Mikel documents forged

antihenry

Monitoring them? Keeping tabs on them? This is outrageous!

"United did do a little wrong" Well, no need to be so modest.

CnutOfAllCnuts

You're the deluded one. Every MU fan in here keeps bringing up the so called contract like it's an answer to every problem.

Player contracts are quite essential in professional football, don't you think?

The circumstances under which Mikel was pressured to sign it are more than questionable.

Was he pressured?

Why did he approach United and tell them he wanted to sign?

Does the photos from the signing show a player that was pressured to do something he didn't want to, or did they appear to be of a player who was delighted to have signed for possible the biggest club in the world?


Even if United weren't aware of Andersen's forgery they certainly knew something wasn't right but they took a chance anyway.

How were they supposed to know something wasn't right?

They certainly knew of Chelsea involvement in bringing Mikel to Lyn and providing for him

Which was illegal. Good case that, hopefully your club will put this forward in a court case...

and certainly were aware of his agent not being present and his family in Nigeria not being notified.

The very agent he told plenty of people he was glad to be rid of?

Why should a player's family be notified?

Truth is,if you did approach Mikel as a free agent he'd contact his agent Shittu, Chelsea would step in and that would be the end of it.

Again, Chelsea could have done nothing if the player wanted to go to United. Which he presumingly did at the time, considering he signed for them.


So Andersen, unhappy about not getting anything from Chelsea end in the arrangement that was in place and knowing of MU's interest, contacts United and offers them a way to sign Mikel without Chelsea's and Shittu's knowledge. They are more than happy to oblige but don't realize that the cunt forged the contract to get the deal done.

That seems to be true.

It doesn't help Chelsea's case to get the settlement cancelled though, seeing as they had no rights to the player whatsoever.

CnutOfAllCnuts

The truth being?

Do you think there might be any clauses in the settlement, in which United have secured them against any such probabilities? United would have been stupid not to, considering all this was a very likely outcome of the court case.

MrMarcello

From how I understand the amatuer player signings, a club can offer x player professional terms and the losing club will receive compensation based on a tribunal court. If Mikel was on amatuer terms at Lyn, then United could have offered him a professional contract at any time. This is exactly how United signed Pique and Rossi, amongst many others over the years. The losing club can attempt to match or better the professional offer. If not, they receive compensation.

I figure all three clubs and the player's agent acted illegally in some manner or two. But the facts are 1) Mikel was on amatuer terms, 2) United could sign him to professional terms whenever, 3) Chelsea bought his registration from United, and 4) knowing all the facts, Chelsea agreed to settle OUT OF COURT.

BTW, didn't Lyn return the 2m or so United paid and then Chelsea covered those intitial costs through the settlement?

CnutOfAllCnuts

Yes

antihenry

Player contracts are quite essential in professional football, don't you think?

They are, but they aren't written stone. If the fraud is involved a contract should be voided.


Was he pressured?

Why did he approach United and tell them he wanted to sign?

When did Mikel ever approach United?

Does the photos from the signing show a player that was pressured to do something he didn't want to, or did they appear to be of a player who was delighted to have signed for possible the biggest club in the world?

That's subjective. You don't know what lies and insinuations an 18 year old kid was told by Andersen in terms of his contractual obligations to Lyn,sale to MU and what choice he if any had in the matter.He was manipulated,pure and simple.That doesn't mean he should be unhappy about joining a big club like MU but that's beside the point.

How were they supposed to know something wasn't right?

They monitored Mikel for a very long time and knew of Chelsea long term involvement with the lad. Andersen knew his trick would fall apart if Mikel tried to contact anybody even his own family so he had to pull the deal off fast and with maximum secrecy. I doubt MU reps have been so naive not to realize
that Chelsea won't just walk away from the starlet they invested in so much and given Andersen's past and the circumstances surrounding the signing they knew they were in the wrong,they just didn't know how badly,otherwise they wouldn't get involved.


Which was illegal. Good case that, hopefully your club will put this forward in a court case...

I doubt anything will come out of it. You'd have to indict most top clubs in Europe because it's common practice,which is not to say it's right.



The very agent he told plenty of people he was glad to be rid of?

Hearsay,aka bullshit.

Why should a player's family be notified?

Because he's an African kid who just turned 18,living in the foreign country, with his agent being away and unaware of what's going on. Shittu by the way,a scumbag as he probably is,had a family blessing to represent Mikel abroad.


Again, Chelsea could have done nothing if the player wanted to go to United. Which he presumingly did at the time, considering he signed for them.

Well that's what you believe when it comes what he actually wanted, while what i believe he was manipulated into.




That seems to be true.

It doesn't help Chelsea's case to get the settlement cancelled though, seeing as they had no rights to the player whatsoever.

True,that's why i mentioned earlier that all the contracts should be voided,transfer fees returned and the player should become a free agent and sign for whichever club he chooses.

antihenry

So United had reason to believe they were in the wrong, then? Not very noble in the end,are we?

You may be right, but we'll see if Chelsea pursues the matter any further. By the way now that Andersen's fraudulent activity is proved,surely the money obtained by Lyn from Chelsea as part of the settlement should be returned,too?

CnutOfAllCnuts

They are, but they aren't written stone. If the fraud is involved a contract should be voided.

Should Mikel's Chelsea contract be voided?

Was there fraud involved in regards to the contract between United and Mikel?

When did Mikel ever approach United?

When United heard of the opportunity of signing Mikel, they did not want to make the first move, due to the Chelsea connection, and told Lyn that they would not make an appraoch before Mikel told them he wanted to come to United.

That's subjective. You don't know what lies and insinuations an 18 year old kid was told by Andersen in terms of his contractual obligations to Lyn,sale to MU and what choice he if any had in the matter.He was manipulated,pure and simple.That doesn't mean he should be unhappy about joining a big club like MU but that's beside the point.

