Mourinho | Leaving Real Madrid - confirmed.

Instant Karma · 29th January 2012, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick1991

Only the third Scottish team to win a European trophy. Couple of Scottish cups etc.

Nothing to be sneered at and certainly suggests that he 'couldn't win a Champions League' with that Porto team (because they are small, presumably) as a load of bollix.

Slovan Bratislava beat Barca to win the Cup winners cup and Magdeburg beat Milan to win the trophy - those achievements should be considered the same as winning the Champions league with Porto too

Mick1991 · 29th January 2012, 18:10

Just going to disregard everything else then as well? Oh and who exactly did Porto beat in the Champions League final? Since you seem like you just want to judge the achievement on one game.

Edit: Feel bad now because it seems like I'm dwarfing Porto's achievement, which isn't what I'm trying to do. Magnificent achievement by Porto, but does one need such inflammatory statements to accompany great achievement?

Ferguson has done it with a smaller team and proved his mettle. I can only guess that you are wumming and I certainly won't be one to fall for it.

barros · 29th January 2012, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky_Hughes

To suggest no one else could keep united winning is ridiculous.

Add to that we dont have bottomless pits of cash like madrid and chelsea, and mourinhos transfers flop about 40% of the time......he is not some manegerial god, just a very good manager who has done well in very favourable positions.

Porto: won the league with the biggest club in the country....although th CL win was a hell of an achievement, granted.

Chelsea: won trophies with an unlimited budget, bought some great playrs and some utter shit.

Inter: wonthe league with a side that had won it three times on the trot already, admittedly again won the cl against the odds

Madrid: before he went there they were the second best side in the country, spent a fortune and they are still the second best team in the country.

Add to this the man is a monumental bellend of john terry proportions and I can honestly say id rather we brought big ron back before jose.

Nope, second biggest maybe but not sure if Sporting still the second, been Benfica the biggest.

Snow · 29th January 2012, 19:39

He won the UEFA Cup first and the CL a year later and they league both seasons.

He's won a cup every year since 2003 an won the manager of the year in 6 of the previous 8 seasons. If he wins the league it would make it 7 in last 9 seasons.

He's basically always a success. I don't get how people can criticize his achievements. That's the one thing you can't.

njred · 29th January 2012, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nearco

Any move apart from United is a downward one from Madrid.

Why is that ? It's not like united are any good in Europe.

Sparky_Hughes · 29th January 2012, 19:46

I wonder where the arrogant little gobshite would be today if the referee had not been a totally incompetent asshat one fatefull OT wed evening.....

Lance Uppercut · 29th January 2012, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by njred

Why is that ? It's not like united are any good in Europe.

Can't keep away, can you, freak?

Instant Karma · 29th January 2012, 19:50

Comparing Jose and SAF is like comparing Messi and Giggs. Both are phenomenal but one is just a tad better even though the ability to sustain that level over decades is yet to be proven.

njred · 29th January 2012, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick1991

That Inter squad was terrific. Don't talk shite, what Ferguson did with Aberdeen is nothing short of miraculous and matches if not exceeds Mourinho's exploits with Porto.

OMG please don't compare saf with Mourinho. Mourhino is the the best mgr bar none right now.

Sparky_Hughes · 29th January 2012, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Comparing Jose and SAF is like comparing Messi and Giggs. Both are phenomenal but one is just a tad better even though the ability to sustain that level over decades is yet to be proven.

Yes, SAF is better.

By far.

africanspur · 29th January 2012, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow

He won the UEFA Cup first and the CL a year later and they league both seasons.

He's won a cup every year since 2003 an won the manager of the year in 6 of the previous 8 seasons. If he wins the league it would make it 7 in last 9 seasons.

He's basically always a success. I don't get how people can criticize his achievements. That's the one thing you can't.

Who has criticised his achievements?

Sparky_Hughes · 29th January 2012, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by njred

OMG please don't compare saf with Mourinho. Mourhino is the the best mgr bar none right now.

Yes but as you choose to support liverpool your judgement has already been proven to be suspect.

Instant Karma · 29th January 2012, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky_Hughes

Yes, SAF is better.

By far.

Whoosh...

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by njred

OMG please don't compare saf with Mourinho. Mourhino is the the best mgr bar none right now.

Apart from Dalglish and Benitez.

United Fan 101 · 29th January 2012, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Comparing Jose and SAF is like comparing Messi and Giggs. Both are phenomenal but one is just a tad better even though the ability to sustain that level over decades is yet to be proven.

