Rangers go into Administration | Dossier passed to police

noodlehair · 13th February 2012, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

so what are the various scenarios? Join the lowest tiers of the English league?

If Rangers really do go under (seems hard to believe that will happen), the worse case scenario, and not exactly that unrealistic, is that it spells the begining of the end for the Scottish League system being independent of England's...or at the very least Celtic and a few others abandoning it once the FA bow to pressure and give them the green light.

You can imagine the mess there too. The FA assess which level a new club should enter the League system at based on their current playing level, facilities, financial structure, etc. You'd have to presume Celtic would be quite high up, and then they'd have to take someon'e place. It'd probably end up in the courts.

holyland red · 13th February 2012, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

Pity it's not Liverpool but I'll take it

I'm sure you don'e mean that. The game needs its big clubs, and they don't come much bigger than Liverpool.

Anna_Livia · 13th February 2012, 15:34

Jim "Red Blue and" White looks sick as a dog on SSN. Poor Jim.

Randall Flagg · 13th February 2012, 15:34

Cant see them going under, even with a 10 point deduction they still finish 2nd

But where has the money gone? They spend very little on signings and from what I can tell their wage bill is not an insane amount.

They get large crowds and sell lots of merchandise too.

McLovin · 13th February 2012, 15:34

Does Gio now become a United supporter?

Get in.

Thick Numpty · 13th February 2012, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna_Livia

Our CEO reckons we won't. We released healthy interim results today (debt down by £2m) and have stand-alone plans for the nightmare/dream scenario.

Nonsense. Sky only pay the TV money to the Scottish League because they are guarenteed 4 Old Firm ties a season. Take those away, and where is the interest in the Scottish League? Who is going to pay millions of pounds a year to broadcast Celtc versus Falkirk or Dundee United? The clubs rely on each other, the only interest in that league is the Old Firm rivalry. Take one away and the other goes with it.

Red Dreams · 13th February 2012, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

If Rangers really do go under (seems hard to believe that will happen), the worse case scenario, and not exactly that unrealistic, is that it spells the begining of the end for the Scottish League system being independent of England's...or at the very least Celtic and a few others abandoning it once the FA bow to pressure and give them the green light.

You can imagine the mess there too. The FA assess which level a new club should enter the League system at based on their current playing level, facilities, financial structure, etc. You'd have to presume Celtic would be quite high up, and then they'd have to take someon'e place. It'd probably end up in the courts.

IF the Scottish teams are allowed to join the English league, can you imagine some of the travelling some of those teams will have to do?

I think eventually a return to the old North and South leagues if I remember correctly for the lowest two league may be the answer.

The whole thing is mind boggling and sad as much as I dislike Rangers.

noodlehair · 13th February 2012, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Flagg

Cant see them going under, even with a 10 point deduction they still finish 2nd

But where has the money gone? They spend very little on signings and from what I can tell their wage bill is not an insane amount.

They get large crowds and sell lots of merchandise too.

They've already run out of money to run the club with, and the taxman hasn't even asked for his £49m back yet.

They're fucked. The only realistic way out is by rescue, and Rangers Football Club isn't a very attractive prospect. There's no promised golden land of the Premier League for any propspective owners to launder themselves some benefit from.

Cheesy · 13th February 2012, 15:38

They did spend a lot of money. Back when they were winning 9 in a row and after that they spent a lot of money. It wasn't massive in comparison to some English clubs, but for the time then and for Scottish football, it was way too much.

Even in recent times, they have still bought. Despite the fact they've been skint for years, they've still be going out and making some signings, with Jelavic being an example.

Guy Incognito · 13th February 2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Flagg

Cant see them going under, even with a 10 point deduction they still finish 2nd

But where has the money gone? They spend very little on signings and from what I can tell their wage bill is not an insane amount.

They get large crowds and sell lots of merchandise too.

The majority of the income goes towards paying outstanding debts.

Regarding their business plan, no one knows for sure, not even the Rangers fans.

Sojiro · 13th February 2012, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Incognito

To be honest, no one knows for sure, not even the Rangers fans. Of course, some of the income goes towards paying outstanding debts.

I imagine some staff/board members are on a hefty wage packet too.

Anna_Livia · 13th February 2012, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

They've already run out of money to run the club with, and the taxman hasn't even asked for his £49m back yet.

They're fucked. The only realistic way out is by rescue, and Rangers Football Club isn't a very attractive prospect. There's no promised golden land of the Premier League for any propspective owners to launder themselves some benefit from.

