Ireland & Trapattoni discussion

Name Changed

I would just like to make a thread to discuss Giovanni Trapattoni and his decisions in relation to the Irish team.

I know, and everyone knows, that he has done a fairly good job. In the last qualifying group, we went through it without defeat, although we didn't win too many either!

In the current group that we are in, I think it is there for the taking. Russia are a relatively weak team compared to some of the other first seeds. Slovakia are no great shakes either. The group is definitely there to be won and we have started it with two wins.

I think there is a big problem though. I think his stubbornness will end up costing us. Over the last few years, there has been a huge debate about Andy Reid. There was no reason for him not to be picked in the squad and the reason was over some petty argument between the two of them over a guitar. Ridiculous, childish stuff.

This is happening all over again with James McCarthy. McCarthy is the only Irish midfielder who is currently getting him game in the Premier League (apart from Rory Delap but he's not in the squad either). Gibson can't get a look in at United. Whelan can't get a game at Stoke. Andrews and Fahey are injured and if fit are not automatic starters for their clubs. McGeady is playing in Russia. Lawrence is playing near the bottom of the Championship. Keith Treacy is playing in the Premier League.

Anyway, in this current squad for the Russia and Slovakia games, Fahey, Treacy and Duff have pulled out of the squad through injury. James McCarthy was not called up in replacement. When Trapattoni was questioned on this, he had no answer but to say that he watched McCarthy on Saturday and that he was very good. He dismissed any other questions.

The only think that makes sense is that he is still pissed off that McCarthy did not turn up for the Ireland training setup thing at the start of the Summer. Trap was obviously annoyed at this and McCarthy has not been picked since.

Trap has previously said that he does not know what McCarthy's best position is because Martinez plays him on the left, on the right and in the centre. Wouldn't a player like that be perfect for the squad so? With all these players injured, surely a versatile player like McCarthy would be invaluable to the squad?

He is the only Irish midfielder getting his game at the moment in the PL bar Delap. He is also a better midfielder than the rest. He can play right across the midfield and up front. Trap is doing a good job but his petty grudges that he seems to be holding will eventually cost us dearly, in my opinion.

Trapattoni is not having too many questions asked by the media at the moment because the results have been ok. But as soon as a bad one happens, questions are going to be asked in relation to his squad selection. Having average Championship players in the squad over good Premier League players makes no sense. Why would a player like Keith Treacy be in the squad and James McCarthy not? Paul Green? Why is he even considered?

Andy Reid? James McCarthy? Where does it stop? If Robbie Keane has a disagreement with him, is he going to be dropped from future squads?

We all know Trapattoni doesn't like change and would pick the same XI if he could regardless of club or even international form. But surely he should be picking the best players?

davisjw

He's biding his time until he can bring back the Ireland.

Pat_Mustard

It's hard to fathom how McCarthy can't get a game for us.

Randall Flagg

We are a disaster waiting to happen. Russia even though not half the team they were 3 or so years ago will swamp us in midfield. Its very frustrating because we have/had a great chance for our 1st (and only 2nd ever) Euros in over 20 years.

The James McCarthy thing is baffling as is Andy Reid. We are crying out for creativity

Snow

Is Andy Reid even fully fit? I never see him play more than 10 minutes each game for Sunderland and I've seen them 4 times this season.

Obviously there's more to the McCarthy deal or he'd been picked. Something about his person most likely.

RedLars

I am interested in hearing more about the guitar incident. Is Trapattoni by any chance a Les Paul man and Andy Reid a Strat guy? If so, it is clearly valid reason to keep him out of the squad, until he changes his mind and apologises at least.

lem8sh

His stubborness will definitely cost us. The exclusion of Andy Reid last season when he was playing the best stuff of his career was baffling. If I was McCarthy right now I'd be wondering if I should have picked the Scots instead.Our centre midfield is diabolical and despite the fact that Gibson isn't playing much if Trap thinks he will offer us less than Paul fecking Green he's off his rocker.

The other thing with Trap that annoys me is his persistence with picking ageing first teamers like Kilbane in every fucking friendly, games when we should be coaxing in our future players especially players like McCarthy and Coleman who have the ability to be very good players for us.

Ringo 07

Russia are licking their chops at the thought of facing us with Paul Green in midfield and Kevin Kilbane playing too!At least Pavluchenco is not playing.
McCarthy is not in the team as he has not matured defensively enough to play that role for us so I don't know why people can not see that. His time will come. Our only alternative to Paul Green is Gibson who is way off the pace now and Fahey who has no chance to play as he is not getting his game for Birmingham. John O´Shea could play midfield too but that would mean McShane would be playing in defense and that is scary!