If you're rating Mourinho above Sir Alex then you're an absolute joke. The cheek of people.

africanspur · 29th January 2012, 19:57

Ferguson>>>>>>Mourinho. When Mourinho stops jumping ship every few seasons and starts building the kind of legacy that Ferguson has built, they they can be compared.

Ferguson has proven that he can do the kind of thing Mourinho did with Porto. Mourinho is yet to prove that he can do the kind of thing Ferguson has done with Man utd.

Ixion · 29th January 2012, 19:59

Mourinho took over Chelsea at exactly the right time to take advantage of Abramovic's money, went to Inter when they were already Italian champions and went to Madrid after they had spent 80 million on the most expensive player in history and a host of others. Hes never had to go to a club and overhaul things and start from square one, hes been fairly lucky where and when he has taken over a club. I don't see how he can be compared to Sir Alex.

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

Ferguson>>>>>>Mourinho. When Mourinho stops jumping ship every few seasons and starts building the kind of legacy that Ferguson has built, they they can be compared.

Ferguson has proven that he can do the kind of thing Mourinho did with Porto. Mourinho is yet to prove that he can do the kind of thing Ferguson has done with Man utd.

This.

Dominating one of the strongest leagues in the world for 20 years is a far superior achievement to anything Mourinho has done, and you point about building a legacy is fair too. A manager is there to build a team for years and then, in a perfect world, rebuild it when the time comes. Mourinho hasn't done it yet.

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixion

Mourinho took over Chelsea at exactly the right time to take advantage of Abramovic's money, went to Inter when they were already Italian champions and went to Madrid after they had spent 80 million on the most expensive player in history and a host of others. Hes never had to go to a club and overhaul things and start from square one, hes been fairly lucky where and when he has taken over a club. I don't see how he can be compared to Sir Alex.

He's done well in hs short term project at both Chelsea and Inter, yet to deliver for Real but he's on a good way. It remains to be seen if he can work long term. Only when he prove that he does we will be able to compare him to Ferguson.

africanspur · 29th January 2012, 20:06

Do to Spurs what Ferguson did to Man utd and then we'll start talking.

Cheesy · 29th January 2012, 20:09

I think he may be able to work long term, however I can't see that happening at Real Madrid. They have a board which will constantly put their manager under pressure, and even if Mourinho wants to stay, he may find himself in a situation where they have a bad season and he no longer has a say in a manager. Some would say that you can't sack him, but they did sack Del Bosque after all of his success.

Mourinho's view on the managerial game does seem to have changed over the past few years, though. He was once a manager who had a vision of going to many of the major leagues and winning trophies. There's a good chance that he'll achieve his goal of winning the three of Premier League, Serie A and La Liga by the end of this season. I think he has changed his mind recently though. He now wants to find himself a club that he can stay at for a relatively long period of time, and build up a legacy there.

Instant Karma · 29th January 2012, 20:09

Ryan Giggs tearing defences apart for 20 yrs in one of the strongest leagues is perhaps a far superior achievement than what Messi has done too

Bryan_Munich · 29th January 2012, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Ryan Giggs tearing defences apart for 20 yrs in one of the strongest leagues is perhaps a far superior achievement than what Messi has done too

Completely different.

crappycraperson · 29th January 2012, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Ryan Giggs tearing defences apart for 20 yrs in one of the strongest leagues is perhaps a far superior achievement than what Messi has done too

Are you suggesting Jose's achievements are ahead of Fergie's?

Lance Uppercut · 29th January 2012, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Ryan Giggs tearing defences apart for 20 yrs in one of the strongest leagues is perhaps a far superior achievement than what Messi has done too

Your analogy is retarded. Don't let that deter you, though.

Raoul · 29th January 2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixion

Mourinho took over Chelsea at exactly the right time to take advantage of Abramovic's money, went to Inter when they were already Italian champions and went to Madrid after they had spent 80 million on the most expensive player in history and a host of others. Hes never had to go to a club and overhaul things and start from square one, hes been fairly lucky where and when he has taken over a club. I don't see how he can be compared to Sir Alex.

You're leaving out the important bits - namely that Mourinho took each of the clubs you mentioned to the next level whereas they had floundered to do so before he arrived. That's not to mention winning the CL with a relatively minnowish side like Porto. So given that he's won 6 leagues, 4 FA Cup equivalent trophies, and 2 CLs, he hasn't done too badly for himself.

africanspur · 29th January 2012, 20:14

The point is, that Ferguson has managed to match the best that Mourinho has done. Probably the most amazing thing he has done so far is the CL win with Porto. Ferguson has a comparison to that. Mourinho cannot compete with his longevity, legacy building or pushing what was at the time a midtable club to domination of the league.