They don't own anything excepot the stadium. And for years they cheated on their accounts, balancing the books by valuing that at a ludicrous amount (something like £80m i think) when no-one in their right mind would pay that for a football stadium because, well what do you do with it other than play football in it?

At least a decade of hubris and dishonesty is catching up with them here. The new guy in charge is a conman too. They're screwed. I'm loving it. Who worries about the hangover at the start of the party?

acnumber9 · 13th February 2012, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna_Livia

They don't own anything excepot the stadium. And for years they cheated on their accounts, balancing the books by valuing that at a ludicrous amount (something like £80m i think) when no-one in their right mind would pay that for a football stadium because, well what do you do with it other than play football in it?

At least a decade of hubris and dishonesty is catching up with them here. The new guy in charge is a conman too. They're screwed. I'm loving it. Who worries about the hangover at the start of the party?

Who celebrates their upcoming wake?

Pexbo · 13th February 2012, 15:47

Rival fans that are gloating about this don't have two braincells to rub together.

Personally, as much as I hate Liverpool (a rivalry that is equal on a football basis to the Celtic-Rangers rivalry but obviously does not contain the same religious sectarianism), I'd hate to see them going bust. Football is competition, it is rivalry.

How would you lot feel about the Premier League with highlights for us against Bolton, Aston Villa or Fulham?

The same thing is going to happen in the SPL. Celtic romp to victory each year and look forward to games against Motherwell, Hearts and Dundee. Imagine the Scottish FA then trying to sell the TV rights for that abroad?

This could kill the SPL altogether.

Thick Numpty · 13th February 2012, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Flagg

Cant see them going under, even with a 10 point deduction they still finish 2nd

But where has the money gone? They spend very little on signings and from what I can tell their wage bill is not an insane amount.

They get large crowds and sell lots of merchandise too.

They had a tax issue.

Worrying thing is, i've heard from a Rangers supporting mate who seems in the know that the tax issue they have has massive implications for other clubs in Britain. By all accounts they were using some form of legal loophole to avoid paying as much tax, and also to have their payers paid in what amounts to an interest free loan, loopholes that other big clubs use. Rangers are the first to fall foul of it, and are seemingly being used as a test case. If the Inland Revenue succeeds with the case against Rangers then they are set to go after the other big clubs too. No idea who exactly it will effect, because i've no idea what other clubs use these loopholes, but it could hit football in England hard too.

Oggmonster · 13th February 2012, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna_Livia

They don't own anything excepot the stadium. And for years they cheated on their accounts, balancing the books by valuing that at a ludicrous amount (something like £80m i think) when no-one in their right mind would pay that for a football stadium because, well what do you do with it other than play football in it?

At least a decade of hubris and dishonesty is catching up with them here. The new guy in charge is a conman too. They're screwed. I'm loving it. Who worries about the hangover at the start of the party?

I don't think as United fans it can really compare because there is so much competition that if City were to go bust (example..obviously never happen now) then there is still rivals, Chelsea, Liverpool,Arsenal and Tottenham could all step up and there still is competition though it'd be a shame to see a big rival go bust because that's t he excitement of football, games like City vs United, United vs Liverpool etc. You're losing a great game of football.

I can understand to an extent the giddyness of it all but it really does have potential to ruin the SPL, it's not a no mark team just disappearing. It's the biggest in the league (or 1 of 2.) I'm not suggesting it should be bailed out, they've fucked themselves over but if they don't get rescued by someone it will be awful for that league. Like has been said there's no attraction to an SPL club for the rich unless they're fans. I bet there's more money to be made with a midtable premiership club than there is one of the top two in the SPL.

Thick Numpty · 13th February 2012, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna_Livia

They don't own anything excepot the stadium. And for years they cheated on their accounts, balancing the books by valuing that at a ludicrous amount (something like £80m i think) when no-one in their right mind would pay that for a football stadium because, well what do you do with it other than play football in it?

At least a decade of hubris and dishonesty is catching up with them here. The new guy in charge is a conman too. They're screwed. I'm loving it. Who worries about the hangover at the start of the party?

You're a self confessed Celtic fan, cheering the potential demise of Rangers, somehow ignorant of the fact that if they go, you go too. Scottish Football IS the Old Firm. Without it Scottish Football has nothing. Don't be so naive.