That's all speculation from your part.

They monitored Mikel for a very long time and knew of Chelsea long term involvement with the lad. Andersen knew his trick would fall apart if Mikel tried to contact anybody even his own family so he had to pull the deal off fast and with maximum secrecy. I doubt MU reps have been so naive not to realize
that Chelsea won't just walk away from the starlet they invested in so much and given Andersen's past and the circumstances surrounding the signing they knew they were in the wrong,they just didn't know how badly,otherwise they wouldn't get involved.

I repeat; Chelsea had no rights to the player. Of course United knew of Chelsea's involvement, and all transfers are tried to be done fast and secretly.



I doubt anything will come out of it. You'd have to indict most top clubs in Europe because it's common practice,which is not to say it's right.


Yes, I am sure most clubs do it. But, if this came came to court, it would be Chelsea that would take the brunt of it.

Hearsay,aka bullshit.

Hearsay? It was told by a number of witnesses in court.

Because he's an African kid who just turned 18,living in the foreign country, with his agent being away and unaware of what's going on. Shittu by the way,a scumbag as he probably is,had a family blessing to represent Mikel abroad.

The very same family Mikel had to pay protection for, because he was scared Shittu and people connected to Chelsea would harm them.


Well that's what you believe when it comes what he actually wanted, while what i believe he was manipulated into.

Which really is the crux of the matter - you only see one side of the story. You believe the "hearsay" coming from Mikel and the Chelsea camp, and don't believe the "hearsay" which opposes that view.


True,that's why i mentioned earlier that all the contracts should be voided,transfer fees returned and the player should become a free agent and sign for whichever club he chooses.

Considering the settlement, that won't happen though.

CnutOfAllCnuts

I believe United had reason to believe at the time of the settlement, obviously, seeing as a court case was filed against Andersen, that there was a possibility that the contract between Lyn and Mikel was forged.

I believe United acted in good faith when they signed the player, delighted getting in there before Chelsea.

According to lawyers and experts in Norway, Chelsea will not get any money from Lyn - due to the settlement, but there is a possibility that the Norwegian state could claim the money - as it was obtained as a result of a criminal act, i.e. according to the law you cannot profit from a criminal offence.

antihenry

Boring you just reply to my speculations with your own, we could go on forever.
Let's just wait and see what happens.

Partizan

Tell you what, I'll make a wager with you, that being Chelsea will not persue the matter with regards to the 12 million further. Loser resigns their membership here. Why stir up that potential hornets nest for a mere 12 mill.

CnutOfAllCnuts

But, I am not speculating.

The way I see it:

1) The contract between Mikel and United is totally seperate from a) contracts between Mikel and Lyn and b) any fees paid by United to Lyn.

2) A settlement was done out of court between the parties. Surely, the parties would secure themselves against any future claims by any of the other parties. Lyn's current Managing Director even said so in today's newspapers. Hence, he doesn't fear a claim from Chelsea.

Count Duckula

Aww, we'd be a poorer place without either of your memberships How about the loser just makes a public apology thread and is ritually humiliated.

I, for one, don't think Chelsea will pursue this. To them £12,000,000 is a drop in the ocean, they got a player they regard (and obviously so did we) as a good prospect and this way everything stays quiet.

As Partizan says, why stir up a hornets nest?

CnutOfAllCnuts

Anti, did you read this:

Mikel documents forged

antihenry

I don't work for Chelsea nor am in an expert in this kind of legal process. I just post my views on the subject and they're obviously biased and may or may not be, true.

If Caf posters start wagering their membership for every time they could have been wrong on one subject or the other, this forum will be down to bare bones in a matter of weeks.

Count Duckula

I meant to thank you for translating that, Cnut. A very interesting read indeed

CnutOfAllCnuts

Why come out with statements like this then:

Partizan

OK Count, I'm up for that. I repeat, there is no way Chelsea will persue this matter.

antihenry

Yes i did.

I thought it was one of the vivid dreams you had after too much hard partying.

In any case why Chelsea should be bothered? The case was about Andersen and his criminal involvement in Mikel's contract, not us.

And one very important question. If Mikel approached United, wanted to sign for them and couldn't wait to get rid of Shittu, why did Andersen have to forge his contract?

I mean, he was 18 already, all he needed to do was to sign as a free agent for MU or sign a legit contract with Lyn thus enabling Andersen to sell him to United. Why then?

antihenry

It's called an opinion. I'm sure you're aware of the concept.

CnutOfAllCnuts

Nor United

CnutOfAllCnuts

Would you have signed a contract for Lyn knowing that some the top clubs in the world wanted to sign you?

antihenry

Why didn't he sign as a free agent,then?

According to you, Mikel approached United and told them of his ever burning desire to sign for them.His amateur contract was up and since he hasn't signed a professional contract, he was available on a free.

Why did United have to pay for him if they could sign him without spending a penny and most importantly, they wouldn't break any laws if they actually did that, because Chelsea had no legitimate claim to the player?

OK enough.

In what terms?

IBleedRed

At the very worst we give chelski their 12 mil back (which is more than likely never to happen) and we dont have that bag of shit getting sent off in a red shirt

win win

Gasolin

It's not outrageous, it's apparently the truth. They tried to make sure no one could ever approach him, while it is forbidden by FIFA laws to talk to him unless he's 18. So what they did is simply illegal. I'm pretty sure they don't want anyone to dig further in this direction cause what United did was just to invite them once at a training when Chelsea did that. But then, nothing, until the contract. Meanwhile, Chelsea provided all the necessary money for Mikel, which is by itself, a fraud. I really don't think they wanna talk about that at Chelsea

fatboy