John Terry | Episode 22: John is banned for Racism

Suedesi

That's irrelevant and in the past now. The focus needs to be Euro 2012. Any names I give you will be laughed out of court. The point is Capello needs to build his own team and defensive system. Smalling, Shawcross, may be some of the names in contention, but Capello clearly needs players that fit the system. The system is more important than names. After all Germany shipped 4 past England with Klose, Podolski and Muller... not great names by any stretch of the imagination.

B Cantona

To get in the squad you daft git

Your problem with this topic is an inability to look beyond teams picked on paper. Terry negated any personal contribution he may have made on the pitch, with the disruption he caused to team spirit off it. Picking an arguably 'lesser' player might actually have done wonders for the England side. Equally it might have done just as badly as it did

Regardless, we should have fucked Terry off, and hopefully we still do

As for the Brown issue, I'd have played him ahead of Johnson, but with the Ferdinand injury, I'd probably have played him centre half. Versatility, another thing Capello sacrificed now picking him

BaldwinLegend

It's not irrelevant- the World Cup has only just ended and qualifying begins in a couple of months for Euro 2012. If no one can name me a serious alternative for last month, why should I believe there are suddenly serious alternatives to Terry for the imminent Euro 2012 games?

BaldwinLegend

You're talking with the benefit of hindsight. No one in their right mind would have suggested Brown should play ahead of Terry in SA at CB in the run up to the WC - Brown had barely played at all for United in the run up!

I do get the idea of lesser players playing better as teammates but Brown and Upson as a defensive pairing for England?

By the way, where do people get their facts from regarding Terry causing disruption in the squad in SA? It's just pure speculation isn't it? Find me one quote...

I'll be amazed if Terry is dropped from the next England squad- I fully expect to see him in it.

Rood

Did you miss his press conference during the World Cup?
Plus the small matter of shagging his team mates' missus !

English CB options:
Rio
King
Upson
Dawson
Jagielka
Lescott
Brown
Smalling
Woodgate
Turner
Cahill

sglowrider

Ultimately, Fabio has to inject some new blood into the squad. Who ever he brings in will need to get some international experience or bring others who will have CL exposure. The squad is stale and needs motivation though new blood.

JT has been in fast decline & found out for the past two or more years now. He's slower but makes up for it by being "committed" and throwing his body around ala Tevez. He certainly thinks he should be the captain of England and behaves like he does in Chelski... like he owns the place. The Raul comparison is very appropriate.

Fabio needs to show the players that he is the boss by dropping some big names and JT's a big name but certainly isnt a big loss.

adexkola

I fail to see how any of these players in defense at the time would have improved England's defense

On Terry, he had a bad season. That does not wipe out the previous years he has been a rock at the back for Chelsea and England. At most, Capello should experiment with the younger players in defense to blood them in, and I would be delighted if Smalling got a chance. But axe Terry from the squad based on poor form? Why stop there? Axe Rio, and Carrick while you're at it

BaldwinLegend

I did see the press conference- looked like a player trying to inject some purpose and passion into the others and then the press sensationalised it.

Show me a quote from an actual player saying that that press conference 'ruined' the team atmosphere...

Are you seriously suggesting those on that list as an immediate improvement on Terry either in SA or the next England games? King is a crock, Woodgate is rumoured to be close to retirement, Smalling has played a handful of games for Fulham and may struggle to get games for United, Lescott is, well...

I'm just pointing out to all those queuing up to put the boot into Terry- there's no ready made replacement yet. I've a feeling he'll still be amongst the first names on Capello's teamsheet in the upcoming qualifiers...

cesc's_mullet

It's not as if there isn't a plethora of quality English CB's (at a decent age 23-28) running around in the League at the moment that could potentially step into the side... It's definitely time for Capello to look at the future.

Freak

I don't think the issue is axing Terry based on poor form. It's more about him being a disruptive influence and going against Capello.

Rood

I am talking about alternate options to Terry for 2012 Euro qualifying and beyond - I am not saying these should have gone ahead of him to the WC.
And it is nothing to do with form - it is to do with him being an epic cnut who destabilised the whole squad.


You will not see any quotes from players because, apart from Terry, none of the other players are so thick as to air private disagreements in public. There were quotes from Lampard distancing the rest of the squad from Terry's comments and if you read between the lines it is pretty obvious what was going on behind the scenes.

You also seem to ignore the Bridge incident - during qualifying this team looked strong and things were good - it all started going wrong after that.

The list just shows that there are plenty of options for replacing Terry. This is not a question of ability as Terry is still a top player (albeit past his peak) - it is more about team spirit which the squad was clearly lacking out in SA.