So Eire fans have to stop blaming Trap for the fact that we simply do not have the players available to select a world class squad. And to that bloke who says Andy Reid should play instead in midfield? Seriously that is insanity as he is not even getting his game for Sunderland and couldnt defend to save himself anyways.

Pat_Mustard

That only serves to make it more illogical that a player as promising and versatile as McCarthy can't get a place in the squad if not the team. That said, its very difficult to argue with the results Trap has got with a mediocre squad.

el eric

As Much as I'd like to see Reid and or McCarthy in the side I can see what Traps doing. He set up a very specific system where everyone knows their role. 4-4-2 with 2 battlers in the middle of the park, 2 widemen who generally chase back and keane and Doyle up front. It makes us hard to beat but A) we dont win a lot of games B) we're shite to watch.

The system wouldnt work as well with McCarthy/Gibson in the middle of the park and we'd lose a lot more games I reckon, saying that against Andorra at home surely he could have played on of them. I think we have a great chance of getting out of the group, 3 points on Friday would be massive. A lot depends on Kevin Doyle ( and to a lesser extent Keane ) and Richie Dunne staying fit for the big games, with out them we'd really struggle.

PeterStorey made the point recently that we should play 4-5-1 away from home, if that was the case I could imagine McCarthy of Gibson getting a game but barring an Injury to one of the front 2 I cant see it happening

Broyphs

He's been really lucky in his time with us. Yes, he's made us more solid so that's a positive, but eventually when you keep setting up teams whose sole goal is to not lose then you will eventually get caught out.

We may not have a world class squad - or even a world class outfield player - but we have good players who are doing jobs in the PL and he's ignoring them. Andy Reid should be in the squad if for no other reason than to offer another option. Westwood should be playing in the friendlies so, when the inevitable happens and Given picks up an injury that he'snot being thrown in completely unaware of how to handle international football. I'd see if we can get Lonergan across too.

Kilbane's a busted flush, though he tries his heart out and Paul Green has no business playing international football. Ditto Cillian Sheridan. Personally I'd start with Coleman from here on in and take a chance on the lad, moving O'Shea to LB where he's still confortable. Dunne and Ledger are a decent partnership in the middle. I'd go with one of Andrews or Whelan alongside Reid, but since that's not realistic I'd start Gibson instead. McCarthy should be in the mix too. The strikers take care of themselves but we have no quality backup. When he's fit I'd go with Folan on the bench as he's a different option and Walters at Stoke looks handy, but then we're down to one of Hunt, Long or Stokes, none of which I'm convinced by.

As much as I hate to say it, we need to be exploiting the granny rule. If the names being rumoured are true then Kevin Nolan and Jamie O'Hara would be a good start. Ciaran Clark at Villa is eligible too, I believe and I think we're trying to get Ephraim who is supposed to be a decent player and Connolly a centre-half, both from QPR though I don't know much about him. Supposedly Darren Ambrose, Gary O'Neil and Kyle Naughton are eligible. They'd all make the squad if they wanted to, I'd have thought.

Cina

I just want Seamus Coleman in for Paul Mc Shane at right back. He's such a disaster.

el eric

Paul McShane hasnt being playing Right Back, O Shea has

Cina

Really? I thought O Shea and Dunne were pretty much solidified in the centre.

Mister Jeebus

Dunne and St. Ledger have been the first choice centre back pairing for well over a year now. McShane had been getting games at right back while O'Shea was out injured.

Viper KGB

McCarthy and Coleman are baffling to me, is he just being very Italian and sticking with his old lads?

moyses

Yep, I'd have Gibson, McCarthy and Coleman much higher up the pecking order than Trap has them. We are more solid than under the previous management team but are set up to add tactical lilmitations to our technical limits rather than tactics being used to express our full potential. That way, we'd win and almost certainly lose more games. It would possibly even out in terms of points but would be wholly better to watch.

Mister Jeebus

Trap is simply being as highly conservative in his approach as he's been for decades. Frankly I'd say he looked at our squad and said these lads are f*ckin useless, the only way I'll get anywhere with them is if I make us hard to beat and hopefully scrape a win or two. Reid or McCarthy don't fit into that system. As for Coleman, Trap isn't a risk taker, and playing a young inexperienced player is a risk. It might pay out because the incumbent needs replacing, but at least he knows what he's getting with him.

Mick1991

His approach has the trophies to prove it works. Believe me I know how frustrating it is to watch Ireland these days but I think we have to stick it out really because he simply isn't going to change a philosophy that he has had for decades.

My one gripe with the man is that he seems to play the favourites games with players, but playing McGeady when he constantly has one of 'those' days is infuriating as hell when you have Fahey on the bench and McCarthy not even making the squad.

Also playing two donkeys in midfield is painful to watch, constantly breaking down. But he is getting the results even if it is painful viewing.

