Same old Ingurland?

AttackingFlair · 13th June 2010, 22:56

SWP should be nowhere near the team. Awful player.

Spammy · 13th June 2010, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

I didn't decide anything of the sort. Considering he was so bad against USA, I'm terrified of what will happen if he comes up against good central midfielders when we are playing teams you need to beat to win the World Cup.

I suspect the real reason you won't name a good CM performance against top class opposition is because a) You can't remember either or b) You can remember but it was when Gerrard was about 20.

I watched the game and I saw that he was giving away the ball too much, and going miles out of position, the statistics support that. That it looks cool to be flying into tackles and charging around the pitch, and that this 'all action' style is so idolised in England, is why he's so over-rated in the first place.

I am fully aware of how he played last night, but he was still our best player and had the best attitude of all the players. I'm not rising to the bait because part of me can't be arsed to explain that he hasn't played that role since about 2 years ago until the last 3 games of the season - when the whole team was a defeated shadow of it's former self. Also I have to have this retarded argument every other week on redmythcafe and I'm pretty tired of it.

kietotheworld · 13th June 2010, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spammy

I am fully aware of how he played last night, but he was still our best player and had the best attitude of all the players. I'm not rising to the bait because part of me can't be arsed to explain that he hasn't played that role since about 2 years ago until the last 3 games of the season - when the whole team was a defeated shadow of it's former self. Also I have to have this retarded argument every other week on redmythcafe and I'm pretty tired of it.

Having the best attitude is worthless if you're passing the ball to the opponents all the time. I'd rather have a composed midfielder actually passing the ball to his team-mates than a player who is charging around like a drunken fool tackling the other team and then giving it back to them.

Even if we accept that he's quality in the CM role, if he hasn't played it for 2 years then it's still a really bad idea to be throwing him back into it for a World Cup, especially when he's notoriously bad alongside Lampard. Gerrard has been a defeated shadow of his former self all season, so asking him to move into a role requiring him to be more disciplined, and him to move away from his natural game is plain daft. Has he ever played well for England alongside Lampard? If he has it was in a game I didn't watch.

AttackingFlair · 13th June 2010, 23:46

We do need ball players. The sooner the likes of Wilshere/Rodwell get experience, the better. In the mean time, there's no excuse not to use someone like Joe Cole who can keep the ball, shield it, dribble and most importantly, pass to a team mate.

Bizzare how anyone can choose Shite Phillips ahead of him, or even Milner.

Spammy · 14th June 2010, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

Having the best attitude is worthless if you're passing the ball to the opponents all the time. I'd rather have a composed midfielder actually passing the ball to his team-mates than a player who is charging around like a drunken fool tackling the other team and then giving it back to them.

Even if we accept that he's quality in the CM role, if he hasn't played it for 2 years then it's still a really bad idea to be throwing him back into it for a World Cup, especially when he's notoriously bad alongside Lampard. Gerrard has been a defeated shadow of his former self all season, so asking him to move into a role requiring him to be more disciplined, and him to move away from his natural game is plain daft. Has he ever played well for England alongside Lampard? If he has it was in a game I didn't watch.

It's not moving him out of his natural position, he's not naturally a #10. Partnering him with Lampard was a risk but Frank has to take most of the blame, he won't come and take it off the defence and he won't run with the ball. I wouldn't partner them in a flat midfield, I'd put them in a 3 with Barry of Carrick, with Gerrard deeper than his role for Liverpool this year.

esmufc14 · 14th June 2010, 00:34

Spammy nobody asked you .

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 00:37

That could be a bit of an overreaction.

Poor Gerrard was trying to do everything last night. He was immense, but he stood no chance of doing it all by himself at this stage.

Rooney couldn't be creative when he was just trying to calm things down and create a bit of possession for others (when he wasn't isolated).

For once Heskey did his job, and somehow everyone seems shocked he can't finish anything. I will say he didn't really link well with Rooney, but I'll put that on the fact Rooney was quiet in general and looking backward instead of looking to link up with Heskey. It wasn't Heskey's fault particularly (I don't think it was Rooney's either - he was trying to get the team going).

