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Old 13th February 2012, 16:31   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lem8sh View Post
I think they would really struggle to get promoted from the Championship for quite a few years.
I agree. The standard of the SPL is not what it was, to say the least.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:32   #82 (permalink)
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EPL?

The Old Firm would barely make it into the Championship if that.
Both Celtic and Rangers are easily in the top 10 British clubs in terms of size (fanbase, ability to pull in revenue). Their squads are weak when compared to clubs of a similar size in England because of the differences between the two leagues. If they played in the English Premier League, there would be no reason why they wouldn't be able to sustain squads as strong as the likes of Liverpool or Spurs. Even when playing in a shitty, pointless league with tiny TV revenues they still manage to pull in revenues greater than all but a few PL clubs (at least, when they were playing in the CL).
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:33   #83 (permalink)
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I've yet to hear a compelling reason why a Scottish club should be allowed to play in the English leagues, let alone go straight into one of the top leagues.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:35   #84 (permalink)
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I've yet to hear a compelling reason why a Scottish club should be allowed to play in the English leagues, let alone go straight into one of the top leagues.
Welsh clubs playing in the English league?
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:37   #85 (permalink)
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Another example of a football club having lived beyond its means...
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:38   #86 (permalink)
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I've yet to hear a compelling reason why a Scottish club should be allowed to play in the English leagues, let alone go straight into one of the top leagues.
There's no reason why the UK shouldn't have a national league.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:39   #87 (permalink)
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Does anyone have an overview of the PL clubs, which ones are making a loss and which ones aren't?
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:41   #88 (permalink)
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There's no reason why the UK shouldn't have a national league.
Aside from the fact it would be under 4 different FA's. They couldn't even get together to create a Under 23 team for some tin pot competition.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:41   #89 (permalink)
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Oh my god.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:42   #90 (permalink)
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There's no reason why the UK shouldn't have a national league.
Tell that to Plymouth fans that would have to travel to Inverness and vice versa.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:42   #91 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Welsh clubs playing in the English league?
They joined the English league because there wasn't a professional league in Wales. Celtic and/or Rangers would be doing it to make more money.

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There's no reason why the UK shouldn't have a national league.
True, but that's a separate discussion. If that was to happen it should be for better reasons that maximising Celtic's revenue stream.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:44   #92 (permalink)
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There's no reason why the UK shouldn't have a national league.
Apart from:

1) Tradition
2) Rangers and Celtic joining the English league will kill the professional game in Scotland
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:46   #93 (permalink)
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Tell that to Plymouth fans that would have to travel to Inverness and vice versa.
Regional divisions? Two top divisions, and then begin to split it up... Then we start talking about the problems of how that affects League One and Two, but it could happen at actually help those teams.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:48   #94 (permalink)
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They joined the English league because there wasn't a professional league in Wales.
Plus the transport and railway network back in the day helped them to travel to English cities in order to play. Do note that teams like Cardiff and Swansea are there by invitation. If the FA wanted to kick them out, they could.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:49   #95 (permalink)
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The English league and the Premier League have no need for the Scottish teams. No benefits whatsoever.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:53   #96 (permalink)
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True, but that's a separate discussion. If that was to happen it should be for better reasons that maximising Celtic's revenue stream.
I think it would be good for the Premier League. Individual clubs mights not like it because of the increased competition for European places, but for football fans, the league would become more competitive.

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Tell that to Plymouth fans that would have to travel to Inverness and vice versa.
Britain is not Brazil or Russia.



The fans of clubs in the other geographically large European countries seem to manage travelling to all of their domestic away games without any complaints. Glasgow to London is a shorter distance than Paris to Marseilles.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:53   #97 (permalink)
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There's no reason why the UK shouldn't have a national league.
The English teams in the premier league or those hoping to get there won't want it. They don't need the Scottish teams and in fact benefit from their decline. What motivation is there to change?
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:54   #98 (permalink)
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Apart from:

1) Tradition
2) Rangers and Celtic joining the English league will kill the professional game in Scotland
That's the main issue really and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:54   #99 (permalink)
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I think it would be good for the Premier League. Individual clubs mights not like it because of the increased competition for European places, but for football fans, the league would become more competitive.



