International managers

Vidicious · 26th March 2008, 22:39

This got me thinking, if Capello fucks up with England, I have no doubt he will be perceived as a clown, crap manager etc by the English media and others. Which is wrong obviously, he has a very impressive CV. But i was just thinking, how can international management be a true reflection on the quality of a manager? Lets compare club manager to international manager.

Club manager works with his players every day of the week pretty much, has his game at the weekend with them and if his team aren't living up to expectations, fair enough, he takes criticism. He makes the transfers and has a lot of time to work with them on the training ground during the week.

International managers on the other hand, only have roughly a week before a match to gel players from different clubs together and has no say in transfers for example(obviously). In other words, I believe international football is 95% down to the pure quality and teamwork of players that the country has to offer. If the talent and teamwork isnt there, theres not much the manager can do in all honesty, as he has little time to work with them. So if Capello gets slated, and im sure he will, it wont be deserved in my opinion.

Im not picking on England and Capello in particular, I'm just using them as an example. If Capello does not deliver for England, many people will believe that hes crap, a clown, simply because he cant work miracles with players who just arent up to that standard.

So a manager can not really be judged on international management, in my opinion. Your thoughts?

ManRyan2 · 26th March 2008, 23:19

Yes.

Reasons why England isn't world class :

1. Lack of top class goalie.
2. Lack of top class wingers.
3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough.

Compared to the best countris out there, this isn't good enough. England isn't a top class team, and even Cappello or Ericsson can't change that. They will be blamed though.

FlawlessThaw · 26th March 2008, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManRyan2

Yes.

Reasons why England isn't world class :

1. Lack of top class goalie.
2. Lack of top class wingers.
3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough.

Compared to the best countris out there, this isn't good enough. England isn't a top class team, and even Cappello or Ericsson can't change that. They will be blamed though.

So just like Liverpool (if you change around a few positions).

Diabo_Sam · 26th March 2008, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlawlessThaw

So just like Liverpool (if you change around a few positions).

plus Rafa

RedKaos · 27th March 2008, 00:08

Reina is the best keeper in the world though.

ManRyan2 · 27th March 2008, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlawlessThaw

So just like Liverpool (if you change around a few positions).

good point, actually.

CockneyHammer · 27th March 2008, 01:52

Reasons why England isn't world class :

1. Lack of top class goalie.

Robert Green
David James
Scott Carson
Ben Foster

2. Lack of top class wingers.

Joe Cole, Stewart Downing David Beckham, David Bentley, Wright Phillips

3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough.

Owen
Rooney
Ashton
Defoe
Crouch
Johnson

We have the players we just don't have the manager who has the balls to shake the squad up enough to play them;

Ferguson · 27th March 2008, 04:48

Gus Hiddink is a brilliant international manager. He has worked wonders on an international level.

He was a good club manager as well, but I think he's proof that there is such a thing as a good international manager.

Sky1981 · 27th March 2008, 05:14

Bora Milutinovic springs to mind.

Qualifying in 5 World cup with 5 not-rated teams.

Dominant · 27th March 2008, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Reasons why England isn't world class :

1. Lack of top class goalie.

Robert Green
David James
Scott Carson
Ben Foster

2. Lack of top class wingers.

Joe Cole, Stewart Downing David Beckham, David Bentley, Wright Phillips

3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough.

Owen
Rooney
Ashton
Defoe
Crouch
Johnson

We have the players we just don't have the manager who has the balls to shake the squad up enough to play them;

I shall not mentioned about the goalies. non of them are really top class.

Downing is in no way a top class winger! he's frankly so average that if he's not a leftie, he wouldn't get within a mile from the england team. Beckham was never a winger. The only top class wingers England has is Joe cole. wright philips, aaron lennon and david bentley are very good potentials.

Vidicious · 27th March 2008, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Gus Hiddink is a brilliant international manager. He has worked wonders on an international level.

He was a good club manager as well, but I think he's proof that there is such a thing as a good international manager.

