Lionel Messi

Ballache · 12th February 2009, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouroux

You wish

so do i

marcosdeto · 12th February 2009, 23:17

as i said before, i don't think it's possible to compare both players, they are like pele and maradona, they are both great footballers with different skills

and i want any of them -or both, of course- in my team

i thank god that messi is an argie, but that doesn't mean i wouldn't be as pleased if ronaldo was one too

FranklyVulgar · 12th February 2009, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouroux

You wish

He's a lost cause, when Messi is at his best it is clear no-one comes close right now.

Regarding Domenech you are so right. How he is still in that job i'll never know. Firstly Frey should be the number one without question. He has constantly over looked Mexes until now and has never once managed to get the best out of the players at his disposal. Ribery is the one player i think that has the level of maturity and character to raise the bar and inspire the side, i thought he played very well in patches and always looks to take the game to his opponents.

kouroux · 12th February 2009, 23:22

Domenech has a big hatred towards players who play in Italy.It's a known factor,Frey only made one big mistake in a match and after he was nowhere to be found.It took him a long time to play Mexes,he'd forgotten about Trezguet when he was fit and playing.

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouroux

He doesn't do that anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballache

agreed

he doesn't need to, his movement with the ball and without the ball is much different that circa 2006. I miss this

But it has all been for the better, of course.

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosdeto

as i said before, i don't think it's possible to compare both players, they are like pele and maradona, they are both great footballers with different skills

and i want any of them -or both, of course- in my team

i thank god that messi is an argie, but that doesn't mean i wouldn't be as pleased if ronaldo was one too

what is this?!?!?! this common sense.

What is this doing on the caf!!!!!!

Ballache · 12th February 2009, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALX8725

he doesn't need to, his movement with the ball and without the ball is much different that circa 2006. I miss this

But it has all been for the better, of course.

season 2006\2007 Ronaldo was amazing...last season he didnt play as good but was more clinical infront of goal

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballache

season 2006\2007 Ronaldo was amazing...last season he didnt play as good but was more clinical infront of goal

06-07 Ronaldo was more of a playmaker

07-08 Ronaldo was more of a match-winner

"different strokes for different folks"

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:34

but in no way did he "not play as good" last season, he was a one man wrecking team

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:35

what were his assists last season? not to mention deflected shots-on-goal and free kicks that were converted into goals?

And the other team members that were freed up to score goals because other teams had to mark Ronaldo with 2-3 players?

can someone pull those stats please?

Ballache · 12th February 2009, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALX8725

06-07 Ronaldo was more of a playmaker

07-08 Ronaldo was more of a match-winner

"different strokes for different folks"

i liked the 06-07 Ronaldo more...not that i would say no to another season like 07-08. he is a magnificent player, but for me Messi is better. i argued that Ronaldo is better for ages but this season it was obvious who's the better player. too bad Messi plays for Barca though...can't stand them

kouroux · 12th February 2009, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALX8725

he doesn't need to, his movement with the ball and without the ball is much different that circa 2006. I miss this

But it has all been for the better, of course.

He doesn't need to but also whenever he tried to dribble past players it's only about his crazy pace.If he's double marked there ain't much he can do about it.
I also miss his dribbling,as stupid as it looked at times it was great to watch

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballache

i liked the 06-07 Ronaldo more...not that i would say no to another season like 07-08. he is a magnificent player, but for me Messi is better. i argued that Ronaldo is better for ages but this season it was obvious who's the better player. too bad Messi plays for Barca though...can't stand them

I don't disagree that Messi is the best this season, Ronaldo's form has been horrible. (look at how spoiled we are, considering Ronaldo's stats this season are still > most strikers/wingers in the league and world)

I mentioned in the "I Told You So" thread that Messi will succeed Ronaldo this year as FIFA World Player of the Year.

Ballache · 12th February 2009, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALX8725

I don't disagree that Messi is the best this season, Ronaldo's form has been horrible. (look at how spoiled we are, considering Ronaldo's stats this season are still > most strikers/wingers in the league and world)

I mentioned in the "I Told You So" thread that Messi will succeed Ronaldo this year as FIFA World Player of the Year.

Ronaldo hasn't been horrible...the thing is what im trying to say is that we saw Ronaldo at his best and now we're seeing Messi at his best...for me Messi is the better player

vijay · 12th February 2009, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouroux

Spot on.I'd be lying if I was to say I watched that Argentina team live or a lot. Maradona was undoubtedly the best but he couldn't have achieved what he has without some good teammates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosdeto

that didn't happened till 1992 or something, six years later

and don't forget that pumpido, burruchaga, giusti and ruggeri played the 1990 world cup too -with maradona- and, they came second

Pumpido crocked up against Soviet Union and never seen again.

Had he played ahead of Goycochea, you lot wouldn't have advanced to the finals.

Burruchaga was shite, Cannigia eclipsed him...Guisti was finished by 90.

Ruggeri...he played well.