Messi has reached the highest levels that Giggs ever reached and surpassed them by a huge amount.

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Ryan Giggs tearing defences apart for 20 yrs in one of the strongest leagues is perhaps a far superior achievement than what Messi has done too

Different things are expected of managers and players, and on top of that Mourinho hasn't done anything that Ferguson hasn't achieved. Ferguson has won every single trophy he could have possibly won. I don't remember Giggs scoring 40+ in a season let alone three in a row.

Instant Karma · 29th January 2012, 20:22

Head to Head record between Jose and SAF:

Played 13; Jose 6 wins; SAF 2 wins; Draws 5;

togg · 29th January 2012, 20:23

I think Ferguson recognises there is something akin to himself in Mourinho, but I truly believe that Fergie also believes he's not the right guy for united. To be honest I don't think Fergie the board or anyone knows who would be right, because its a no win situation. Its going to be the hardest bloody decision that united have taken since Busby left and we all know what happened after that. Who the bloody hell would want to take over a club with this much success? I think the board will surprise us and go with someone like Moyes...someone who doesn't have the kudos, but has the potential to be a great manager.

Lance Uppercut · 29th January 2012, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Head to Head record between Jose and SAF:

Played 13; Jose 6 wins; SAF 2 wins; Draws 5;

Oh, well that proves it then.

Ixion · 29th January 2012, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Head to Head record between Jose and SAF:

Played 13; Jose 6 wins; SAF 2 wins; Draws 5;

Meaningless. Wenger had a better head-to-head against Sir Alex for a few years after he first arrived and now Sir Alex dominates. Jose's record is off the back of Abramovic's billions and a United side in transition.

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Head to Head record between Jose and SAF:

Played 13; Jose 6 wins; SAF 2 wins; Draws 5;

Proves absolutely nothing.

africanspur · 29th January 2012, 20:25

Head to head record for Redknapp vs Wenger:

Redknapp: 3, draws: 3, Wenger: 1

That's in the league. What's your point?

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixion

Meaningless. Wenger had a better head-to-head against Sir Alex for a few years after he first arrived and now Sir Alex dominates. Jose's record is off the back of Abramovic's billions and a United side in transition.

Exactly. Our 2004-05 and 2005-06 sides were clearly not good enough but as soon as Ferguson completed a new side we won the league in 2006-07, ahead of Mourinho's Chelsea themselves.

Bryan_Munich · 29th January 2012, 20:27

Wenger wins on tax returns though.

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

Head to head record for Redknapp vs Wenger:

Redknapp: 3, draws: 3, Wenger: 1

That's in the league. What's your point?

Head to head between Pardew and Ferguson would be interesting.

Cheesy · 29th January 2012, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instant Karma

Head to Head record between Jose and SAF:

Played 13; Jose 6 wins; SAF 2 wins; Draws 5;

You're basically providing us with a portfolio of things not to use in a managerial debate.

Sarni · 29th January 2012, 20:30

Head to head between Guardiola amd Mourinho would also basically prove that Mourinho is a terrible manager.

Instant Karma · 29th January 2012, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

Ferguson has won every single trophy he could have possibly won. I don't remember Giggs scoring 40+ in a season let alone three in a row.

Staying with just one of the top leagues limits the possibility of winning against different challenges - the tactics, the mentality and skills needed to win the league are different in England, Italy and Spain.

Jose not losing a home league game for the best part of 10 managerial years is the equivalent of scoring 40+ goals in ten seasons.

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29th January 2012, 18:10	#282 (permalink)
Mick1991 First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 6,208	Just going to disregard everything else then as well? Oh and who exactly did Porto beat in the Champions League final? Since you seem like you just want to judge the achievement on one game. Edit: Feel bad now because it seems like I'm dwarfing Porto's achievement, which isn't what I'm trying to do. Magnificent achievement by Porto, but does one need such inflammatory statements to accompany great achievement? Ferguson has done it with a smaller team and proved his mettle. I can only guess that you are wumming and I certainly won't be one to fall for it.

29th January 2012, 19:39	#284 (permalink)
Snow First Team Regular Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: I like turtles Posts: 16,864	He won the UEFA Cup first and the CL a year later and they league both seasons. He's won a cup every year since 2003 an won the manager of the year in 6 of the previous 8 seasons. If he wins the league it would make it 7 in last 9 seasons. He's basically always a success. I don't get how people can criticize his achievements. That's the one thing you can't.