The wingers are horrible. Joe Cole, you are required. Milner? You're honestly having a laugh. He was sick, they say. Watching him made me sick. He made that Chaluaopcxscfsdfergwghedeuuega or whatever he was called look a lot better than he was.

Cole may not be the fastest, but he is the cleverest that England have. End of. The headless chicken stuff doesn't work. Cole and Lennon for me.

King was decent enough until the inevitable gust of wind required him to be rushed to hospital. Dawson needs his chance now.

Terry looked a little lost. I know he's no longer the captain, but I found it a bit funny that the only leadership he seemed to want to show to a creaking defense was by grassing up Ledley King when King was trying to be a man and play through his problem.

Cole didn't really do anything wrong, but needs to be able to get forward more with confidence that he's covered.

Johnson deserved a medal for trying.

Carragher deserved a ticket home. On a rowboat. With a hole in it. And a lead weight around his feet (although based on his recent performances, he's already got that naturally).

Green's howler changed the match. I think England would have cruised to a 3-1 win without it. But with it, everyone froze on the big stage as "England Expects" again. Unlike everyone else, I think at some point you have to stick with someone. Green is as good as the rest of them. The one with all the experience is nicknamed "Calamity" for a reason. I think the pressure and potential for similar mistakes on Hart would be exponentially more than it would be just sticking with Green for the WC and dealing with whether he's the number one after it.

The big mistake was going 4-4-2 in the first place.

Overrun the USA in the midfield with clever movement. Outpass them, as was done for the first goal.

Do what England can do with the players they can do it with.

This means 4-5-1 as everyone has said.

This means playing Lennon and Cole on the wings, this means Gerrard the furthest forward of a MF three that includes (until Barry is fit) Carrick.

England can still go far in this tournament. England shouldn't be favourites given everything that has happened with injuries, team disruptions, and the like.

But you never know.

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

Why would you drop Lampard and keep Gerrard? Contrary to popular belief, Gerrard was terrible in the position yesterday, and his good performances there are extremely rare. He looked good yesterday because he kept flying around making tackles, but that was only because he kept giving the ball away (over 40% of his passes went to opponents) and because he was so far out of position that he had to sprint back to cover. Lampard by contrast, has had an excellent season in the position, and had a disciplined, if quiet, performance. I'd rather start with Carrick and Barry in central midfield, than Gerrard alongside anyone, he can't play that position at international level, and that's been obvious for years now.

Gerrard can play on either wing or upfront, and he should be in the team if we're playing 4-4-2 but playing him in Central Midfield, certainly in that formation, is suicide against quality teams. He would just be made a fool of.

Gerrard's "flying around" was breaking up attacks, responding to attacking movement, and doing this little thing called "scoring goals".

That was because he was "all action".

He was immense.

If everyone sat down in the centre circle and ate their dinner (and probably a couple of others) like Lampard did last night, England would be going out in the groups.

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc10

Spammy nobody asked you .

I did.

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttackingFlair

We do need ball players. The sooner the likes of Wilshere/Rodwell get experience, the better. In the mean time, there's no excuse not to use someone like Joe Cole who can keep the ball, shield it, dribble and most importantly, pass to a team mate.

Bizzare how anyone can choose Shite Phillips ahead of him, or even Milner.

I saw Milner on the team sheet and started laughing.

Grinner · 14th June 2010, 00:48

We always start slow and crap. That was our toughest game and we should have won. The best yank player was Howard...that tells it all really. I'd be worried if I was a yank since they don't look like scoring much at all.

We'll get through and then get proper raped in the knockout rounds by a quality side.

Spammy · 14th June 2010, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearded but no genius

That could be a bit of an overreaction.

Poor Gerrard was trying to do everything last night. He was immense, but he stood no chance of doing it all by himself at this stage.

Rooney couldn't be creative when he was just trying to calm things down and create a bit of possession for others (when he wasn't isolated).

For once Heskey did his job, and somehow everyone seems shocked he can't finish anything. I will say he didn't really link well with Rooney, but I'll put that on the fact Rooney was quiet in general and looking backward instead of looking to link up with Heskey. It wasn't Heskey's fault particularly (I don't think it was Rooney's either - he was trying to get the team going).