ALX8725 · 12th February 2009, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballache

Ronaldo hasn't been horrible...the thing is what im trying to say is that we saw Ronaldo at his best and now we're seeing Messi at his best...for me Messi is the better player

well, we all know what he is fully capable of... so in a way, yeah he has been horrible (not single handedly destroying teams one match after another this season)

KingEric7 · 13th February 2009, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALX8725

yes

because of his playing style, he doesn't need to. Both players are just playing to their strengths. Ronnie can do other things, like well placed crosses from either by line, after getting there when he is finished making fullbacks look like silly school girls.

Bollocks. The 06/07 Ronaldo was capable of doing it, but there has never been a point where Ronaldo could beat men as consistently, or with anywhere near as much ease as what Messi is doing now. Stepovers and tricks do not equate to world class dribbling ability. That sort of talent is reserved only for the most gifted of players; namely, Giggs, Messi, Maradona, etc...

ALX8725 · 13th February 2009, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

Bollocks. The 06/07 Ronaldo was capable of doing it, but there has never been a point where Ronaldo could beat men as consistently, or with anywhere near as much ease as what Messi is doing now. Stepovers and tricks do not equate to world class dribbling ability. That sort of talent is reserved only for the most gifted of players; namely, Giggs, Messi, Maradona, etc...

KingEric7 · 13th February 2009, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal?

Ronaldo at his best is better than Messi has ever been.

Can Messi score headers like Ronaldo did in Rome or Moscow? Can Messi take freekicks like Ronaldo?

Ronaldo must have about 75 freekicks/shots every game. I could score a few every season if I had that many, nevermind Messi.

KingEric7 · 13th February 2009, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALX8725

There is nothing remotely controversial about that post; Ronaldo does not possess world class dribbling ability. That's no discredit to him, because only a few players do.

vijay · 13th February 2009, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

Ronaldo must have about 75 freekicks/shots every game. I could score a few every season if I had that many, nevermind Messi.

Ronaldo has a better freekick taken vs scored record than Beckham.

But Beckham had a higher percentage of on target freekicks, prior to 2001 that made him dangerous.

Even if Ronaldo scores few with his free kicks majority of his kicks either hit the wall or land in to the stands, not a big threat only as good as Beckham post 2001.

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

Ronaldo must have about 75 freekicks/shots every game. I could score a few every season if I had that many, nevermind Messi.

Pls provide link to freekick Messi scored.

KingEric7 · 13th February 2009, 00:28

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kouroux

You wish

No I do not wish Messi suddenly develops great heading ability or freekick skills. Why would I wish that?

vijay · 13th February 2009, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal?

Pls provide link to freekick Messi scored.

Second match this season..

Cannot remember the opponents though.

Nevertheless, had our Ronaldo played at Barca, they wouldn't have given him nuff to time practice his pyrotechiques with set pieces , never mind continuing it even though he isnt that good.

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

great clip, best freekick messi ever took.

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijay

Second match this season..

Cannot remember the opponents though.

Nevertheless, had our Ronaldo played at Barca, they wouldn't have given him nuff to time practice his pyrotechiques with set pieces , never mind continuing it even though he isnt that good.

Pure speculation, had Messi played in the Prem he might have been kicked so much that he went crying to mummy like Reyes did.

KingEric7 · 13th February 2009, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal?

Pure speculation, had Messi played in the Prem he might have been kicked so much that he went crying to mummy like Reyes did.

He was kicked all over the place when Barcelona played Madrid if I remember rightly. Not that it was a problem mind, he's much stronger than Ronaldo on the ball.

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

He was kicked all over the place when Barcelona played Madrid if I remember rightly. Not that it was a problem mind, he's much stronger than Ronaldo on the ball.

Now you're basing it on one game? Most accept that the Prem is more physical than La Liga. Many players who could not cope with the Prem have excelled in La Liga. Reyes is the prime example.

KingEric7 · 13th February 2009, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal?

Now you're basing it on one game? Most accept that the Prem is more physical than La Liga. Many players who could not cope with the Prem have excelled in La Liga. Reyes is the prime example.

I see no reason why Messi wouldn't succeed in the Premiership if Ronaldo has done.

As I have already said, he's much stronger on the ball than Ronaldo.

vijay · 13th February 2009, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal?

Now you're basing it on one game? Most accept that the Prem is more physical than La Liga. Many players who could not cope with the Prem have excelled in La Liga. Reyes is the prime example.

Many players who were washed out in La Liga, Serie A and the French league ended up as legends in the premier league. It can happen either way.

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

I see no reason why Messi wouldn't succeed in the Premiership if Ronaldo has done.

As I have already said, he's much stronger on the ball than Ronaldo.

I was merely speculating much like vijay claiming Ronaldo wouldn't have made it at Barca.

Cal? · 13th February 2009, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijay

Many players who were washed out in La Liga, Serie A and the French league ended up as legends in the premier league. It can happen either way.

It certainly can, Forlan, Kanoute being some examples.

