Howard Webb's Performance

cw1984

That was Holland's only genuine beef imo. It was a big error made worse by the fact it then led to the Spain's World Cup winning goal.

Other than that i thought he did well. He tried his best to keep it 11 v 11. Had it not been a final i honestly believe Holland would have been down to 9 by the hour mark.

MancFanFromManc

Thinking about him saying "lets hope tomorrow we're talking about a great game and not the ref"...... grin !

Personally I thought he did really well. The Dutch had a game plan to get at the Spanish and stop them playing - and who can blame em for that. It was ruthless, but it was also their best chance of winning

Being the man in charge of controlling that was tough in the extreme.

He did EXTREMELY well to keep it at 11 v 11. If he'd sent off a couple of Dutch players he'd have been correct but it would've ruined the game

How on Earth the Holland players could surround him for allowing that goal to stand was outrageous

I reckon, under the intense pressure, he did really really well !

Suedesi

What about the goal, Iniesta seemed offside in the buildup (when Torres passed it and didn't clear the defense)

cw1984

But he wasn't offside when the ball was played to him. The goal was fine.

Suedesi

The Spanish players were doing that every time that Iniesta or Xavi were drawing a foul. Five of them waving imaginary cards. Too fecking annoying.

Dutch reaction was understanding, it must be hard conceding on the 116th minute right after a inexplicable refereeing decision.

sincher

I agree. I think he had a good game.

Donkey's Ears

Yeah but he interfered with play on the first pass. I thought it looked offside.

But still the foul on Elia was obvious and it should have been a corner in the first place.

cw1984

He didnt interfere though, not on the current interpretation anyway.

He didnt touch it therefore he wasn't offside. When the pass did reach him it was played when he was onside. Goal stood, and rightly so.

204Red

So if your first point was that Webb had some latitude on the call then why did he bother to issue the card in the first place???... quite frankly Iniesta should have been given at least a yellow for that retaliatory foul in extra time. Which means that Webb could have easily sent him off for taking his shirt off after a goal. Yes I know its a FIFA rule, but NO-ONE would have criticized Webb had he taken no action against Iniesta after the goal.

The point I was making is that giving the Yellow card to Iniesta was an easy, cop out call, and it made tainted one of the few genuine moments of class in the whole world cup... at the same time Webb bottled several of the tough calls throughout the match... and thats what pisses me off is the way both Puyol and Heitinga basically did the same thing, but because Iniesta dove and Robben didn't, the Dutch had a man sent off... Webb fell for that, hook line and sinker... poor, poor call.

To then book Iniesta for taking off his shirt in a memorial to a dead former team mate is just a little man hiding behind the worst of excuses "I was only doing my job".

204Red

Frankly I'm tired about talking about the Referees

Its boring.

We should be taking about the football.

Godfather

Can't understand it that there actually are so many on here defending him.

I always was of the impression that he was a pretty good ref, but yesterday's performance and the performance of his line's men was shocking.

Very poor refereing.

Donkey's Ears

Maybe, I'm not sure.

But the main point is that Webb made two horrendous decisions in the run-up. First, he missed the corner which was blatant beyond belief. Second, he missed the foul on Elia which a) a foul by any standards and b) a foul given the fact he was blowing up for almost any contact. Watch the replay again (YouTube - Foul by Ramos on Elia in the build up to Spain's World Cup) and see how Ramos comes across and blocks him. It's blatant and Webb bottled it (partly because it was so close the goal I suspect).

I'd be livid if United conceded a goal in such an important game in those conditions particularly if a) we had a defender dismissed for a dive when the opposing defender stayed on the pitch because we didn't dive and b) not one gesture demanding cards or retaliation was punished.

The game was horrendous to referee but he did a bad job. He lost control by yielding too quickly to the Spanish complaints and by not sending de Jong off. Bad performance and it's not enough to say he did ok under the circumstances. He got the big job and did a bad job of it.

Moultz

No faults with him for me. I was a fan of the Oranje last night but the way they made the block on Elia such a big deal was beyond me. The cards flowed but so did the rash challenges. What else is he supposed to do?? The dutch went down in my opinion after last night. Found a very bitchy way to end the match. Reminded me of Chelsea. End of the day Robben should have finished it off for em and because he didnt hes left with 2 runners up medals for such prestigious prizes and deservedly so in both games. Better team won

Donkey's Ears

Are you honestly saying it wasn't a foul? How?