And as for your "What do you do with a football stadium other than play in it?". It's property, it's land. You sell it to a developer who builds houses or apartments, or sticks a massive Tesco on it, like other clubs who have sold their ground have done. They don't still play football at Highbury do they?

Red Dreams · 13th February 2012, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Neviller

They had a tax issue.

Worrying thing is, i've heard form a Rangers supporting mate who seems in the know that the tax issue they have has massive implications for other clubs in Britain. By all accounts they were using some form of legal loophole to avoid paying as much tax, and also to have their payers paid in what amounts to an interest free loan, loopholes that other big clubs use. Rangers are the first to fall foul of it, and are seemingly being used as a test case. If the Inland Revenue succeeds with the case against Rangers then they are set to go after the other big clubs too. No idea who exactly it will effect, because i've no idea what other clubs use these loopholes, but it could hit football in England hard too.

looking at the bigger picture, assuming this is true, do you really see the IR taking on the national game?

My gut feel is the bigger clubs in England have some pretty darn good tax accountants who wont be putting their clients in trouble.

el eric · 13th February 2012, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Neviller

You're a self confessed Celtic fan, cheering the potential demise of Rangers, somehow ignorant of the fact that if they go, you go too. Scottish Football IS the Old Firm. Without it Scottish Football has nothing. Don't be so naive.

And as for your "What do you do with a football stadium other than play in it?". It's property, it's land. You sell it to a developer who builds houses or apartments, or sticks a massive Tesco on it, like other clubs who have sold their ground have done. They don't still play football at Highbury do they?

In fairness that amount of land in glasgow would only be worth a fraction of the value of highbury in London at the best of times and at the moment land isnt worth as much as it once was. Look at Valencia, building a new stadium on the strenght if the value of the old one only for it to all go tits up.

Cheesy · 13th February 2012, 15:58

Obviously there's the idea that Scottish football will die without Rangers, because a lot of the money comes from the Old Firm games and Celtic will dominate each year, but I'm not so sure.

Without Rangers, there will be a second spot available for whoever can get it. They may not qualify for the CL group stages, but even competing at all will help them to improve their finances. This probably involves the likes of Dundee United and Motherwell for anyone who's not so sure about who the most likely to come 2nd is.

Then, you've got the lack of Old Firm revenue that will come into Celtic. Obviously, whatever happens, Celtic are going to be the biggest club, however if this scenario happens, it gives others a chance to possibly even things about a bit, and at least compete with Celtic for the title.

noodlehair · 13th February 2012, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Neviller

They don't still play football at Highbury do they?

No, but what Arsenal gained through getting rid wouldn't have been enough to help Rangers.

golden_blunder · 13th February 2012, 16:02

interesting..any youngsters worth nicking?

RIP full time Scottish football. Welcome to part-time leagues!

stubie1234 · 13th February 2012, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

interesting..any youngsters worth nicking?

RIP full time Scottish football. Welcome to part-time leagues!

John Fleck?

If they go bump I think Celtic will have to leave Scottish Football.

Red Dreams · 13th February 2012, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesy

Obviously there's the idea that Scottish football will die without Rangers, because a lot of the money comes from the Old Firm games and Celtic will dominate each year, but I'm not so sure.

Without Rangers, there will be a second spot available for whoever can get it. They may not qualify for the CL group stages, but even competing at all will help them to improve their finances. This probably involves the likes of Dundee United and Motherwell for anyone who's not so sure about who the most likely to come 2nd is.

Then, you've got the lack of Old Firm revenue that will come into Celtic. Obviously, whatever happens, Celtic are going to be the biggest club, however if this scenario happens, it gives others a chance to possibly even things about a bit, and at least compete with Celtic for the title.

it will take an awful long time for any other club to take on Celtic. Celtic will be grabbing the best talent available.

If Celtic survive what happens to Rangers, they will become very stroong in the years to come.

Thick Numpty · 13th February 2012, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by el eric

In fairness that amount of land in glasgow would only be worth a fraction of the value of highbury in London at the best of times and at the moment land isnt worth as much as it once was. Look at Valencia, building a new stadium on the strenght if the value of the old one only for it to all go tits up.

I answered a question asking what do you do with a football ground other than play football on it. My answer was sell it. I didn't say how much it would be worth or whether it would help Rangers, I just answered the question. There are other things you can do with a football ground other than play football on it. Knocking it down and selling it being one.

Cheesy · 13th February 2012, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubie1234

John Fleck?

If they go bump I think Celtic will have to leave Scottish Football.