The wingers are horrible. Joe Cole, you are required. Milner? You're honestly having a laugh. He was sick, they say. Watching him made me sick. He made that Chaluaopcxscfsdfergwghedeuuega or whatever he was called look a lot better than he was.

Cole may not be the fastest, but he is the cleverest that England have. End of. The headless chicken stuff doesn't work. Cole and Lennon for me.

King was decent enough until the inevitable gust of wind required him to be rushed to hospital. Dawson needs his chance now.

Terry looked a little lost. I know he's no longer the captain, but I found it a bit funny that the only leadership he seemed to want to show to a creaking defense was by grassing up Ledley King when King was trying to be a man and play through his problem.

Cole didn't really do anything wrong, but needs to be able to get forward more with confidence that he's covered.

Johnson deserved a medal for trying.

Carragher deserved a ticket home. On a rowboat. With a hole in it. And a lead weight around his feet (although based on his recent performances, he's already got that naturally).

Green's howler changed the match. I think England would have cruised to a 3-1 win without it. But with it, everyone froze on the big stage as "England Expects" again. Unlike everyone else, I think at some point you have to stick with someone. Green is as good as the rest of them. The one with all the experience is nicknamed "Calamity" for a reason. I think the pressure and potential for similar mistakes on Hart would be exponentially more than it would be just sticking with Green for the WC and dealing with whether he's the number one after it.

The big mistake was going 4-4-2 in the first place.

Overrun the USA in the midfield with clever movement. Outpass them, as was done for the first goal.

Do what England can do with the players they can do it with.

This means 4-5-1 as everyone has said.

This means playing Lennon and Cole on the wings, this means Gerrard the furthest forward of a MF three that includes (until Barry is fit) Carrick.

England can still go far in this tournament. England shouldn't be favourites given everything that has happened with injuries, team disruptions, and the like.

But you never know.

Again, people are praising Heskey in the same way they say people with down syndrome are 'brave'. He is guff.

Other than that you are very correct my love muscle.

I also thought of you and the other Yanks on here when Carra got out run for Altidore's chance that Green pushed onto the post. I saw it coming a mile off and my redcafe life flashed before my eyes as I realised what was about to happen.

Oh well, onwards and upwards, hopefully Slovenia can take a point off you and we can smash Slovenia and Algeria because I really, really don't want to come second in our group

esmufc14 · 14th June 2010, 00:54

Why were all the commentators praising that Green save anyway? It was shit and he should have done much better with it, if it goes in it's classed as a 'howler'.

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grinner

We always start slow and crap. That was our toughest game and we should have won. The best yank player was Howard...that tells it all really. I'd be worried if I was a yank since they don't look like scoring much at all.

We'll get through and then get proper raped in the knockout rounds by a quality side.

That's what I saw too, as an outsider and an American (mind you, one who hates everything about American "sawker" culture).

I can't understand the panic that happens every tournament in England.

Oh, and can someone please bludgeon Alexi Lalas to death with a 24" dildo?

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spammy

Again, people are praising Heskey in the same way they say people with down syndrome are 'brave'. He is guff.

Other than that you are very correct my love muscle.

I also thought of you and the other Yanks on here when Carra got out run for Altidore's chance that Green pushed onto the post. I saw it coming a mile off and my redcafe life flashed before my eyes as I realised what was about to happen.

Oh well, onwards and upwards, hopefully Slovenia can take a point off you and we can smash Slovenia and Algeria because I really, really don't want to come second in our group

Thanks sweets.

England will win the group.

The USA are not going to like the other teams in the group. Algeria are essentially France B, and can get down and dirty when they want to. Slovenia are a very handy side - I don't know why everyone was surprised that they won today given they knocked out Russia. They'll all be playing their top stuff against the USA, expecting it is between the three of them for who goes through with England.

They may well be a bit star struck against England, and provided that the weight of those three lions don't burden your lot too horribly much, everything will be all set up for your traditional late-round exit.