Britain is not Brazil or Russia.



The fans of clubs in the other geographically large European countries seem to manage travelling to all of their domestic away games without any complaints. Glasgow to London is a shorter distance than Paris to Marseilles.
Fans of teams in the larger European contries are not really travelling fans.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:55   #100 (permalink)
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Regional divisions? Two top divisions, and then begin to split it up... Then we start talking about the problems of how that affects League One and Two, but it could happen at actually help those teams.
Once you start messing about with the leagues, it all gets a bit contentious.
If there was any real interest in English vs Scottish sides at a lower level, the Anglo Scottish Cup would have been a success.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:56   #101 (permalink)
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i hate that club and its support with a passion but contrary to what the Peter Lawwell just said Celtic do need Rangers, unfortunately they complete a symbiotic circle!
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:56   #102 (permalink)
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Wonder how SAF will feel, given its his ex playing club
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:56   #103 (permalink)
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i hate that club and its support with a passion but contrary to what the Peter Lawwell just said Celtic do need Rangers, unfortunately they complete a symbiotic circle!
Goes without saying
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:57   #104 (permalink)
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Wonder how SAF will feel, given its his ex playing club
Not sure how his feelings to the club is, afterall he was more or less forced out of the club because he married a catholic girl.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:58   #105 (permalink)
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Tell that to Plymouth fans that would have to travel to Inverness and vice versa.
The travelling is what I was thinking will be the biggest hurdle.

In the end it is about survival.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:59   #106 (permalink)
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Regional divisions? Two top divisions, and then begin to split it up... Then we start talking about the problems of how that affects League One and Two, but it could happen at actually help those teams.
The old North South leagues.

Play offs at season end to determine promotions.

They do that anyway.
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Old 13th February 2012, 16:59   #107 (permalink)
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I think it would be good for the Premier League. Individual clubs mights not like it because of the increased competition for European places, but for football fans, the league would become more competitive.



Britain is not Brazil or Russia.



The fans of clubs in the other geographically large European countries seem to manage travelling to all of their domestic away games without any complaints. Glasgow to London is a shorter distance than Paris to Marseilles.
True, but I've sat in enough traffic jams to know that travelling that distance in the UK is not always an easy task. Especially if you get weather conditions like we have had in recent winters.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:00   #108 (permalink)
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Apart from:

1) Tradition
2) Rangers and Celtic joining the English league will kill the professional game in Scotland
What does professional football offer fans of football in Scotland that amateur football couldn't? The quality of football is abysmal. Why is it so important to protect the professional game in Scotland?
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:03   #109 (permalink)
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What does professional football offer fans of football in Scotland that amateur football couldn't? The quality of football is abysmal. Why is it so important to protect the professional game in Scotland?
Tell that to the fans, staff and players at the likes of Dundee, Kilmarnock etc.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:03   #110 (permalink)
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The English league and the Premier League have no need for the Scottish teams. No benefits whatsoever.
Rangers and Celtic added to the calendar would actually mean bigger games for all.

When it comes to the old firm moving to the PL I am very much on the fence. I can see the benefits from a selfish point of view, Celtic V Utd would always be a significant game with great atmospheres.

All PL sides and SKY would make more cash. Rangers and Celtic would become very big sides again after a few years

But yes it would spell the end of the SPL, and once good clubs like Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs would struggle too much. It would turn into a slightly better version of the Welsh League
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:06   #111 (permalink)
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Rangers and Celtic added to the calendar would actually mean bigger games for all.

When it comes to the old firm moving to the PL I am very much on the fence. I can see the benefits from a selfish point of view, Celtic V Utd would always be a significant game with great atmospheres.

