Lionel Messi

Freak

I don't see why messi can't achieve what the likes of fat ronaldo(pre injuries) and zidane achieved. He has all the talent to do so. However he needs to be consistant and stay injury free. At this moment in time, while he has been brilliant, he has not truly dominated football..yet.

FranklyVulgar

I don't have an agend and i'm also in a position where i've watched both players a great deal. I doubt anyone would disagree with me if they did the same.

The people catagorically dissmissing Messi are in world of there own delusions.

Time will tell but i really can't see anything stopping Messi becoming as cescs_mullet said "an all time great".

cesc's_mullet

A puff's someone who takes a slight tickle then tumbles onto the ground.

Sound familiar?

kanchelskis14

It's a possibility, if he's peak lasts longer than some others who have still been better in my view.

Ronaldinho at his Barca best was better than Messi and Ronaldo quite easily, in my opinion of course. Ronaldo at his Barca and Inter best was better than all three.

kouroux

Trust me I agree with you but sometimes you're way too much on the subject

Addict

Ronaldo has hardened up now. You never see him dive anymore.

Maestro Minded

he isn't a forward/striker, is he?

he's a winger, which is part of the midfield. united already have two forwards upfront.

Merman

True

Merman

Ronaldo is the furthest forward in most games, he is a wide forward and so is Messi. They are not wingers, wingers are midfielders, wide forwards are not.

Merman

Agree with that. Our Ronaldo is still at the level of Henry imo. Still a long way to compare him to even Ronaldinho.

VP

Nah Messi and Ronaldo are already better than Ronaldinho ever was

FranklyVulgar

It was clearly worse sinse i'm not baised.

If i go over the top it's only a direct reaction to a lot of United fans having no idea about football outside of Old Trafford.

If Ronaldo didn't play for United most people on this forum wouldn't even have seen him play.

Merman

We played 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 last season with Rooney supposed to be the one upfront which he could not manage to. Ronaldo played upfront most of the game, but still wide. You can make a case for Ronaldo being a winger/forward, but he is definitely not a midfielder.

Maestro Minded

So when messi and nani are in the field, united actually play with 4 forwards at the same time...?

Actually, last season when eurosport.com had a function where you could see how players moved on the pitch, you could clearly see that ronaldo spent most his time on the right midfield. the difference between him and most wingers though is that he continues to go towards the goal, whether he passes or not.

Merman

Check the density graphs if you need. Both Rooney and Tevez played deeper than Ronaldo. He spends most of the time on the right, but not deep enough to be labelled a midfielder.

kouroux

That's what they want you to believe in video games and such ,why is he always on forward categories to receive individual trophies and such.
He's no midfielder ,face it

FranklyVulgar

Didn't he also have more attempts on goal than any other player?

Not exactly typical wing play to shoot more than the strikers.

Merman

That doesn't make him any inferior to Messi. Based on the last two seasons, Ronaldo is head and shoulders above the everybody in the world other bar Rio and Casillas. I agree that Messi has more potential and probably more watchable, but don't let the potential blind the facts.

FranklyVulgar

It was more a response to people saying Ronaldo was a midfielder, nothing to do with messi. I don't know the stats for Messi as far as shots go and all that.

MDFC Manager

As has been pointed out by some people over here messi isnt anywhere close to being as effective as zidane , fat ronaldo and ronaldinho at his prime. He seems to have the potential to be as good though (as does our ronaldo) .

Maestro Minded

do you know a site that provides that today? ... for some reason eurosport no longer does.

FranklyVulgar

People have this strange misconception about the effectivness of Messi.

He is a world class tallent, he is extreamly effective be it creating chances, releaving preasure, beating opponents or scoring goals.

Messi is highly productive and highly effective.

So far this season Messi has played 14 games, scored 11 goals and been credited with 8 assists. Also some of those games he came off the bench. He probably has 10 or 11 starts...

But yeah he isn't effective, or productive all he can do is beat defenders for fun...

MDFC Manager

And with those stats he can lay claim to 'The greatest of all time' tag? Let him play 80-90 games over 2 seasons and have stats like the ones you have have posted and then you can rave about him being the best. At this moment in time i would rather have Ronaldo in my team than Messi. Hell i'd even Torres than Messi.

Maestro Minded

the way spanish teams bend their backs for barca and real is not even funny. the goals and assists eto'o and messi are producing at the moment is not a benchmark for how great they are.

however, i do think messi and eto'o are two of the best players in the world.