I know what you mean about Heskey. But he's picked specifically to provide with the knowledge that he'll essentially never score. That much is obvious by now. Most everyone on planet earth aside from England's opponents disagree with the selection, but that's the logic behind it.

It screams out for 4-5-1, and I thought that was the reason England got the fancy Italian master tactician in the first place.

Instead they're playing 4-4-2 against the Americans?

Fur realz? If Landon Donovan had scored to win I would have moved to Canada just so I didn't have to be associated with the wanking.

And Carragher? This is why he "retired" from the national team in the first place. He's been living a charmed life in the prem somehow. Look up liability in the dictionary and there's a four page photo-spread.

How's your (upper) eye?

Spammy · 14th June 2010, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearded but no genius

Thanks sweets.

England will win the group.

The USA are not going to like the other teams in the group. Algeria are essentially France B, and can get down and dirty when they want to. Slovenia are a very handy side - I don't know why everyone was surprised that they won today given they knocked out Russia. They'll all be playing their top stuff against the USA, expecting it is between the three of them for who goes through with England.

They may well be a bit star struck against England, and provided that the weight of those three lions don't burden your lot too horribly much, everything will be all set up for your traditional late-round exit.

I know what you mean about Heskey. But he's picked specifically to provide with the knowledge that he'll essentially never score. That much is obvious by now. Most everyone on planet earth aside from England's opponents disagree with the selection, but that's the logic behind it.

It screams out for 4-5-1, and I thought that was the reason England got the fancy Italian master tactician in the first place.

Instead they're playing 4-4-2 against the Americans?

Fur realz? If Landon Donovan had scored to win I would have moved to Canada just so I didn't have to be associated with the wanking.

And Carragher? This is why he "retired" from the national team in the first place. He's been living a charmed life in the prem somehow. Look up liability in the dictionary and there's a four page photo-spread.

How's your (upper) eye?

Believe me, I'm aware of Slovenia, I'm aware of any opponent we face. As they say; a pessimist is never disappointed. Except with England, that's not strictly true as they find a way every time to make a manic depressive feel even worse.

The eye is much better cheers, still giving my discomfort but they said it will do for 5 days or so.

surf · 14th June 2010, 01:20

King's tournament is done, which is no great loss. Losing Rio was the major blow because it has upset the balance of our defence. Having Green behind and Lampard directly in front isn't helping them either. JT is going to have his work cut out holding the back line together.

AttackingFlair · 14th June 2010, 01:59

Gerrard's performance was Hargreaves-esque without the goal. He should play further up the pitch, either left wing or behind Rooney for me. You can say he ran around slide tackled etc but he also gave the ball away a lot and England couldn't keep any possession or passing moves because of himself and Lampard. If only we had Paul Scholes..

Team Brian GB · 14th June 2010, 04:05

With the players available this is the best way to go.

Hart

Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole

Barry Gerrard

Lennon Lampard J.Cole

Rooney

Raees · 14th June 2010, 09:30

Lampard cannot be the player in the hole.. he just doesn't have the skill at international level to feed Rooney.

Alot of you favour Gerrard in this role and I hope you're right that it works, but I honestly believe Joe Cole is the best 'in the hole' player we have got.

Look at Ozil yesterday, having a dribbler in that position with a good eye for a pass makes a great difference... he is a flair player and Joe Cole is the closest England have to such a player.

We need to change this team and be different, be more silky not go back to old school dynamism and grit.

Fergies Formula · 14th June 2010, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Brian GB

With the players available this is the best way to go.

Hart

Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole

Barry Lampard

Lennon Gerrard J.Cole

Rooney

This is more suited. Our players need to concentrate on ball rentention even if its not gaining ground, just dont force the pass!!! it will breed confidence, i just hope we see this line up, it will allow rooney cole n gerrard to freedom and give defence a lot of problems. Dawson is quick and at the minute focused. Cant do worse than King

Rowem · 14th June 2010, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Brian GB

With the players available this is the best way to go.

Hart

Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole

Barry Gerrard

Lennon Lampard J.Cole

Rooney

Absolutely agree with this team and the fact that Lampard should be in the hole.

