really do it Internationally and vice versa. But from what i can tell England have alot of players who look worldclass at their clubs but look quite average internationally. Even against the USA who were in all honesty about as poor an international team as i've seen.

Agree with the first sentence to some degree, which is why it's like wtf with no Carrick in the lineup, tbh I think a player like Carrick would be rated even higher in the Serie A just because of the pace of the game and the fact he would have more time on the ball. Manchester United's trophy haul since the man's arrival speaks for itself. Felt like he really arrived v. Blackburn in 2007, when he scored the winner(don't get me wrong his performance v. Roma was legendayr, But after this), lwhat a play all around though Ronaldo does asingle stepover and beats the defender out his pants crosses on the floor through the box rolls through everybody to Carrick from probably 17 or so yds and instead of slamming it he passes the ball in as purely as youve ever seen.

The fact that he is not in England's first XI let alone squad is mind boggling, weird how he wasnt considered anything special when United signed him and two years later he is first choice in their first XI right in the heart of the midfield.

I remember people dreadfully saying he might cost 18.6 mil if United won the CL, wtf are you kidding me, I'd say United got the best of the deal money is money, and trophies are trophies and on a side note trophies = money

FranklyVulgar · 29th May 2008, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Agree with the first sentence to some degree, which is why it's like wtf with no Carrick in the lineup, tbh I think a player like Carrick would be rated even higher in the Serie A just because of the pace of the game and the fact he would have more time on the ball. Manchester United's trophy haul since the man's arrival speaks for itself. Felt like he really arrived v. Blackburn in 2007, when he scored the winner(don't get me wrong his performance v. Roma was legendayr, But after this), lwhat a play all around though Ronaldo does asingle stepover and beats the defender out his pants crosses on the floor through the box rolls through everybody to Carrick from probably 17 or so yds and instead of slamming it he passes the ball in as purely as youve ever seen.

The fact that he is not in England's first XI let alone squad is mind boggling, weird how he wasnt considered anything special when United signed him and two years later he is first choice in their first XI right in the heart of the midfield.

I remember people dreadfully saying he might cost 18.6 mil if United won the CL, wtf are you kidding me, I'd say United got the best of the deal money is money, and trophies are trophies and on a side note trophies = money

The thing is he will always try to accomodate Gerrard and to a certain degree Lampard but Barry seems to be rated highly. I guess he wants all his midfielders to be dynamic and energetic and whilst Carrick is a good passer he doesn't have the same drive as Gerrard, Barry or Hargreaves.

Hargreaves again stood out for England, he is really suited to international football. Perhaps because he played abroad for much of his career?

Sam#1 · 20th August 2008, 19:39

5 months on and....

James
Wes
Rio
Terry
Cole
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard
Barry
Defoe
Rooney

Thats some good work Capello, just play the exact same team as Mclaren did. So much for change.

Rowem · 20th August 2008, 19:42

I understand complaining about Beckham but Gerrard, Lampard and A.Cole are three of England's better players.

Sam#1 · 20th August 2008, 21:59

Count Duckula · 20th August 2008, 22:03

I could understand being annoyed at Beckham's inclusion, but you can't honestly expect an England manager to drop Gerrard and Lampard? Who would you play instead? Carrick and Hargreaves no doubt.

Gerrard and Lampard are two of the stand-out central midfielders in our league, and maybe in the world. They're the lynchpins of their successful clubs and to not include them in the national team is ridiculous.

The reason England play shite football and go out of tournaments "early" all the time is because, shockingly, they're shite. Not because of players being "picked on reputation".

BlahRules · 20th August 2008, 22:06

The day we start winning it will be when we change game play into more direct and flair. Use players like Young and Agbonahal on the wings;

20th August 2008, 21:59	#107 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: :( Like being stabbed in the heart.....It just won't stop hurting :( Posts: 12,984	lol

27th March 2008, 18:04	#83 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors. Posts: 7,519	Picking on form alone is overrated. If you pick players on form alone, it will be worse than Rafa's rotation system. I agree with IK on this one.

27th March 2008, 18:46	#87 (permalink)
Wes Brown is no God Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, in the Irish Republic Posts: 7,177	Sam, Kitson won't get a game for England. No friggin way.

