Most successful player of all time

ManRyan2 · 26th March 2008, 23:23

Some thoughts :
Cruyff ?
Matthäus
Pelè
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo
Maldini
Platini
Deschamps
Der Bomber

Stobzilla · 26th March 2008, 23:30

Ian Rush ?

FlawlessThaw · 26th March 2008, 23:31

Phil Neal

Scholesy · 26th March 2008, 23:33

Djimi Traore

CockneyHammer · 26th March 2008, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERICSAGOD

Bobby Charlton

Won the League, FA Cup, European Cup and World Cup.

Surely you mean Bobby Moore?

World Cup (Captain)
European Cup winners cup
FA Cup Winner
Footballer Of The Year
World Cup Player Of Players
West Ham Player Of The Year - 1961, 1963, 1968, 1970
BBC Sports Personality Of The Year
Awarded the O.B.E
UEFA Jubilee Award
World Cup All-Star Team
Recieved 108 caps in only 11 years (thats 17 less than Shilton managed in 20 years and 2 more than Charlton managed in 12 years)
He is the most capped outfield player in English football

Shotgun raisin · 26th March 2008, 23:49

Nicolas Anelka

sincher · 26th March 2008, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Surely you mean Bobby Moore?

World Cup (Captain)
European Cup winners cup
FA Cup Winner
Footballer Of The Year
World Cup Player Of Players
West Ham Player Of The Year - 1961, 1963, 1968, 1970
BBC Sports Personality Of The Year
Awarded the O.B.E
UEFA Jubilee Award
World Cup All-Star Team
Recieved 108 caps in only 11 years (thats 17 less than Shilton managed in 20 years and 2 more than Charlton managed in 12 years)
He is the most capped outfield player in English football

Most of those are the same. Some of them are pointless. West Ham player of the year?

Never won the league. Never won the European Cup.

CockneyHammer · 27th March 2008, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sincher

Most of those are the same. Some of them are pointless. West Ham player of the year?

Never won the league. Never won the European Cup.

Name me just one more player, only one, to have Captained the senior England team to a World Cup win

Just one........ Seeing as the World Cup is the biggest footballing trophy in the World it wasn't a small achievement

I'll give you a start;

These are the only players to Captain a world cup winninng team

Carlos Alberto Torres
Franz Beckenbauer
Hilderaldo Bellini
Cafu
Fabio Cannavaro
Gianpiero Combi
Didier Deschamps
Dunga
Diego Maradona
Lothar Matthäus
Mauro Ramos
Giuseppe Meazza
Bobby Moore
José Nasazzi
Daniel Passarella
Obdulio Varela
Fritz Walter
Dino Zoff

Just point out where the other english men are on that list

sincher · 27th March 2008, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Name me just one more player, only one, to have Captained the senior England team to a World Cup win

Duh - obviously only one person has done that, you great twazzock. Does that make him the most successful player of all-time? No.

CockneyHammer · 27th March 2008, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sincher

Duh - obviously only one person has done that, you great twazzock. Does that make him the most successful player of all-time? No.

I didn't say it did, of course everyone knows the answer to who is the most sucessful player of all time, it's Pele

My reply about Bobby Moore was put there as someone had decided to put down Bobby Charlton as the most sucessful when it is clear to any non-united fan that Bobby Moore was by far greater. It's just one of those sentiments that United fans can't get their head around.

FlawlessThaw · 27th March 2008, 00:17

It's a bit like saying Dunga is far more successful than Pele that argument does.

Wes · 27th March 2008, 00:21

I'd go with Maldini from the last while - 1990's.

Maradonna, as always, is imo the best ever player.

Suedesi · 27th March 2008, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Treble Reds

You sure? I thought he won quite a bit actually, especially Serie A's.

I guess he's won more scudetto's than I thought. 7. He was blessed to be in Milan's best team ever from an early age, but I feel he was in Baresi's shadow for a loooooong time. He truly came into his own (i.e. a leader on the pitch) around 96-ish, but still picked a few scudettos along the way.

Guess I was wrong.

Suedesi · 27th March 2008, 00:50

Then again Pele won three world cups and scored over a thousand goals. I'm sure he's picked up a billion Brazilian championships, as he was never allowed to play in Europe by the govt.

ralphie88 · 27th March 2008, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Or maybe Steven Gerrard.

