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9th December 2012, 22:15
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#12042 (permalink) | |
 Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
Posts: 45,817
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Quote:
anyway, the thing is that in argentina, those winnings mean a lot the fact that we have olimpic gold medals and brazil doesnt and that we have more under 21 world cups than our beloved enemies, makes those achievments very important |
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9th December 2012, 22:17
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#12044 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
Posts: 45,817
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9th December 2012, 22:47
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#12046 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Old Trafford
Posts: 9,129
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Quote:
If we're talking about the world (which I think is the case here) then there is little relevance to that comparison.. My answer to the original question is: Nothing. There are people here who still don't think Messi is as good as Cruyff for example.. So did Cruyff win a world cup?? If Messi wins a world cup then he will probably convince more people that he's the best player ever, but there will NEVER be a unanimous opinion about that, no matter what he did. There will always be the "He has Xavi and Iniesta, can't do it in the Britannica, he is doping, ...etc.". Also, I think judging a player based on 5,6,7 games is far from being the best way to decide if he's the best player ever or not. |
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9th December 2012, 22:55
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#12048 (permalink) | |
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Desperately wants to be ITK
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ITK
Posts: 9,740
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9th December 2012, 22:58
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#12049 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,430
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Messi: "It was more you, the press, who talked about Muller's record. It's broken now, so you shouldn't talk about it anymore... (smiles)"
Messi: "I'll try to score more this year to make the record a bit more difficult to break for future players... (smiles)" 
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9th December 2012, 23:06
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#12050 (permalink) | |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,430
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Quote:
But that's just the point, it's a completely different challenge, it's the hardest challenge in football I think (or not far off). The facts are that Messi has only had 1 outstanding international tournament run, ie. 2007 Copa América, and 2 average to below average ones (2010 WC and 2011 CA). It's too bad he wasn't given more of a chance at the 2006 WC because he was in good form there, but ultimately only 1 start and 2 sub apps is too little to go on, so I won't conclusively rate his performance in that tourney. The outstanding performance was also offset by a poor final. His 2010 WCQ campaign was also on the verge of below average. It's only been the past year that he has stepped it up (also the conditions around him have improved, with finally a more competent coach). Let's hope he keeps it up. edit: Damn, I use 'also' a lot... |
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9th December 2012, 23:15
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#12053 (permalink) |
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Not Allowed A Hash Tag
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Formerly cw1984
Posts: 31,754
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Only Messi would be stretured off midweek but still manage to be fit enough to score at the weekend.
I'm sure Barcelona have actually got about 10 clones of him or something. |
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10th December 2012, 00:07
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#12055 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,430
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Lionel MESSI
age: 25 Records World Most goals scored in a season (club and national team): 82 goals Most goals scored in a season (club): 73 goals Most goals scored in a year (club and national team): 86 goals Most goals scored in a year (club): 74 goals Most goals scored in FIFA Club World Cup: 4 goals (held jointly with Denilson) Europe Most goals scored in a European Cup season: 14 goals (held jointly with José Altafini) Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 awards (shared with Gerd Müller) Highest scorer in a European Cup game: 5 goals (held jointly with ten other players) Argentina Most goals scored in a year (national team): 12 goals (shared with Batistuta) Spain Most goals scored in La Liga in a season: 50 goals Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8 hat-tricks Most goals scored in the Supercopa de Espańa: 10 goals Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 10 matches (shared with Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima and Mariano Martín) Barcelona Top goalscorer in official competitions: 283 goals Record Goalscorer in UEFA Champions League: 56 goals Record Goalscorer in European Competitions: 57 goals Record Goalscorer in international Competitions: 61 goals Most La Liga hat-tricks overall: 15 Most all competitions hat-tricks overall: 21 ...within reach Europe Top goalscorer in European Cup (excl. qualifying): joint 2nd with 56 goals | Raúl leads with 71 goals Top goalscorer in European Cup (incl. qualifying): 4th with 56 goals | Raúl, RvN and Schevchenko ahead of him Argentina Top goalscorer for Argentina NT: 4th with 31 goals | Batistuta leads with 56 goals, Crespo 35, Maradona 34 Spain Top goalscorer in La Liga: 9th with 192 goals | Telmo Zarra leads with 251 goals Barcelona Top goalscorer in all competitions (incl. friendlies): 3rd with 305 goals | Paulino Alcántara leads with 369 goals |
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10th December 2012, 01:16
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#12056 (permalink) |
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American
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brooklyn, Connecticut. "Football Was Alright As Long as We Were Winning Everything And Everybody Knew Their Place"
Posts: 13,155
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I'm interested in seeing if he can break the record of most goals scored in 13 months, to be honest...
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10th December 2012, 01:35
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#12057 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Old Trafford
Posts: 9,129
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Quote:
Also you do realize that almost every single one of those records was held by a different player, right? |
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10th December 2012, 02:17
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#12059 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Porto
Posts: 5,340
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10th December 2012, 04:27
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#12060 (permalink) |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,973
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Two years from now, all of those records will be his. In fact, the only records that won't be his a year from now will be the goals for Argentina and Champions league most likely. 2 years though and he'll probably get those as well. Ridiculous the amount of goals he scores. To think that if you took half of the amount of goals and assists he gets, he would still probably be considered as the best, or up there with the very best in the world. We think Van Persie is brilliant and consistent with his goalscoring, and he is. But Messi scored twice as many goals as RVP did last season. Just shows how good Messi really is.