He's shit as an orthodox CM.

Anderson Searl · 14th June 2010, 19:27

If SWP and Heskey knew how to shoot the ball we'd be talking about a dominating 3-1 English win... Kneejerkish if i've ever seen it this

marcus agrippa · 14th June 2010, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anderson Searl

If SWP and Heskey knew how to shoot the ball we'd be talking about a dominating 3-1 English win... Kneejerkish if i've ever seen it this

But the point is they don't, and they're what England have taken to SA.

Bearded but no genius · 14th June 2010, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raees

Lampard cannot be the player in the hole.. he just doesn't have the skill at international level to feed Rooney.

He doesn't have the DISCIPLINE.

He just wants to turn and shoot.

Raees · 15th June 2010, 00:46

Quote:

Beckenbauer: England have regressed under Capello

Former manager criticises 'kick and rush' tactics Carragher puts Germany's strong start down to familiarity with unpredictable new ball

By Ian Herbert and Sam Wallace in Bafokeng

Franz Beckenbauer has stored up potential for a stormy clash between England and Germany by declaring that Fabio Capello's side have headed "backwards into the bad old days of kick and rush" on the evidence of Saturday's opening match against the United States and he has also suggested that there is very little that can be done to improve things.

Beckenbauer, an ambassador for the German game, said that England's failings were a product of the Premier League being packed with too many foreign players. "The English are being punished for the fact that there are very few English players in the Premier League clubs as they use better foreign players from all over the world," he said.

From an individual who only this month praised Capello's firm style of management, Beckenbauer's comments in a South African newspaper are eyecatching – given that England's overall display against a disciplined United States side was by no means calamitous. But while Beckenbauer has pointed the finger at the Premier League's use of foreign players, his own nation's far more impressive start to the tournament comes after them having had the advantage over England of working with the tournament's unpredictable adidas Jabulani ball for the past four months in the Bundesliga.

The ball, which is acknowledged as the most unpredictable ever used in a World Cup tournament, was made available to coaches in February and used in US Major League Soccer as well as eight continental European leagues, including Germany's – though not the Premier League because of its contractual obligations to Nike.

Jamie Carragher said yesterday that the England players were aware of the Germans' greater familiarity with the ball, which he believed did offer Joachim Low's side a material advantage heading into the tournament. "I can see the headlines [but] it gives them an advantage," Carragher said. "That is obvious. The ball is very different. Every training session we do we always start by passing 30 or 40 yards to each other just for that reason alone. I am sure it has helped them. It is an advantage of course."

The ball, which both Clint Dempsey and Frank Lampard claim deviated before Robert Green fumbled it here on Saturday evening, could not be used by England in the two home friendlies since February because of the international deal with Umbro and use of it has been limited to the intensive World Cup warm-up period, including the friendly against Japan in Graz. With only two training sessions before the fixture with Egypt in March, Fabio Capello and his staff did not consider the use of it worthwhile at that stage.

Capello's staff were given the chance to learn more about the ball at a workshop run by adidas during the international coaches' conference at Sun City in February. "We underlined the requirement to get used to it because it is a different ball and a different technology," adidas spokesman, Thomas von Schaik, said yesterday. "We underlined this point. At the same time we also supplied all the federations with the balls. The reason we chose February was because following the launch in December there had not been any internationals. That meant that the national teams would have the first opportunity to have access to the ball at the same time."

England may play Germany in Bloemfontein on 26 June if they fail to win Group C and Germany top Group D and it will be Beckenbauer's comments which will offer most incentive to Capello and his side if they do. There is no history of bad blood between Capello and Beckenbaeur, though the German's dislike of the number of foreign players in the Premier League is an issue he has aired before. He said England's failure to qualify for Euro 2008 was because of the number of foreign players in the domestic league.

Wayne Rooney missed training yesterday with a knock to his ankle sustained against the US but it is no cause for concern ahead of Friday's match against Algeria in Cape Town.