It's a legitimate complaint in my opinion particularly given the fact Webb was giving almost any contact as a foul by that stage. Spain broke from there (with Holland having pushed men forward) and scored.

SittingBull

Rubbish.. there are certain incidents that are worthy of a yellow card, ie according to the rulebook. However, some referees may choose to turn a blind eye due to common sense, and that doesn't mean he is a bad referee. If Iniesta was on a yellow, and gets a 2nd yellow for the celebration, that would be poor refereeing due to lack of common sense. Afterall, the player was exuberant in scoring a late winner. It's really that simple as a yellow card can be significant or insignifant depending on the occasion and timing.

As for the red card, i believe his legs were clipped, but the video proved inconclusive.

Avatar

Clutching at straws ??

Mockney

It was an incredibly minor obstruction...the kind of which is ignored in the PL every week...Considering how physical the Dutch were, they can hardly complain about that rather innocuous thing.

Those criticising him, tell me, how should he have controlled this game? Sent 2 dutch players off in the first half? Not book anyone and let it all flow whilst the Dutch kicked seven shades of shit out of the Spanish? Eh?...I'm lost as to how anyone is actually that bothered by Webbs performance, he was put in a situation harder than any ref in any WC final has ever been in, and dealt with it with common sense...He made a few mistakes, but when you set out your stall to be a dirty team, you can't complain about having a few innocuous decisions go against you...It's madness

Boss

It was a foul, Ramos clearly stepped across him to block his path, I don't know why there is arguments about this.

Ramos had one thing in his mind and it certainly wasn't to play the ball, for all the soft fouls Webb blew for, I'm just surprised he didn't blow for something which was more concrete and unfortunately a goal followed soon after.

Drifter

That was boring to.Hope that helps.

RK

He was fine apart from the corner decision. Even before the goal I was saying it was one of the worst decisions I've ever seen (I mean yes I was exaggerating but still, how do you miss two deflections??), but Holland had enough chance to defend it. Maybe.

Avatar

Spot on!!

Donkey's Ears

I'm not Dutch and how am I clutching at anything?

Donkey's Ears

Watch it again. It was deliberate obstruction. Ramos moves away from the ball and into his path and blocks him. On the edge of the area. Then they break away and score. Substitute Elia for Rooney, Ramos for Terry and Iniesta for Drogba and the caf would be in uproar. It was a foul, an obvious one, particularly so given the sort of stuff Webb was calling, and it led directly to the move that won the World Cup.

Boss

Of course it was a foul, since when is deliberately blocking a player's path not a foul with no intention to play the ball, Ramos is a very crafty player and he knew what he was doing.

Whether Webb had a good game or not, whether he should have sent every Dutch player off, that was a mistake and unfortunately a goal followed soon after.

I was very surprised when he didn't give it.

204Red

Exactly...that's my point... and what I am saying is that Webb is a poor referee because he lacks common sense...

It seems easy to make a call where the judgment element has been taken out of your hands. Its much harder to get the practical side of refereeing correct, but FFS this is a world cup final and he's supposed to be a top referee...and anyone on here can point to at least 10 bad calls in Extra time alone... By booking Iniesta after the goal, Webb proved he was good at following orders and poor at judging the game.

Vanrouge

In agreement with all the "Webb had a good game in very difficult circumstances" people.

But I just want to say that anyone slagging him for booking Iniesta after the goal doesn't understand one simple thing: of all yellow card offences, and it doesn't matter how ridiculous everyone finds this rule, the ref has absolutely no choice when someone removes their shirt during a goal celebration. If he fails to do it, he is sent to some refereeing purgatory and we never see him again*. Seriously, it doesn't have anything to do with what is written underneath the shirt -- it could say Mother Theresa made sweet nun love to Princess Diana or Howard Webb is God or bald Yorkshire policemen nosh on donkey cock, it doesn't matter: according to FIFA, it's a yellow card, end of.

*This part is probably not true.