Yeah, show us your League medals Stevie. And then all the trophies you won with England.

Fortitude · 27th March 2008, 01:36

'Paco' Gento is the only player in history to have 6 European Cups. He has 12 Spanish Primera divison titles, two Copa del Reys, two Latin cups, an Intercontinental cup and European Championship to his name. He's the most decorated European to have played domestically.

Di Stefano has 5, but no world cup, but a host of league titles in South America as well. He's the most decorated player across the Continents.

Pele:

World Cup: 1958, 1962, 1970
South American Championship beaten finalist: 1959
Copa Libertatores: 1962, 1963
Intercontinental Cup: 1962, 1963
Taca do Brasil: 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965
Sao Paulo State Champion: 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1973
Torneio Rio-Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963
Torneio Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963, 1964
Torneio Roberto Gomez Pedrosa: 1968
U.S. Champion (NASL): 1977
* = did not play in final.
** = winning the championship in the following tournaments and time frame was counted:
1957-1958 Rio-Sao Paulo
1959-1966 Taca do Brasil,
1967-1970 Roberto Gomez,
1971-1974 Brasileiro,
1975-1977 NASL.

Take that as you want to. He's the most decorated player at International level for certain. His exploits in his homeland with state championships, etc, makes it hard to compare him to the simplicity of the European leagues, any road, he's the most decorated player in South American history.

In modern times no one comes close to Paolo Maldini, but he's behind all three of the aformentioned.

Beckenbauer, Muller, Dalglish, Phil Neal and Ryan Giggs also have a stack of titles to their names, but priority must surely go to European Cups etc, which would put the first four ahead of Giggsy by some margin.

Johnno · 27th March 2008, 01:43

Maradonna won the World Cup on his own in 1986.
Also guided a shit club like Napoli to the Italian title a few times.

REd FUn DevIl · 27th March 2008, 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERICSAGOD

Bobby Charlton

Won the League, FA Cup, European Cup and World Cup.

Now that a career. Won everything possible. Roberto Carlos is a good example.

Maldini won everything except the World Cup.

Fat Ronaldo won everything except the Champions League (remember last season didnt count as he was cup tied for Milan)

Giggs never played on a World Cup and thats horrible for a player that have won everything on his football club.

Pat_Mustard · 27th March 2008, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

My reply about Bobby Moore was put there as someone had decided to put down Bobby Charlton as the most sucessful when it is clear to any non-united fan that Bobby Moore was by far greater. It's just one of those sentiments that United fans can't get their head around.

How on earth was Bobby Moore more successful than Bobby Charlton?

They've both won the World Cup and the FA Cup, but Chalrton's won 3 league titles. His winning the European Cup trumps Moore winning the Cup Winner's Cup. Individually, they've both won Footballer of the Year, but Charlton's won the Ballon d'Or as well.

So I assume you're basing this on Moore winning two more England caps, or on him captaining the WC winning side while Charlton's paltry contribution was only 3 goals from midfield? Or maybe its a lack of West Ham Player of the Year awards that taints Charlton's CV so badly?

Pat_Mustard · 27th March 2008, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortitude

'Paco' Gento is the only player in history to have 6 European Cups. He has 12 Spanish Primera divison titles, two Copa del Reys, two Latin cups, an Intercontinental cup and European Championship to his name. He's the most decorated European to have played domestically.

Di Stefano has 5, but no world cup, but a host of league titles in South America as well. He's the most decorated player across the Continents.

Pele:

World Cup: 1958, 1962, 1970
South American Championship beaten finalist: 1959
Copa Libertatores: 1962, 1963
Intercontinental Cup: 1962, 1963
Taca do Brasil: 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965
Sao Paulo State Champion: 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1973
Torneio Rio-Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963
Torneio Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963, 1964
Torneio Roberto Gomez Pedrosa: 1968
U.S. Champion (NASL): 1977
* = did not play in final.
** = winning the championship in the following tournaments and time frame was counted:
1957-1958 Rio-Sao Paulo
1959-1966 Taca do Brasil,
1967-1970 Roberto Gomez,
1971-1974 Brasileiro,
1975-1977 NASL.

Take that as you want to. He's the most decorated player at International level for certain. His exploits in his homeland with state championships, etc, makes it hard to compare him to the simplicity of the European leagues, any road, he's the most decorated player in South American history.