Yes but thats not what I'm saying, I'm saying if Capello is a failure with England the English media and deluded English fans will call him a crap manager because they believe they have the quality but not a manager to mould them into a good team, which is shit obviously, as England lack quality in areas and Capello has proven he is a good manager.

Bottom line is international management cannot really justify the qualities of a manager as they have alot less time with the players than club managers.

RUnited · 27th March 2008, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vidicious

Yes but thats not what I'm saying, I'm saying if Capello is a failure with England the English media and deluded English fans will call him a crap manager because they believe they have the quality but not a manager to mould them into a good team, which is shit obviously, as England lack quality in areas and Capello has proven he is a good manager.

Bottom line is international management cannot really justify the qualities of a manager as they have alot less time with the players than club managers.

when you put an unproven manager like McClaren at the helm and they fail, you can say the manager is bad.

But Capello will not get blamed by the foreign media. If england fails to qualify or progress in competitions, the english youth and league set up will be blamed.

i can already hear Platini and his moans about how england doesn't do enough to promote its own players.

the english medias are cnuts and will find their scapegoats, so capello will probably get the tomatoes thrown at him anyway at some point, so i wouldn't take their comments too seriously.

Bilbo · 27th March 2008, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vidicious

This got me thinking, if Capello fucks up with England, I have no doubt he will be perceived as a clown, crap manager etc by the English media and others. Which is wrong obviously, he has a very impressive CV. But i was just thinking, how can international management be a true reflection on the quality of a manager? Lets compare club manager to international manager.

Club manager works with his players every day of the week pretty much, has his game at the weekend with them and if his team aren't living up to expectations, fair enough, he takes criticism. He makes the transfers and has a lot of time to work with them on the training ground during the week.

International managers on the other hand, only have roughly a week before a match to gel players from different clubs together and has no say in transfers for example(obviously). In other words, I believe international football is 95% down to the pure quality and teamwork of players that the country has to offer. If the talent and teamwork isnt there, theres not much the manager can do in all honesty, as he has little time to work with them. So if Capello gets slated, and im sure he will, it wont be deserved in my opinion.

Im not picking on England and Capello in particular, I'm just using them as an example. If Capello does not deliver for England, many people will believe that hes crap, a clown, simply because he cant work miracles with players who just arent up to that standard.

So a manager can not really be judged on international management, in my opinion. Your thoughts?

No, I don't think Int'l management is at all comparable with club. You just don't get enough time with the players.

Bilbo · 27th March 2008, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Gus Hiddink is a brilliant international manager. He has worked wonders on an international level.

He was a good club manager as well, but I think he's proof that there is such a thing as a good international manager.

I'm not so sure about that. If a very good coach takes charge of an inexperienced football nation, such as Korea, there is huge scope for him to make a dramatic improvement. With a leading country, you have maybe 10-15% max to gain from the players.

Hiddink performed wonders with Korea, but in a home world cup. I cant imagine that they would have reached a semi-final in Europe. With Russia, he was fortunate to qualify for the Euros.

Not a slant on Hiddink at all, but the best Int'l teams are the ones with the best players, not the best coach IMO.

Sonny1972 · 27th March 2008, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

I'm not so sure about that. If a very good coach takes charge of an inexperienced football nation, such as Korea, there is huge scope for him to make a dramatic improvement. With a leading country, you have maybe 10-15% max to gain from the players.

Hiddink performed wonders with Korea, but in a home world cup. I cant imagine that they would have reached a semi-final in Europe. With Russia, he was fortunate to qualify for the Euros.

Not a slant on Hiddink at all, but the best Int'l teams are the ones with the best players, not the best coach IMO.

Forgotten how he played with Holland in 1998 , this was the best Dutch team since 1974!!

DiaboliQue · 27th March 2008, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

I'm not so sure about that. If a very good coach takes charge of an inexperienced football nation, such as Korea, there is huge scope for him to make a dramatic improvement. With a leading country, you have maybe 10-15% max to gain from the players.