Nope, Fleck was overhyped as a youngster and hasn't delivered. Mince.

Team Brian GB · 13th February 2012, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

looking at the bigger picture, assuming this is true, do you really see the IR taking on the national game?

My gut feel is the bigger clubs in England have some pretty darn good tax accountants who wont be putting their clients in trouble.

They are the biggest jobsworths going.

Thick Numpty · 13th February 2012, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlehair

No, but what Arsenal gained through getting rid wouldn't have been enough to help Rangers.

I don't dispute that. As i've said, that post was in response to a question asking what can you do with a football ground other than play football on it. The answer is sell it. I've no idea what it is worth as retail land, or development property.

golden_blunder · 13th February 2012, 16:07

sign of the times. these things may have been overlooked in the past, but in the current climate the government is going to squeeze every penny they can get out of everyone..including football clubs

davisjw · 13th February 2012, 16:07

Funny how all the world's financial problems are seeing the domino affect and all of them are based on the same simple mistake: Borrowing more than you can afford. Then borrowing more to compensate for the first lend.

Piss poor management. Celtic and the SPL would not survive without Rangers.

All part of the plan to force the EPL to accept them?!

golden_blunder · 13th February 2012, 16:09

If the likes of Rangers cant substain themselves in Scottish football, I wonder how many of the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc will survive?

Team Brian GB · 13th February 2012, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Neviller

I don't dispute that. As i've said, that post was in response to a question asking what can you do with a football ground other than play football on it. The answer is sell it. I've no idea what it is worth as retail land, or development property.

You were right in what you said, what is more the land beneath Ibrox is probably worth more than that of any significant football ground in the country outside of London as Glasgow these days is a wealthy city.

The Scottish FA would give them Hampden Park on an ultra cheap lease if that is what it took for them to survive.

lem8sh · 13th February 2012, 16:14

My heart bleeds

green demon · 13th February 2012, 16:17

I could imagine that if Rangers do go completely tits up then there will be moves to create a Celtic League amalgamting the top divisions of Scotland with the two Irish leagues and maybe even the top Welsh teams (outside of the English system that is) like they do in rugby.

davisjw · 13th February 2012, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

it will take an awful long time for any other club to take on Celtic. Celtic will be grabbing the best talent available.

If Celtic survive what happens to Rangers, they will become very stroong in the years to come.

Disagree immensely on the Celtic point. Celtic may remain the strongest in the SPL and the divide between them and the rest will increase, but on the global stage they would become extremely weakened.

Celtic depends on Rangers and the revenue the two create for one another. Without Rangers, Celtic just would not have the same amount of money which means it cannot bring in top quality players. No one is going to play in bloody Scotland without big wages.

The only way the Scottish league will ever balance out is if Celtic followed Rangers into administration and the league had to reset itself.

Scotland won't let any of that happen though.

Cheesy · 13th February 2012, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by golden_blunder

If the likes of Rangers cant substain themselves in Scottish football, I wonder how many of the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc will survive?

Hearts are in massive trouble at the moment. They haven't been mentioned as much because they're not as big as Rangers, but they're threatened with liquidation as well.

The others aren't doing too bad financially at the moment. Hibs are pretty stable with the money they got when selling players like Scott Brown for a lot of money. Aberdeen aren't in trouble either as far as I know.

Red Dreams · 13th February 2012, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by davisjw

Funny how all the world's financial problems are seeing the domino affect and all of them are based on the same simple mistake: Borrowing more than you can afford. Then borrowing more to compensate for the first lend.

Piss poor management. Celtic and the SPL would not survive without Rangers.

All part of the plan to force the EPL to accept them?!

EPL?

The Old Firm would barely make it into the Championship if that.

lem8sh · 13th February 2012, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dreams

EPL?

The Old Firm would barely make it into the Championship if that.

I think they would really struggle to get promoted from the Championship for quite a few years.

Red Dreams · 13th February 2012, 16:27

never been a big fan of Scottish footbal, though I used to look for Celtic's results.

But if this is the tip of the iceberg, its bloody sad. Is not their league older than ours even?

Man Utd Mrs · 13th February 2012, 16:28

Wow, didn't see that coming !

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13th February 2012, 15:34	#43 (permalink)
Anna_Livia A jumped up pantry bhoy, who never knew his place. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fairing's Parish Posts: 1,739	Jim "Red Blue and" White looks sick as a dog on SSN. Poor Jim.