In modern times no one comes close to Paolo Maldini, but he's behind all three of the aformentioned.

Beckenbauer, Muller, Dalglish, Phil Neal and Ryan Giggs also have a stack of titles to their names, but priority must surely go to European Cups etc, which would put the first four ahead of Giggsy by some margin.

Great post mate.

Wittmann45 · 27th March 2008, 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortitude

'Paco' Gento is the only player in history to have 6 European Cups. He has 12 Spanish Primera divison titles, two Copa del Reys, two Latin cups, an Intercontinental cup and European Championship to his name. He's the most decorated European to have played domestically.

Insane, did you ever play a trophyless season at Madrid?

B9 from YNWA · 27th March 2008, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortitude

'Paco' Gento is the only player in history to have 6 European Cups. He has 12 Spanish Primera divison titles, two Copa del Reys, two Latin cups, an Intercontinental cup and European Championship to his name. He's the most decorated European to have played domestically.

Di Stefano has 5, but no world cup, but a host of league titles in South America as well. He's the most decorated player across the Continents.

Pele:

World Cup: 1958, 1962, 1970
South American Championship beaten finalist: 1959
Copa Libertatores: 1962, 1963
Intercontinental Cup: 1962, 1963
Taca do Brasil: 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965
Sao Paulo State Champion: 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1973
Torneio Rio-Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963
Torneio Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963, 1964
Torneio Roberto Gomez Pedrosa: 1968
U.S. Champion (NASL): 1977
* = did not play in final.
** = winning the championship in the following tournaments and time frame was counted:
1957-1958 Rio-Sao Paulo
1959-1966 Taca do Brasil,
1967-1970 Roberto Gomez,
1971-1974 Brasileiro,
1975-1977 NASL.

Take that as you want to. He's the most decorated player at International level for certain. His exploits in his homeland with state championships, etc, makes it hard to compare him to the simplicity of the European leagues, any road, he's the most decorated player in South American history.

In modern times no one comes close to Paolo Maldini, but he's behind all three of the aformentioned.

Beckenbauer, Muller, Dalglish, Phil Neal and Ryan Giggs also have a stack of titles to their names, but priority must surely go to European Cups etc, which would put the first four ahead of Giggsy by some margin.

Nice one.

Zidane has to be mentioned as well though. Won everything on club and international level.

Del Piero is another who must stack an impressive cabinet by now.

Murphman · 27th March 2008, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Surely you mean Bobby Moore?

World Cup (Captain)
European Cup winners cup
FA Cup Winner
Footballer Of The Year
World Cup Player Of Players
West Ham Player Of The Year - 1961, 1963, 1968, 1970
BBC Sports Personality Of The Year
Awarded the O.B.E
UEFA Jubilee Award
World Cup All-Star Team
Recieved 108 caps in only 11 years (thats 17 less than Shilton managed in 20 years and 2 more than Charlton managed in 12 years)
He is the most capped outfield player in English football

To be fair to Shilton he shared the job with Clemence for years and would have got over 150 caps if Clem hadn't been around at the time.

As a neutral although Bobby Moore won less than Bobby Charlton I'd put him ahead in the immortality stakes but only by a short head, both were amongst the greatest players I ever saw, if somebody put them both into an all time X1 they'd get no argument from me.

Collina · 27th March 2008, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat_Mustard

How on earth was Bobby Moore more successful than Bobby Charlton?

They've both won the World Cup and the FA Cup, but Chalrton's won 3 league titles. His winning the European Cup trumps Moore winning the Cup Winner's Cup. Individually, they've both won Footballer of the Year, but Charlton's won the Ballon d'Or as well.

So I assume you're basing this on Moore winning two more England caps, or on him captaining the WC winning side while Charlton's paltry contribution was only 3 goals from midfield? Or maybe its a lack of West Ham Player of the Year awards that taints Charlton's CV so badly?

Good post.

Dippersripper · 27th March 2008, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphman

To be fair to Shilton he shared the job with Clemence for years and would have got over 150 caps if Clem hadn't been around at the time.

As a neutral although Bobby Moore won less than Bobby Charlton I'd put him ahead in the immortality stakes but only by a short head, both were amongst the greatest players I ever saw, if somebody put them both into an all time X1 they'd get no argument from me.