Hiddink performed wonders with Korea, but in a home world cup. I cant imagine that they would have reached a semi-final in Europe. With Russia, he was fortunate to qualify for the Euros.

Not a slant on Hiddink at all, but the best Int'l teams are the ones with the best players, not the best coach IMO.

So Greece had the best players in Euro 2004?

ManRyan2 · 27th March 2008, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Reasons why England isn't world class :

1. Lack of top class goalie.

Robert Green
David James
Scott Carson
Ben Foster

2. Lack of top class wingers.

Joe Cole, Stewart Downing David Beckham, David Bentley, Wright Phillips

3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough.

Owen
Rooney
Ashton
Defoe
Crouch
Johnson

We have the players we just don't have the manager who has the balls to shake the squad up enough to play them;

I disagree, England has no strength in depth.
GK : Foster might be someone, but he isn't there yet.
wingers :Cole is good, but not an outright winger, making your play narrow. You've got no REAL wingers if you should need it.
Striker : Rooney is worldclass. Owen is sometimes, too.

Many other teams are much more complete than this, and have more strength in depth.

26th March 2008, 22:39	#1 (permalink)
Vidicious Flop Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Desailly is a God. Posts: 1,564	International managers This got me thinking, if Capello fucks up with England, I have no doubt he will be perceived as a clown, crap manager etc by the English media and others. Which is wrong obviously, he has a very impressive CV. But i was just thinking, how can international management be a true reflection on the quality of a manager? Lets compare club manager to international manager. Club manager works with his players every day of the week pretty much, has his game at the weekend with them and if his team aren't living up to expectations, fair enough, he takes criticism. He makes the transfers and has a lot of time to work with them on the training ground during the week. International managers on the other hand, only have roughly a week before a match to gel players from different clubs together and has no say in transfers for example(obviously). In other words, I believe international football is 95% down to the pure quality and teamwork of players that the country has to offer. If the talent and teamwork isnt there, theres not much the manager can do in all honesty, as he has little time to work with them. So if Capello gets slated, and im sure he will, it wont be deserved in my opinion. Im not picking on England and Capello in particular, I'm just using them as an example. If Capello does not deliver for England, many people will believe that hes crap, a clown, simply because he cant work miracles with players who just arent up to that standard. So a manager can not really be judged on international management, in my opinion. Your thoughts?

26th March 2008, 23:19	#2 (permalink)
ManRyan2 Trainee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 95	Yes. Reasons why England isn't world class : 1. Lack of top class goalie. 2. Lack of top class wingers. 3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough. Compared to the best countris out there, this isn't good enough. England isn't a top class team, and even Cappello or Ericsson can't change that. They will be blamed though.

27th March 2008, 00:08	#5 (permalink)
RedKaos Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tentacles in my mouthLOL Posts: 3,596	Reina is the best keeper in the world though.

27th March 2008, 01:52	#7 (permalink)
CockneyHammer Or just Cock for short Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hiding with the fortunes Posts: 4,224	Reasons why England isn't world class : 1. Lack of top class goalie. Robert Green David James Scott Carson Ben Foster 2. Lack of top class wingers. Joe Cole, Stewart Downing David Beckham, David Bentley, Wright Phillips 3. Lack of top class strikers. One isn't enough. Owen Rooney Ashton Defoe Crouch Johnson We have the players we just don't have the manager who has the balls to shake the squad up enough to play them;

27th March 2008, 04:48	#8 (permalink)
Ferguson Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 1,739	Gus Hiddink is a brilliant international manager. He has worked wonders on an international level. He was a good club manager as well, but I think he's proof that there is such a thing as a good international manager.

27th March 2008, 05:14	#9 (permalink)
Sky1981 Fending Off the Urge Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The reminiscence of long lost glory from the past Posts: 2,843	Bora Milutinovic springs to mind. Qualifying in 5 World cup with 5 not-rated teams.