All PL sides and SKY would make more cash. Rangers and Celtic would become very big sides again after a few years

But yes it would spell the end of the SPL, and once good clubs like Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs would struggle too much. It would turn into a slightly better version of the Welsh League
Why not just go the full hog and make a European league of the 20-30 biggest teams, and leave the smaller clubs around to live of the scraps?
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:10   #112 (permalink)
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Plus the transport and railway network back in the day helped them to travel to English cities in order to play. Do note that teams like Cardiff and Swansea are there by invitation. If the FA wanted to kick them out, they could.
Aren't all clubs there by invitation? Surely they could kick any team out if they wanted to?
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:10   #113 (permalink)
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I hate the idea of a Euro Super League

But talk of the Old Firm moving to England has been around since forever. Its not a new thing

Like I said, I like the idea of them joining from a purely selfish standpoint. I also do not think it would affect the PL in a negative way at all.

It would be the SPL that looses out, and for that reason it is unfair
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:11   #114 (permalink)
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Once you start messing about with the leagues, it all gets a bit contentious.
If there was any real interest in English vs Scottish sides at a lower level, the Anglo Scottish Cup would have been a success.
Not really, a random cup that means nothing in the overall scheme of things? It means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Red Dreams View Post
The old North South leagues.

Play offs at season end to determine promotions.

They do that anyway.
They do indeed, and the major problem with the Conference and below is the ridiculously high travel to turnover costs. Reducing the divisions from national to regional leagues in a decent format is very difficult.

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Why not just go the full hog and make a European league of the 20-30 biggest teams, and leave the smaller clubs around to live of the scraps?
That's a completely different story, it really is. If you merged the English Scottish and Welsh leagues, you would still have the same derbies, Manchester United vs Man City, Newcastle vs Sunderland, Liverpool vs Everton, and that continues all the way down. If you made a European Super League you wouldn't.

There are 12 top Scottish teams, all of those below would be in presumably regional leagues, same with Welsh teams.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:11   #115 (permalink)
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Wonder how SAF will feel, given its his ex playing club
Not sure. Rangers were the club he grew up supporting as a boy, but then he was forced out for religious reasons and I think that soured his view of the club.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:12   #116 (permalink)
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I hate the idea of a Euro Super League

But talk of the Old Firm moving to England has been around since forever. Its not a new thing

Like I said, I like the idea of them joining from a purely selfish standpoint. I also do not think it would affect the PL in a negative way at all.

It would be the SPL that looses out, and for that reason it is unfair
It would affect the two Premier League clubs that lose out in a very negative way.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:14   #117 (permalink)
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What exactly do the Glasgow clubs bring to English football?? apart from trouble with fans, death threats and religious fighting, to make room you would HAVE to relegate english clubs which could have knock on affects like causing them to go into liquidation like Rangers currently are, and then look at the league without them still the most competive, entertaining and most popular league in the world.

Fact is English football could offer the Glasgow clubs the world but in actual fact they bring nothing to the table for the english league to want or need them.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:15   #118 (permalink)
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Aberdeen will be ok as currently they have planning permission for the new stadium and are selling off Pittodrie to clear the current debts the club is carrying. So for now they are ok with this in the next few seasons.

Hearts will be the next club up here in serious trouble as Romanov is withdrawing his support from all the football teams he used to back to now move into backing a basketball team. They have already had players refuse to play for them over late payment of wages, trying to force players out then the manager being told by Romanov not to pick them again because they refused to move.

The amount of flak that has been flying towards Whyte who took over Rangers has been building for a while and question upon question has been added to what has been happening there. They did a deal with a ticket company to sell their tickets for the next few seasons and got paid £20 odd million add to that the £6m from Jelavic and you have to wonder where the money is going or has gone to.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:17   #119 (permalink)
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Another reason why clubs outside of the Old Firm would thrive from the death of Rangers is that all some of the non-local fans would flock to their local teams. Not the best way to get fans, but if it works, then I'm sure the clubs will accept the increased revenue that it brings.
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Old 13th February 2012, 17:20   #120 (permalink)
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Another reason why clubs outside of the Old Firm would thrive from the death of Rangers is that all some of the non-local fans would flock to their local teams. Not the best way to get fans, but if it works, then I'm sure the clubs will accept the increased revenue that it brings.
Rangers won't cease to exist.
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