Ashley Cole was also absent but only on the basis that he has regularly needed an extra day to recover from playing after breaking his ankle in February. Ledley King underwent a scan on his abductor muscle strained in the fourth minute of the US game. He is unlikely to play any further part in tournament.

Der Kaiser

Bilbo · 15th June 2010, 13:46

I thought we played fairly well on Saturday. So do most people I've spoken to in real life. Not sure if the internet is only meant to be used as a ranting tool these days, but it wasn't really that bad at all. We created quite a few chances, we controlled the game, and there were some spells of good football.

We start slow, we'll improve, and we've got every chance of getting to the semi-finals. After that, who knows.

Red_Jamie · 16th June 2010, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_Jamie

-------Barry---Lampard------
Lennon-----------------J.Cole
---------Gerrard-------------
----------------Rooney-------

Desailly has just agreed that this should be Englands formation..

I really will be amazed if Capello goes with anything other than that. It's staring him in the face.

peterstorey · 16th June 2010, 12:31

It's been staring him in the face for 18 months and should have trialled in friendlies.

Red_Jamie · 16th June 2010, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

It's been staring him in the face for 18 months and should have trialled in friendlies.

I'll be quite simply staggered if he doesn't go with it on Friday.

RedSky At Night · 16th June 2010, 12:36

Why are we playing Rooney out of position when he scored a fuck load of goals for United upfront as a single striker?

Why do we have no wingers in the team that can deliver a decent cross when a large number of Rooneys goal this season came from headers?

Why are we still playing Gerrard as a CB?

Why is SWP even near the team when he has produced very little throughout his internatial carear?

I'm still amazed that we took so many strikers when what we need is versatile wingers. Johnson and Walcott should be over there right now.

Raees · 18th June 2010, 20:21

Same old indeed

Striker10 · 18th June 2010, 20:30

Algeria are as good on the ball as Usa were. There is nothing new here. England don't have enough in midfield to dominate the ball. Heskey is shite. There are massive problems at the minute. You can win a tournament with problems but Gerrard and Lennon have provided nothing from out wide, Rooney is in no mans land, Heskey is Heskey

There are a lot of problems and it's nothing new. You can walk the qualifying rounds to get to the world cup but England didn't play any great teams and England are so predictable it's untrue. Technically Algeria look more comfortable with the ball. It should worry people. If this was Eire, what we lack in Technique we make up for in heart and commitment. England need some of that.

datura · 18th June 2010, 20:35

England are a bit like France, good players but not playing as a team and relying too much on a select few individuals to produce a bit of magic.

Tumbling-Dice · 18th June 2010, 20:44

Absolutely shocking, really really bad. And I mean bad.

Tumbling-Dice · 18th June 2010, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker10

If this was Eire, what we lack in Technique we make up for in heart and commitment. England need some of that.

Ireland would piss all over this England side.

Boss · 18th June 2010, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumbling-Dice

Ireland would piss all over this England side.

Big-Red · 18th June 2010, 21:13

Ireland > Algeria=England(for now)

lem8sh · 18th June 2010, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumbling-Dice

Ireland would piss all over this England side.

For the first time in ages I would really fancy our chances against them

moyesmyhero · 18th June 2010, 21:21

Still maintain that England are the Newcastle of international football. Did really well ages ago, and think they're better and bigger than they are.

That was a shockingly horrible game from England. They played more like it was a friendly rather than a crucial World Cup match.

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13th June 2010, 22:56	#41 (permalink)
AttackingFlair First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,838	SWP should be nowhere near the team. Awful player.

13th June 2010, 23:46	#44 (permalink)
AttackingFlair First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,838	We do need ball players. The sooner the likes of Wilshere/Rodwell get experience, the better. In the mean time, there's no excuse not to use someone like Joe Cole who can keep the ball, shield it, dribble and most importantly, pass to a team mate. Bizzare how anyone can choose Shite Phillips ahead of him, or even Milner.

14th June 2010, 00:34	#46 (permalink)
esmufc14 9 Pages of infractions Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lake Fianga Posts: 24,726	Spammy nobody asked you .