MadDogg

That's true. Dawson was perhaps the best centre back in the comp last season. You can understand why Rio and Terry were still picked ahead of him, but he really should've been next on the list.

antihenry

I'd love for Terry to end his England career.

John has put his body on the line and has played hurt so many times, he needs to rest more and more as he gets older. As long as JT performs well for Chelsea it's fine with me. It will certainly be a blow to his enormous ego to be axed, but he'll get over it eventually. Plus, in that case he won't be a convenient scapegoat for the national team failures anymore.

What I don't get about English supporters is that desire to get rid of the "old guard" as soon as possible and inject the "fresh blood" immediately. I may have been looking at the wrong players but where's that world class young English talent that is supposedly ready to replace the likes of Terry,Lampard,Gerrard etc and rejuvenate the national team?

sammsky1

Terry was badly shown up in the world cup on several occasions. Likewise, his last season for Chavski was certainly not his best. He is showing the signs of fading.

Likewise, his presence in the squad causes issues both for the manager as well as other players. A manager should not have to assert himself in the middle of a world cup by telling one of his players that 'he has made a big mistake'. Its not on. Too many people intensly dislike Terry and for too many different reasons.

There may not be another defender quite as good as Terry who is available right now, but the process of identifying and blooding in new players has to start now. Its time to start afresh. Terry must go.

Sparky_Hughes

Well it bloody should. As long as England keep selecting the same tired old shite regardless of form they will keep loosing. Sol campell was a rock for Le Arse and England why not give him a place? Bobby Moore was a rock for years, dig him up and stick him in the side...........

Sparky_Hughes

And if you think he does this for any other reason than his own FUCKING HUGE EGO you are misguided. e simply can not bear the thought Chelsea or England can win without his underclass immoral scum sucking self.

Suedesi

Well put sir.

eric le roi

Do you think Wes Brown is a worse defender than Terry?
Like you say, if Capello was willing to bring King (perma-crocked), Carragher () and Barry (semi-injured), why on earth was Wesley not considered? Crazy.

ERICSAGOD

Agreed!

sammsky1

I dont think people feel like this about all of the 'old guard'. Its just John Terry. No-one likes him anymore.

Lets start the process of renewal by getting rid of him. It will be like losing a cancerous leech. Once he is gone, Capello can start building afresh.

adexkola

I doubt an affair between a team mate and a former teammate's ex would be destabilizing to England's chances, not that they had any going into the World cup. They are professionals for goodness sake, they are playing for the ultimate prize in football, the World Cup. If they can't put personal grievances behind and play as a unit...

If you think that Terry's comments destabilized the team, instead of Capello's erratic team selection, stars' inability to perform against mediocre opposition, then I think you read too much into his comments. He aired what everyone was thinking at the time.

Were England not playing like shit before Terry said what he said to the media? Were they not in shambles already?

Rood

I think you have missed the point. It is completely irrelevant whether what Terry said is right or not - no good can ever come from criticising the manager live on TV in the middle of the WC.

Anyway if you seriously think what Terry said at press conf and the Bridge stuff is ok then there is not much point in continuing the discussion - as far as I am concerned both actions were completely out of order and the sooner he goes the better.

Red Norse

Well posted. There are several alternatives to partner Rio (when fit), give Cahill/Dawson/Jagielka (if ever fit) or any other similarly talented CB the chance during the qualification.

Ole'sbodyguard

I think Capello's got a massive problem with the centre backs when it comes for Euro 12 qualification. England have gone from having two of the best centre backs around with players like Campbell, King, Carragher in reserve with the luxury of seeing if Woodgate would one day get over his injury problems to the current crop of players, which in all honesty is not to good.

Whether you think Terry's a cnut or not, he is the best centre back Capello has at his disposal and at 30 has enough years ahead of him to marshall a defence around. Rio's been one of the best centre backs in Europe for the last decade but the truth is, injury has dogged him for the last two years and I got reservations about United being able to base a defence around him, let alone the national side. He will be 34 at Euro 2012 and he's not played regularly for the last 18 months. He's been injured for so long we have not even been able to see him get of games to assess how much he has lost due to the injuries. Thankfully for United we have Vidic and Evans with some quality players in reserve. England do not have the same luxury.

When you look down the list of alternatives, the list is not too extensive. The likes of Upson and Lescott are not good enough for the national squad let alone starting. King is only fit enough to start one game a week and cannot train properly and the fact that people are pointing towards uncapped mid table players like Turner, Shawcross and Cahill as possible alternatives
shows how dire the state is. Most managers would have Terry, disruptive Press Conference and all, over these players and try to build bridges in the side because he is a much better player than all of them.

Dawson's the only one who I reckon is worth a run in the side based on his club form of the last 12 months and I don't hold much faith he is cut out for the step up to international football and the CL regularly.