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10th December 2012, 04:51
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#12061 (permalink) | |
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Cheesy
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Formerly addernoire.
Posts: 6,283
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10th December 2012, 07:13
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#12063 (permalink) |
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No Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Djibouti (La terre des braves)
Posts: 32,570
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With all he's accomplished since the start of the season, it's impossible for him not to break the record in terms of Ballon d'Or either.
The most accomplished season/year ever from an individual point of view |
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10th December 2012, 08:28
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#12065 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sea wihtin a sea.
Posts: 6,183
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Quote:
Pele is the only one always making an idiot out of himself when talking shit about Messi. |
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10th December 2012, 10:24
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#12066 (permalink) |
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Dull
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Why do it the easy way? Do it the United way!
Posts: 31,981
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In my, admittedly short, time watching football I've never seen a player like this. He's reduced the most difficult part of the game to something of simplicity. The records keep falling and he's still only 25.
Just imagine what his career might look like when he finishes. |
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10th December 2012, 13:18
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#12067 (permalink) |
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O'Fortuna
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Praying for Carrick's ongoing fitness
Posts: 4,375
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Incredible achievement! It's not even as though he is a greedy bastard, how many more could he have scored had he not been prepared to pass to a teammate in a better position?
I would be interested to see how many assists he has amassed during not only this season, but in his whole career. Has there ever been a more consistently prolific goalscorer and provider? If there has, then i am unaware of him. Just to throw my hat in the ring regarding the WC. He may no longer have to win it to be considered the best ever imo. But for me he has to do at least what Cryuff did and dominate a WC without winning it. Although obviously winning it would undoubtedly put him at the top of the tree in most people's view, i would suggest. A true phenomenon! 
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10th December 2012, 13:40
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#12069 (permalink) | |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,430
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[1] according to the stats I've kept on my own (verified by as much possible official sources as I could find; ie. LFP & RFEF for domestic competitions, UEFA & FIFA for international competitions) he has 109 career assists for Barcelona and 21 for Argentina. apps(starts)-goals-assists FC BARCELONA 2004/05: 9(2)-1-0 2005/06: 25(17)-8-3 2006/07: 36(31)-17-3 2007/08: 40(34)-16-13 2008/09: 51(41)-38-18 2009/10: 53(46)-47-11 2010/11: 55(48)-53-24 2011/12: 60(57)-73-29 2012/13: 23(21)-30-8 TOTAL: 352(297)-283-109 | 0.80 gpg & 0.31 apg ARGENTINA 2005/06: 10(4)-2-2 2006/07: 10(9)-4-2 2007/08: 10(10)-3-3 2008/09: 9(9)-3-2 2009/10: 11(11)-1-1 2010/11: 11(11)-4-6 2011/12: 9(9)-9-5 2012/13: 6(6)-5-0 TOTAL: 76(69)-31-21 | 0.41 gpg & 0.28 apg [2] I agree he should have at least one outstanding WC (and probably reach the semi-final at least), where he is declared best player or top 3 anyway |
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10th December 2012, 15:30
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#12070 (permalink) |
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Fletchers biggest fan
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: S'pore
Posts: 251
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Congrats messi. To me, already the best player ever. But I must question the quality of defending in the Spanish league. Look at the first goal against Betis. No one marking messi at the edge of the box, and no tackles made as he homes in on goal. Can't see that happening in the EPL or in Italy. I hope he comes to old trafford one day, just to prove he can do magic in England as well.
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10th December 2012, 15:47
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#12075 (permalink) | |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lichtaart, Belgium
Posts: 913
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10th December 2012, 16:05
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#12076 (permalink) | |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Old Trafford
Posts: 9,129
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Quote:
 but I agree, they should have gone for this.. 
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10th December 2012, 16:22
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#12077 (permalink) |
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Have you ever been in love before?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,397
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There's all sorts of reasons for the World Cup being particularly significant - the acute pressures of performing over a one-month period being unlike anything else in the game, the historical value (if not current quality) of the tournament surpassing all others, the relatively consistent level of quality in the tournament over the years making it easier to compare and the unique challenges of international football in general. They're all valid, but I think ultimately there's a certain romance to it that appeals to all of us. It just feels right to be able to say the greatest player to play the game stood above these 735 other mere mortals and sprinkled magic throughout one month of non-stop football, forever etching himself in the memory of men, women and children worldwide in a way only the World Cup can. Playing in a country that has dedicated itself to football and welcomed people from across the globe to take part in one month of what is ultimately a celebration of the game itself...it's the greatest stage to make a lasting impression.
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10th December 2012, 16:27
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#12078 (permalink) | |
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Love Nani, Hate Ando
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Bandwagon
Posts: 24,219
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10th December 2012, 16:31
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#12080 (permalink) | |
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American
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brooklyn, Connecticut. "Football Was Alright As Long as We Were Winning Everything And Everybody Knew Their Place"
Posts: 13,155
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Quote:
 And no one answered my Villa question by the way. |
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