14th June 2010, 00:37	#47 (permalink)
Bearded but no genius Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: "You sir, are the syphilitic cockbiscuit son of a hamster rimmer."; "Sir Alex Ferguson, trainer of the English champions, wants to start the spoon fruits since early." PS. What on God's Green Earth is "SpoSpa"? PPS. "cubs > scouts" Posts: 67,956	That could be a bit of an overreaction. Poor Gerrard was trying to do everything last night. He was immense, but he stood no chance of doing it all by himself at this stage. Rooney couldn't be creative when he was just trying to calm things down and create a bit of possession for others (when he wasn't isolated). For once Heskey did his job, and somehow everyone seems shocked he can't finish anything. I will say he didn't really link well with Rooney, but I'll put that on the fact Rooney was quiet in general and looking backward instead of looking to link up with Heskey. It wasn't Heskey's fault particularly (I don't think it was Rooney's either - he was trying to get the team going). The wingers are horrible. Joe Cole, you are required. Milner? You're honestly having a laugh. He was sick, they say. Watching him made me sick. He made that Chaluaopcxscfsdfergwghedeuuega or whatever he was called look a lot better than he was. Cole may not be the fastest, but he is the cleverest that England have. End of. The headless chicken stuff doesn't work. Cole and Lennon for me. King was decent enough until the inevitable gust of wind required him to be rushed to hospital. Dawson needs his chance now. Terry looked a little lost. I know he's no longer the captain, but I found it a bit funny that the only leadership he seemed to want to show to a creaking defense was by grassing up Ledley King when King was trying to be a man and play through his problem. Cole didn't really do anything wrong, but needs to be able to get forward more with confidence that he's covered. Johnson deserved a medal for trying. Carragher deserved a ticket home. On a rowboat. With a hole in it. And a lead weight around his feet (although based on his recent performances, he's already got that naturally). Green's howler changed the match. I think England would have cruised to a 3-1 win without it. But with it, everyone froze on the big stage as "England Expects" again. Unlike everyone else, I think at some point you have to stick with someone. Green is as good as the rest of them. The one with all the experience is nicknamed "Calamity" for a reason. I think the pressure and potential for similar mistakes on Hart would be exponentially more than it would be just sticking with Green for the WC and dealing with whether he's the number one after it. The big mistake was going 4-4-2 in the first place. Overrun the USA in the midfield with clever movement. Outpass them, as was done for the first goal. Do what England can do with the players they can do it with. This means 4-5-1 as everyone has said. This means playing Lennon and Cole on the wings, this means Gerrard the furthest forward of a MF three that includes (until Barry is fit) Carrick. England can still go far in this tournament. England shouldn't be favourites given everything that has happened with injuries, team disruptions, and the like. But you never know.

14th June 2010, 00:48	#51 (permalink)
Grinner Fat gutted, hairy shouldered, stinky Arse. Join Date: May 2003 Location: I love free dirt and rocks! Posts: 34,829	We always start slow and crap. That was our toughest game and we should have won. The best yank player was Howard...that tells it all really. I'd be worried if I was a yank since they don't look like scoring much at all. We'll get through and then get proper raped in the knockout rounds by a quality side.

14th June 2010, 00:54	#53 (permalink)
esmufc14 9 Pages of infractions Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lake Fianga Posts: 24,726	Why were all the commentators praising that Green save anyway? It was shit and he should have done much better with it, if it goes in it's classed as a 'howler'.

14th June 2010, 01:20	#57 (permalink)
surf Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the wilderness Posts: 4,259	King's tournament is done, which is no great loss. Losing Rio was the major blow because it has upset the balance of our defence. Having Green behind and Lampard directly in front isn't helping them either. JT is going to have his work cut out holding the back line together.

14th June 2010, 01:59	#58 (permalink)
AttackingFlair First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,838	Gerrard's performance was Hargreaves-esque without the goal. He should play further up the pitch, either left wing or behind Rooney for me. You can say he ran around slide tackled etc but he also gave the ball away a lot and England couldn't keep any possession or passing moves because of himself and Lampard. If only we had Paul Scholes..