Well said

surf · 27th March 2008, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelness

He never played in Europe. This is also the reason why I don't think he is the greatest of all time.

He scored 2 goals, one of which is legendary, in the world cup final in Sweden.

crappycraperson · 27th March 2008, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Surely you mean Bobby Moore?

World Cup (Captain)
European Cup winners cup
FA Cup Winner
Footballer Of The Year
World Cup Player Of Players
West Ham Player Of The Year - 1961, 1963, 1968, 1970
BBC Sports Personality Of The Year
Awarded the O.B.E
UEFA Jubilee Award
World Cup All-Star Team
Recieved 108 caps in only 11 years (thats 17 less than Shilton managed in 20 years and 2 more than Charlton managed in 12 years)
He is the most capped outfield player in English football

WHU player of the year

Charlton won more than Moore, that much is clear to anyone with common sense.

vanthaman · 27th March 2008, 22:55

Igor Biscan

26th March 2008, 23:23	#41 (permalink)
ManRyan2 Trainee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 95	Some thoughts : Cruyff ? Matthäus Pelè Beckenbauer Ronaldo Maldini Platini Deschamps Der Bomber

26th March 2008, 23:30	#42 (permalink)
Stobzilla Official Team Perv Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Markus.Land - Where Markus logic prevails. Posts: 3,487	Ian Rush ?

26th March 2008, 23:31	#43 (permalink)
FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 8,515	Phil Neal

26th March 2008, 23:33	#44 (permalink)
Scholesy biggest idiotic gay in the village Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lets all laugh at Terry Posts: 3,480	Djimi Traore

26th March 2008, 23:49	#46 (permalink)
Shotgun raisin Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: the path of the Mean Posts: 2,311	Nicolas Anelka

27th March 2008, 00:17	#51 (permalink)
FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 8,515	It's a bit like saying Dunga is far more successful than Pele that argument does.

27th March 2008, 00:21	#52 (permalink)
Wes Brown is no God Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dublin, in the Irish Republic Posts: 7,104	I'd go with Maldini from the last while - 1990's. Maradonna, as always, is imo the best ever player.

27th March 2008, 00:50	#54 (permalink)
Suedesi First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New York City Posts: 8,929	Then again Pele won three world cups and scored over a thousand goals. I'm sure he's picked up a billion Brazilian championships, as he was never allowed to play in Europe by the govt.

27th March 2008, 01:36	#56 (permalink)
Fortitude Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Inside right Posts: 2,292	'Paco' Gento is the only player in history to have 6 European Cups. He has 12 Spanish Primera divison titles, two Copa del Reys, two Latin cups, an Intercontinental cup and European Championship to his name. He's the most decorated European to have played domestically. Di Stefano has 5, but no world cup, but a host of league titles in South America as well. He's the most decorated player across the Continents. Pele: World Cup: 1958, 1962, 1970 South American Championship beaten finalist: 1959 Copa Libertatores: 1962, 1963 Intercontinental Cup: 1962, 1963 Taca do Brasil: 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965 Sao Paulo State Champion: 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1973 Torneio Rio-Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963 Torneio Sao Paulo: 1959, 1963, 1964 Torneio Roberto Gomez Pedrosa: 1968 U.S. Champion (NASL): 1977 * = did not play in final. ** = winning the championship in the following tournaments and time frame was counted: 1957-1958 Rio-Sao Paulo 1959-1966 Taca do Brasil, 1967-1970 Roberto Gomez, 1971-1974 Brasileiro, 1975-1977 NASL. Take that as you want to. He's the most decorated player at International level for certain. His exploits in his homeland with state championships, etc, makes it hard to compare him to the simplicity of the European leagues, any road, he's the most decorated player in South American history. In modern times no one comes close to Paolo Maldini, but he's behind all three of the aformentioned. Beckenbauer, Muller, Dalglish, Phil Neal and Ryan Giggs also have a stack of titles to their names, but priority must surely go to European Cups etc, which would put the first four ahead of Giggsy by some margin.

27th March 2008, 01:43	#57 (permalink)
Johnno Destroyer of bullies Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 5,766	Maradonna won the World Cup on his own in 1986. Also guided a shit club like Napoli to the Italian title a few times.

27th March 2008, 22:55	#68 (permalink)
vanthaman Winner of the RedCafe Mickey Mouse Cup 2006 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: in front of laptop Posts: 11,253	Igor Biscan