29th January 2012, 19:46	#286 (permalink)
Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: knee deep in the despair of others and loving it Posts: 6,484	I wonder where the arrogant little gobshite would be today if the referee had not been a totally incompetent asshat one fatefull OT wed evening.....

29th January 2012, 19:50	#288 (permalink)
Instant Karma Closet Gooner Join Date: May 2006 Location: Fletchcafe - Population: 5 (May 2006) Posts: 7,138	Comparing Jose and SAF is like comparing Messi and Giggs. Both are phenomenal but one is just a tad better even though the ability to sustain that level over decades is yet to be proven.

29th January 2012, 19:57	#296 (permalink)
africanspur Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,025	Ferguson>>>>>>Mourinho. When Mourinho stops jumping ship every few seasons and starts building the kind of legacy that Ferguson has built, they they can be compared. Ferguson has proven that he can do the kind of thing Mourinho did with Porto. Mourinho is yet to prove that he can do the kind of thing Ferguson has done with Man utd.

29th January 2012, 19:59	#297 (permalink)
Ixion First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,929	Mourinho took over Chelsea at exactly the right time to take advantage of Abramovic's money, went to Inter when they were already Italian champions and went to Madrid after they had spent 80 million on the most expensive player in history and a host of others. Hes never had to go to a club and overhaul things and start from square one, hes been fairly lucky where and when he has taken over a club. I don't see how he can be compared to Sir Alex.

29th January 2012, 20:06	#300 (permalink)
africanspur Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,025	Do to Spurs what Ferguson did to Man utd and then we'll start talking.

29th January 2012, 20:09	#301 (permalink)
Cheesy Smells Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 9,099	I think he may be able to work long term, however I can't see that happening at Real Madrid. They have a board which will constantly put their manager under pressure, and even if Mourinho wants to stay, he may find himself in a situation where they have a bad season and he no longer has a say in a manager. Some would say that you can't sack him, but they did sack Del Bosque after all of his success. Mourinho's view on the managerial game does seem to have changed over the past few years, though. He was once a manager who had a vision of going to many of the major leagues and winning trophies. There's a good chance that he'll achieve his goal of winning the three of Premier League, Serie A and La Liga by the end of this season. I think he has changed his mind recently though. He now wants to find himself a club that he can stay at for a relatively long period of time, and build up a legacy there.

29th January 2012, 20:09	#302 (permalink)
Instant Karma Closet Gooner Join Date: May 2006 Location: Fletchcafe - Population: 5 (May 2006) Posts: 7,138	Ryan Giggs tearing defences apart for 20 yrs in one of the strongest leagues is perhaps a far superior achievement than what Messi has done too

29th January 2012, 20:14	#307 (permalink)
africanspur Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,025	The point is, that Ferguson has managed to match the best that Mourinho has done. Probably the most amazing thing he has done so far is the CL win with Porto. Ferguson has a comparison to that. Mourinho cannot compete with his longevity, legacy building or pushing what was at the time a midtable club to domination of the league. Messi has reached the highest levels that Giggs ever reached and surpassed them by a huge amount.

29th January 2012, 20:22	#309 (permalink)
Instant Karma Closet Gooner Join Date: May 2006 Location: Fletchcafe - Population: 5 (May 2006) Posts: 7,138	Head to Head record between Jose and SAF: Played 13; Jose 6 wins; SAF 2 wins; Draws 5;

29th January 2012, 20:23	#310 (permalink)
togg Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mike Phelan is a Looner Posts: 3,018	I think Ferguson recognises there is something akin to himself in Mourinho, but I truly believe that Fergie also believes he's not the right guy for united. To be honest I don't think Fergie the board or anyone knows who would be right, because its a no win situation. Its going to be the hardest bloody decision that united have taken since Busby left and we all know what happened after that. Who the bloody hell would want to take over a club with this much success? I think the board will surprise us and go with someone like Moyes...someone who doesn't have the kudos, but has the potential to be a great manager.

29th January 2012, 20:25	#314 (permalink)
africanspur Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,025	Head to head record for Redknapp vs Wenger: Redknapp: 3, draws: 3, Wenger: 1 That's in the league. What's your point?

29th January 2012, 20:27	#316 (permalink)
Bryan_Munich Aka RichieRich12 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In Arsène We Rust Posts: 11,639	Wenger wins on tax returns though.

29th January 2012, 20:30	#319 (permalink)
Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan. Thinks hes intelligent though. Nutter Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Krakow Posts: 25,733	Head to head between Guardiola amd Mourinho would also basically prove that Mourinho is a terrible manager.