14th June 2010, 04:05	#59 (permalink)
Team Brian GB Baby Cameron loves X-Factor Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 16,248	With the players available this is the best way to go. Hart Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole Barry Gerrard Lennon Lampard J.Cole Rooney

14th June 2010, 09:30	#60 (permalink)
Raees First Team Regular Join Date: May 2009 Location: He was born to wear the Man United Jersey... Vaaan persieee Posts: 10,487	Lampard cannot be the player in the hole.. he just doesn't have the skill at international level to feed Rooney. Alot of you favour Gerrard in this role and I hope you're right that it works, but I honestly believe Joe Cole is the best 'in the hole' player we have got. Look at Ozil yesterday, having a dribbler in that position with a good eye for a pass makes a great difference... he is a flair player and Joe Cole is the closest England have to such a player. We need to change this team and be different, be more silky not go back to old school dynamism and grit.

14th June 2010, 19:27	#63 (permalink)
Anderson Searl Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: :lol: Posts: 16,412	If SWP and Heskey knew how to shoot the ball we'd be talking about a dominating 3-1 English win... Kneejerkish if i've ever seen it this

15th June 2010, 13:46	#67 (permalink)
Bilbo First Team Sub Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 7,599	I thought we played fairly well on Saturday. So do most people I've spoken to in real life. Not sure if the internet is only meant to be used as a ranting tool these days, but it wasn't really that bad at all. We created quite a few chances, we controlled the game, and there were some spells of good football. We start slow, we'll improve, and we've got every chance of getting to the semi-finals. After that, who knows.

16th June 2010, 12:31	#69 (permalink)
peterstorey Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: I've dealt with RiP being injured for 8 seasons - it's your problem now. Posts: 29,926	It's been staring him in the face for 18 months and should have trialled in friendlies.

16th June 2010, 12:36	#71 (permalink)
RedSky At Night RTA waiting to happen Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nottingham Forest (Soccermanager) Posts: 22,117	Why are we playing Rooney out of position when he scored a fuck load of goals for United upfront as a single striker? Why do we have no wingers in the team that can deliver a decent cross when a large number of Rooneys goal this season came from headers? Why are we still playing Gerrard as a CB? Why is SWP even near the team when he has produced very little throughout his internatial carear? I'm still amazed that we took so many strikers when what we need is versatile wingers. Johnson and Walcott should be over there right now.

18th June 2010, 20:21	#72 (permalink)
Raees First Team Regular Join Date: May 2009 Location: He was born to wear the Man United Jersey... Vaaan persieee Posts: 10,487	Same old indeed

18th June 2010, 20:30	#73 (permalink)
Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football club" Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,088	Algeria are as good on the ball as Usa were. There is nothing new here. England don't have enough in midfield to dominate the ball. Heskey is shite. There are massive problems at the minute. You can win a tournament with problems but Gerrard and Lennon have provided nothing from out wide, Rooney is in no mans land, Heskey is Heskey There are a lot of problems and it's nothing new. You can walk the qualifying rounds to get to the world cup but England didn't play any great teams and England are so predictable it's untrue. Technically Algeria look more comfortable with the ball. It should worry people. If this was Eire, what we lack in Technique we make up for in heart and commitment. England need some of that.

18th June 2010, 20:35	#74 (permalink)
datura First Team Sub Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: so it goes Posts: 9,115	England are a bit like France, good players but not playing as a team and relying too much on a select few individuals to produce a bit of magic.

18th June 2010, 20:44	#75 (permalink)
Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Roy Keane has five kids, partly because of his Irish Catholic background, and partly because someone told him that Patrick Vieira has four. Posts: 18,768	Absolutely shocking, really really bad. And I mean bad.

18th June 2010, 21:13	#78 (permalink)
Big-Red First Team Regular Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: The arse groove of my sofa Posts: 12,605	Ireland > Algeria=England(for now)

18th June 2010, 21:21	#80 (permalink)
moyesmyhero Emmy Moses Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 4000+ miles west of old trafford Posts: 23,511	Still maintain that England are the Newcastle of international football. Did really well ages ago, and think they're better and bigger than they are. That was a shockingly horrible game from England. They played more like it was a friendly rather than a crucial World Cup match.