13th February 2012, 15:34	#44 (permalink)
Randall Flagg shitline Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 24,892	Cant see them going under, even with a 10 point deduction they still finish 2nd But where has the money gone? They spend very little on signings and from what I can tell their wage bill is not an insane amount. They get large crowds and sell lots of merchandise too.

13th February 2012, 15:34	#45 (permalink)
McLovin Bites pillows thinking of John Terry Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: You'd drink, too, if you knew the world half as well as I do Posts: 12,660	Does Gio now become a United supporter? Get in.

13th February 2012, 15:38	#49 (permalink)
Cheesy Smells Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 9,099	They did spend a lot of money. Back when they were winning 9 in a row and after that they spent a lot of money. It wasn't massive in comparison to some English clubs, but for the time then and for Scottish football, it was way too much. Even in recent times, they have still bought. Despite the fact they've been skint for years, they've still be going out and making some signings, with Jelavic being an example.

13th February 2012, 15:47	#54 (permalink)
Pexbo He'll have your eye out and listed on Amazon before you can say "ow!" Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: T'Internet Posts: 11,837	Rival fans that are gloating about this don't have two braincells to rub together. Personally, as much as I hate Liverpool (a rivalry that is equal on a football basis to the Celtic-Rangers rivalry but obviously does not contain the same religious sectarianism), I'd hate to see them going bust. Football is competition, it is rivalry. How would you lot feel about the Premier League with highlights for us against Bolton, Aston Villa or Fulham? The same thing is going to happen in the SPL. Celtic romp to victory each year and look forward to games against Motherwell, Hearts and Dundee. Imagine the Scottish FA then trying to sell the TV rights for that abroad? This could kill the SPL altogether.

13th February 2012, 15:58	#60 (permalink)
Cheesy Smells Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 9,099	Obviously there's the idea that Scottish football will die without Rangers, because a lot of the money comes from the Old Firm games and Celtic will dominate each year, but I'm not so sure. Without Rangers, there will be a second spot available for whoever can get it. They may not qualify for the CL group stages, but even competing at all will help them to improve their finances. This probably involves the likes of Dundee United and Motherwell for anyone who's not so sure about who the most likely to come 2nd is. Then, you've got the lack of Old Firm revenue that will come into Celtic. Obviously, whatever happens, Celtic are going to be the biggest club, however if this scenario happens, it gives others a chance to possibly even things about a bit, and at least compete with Celtic for the title.

13th February 2012, 16:02	#62 (permalink)
golden_blunder Back in action Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: In the shadows fighting e-crime Posts: 66,533	interesting..any youngsters worth nicking? RIP full time Scottish football. Welcome to part-time leagues!

13th February 2012, 16:07	#69 (permalink)
golden_blunder Back in action Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: In the shadows fighting e-crime Posts: 66,533	sign of the times. these things may have been overlooked in the past, but in the current climate the government is going to squeeze every penny they can get out of everyone..including football clubs

13th February 2012, 16:07	#70 (permalink)
davisjw First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,263	Funny how all the world's financial problems are seeing the domino affect and all of them are based on the same simple mistake: Borrowing more than you can afford. Then borrowing more to compensate for the first lend. Piss poor management. Celtic and the SPL would not survive without Rangers. All part of the plan to force the EPL to accept them?!

13th February 2012, 16:09	#71 (permalink)
golden_blunder Back in action Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: In the shadows fighting e-crime Posts: 66,533	If the likes of Rangers cant substain themselves in Scottish football, I wonder how many of the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc will survive?

13th February 2012, 16:14	#73 (permalink)
lem8sh Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery Posts: 2,963	My heart bleeds

13th February 2012, 16:17	#74 (permalink)
green demon Caf Nostradamous 2008 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near to nowhere, in the suburbs of Amnesia. Posts: 7,521	I could imagine that if Rangers do go completely tits up then there will be moves to create a Celtic League amalgamting the top divisions of Scotland with the two Irish leagues and maybe even the top Welsh teams (outside of the English system that is) like they do in rugby.

13th February 2012, 16:27	#79 (permalink)
Red Dreams First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: 20 I 13 Posts: 28,218	never been a big fan of Scottish footbal, though I used to look for Celtic's results. But if this is the tip of the iceberg, its bloody sad. Is not their league older than ours even?

13th February 2012, 16:28	#80 (permalink)
Man Utd Mrs Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: M.U.M. knows best. Posts: 26,228	Wow, didn't see that coming !