28th May 2008, 20:45	#90 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: :( Like being stabbed in the heart.....It just won't stop hurting :( Posts: 12,984	What's the difference between this, and when Sven or Mclaren where in charge?

28th May 2008, 21:16	#94 (permalink)
IBleedRed likes to use pantyhose Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: apparently uses the term "limey" too much Posts: 4,026	too bad its taking wenger so long to give walcott any playing time if he had progressed like alot had hoped he would then he could help ease englands striker woes

28th May 2008, 21:17	#95 (permalink)
sincher Les jeux sont Fait Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: YSC Posts: 13,698	England fans - so much for change.

28th May 2008, 21:37	#96 (permalink)
2Bullish Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arcadia with a mortgage. Posts: 3,819	I agree with the original post Beckham (assist), Terry (goal) should not be on the pitch as this is a new manager that does not need England fans to ride on the wave of wins. In fact he should be the tinkerman and lose a few so we can blood a few new players, that way we can get to Euro 08.....mmmmm........doh.

28th May 2008, 23:04	#97 (permalink)
Slevin Reserve Team Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hartlepool Posts: 1,151	Heh... You guys ever thought he is trying everyone in training anyway? Checking stuff etc.. I wonder why all you cunts aren't managers.

29th May 2008, 08:37	#100 (permalink)
Alex Spam Alert! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Planet Dimitar Posts: 17,010	As an unbiased outsider, I say England have been shit since Sven left, he is a top class manager, might be a weirdo but wtf. It could have been quite different if Rooney didnt break his foot v. Portugal(weird how Paul Scholes was in this England). In all honesty, other than GK England usually have a pretty solid squad, they just really need a player like Scholes, which makes me flaberrgasted that Carrick isnt in the side these days, sad days for England though, wouldnt put it past a rejuvenated Scholes to return to the England squad for the Euro squad. regardless if he was in the team they would have qualified, EASILY

29th May 2008, 08:47	#101 (permalink)
FranklyVulgar Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In amoungst the pigs raising hell Posts: 1,869	To be honest i would say the problem lies with the players. Not enough are suited to International football and look a shadow of themselves on the international stage. Don't know why it happens but sometimes you get players who are fantastic in club football but never really do it Internationally and vice versa. But from what i can tell England have alot of players who look worldclass at their clubs but look quite average internationally. Even against the USA who were in all honesty about as poor an international team as i've seen.

29th May 2008, 09:08	#102 (permalink)
red2deadboy Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,045	I think the england side contains to many similiar players in midfield and has no real pace, or many players who can take a man on. It ok picking experienced players but remember these are the same players who never got us to euro's and i'de rather us be trying to pick a fresh looking side for the world cup. ----------------Hart Johnstone---Rio------Terry----Cole ---------------Harg Rooney------Gerrard---------Young ----------------Ashton -----------Walcott I think the above team with a bit more playing time would posses more attacking threat, and have the added bonus of youthfull no fear and experience.

20th August 2008, 19:39	#105 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: :( Like being stabbed in the heart.....It just won't stop hurting :( Posts: 12,984	5 months on and.... James Wes Rio Terry Cole Beckham Gerrard Lampard Barry Defoe Rooney Thats some good work Capello, just play the exact same team as Mclaren did. So much for change.

20th August 2008, 19:42	#106 (permalink)
Rowem Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,283	I understand complaining about Beckham but Gerrard, Lampard and A.Cole are three of England's better players.

20th August 2008, 22:03	#108 (permalink)
Count Duckula First Team Sub Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In the corner, losing my religion. Posts: 5,716	I could understand being annoyed at Beckham's inclusion, but you can't honestly expect an England manager to drop Gerrard and Lampard? Who would you play instead? Carrick and Hargreaves no doubt. Gerrard and Lampard are two of the stand-out central midfielders in our league, and maybe in the world. They're the lynchpins of their successful clubs and to not include them in the national team is ridiculous. The reason England play shite football and go out of tournaments "early" all the time is because, shockingly, they're shite. Not because of players being "picked on reputation".

20th August 2008, 22:06	#109 (permalink)
BlahRules Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Posts: 2,156	The day we start winning it will be when we change game play into more direct and flair. Use players like Young and Agbonahal on the wings;