Name Changed

Trapattoni says himself that McCarthy can play right across the midfield. Trap has a tendency to take McGeady off in most matches. Who is he going to put on the left wing for McGeady against Russia and Slovakia? He'd usually throw a centre midfielder, like Fahey, out there. Now he has none. Gibson will probably end up on the left wing. There is no reason why or how McCarthy would weaken that squad. Quite the opposite.

The point of the matter is that Trap is picking players like Green and McShane when there are better players to choose from. Nobody is saying Trap has a world class squad to choose from. But he has better players to choose than he does but he doesn't like changing one single thing, it is ridiculous. Coleman, Kelly and even Finnan are better options than McShane on the right. Gibson, Fahey, McCarthy and Meyler are better options than Green. He has other PL players who he won't consider, such as Jonathan Walters. Why is Jonathan Walters not in the squad, when Cillian Sheridan is? Sheridan is playing in Bulgaria for fuck sake, and he is absolutely shite. Walters is a Premier League player.

Also, re Andy Reid. I'm not saying Andy Reid should be in the squad now, as he is not in form. But previously, when he was fit and in form, there was absolutely no reason why he was not included in the squad. Fair enough, Trap plays a rigid 4-4-2. But what happens when we go behind? Surely having a player on the bench who could actually pass a ball would be a good thing?

Name Changed

Completely agree.

Red Hand Devil

I love Trap & for what he's done for our team, I only hope we dont go fucking things up again by playing the wrong players. We should have won more games in the World Cup Qualifying than we did & we wouldnt have been in a play-off situation.

Fuck knows why he wont pick McCarthy, it rings of the Andy Reid saga & thats sickening. How many games could we have done with some creativity last time round. In tight games you need something different & we dont fucking have that in mid-field for play-making!

He better not play yer man Green or he's losing the fucking plot. I find it a disgrace that a more established player such as Gibson wasnt playing. It was the perfect opportunity for Gibson to become more accustomed to playing for Irelands starting 11, yet Trap played Green just because he's playing regularly, regardless of the fact he's completely out of his depth against lesser opposition, nevermind the likes of Russia.
What also pisses me off, is that Trap has made the point of players playing regularly for their club or they wont make the team or even the squad, yet he's making an exception for Given - common fucking sense i know, because Given is World Class, but Gibson is by far the better player than Green & if the rumours are correct he harboured a grudge because of Gibsons Trap's "having a laugh" remark, then thats rediculous. Gibson (United fan) is entitled to say what he said - who in their right mind would want to leave United to become a better player - very few do & achieve that. Forlan is one of that few!

I wish Andrews was fit, then we wouldnt be having the predicament. He'd be a starter. Now we all have to wait with nerves to see his selection in the hope he plays the best team available

C'MON IRELAND

peterstorey

Trap's like Cap - another past-it Italian manager.

Broyphs

One of my main issues with him is the fact that when he leaves he'll have brought through very few young players. The likelihood is that we probably won't qualify for the Euros and we'll have a few players who retire, which will leave us with a lot of untested young players who should have been exposed to international football much sooner.

An awful lot of the players he's brought through are relatively seasoned pros in their mid-twenties and they aren't going to solve our problems going forward.

I realise there are probably people laughing at us and thinking we have ideas above out station but the current management are building a team for the short term and the next man in - probably Tardelli, so more of the same - will be stuck with players who have been proven not to be good enough and kids who haven't been afforded that opportunity.

Red Hand Devil

I wouldnt agree with that Pete, but he does annoy / confuse us sometimes with his selections. He seems quite stubborn on how he see's his team playing - which is fair enough, but for me - he should be playing Gibson if Andrews isnt fit, and Andrews isnt fit!

We've a great chance to beat the Thrussians tomorrow nite, but if thats not achieved because of being overrun in mid-field due to mis-selection - then that will do our heads in

Bottom-line is - Green shouldnt play instead of Gibson. In fact, Green shouldnt be in the squad imo!

Wonder Pigeon

In terms of international football, he had a much better pool of players to work with when he managed Italy and he wasn't up to much then, especially at Euro 2004. He was too conservative with his tactics and reluctant to try new players. Sound familiar?

Decotron

What your basis for this? Its hardly the lack of trophies now is it

Decotron

Ive a feeling Gibson will get his first start in a proper match against Russia. Andrews only made his reserve come back last week.

Id love to see a race between Whelan Gibson and Green

Red Hand Devil

You shouldnt worry too much the young lads coming through man, now that we've got rid of that fuckwit Givens from the shambles of an U-21 set-up, the players under Noel Kings guidence will flourish & will not have to endure endless shite in his inspirational team talks / half-times speaches about his hat-rick he scored against Thrussia in 1974.