B Cantona

I think the fall out has been ridiculous. How the fuck the Dutch have the nerve to complain about the officiating is beyond me. I think most sane reasonable people will understand just how tough that game was to referee, and that Webb made a pretty damn good fist of it in the circumstances

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Who'd be a referee, especially in this age with the systematic cheating, diving and in the Dutch case, thuggery occuring constantly throughout the game

Boss

Webb made a mistake before Spain scored, it's only human to be upset about it

B Cantona

It was a marginal decision

And if you're gunna go out and act like thugs, and the ref frankly go out of his way, maybe too far to keep a full compliment on the pitch, you're got a cheek to moan when a marginal obstruction call isn't given

The bigger mistake was the sending off, but then again he was conned, it's just another example of how refs need more help in the middle, and cheats should be far more harshly punished

Logan!

It's quite amazing how one refereeing performance can bring about such contrasting opinions. If this thread tells us anything it's that half of you know very little about football.

Boss

It really wasn't, Ramos stepped across him with no intention to play the ball, he knows what he's doing, he's a crafty player. Webb was blowing for fouls on Iniesta for alot less.

Yes it is hypocritical to complain, but when you lose the biggest game of your lives, from a goal after a foul wasn't given, I would like to see which nation wouldn't be upset. Like I said, they are only human, it's natural to be unhappy about what happened.

Mockney

Like a million defenders do every week when sheilding the ball out for a goal kick...it was no better or worse than that. Whether you think that should actually be obstruction or not is immaterial, they're often not given as - as Brad says - they are marginal.

Boss

I really don't see how you can compare the two, anyway I'm not interested, it was a foul, he knew he was fucked and cut him off with no intention to play the ball, typical Ramos style

Webb didn't give it, a goal came of it, I can understand why they are upset, that's all,whether they should have had 3 men left on th field, I understand why they are upset

B Cantona

I've not read the thread through, people are seriously criticising him for that?

Tools. He got it absolutely spot on, it's a clearcut case in the rule book, no interpretation needed. Criticise the rule sure, don't criticise the ref correctly implement it

That's where ref criticism becomes farcical. That and criticising a ref for making a right decision, because last week another ref gave a different decision in the same circumstances, and so there's 'inconsistency'

Absolute garbage!

The Dutch are making fools of themselves. All those so quick to criticise English fans after elimination might do well to realise there's plenty others who react the same if not worse

Mockney

Ok then

Vanrouge

Yeah, someone upthread called him "a small man" for it. Ridiculous.

Red Dreams

I thought the Dutch had the more clear cut chances. They should have taken them insted of blaimng the ref.

peterstorey

It was a professional foul to stop Elia from going into the area with the ball. Definite foul and probably a booking (though Ramos' first one was harsh).

Boss

You've said in the Premier League it's not a foul, this isn't the Premiership, this is the World Cup, just like the Champions League refs aren't as lenient as they apply the rules very strictly.

Rooney gets away with swearing at refs in the Prem but before the tournament started he was warned he wouldn't get away with it at the World Cup. It's a whole different stage and Webb can't be a Premiership ref at this world cup, he has to an International one.

What Ramos did was a foul, especially when you compare it to all the very soft fouls Webb was blowing earlier. There was no consistency with the decision and I was in disbelief as Navas charged up the field with the ball. Ramos intentionally blocked the players path. I don't see why it's a debate, he clearly blocked him off, he never tried to play the ball. Webb made a mistake.

I say I'm not interested because posters have annoyed you so much with their agendas during this World Cup that I just think you're siding with the Spanish just because of that. I don't even know if you believe what you're saying anymore. This is not about picking sides, as a neutral, was that not a foul?

I'm not saying Webb didn't do well under the circumstances, all I'm saying is that he made a mistake, and the Dutch who have lost their biggest match of their lives, as human beings have a right to be upset about that mistake.

Grinner

Yep and Robben then ran half the pitch to moan at Webb like a cunt. I thought he gave Robben plenty of protection and got most calls right. It's also my opinion that he was probably reminded that it wouldn't be good if players got sent off in a WC Final so held his red until he couldn't help but show it.

The Spanish were cunts with their protesting and card waving, but those aren't exactly bookable offences. I'd like it if they were, but till then what can you do?