AttackingFlair · 13th February 2009, 00:51

Ronaldo's strength on the ball is underrated, recent example was when Belleti hacked at him and then got the chance to hack him again and did so. I also think Ronaldo's dribbling is underrated, when he first came to the club, that was his main asset and I use to love watching him play. Okay he doesn't use it as much anymore and isn't as good as Messi or Ronaldinho at it but he isn't too bad himself.. 06/07 shows that imo.

Messi's a better player than Ronaldo, yes. However, Ronaldo is still quality and even though he didn't show as much of his dribbling last season etc he still has those qualities and can't exactly lose them that quickly and even so he can get them back. Hopefully he plays like he does in 06/07 again and then I'm sure there wouldn't be as much criticism.

ALX8725 · 13th February 2009, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingEric7

There is nothing remotely controversial about that post; Ronaldo does not possess world class dribbling ability. That's no discredit to him, because only a few players do.

<3

Instant Karma · 13th February 2009, 02:21

If Messi played in the Premiership, he'd play 10 games a season and remain injured for the rest.

Anderson Searl · 13th February 2009, 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

If Messi played in the Premiership, he'd play 10 games a season and remain injured for the rest.

YUP

ALX8725 · 13th February 2009, 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

If Messi played in the Premiership, he'd play 10 games a season and remain injured for the rest.

this is probably true, Messi gets injured quite easily and often for someone playing in La Liga...

dumbo · 13th February 2009, 02:56

What Madrid did to Messi was as nasty as i've seen. I can't ever remember anyone getting that badly treated in the prem. Not since F Ronaldo in 98 in the world cup did I wince as much.

It's all well and good getting kicked about the pitch, knocks and bruises . But having your exposed achilles raked again and again and again was just brutal to watch. Especially given Messi's injury record.

Still he went on to help his team win.

Name Changed · 13th February 2009, 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

If Messi played in the Premiership, he'd play 10 games a season and remain injured for the rest.

This season seems to be a different story.

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12th February 2009, 23:17	#2002 (permalink)
marcosdeto Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina Posts: 45,815	as i said before, i don't think it's possible to compare both players, they are like pele and maradona, they are both great footballers with different skills and i want any of them -or both, of course- in my team i thank god that messi is an argie, but that doesn't mean i wouldn't be as pleased if ronaldo was one too

12th February 2009, 23:22	#2004 (permalink)
kouroux No Lifer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Djibouti (La terre des braves) Posts: 32,539	Domenech has a big hatred towards players who play in Italy.It's a known factor,Frey only made one big mistake in a match and after he was nowhere to be found.It took him a long time to play Mexes,he'd forgotten about Trezguet when he was fit and playing.

12th February 2009, 23:34	#2009 (permalink)
ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY Join Date: May 2007 Location: Take Me Home, United Road. To The Place I Belong, To Old Trafford, To See United. Take Me Home, United Road. Posts: 4,572	but in no way did he "not play as good" last season, he was a one man wrecking team

12th February 2009, 23:35	#2010 (permalink)
ALX8725 reyalP maeT htuoY Join Date: May 2007 Location: Take Me Home, United Road. To The Place I Belong, To Old Trafford, To See United. Take Me Home, United Road. Posts: 4,572	what were his assists last season? not to mention deflected shots-on-goal and free kicks that were converted into goals? And the other team members that were freed up to score goals because other teams had to mark Ronaldo with 2-3 players? can someone pull those stats please?

13th February 2009, 00:28	#2023 (permalink)
KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Patrice Evra is that which no greater can be conceived. Posts: 21,765

13th February 2009, 00:51	#2034 (permalink)
AttackingFlair First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,838	Ronaldo's strength on the ball is underrated, recent example was when Belleti hacked at him and then got the chance to hack him again and did so. I also think Ronaldo's dribbling is underrated, when he first came to the club, that was his main asset and I use to love watching him play. Okay he doesn't use it as much anymore and isn't as good as Messi or Ronaldinho at it but he isn't too bad himself.. 06/07 shows that imo. Messi's a better player than Ronaldo, yes. However, Ronaldo is still quality and even though he didn't show as much of his dribbling last season etc he still has those qualities and can't exactly lose them that quickly and even so he can get them back. Hopefully he plays like he does in 06/07 again and then I'm sure there wouldn't be as much criticism.

13th February 2009, 02:21	#2036 (permalink)
Instant Karma Closet Gooner Join Date: May 2006 Location: Fletchcafe - Population: 5 (May 2006) Posts: 7,138	If Messi played in the Premiership, he'd play 10 games a season and remain injured for the rest.

13th February 2009, 02:56	#2039 (permalink)
dumbo Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,666	What Madrid did to Messi was as nasty as i've seen. I can't ever remember anyone getting that badly treated in the prem. Not since F Ronaldo in 98 in the world cup did I wince as much. It's all well and good getting kicked about the pitch, knocks and bruises . But having your exposed achilles raked again and again and again was just brutal to watch. Especially given Messi's injury record. Still he went on to help his team win.