SO if I was Capello I would be very hesitant about getting shut of Terry, who albeit is past his best, is still likely to be a good centre back when the Euro's roll around. In fact, unless someone steps up from nowhere I'd be hoping Rio can pull together a couple of years of good form, because two years down the line, I'd still have them as England's best available pairing.

It's that bad I'm afraid, this World cup should have been the one for Rio an Terry to have been together at something not far of their best, but it's not worked out like that.

Red Norse

The least of England's problem is in the CB position, I don't know why you English consistently focus on that. You need a coherent central midfield and you haven't had that in ages.

Myxomatosis

Smalling is not an 'option' for England at centre back. He's not even a starter for a Premier League team.

Myxomatosis

Wes Brown is a far, far worse defender than John Terry.

Red Norse

Myxomatosis

Please continue to think that our backup utility defenders are better than a player who has won the following.

* PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05
* FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006,
* FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
* UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009
* UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
* Chelsea Player of the Year: 2001, 2006

Red Norse

[QUOTE=Myxomatosis;8347873]Please continue to think that our backup utility defenders are better than a player who has won the following.

Far, far out man. Plastic accolades or not. There's not much between them, Terry is much more vocal and obviously better in the air, but his positioning is pish and his pace is shite and that has always been his weaknesses. Brown is also subject to poor positioning, but his tackling is way better, both equally tough in the challenge and Brown has (had) pace.

Brown's career has been fucked by injuries, but during his few and far between injury free spells he's just as good a defender as Terry. Due to his injuries he could never be relied on and as such could never be a certain starter for SAF. Brown certainly has more talent than Terry, even if he he only has proved it in spells.

So you can stuff that far, far shite you talk far, far up.

Grinner

I don't get all the Dawson love. He's a mediocre EPL defender who would be raped by the top internationals.

Our current options look bad so continue with scummy cunt Terry.

Sky1981

They should be axed based on the collective performance.

Look at how the german teams running amok with the likes of Ozil (20yo), Swchein (25), Mueller (20), Khedira, etc.

It's about collectivity of the teams, at this rate the old guards are having a fucked up mentality, and it's been rotting there at the ground for too long. It's realy is time to start fresh with the u-21, or else it'll be the same old story again and again.

And I do believe there is absolutely zero unity among them, it seems like they're playing for themselves everytime they're on the pitch.

Take a look at Algeria, Slovakia, Ghana, Swiss, etc. Them dont' have the gerrard and lampard, but a real solid teamwork and unity can do wonders.

Sarni

Ghana are the only decent example on that list. Algeria were piss poor at the tournament, didn't score a single goal and only held to a 0-0 draw against England because England was awful. Slovakia, except for the Italy game which was a freak of nature, did absolutely nothing - got a 1-1 draw against a rubbish New Zealand side and got outplayed by both Paraguay and Holland. Switzerland? The same Switzerland who didn't manage to score a single goal against a truly bad Honduras side when they only needed a win to progress? All they did was to fluke a win over Spain, after which everyone all of a sudden labeled them as a solid nice side. They weren't one, they were plain awful with no ability to get forward or score goals, all they did was to frustrate the hell out of you in a hope of getting a goalless draw.

Well, Ghana did impress but on the other hand they have some skillful players in their team, much better than other teams mentioned.

eric le roi

Wes Brown honours:

Premier League: 1998–99, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08
FA Cup: 1998–99, 2003–04
Football League Cup: 2005–06, 2009–10
FA Community Shield: 2003, 2007, 2008
UEFA Champions League: 1998–99, 2007–08

Far, far better? OK.......

MacMUFC

The mans an overrated cunt. By using this, you're agreeing that Terry was better than Ferdinand in 2008 and Vidic in 2009? Madness, absolute madness. Also, Ferdinand was definitely better Terry in the World Cup 2006, but they gave it to the big man on reputation alone.

eric le roi

Terry and Carragher have something in common. They often find themselves making last ditch tackles and generally throwing themselves around to stop an attacking player - or just handballing it in Terry's case. This is usually because they have got themselves in to that mess in the first place due to poor positioning or lack of pace.

Because of these perceived 'heroics', and the fact they are English and white, they are revered by fans and pundits alike.

Meanwhile, the good defenders, the ones who make it look easy because of their positioning and/or pace, get overlooked. Carvalho is a far superior defender to Terry but he's not English.

kouroux

Not really, he just listed Terry's individual awards.Whatever we think of Rio/Vida in those years, Terry got them awards.He must have done something right

None of the things you listed are individual awards.Big difference

sajeev

Carvalho got sold? when did that happen?

and i would be extremely happy if that did happen

adexkola

Oh my bad, incorrect information

Sparky_Hughes

Best post in this thread.