Noel King is a good coach & man-manager. He's only had the U-21's for one game & they won 5-0 (I think) & has a wealth of coaching experience - even being part of Irelands 1990 World Cup backroom staff. Also, look what he did with the Ladies U-17 team at the World Cup. I believe the future is bright under his "stewardship".

As regard for the fuckwit that is Givens, this greatly concerns me with sleepless nights:

"He will take up a new position overseeing the FAI's UK based scouting network, continuing to work closely with the underage and senior international set up through High Performance Director, Wim Koevermans and senior manager, Giovanni Trapattoni..." RT Sport: Don Givens steps down as U-21 manager

They should have put that cunt down like a dying horse instead of giving him another job & a cushty one at that. He ruined under-21 football for 10 years. Fucking arrogant useless fuckhead

A proper face for smacking:

Red Hand Devil

An ball-playing ethnic minority mid-fielder Tron?

davisjw

But has he lately? And on an international stage with a hundred different playing styles? I think his rigid 4-4-2 "battler" methodology is past it. Teams need to be fluid in how they play in order to compete against teams from other countries/continents.

Look at Brazil v. US in the Confed Cup final - US up 2-0 so Brazil make a change to tactics and the formation on the fly and came back 3-2.

The bus is passing Italian rigid tactics pretty fast.

Mick1991

Don 'Results don't matter' Givens, Proper prat.

Mick1991

Well if you were basing that on Capello then you would be right but they only got the apprentice we got the master.

Obviously it is hard to tell from qualifying games but I don't think people have too many problems with the formation, Keane and Doyle work well together and it would be a shame to drop one of them.

Red Hand Devil

=



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It seems its just not us that hate that prick Givens:

You Boys in Green Forum: Don Givens Now on Newstalk

""jobs for the lads" is whats going on, the chap couldnt manage a good sh*te!"

"He's a f**king sh*te bag.."



He did an interview on Newstalk & he talked about a young footballer who decided he didnt want to play football anymore & this is what one poster on the above forum who heard it, describe Givens mouthing off:

"Basically he was a failure as a person and he had thrown his life away in giving up the game.

Would never be happy, would always regret it, how many people would die for this opportunity, he was denying people who he had been chosen ahead of previously, letting down his club and other people who had invested time and effort in him etc etc.

I could partially understand it if Supple had appeared a complete w**ker. However in all the press I heard with him he appeared a balanced a likeable individual who had decided he didn't want to play football..."

Red Hand Devil

Given

O’Shea Dunne St Ledger Kilbane

Lawrence Green Whelan McGeady


Doyle Keane



You Boys in Green Forum: Team announced

Broyphs

Shane Supple had issues outside of wanting to play football or not. That much is indisputable from what I know.

But it doesn't surprise me to see him have a dig like that. Class was never one of his strong points.

Ringo 07

Jonathon Walters from what I have seen plays on the right or up front. We seem to be ok in those postions now and Trap will only pick players that he has seen in a friendly first and Walters is dead set to play in our upcoming friendly vs Norway so his time will come. I agree with you that Gibson, Fahey, McCarthy and Meyler are way better than Green but Gibson and McCarthy dont have the defensive side in this moment that Trap needs to grind out a result. Fahey is not getting his game and Meyler who was my great hope will do well to get back to the player he was when his long term injury heals up.

I think Green is not as bad as he played in the last game. He shat himself and had a nightmare in the last game but got better in the second half. He has showed a lot of potential in some friendlies he played for us and I wouldnt be surprised if he puts in a good game tomorrow now that he is more settled in the team. Fingers crossed! But yes I would prefer to see Gibson leave United to get first team football so that he can become a massive player for us ASAP.
There are plenty of solid international teams that have players playing in lesser leagues such as the Scandanavian countries! Norway and Sweden really are the nations we have to aspire to follow from getting success with limited players doing their job right!

Decotron

Fucks sake Trap

Name Changed

I don't agree with you on this bit. The fact that Cillian Sheridan is even in the squad shows me that we are lacking up front. Sheridan couldn't get a look in at Celtic, went to Plymouth on loan and couldn't even get a game there, now he's playing in Bulgaria. To be fair to Walters, he is getting his game up top for a PL side and hasn't got even a sniff of a call up. Who's the other on the bench? Shane Long I suppose? Reading's super sub? Surely players who are playing week in week out in the top league should be at least looked at?

As I said before, Trap wouldn't change one single player in the squad if he didn't have to, regardless of what players are actually playing well or even playing at all.

Viper KGB

Never new Walters was Irish, from what I seen he should definitely be in the squad.

I think Trap is so stubborn that if he had a talent like Wilshere in the squad he still wouldn't get in