FranklyVulgar

I'm not sure i understand where you're coming from maestro. are you emplying that spanish sides lie down for barca and real?

Spanish teams are guilty of being too attacking that is all. But last season Barca and real weren't hammering teams. Under Capello Madrid didn't hammer teams and Barca haven't hammered teams like this in a long time.

It's not like they are only hammering the smaller teams, they hammered atletico too. Ask liverpool how awful atletico are.

You can't take anything away from a team that go out and attack attack attack and win a game 5 or 6 nil.

I honestly think it is a testiment to how good Barca have been so far rather than anything else. Remember the first game of the season Barca were defeated by a newly promoted side...

FranklyVulgar

according to wiki messi has played 87 games in la liga scoring 37 times and has been credited with 22 assists. This is a guy who has recently turned 21...

If Messi keeps going at the rate he has so far this season you wont have a leg to stand on mate.

Freak

Eboue?

Maestro Minded

exactly, by playing like that off course they will be whopped.
imagine aston villa playing full attack againt united. the outcome would be worse than romas humiliation.

Basel is a great example. they learned from the 5-0 defeat at home against barca, and managed to get 1-1 away.

reddev07

Damn right it does. Adebayor, when we beat you lot 4-0 in the fa cup.

Thanks for the happy memories reminder

Cling Bak

Ronaldo is deemed to be one of the best strikers of his generation, if not ever. He's won the World Cup, played in 2 finals, been top scorer at a single tournament whilst also having the distinction of scoring the most World Cup finals goals of all time. Ever.

He has also been top goalscorer in Brazilian, Dutch, Spain (twice), as well as being the last player in Spain to have scored 30 league goals. Oh and he's Brazil's 3rd highest goalscorer too.

He might have had injuries and let himself go a bit, but I'm afraid Ronaldo did not screw up his career.

For me, Messi could be one of the greatest ever.

Merman

In the longer run, Ronaldo won't be fit enough to lace Messi's boots.

hehe, take that ronaldo fanboys

FranklyVulgar

teams play one up front against barca all the time. They look to break quickly. they concede alot of possession. But they don't abandon there footballing philosophy.

Basel isn't really an issue. Barca only just beat a team 1-0 in the cup a team from the 3rd devision in spain. Madrid were knocked out by a team in the 3rd division.

Barca were through already and put out a 2nd string...

Name Changed

He will become the world's greatest player in history, in my opinion.

Count Duckula

Yes, I think that Messi, if he keeps this up, will be considered an all-time great by the time he retires.

But that doesn't mean Ronaldo won't be... I'm not going to say who will be better, because we don't know, and it's not like there can only be one all-time great remembered from each time period.

What about Best and Pelé, or Zidane and Maldini? All are considered all-time greats and will be remembered for decades to come, and yet they shared the same time period.

So to agree that Messi will be an all-time great is not to say that Ronaldo will not. It is also not saying that Messi is better; it is merely agreeing that he will be fondly remembered for a long time after he retires, much like Maradona. I think the same will happen to Ronaldo, too.

Murphman

No logic in that statement at all. If Pele had been born in Colombia or Maradonna in Peru they'd still have been Pele and Maradonna.

Merman

You missed out my second point.

Cling Bak

The best players usually do win the World Cup, though.

Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Zidane is a good start. I agree with Dippersripper that Messi, given the team Argentina have, should win the WC and if they did it would mean he'd probably be instrumental to that so he'd be highlighted for it. So the two probably go hand in hand.

In fairness, they were probably the best in 2006 and should have won that.

Murphman

I didn't miss it, I don't agree with you. If he ends up being a better player than Maradonna (and that's always going to be subjective) then it's because he was a better player end of, nothing to do with how good the national team were in his era.

Murphman

Cruyff.
Eusebio.
Dalglish.
Van Basten.
Platini.
Best.
Gullitt.
Cantona.
Rush.


Do you want me to go on?

Spoony Kobayashi

He's definitely got the potential to be amongst the likes of Zico, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini et al. As for Maradona? nah, I just can;t see it. Maradona had everything. Charisma, arrogance. . and a passing ability as good as his dribbling. We'll never see the likes of him again. Messi's fantastic though, and I'd give mine and Murphman's left testicle to see him play for the famous Man United.