Sevilla's genius protest against Real Madrid and Barcelona

rcoobc · 26th April 2012, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mockney

You can argue about the amounted horses racing in the two leagues all you like. The key difference is the money. Nothing takes the biscuit quite like La Liga's idea of strict meritocracy

It utterly kills me every time I read someone on here wanting United to break away from the domestic TV deal. And there are actually people who do want that.

Madness. Why bother competing if you aren't even going to play by the same rules?

Sewelly The Geordie · 26th April 2012, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

It utterly kills me every time I read someone on here wanting United to break away from the domestic TV deal. And there are actually people who do want that.

Madness. Why bother competing if you aren't even going to play by the same rules?

It would be a terrible thing for English football, no doubt.

mariachi-19 · 26th April 2012, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramshock

Its poorly run that league, why they think only two teams being able to win it makes it a better league I have no idea.

I imagine it comes down to people thinking that it gives the league more exposure. The problem is that it sucks the life out of the teams from 3rd down and forces them to sell their best players just to keep somewhat solvent.

adexkola · 26th April 2012, 15:15

I think only Cal? on here is in favor of seperate TV deals. We'd make more money from it that's for sure, but it would destroy the league IMO.

mariachi-19 · 26th April 2012, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

It utterly kills me every time I read someone on here wanting United to break away from the domestic TV deal. And there are actually people who do want that.

Madness. Why bother competing if you aren't even going to play by the same rules?

I think clubs should be allowed to sell online streaming passes through their websites to generate income, but of sky feeds etc. Obviously sky still take a percentage that can be distributed evenly amongst say the bottom cash generating teams in the league, but i'd happily pay $200 a season to watch every United match online with a good quality stream. Even if United only take 50% that's $100 a year each that the murdoch empire and United are not getting as i'm forced to watch illegal streams because I refuse to purchase pay television.

99 red balloons · 26th April 2012, 15:22

Does anyone else think that we never get enough credit for not pursuing a similar system here. We'd get about double what the second highest paid team gets.

Not saying I want it or agree with the Spanish system, just think a few of the ABUs could do with taking note of how lucky their clubs are compared to teams like Sevilla.

rcoobc · 26th April 2012, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99 red balloons

Does anyone else think that we never get enough credit for not pursuing a similar system here. We'd get about double what the second highest paid team gets.

Not saying I want it or agree with the Spanish system, just think a few of the ABUs could do with taking note of how lucky their clubs are compared to teams like Sevilla.

How do you know the Glazers don't want exactly that?

Twigginater · 26th April 2012, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

How do you know the Glazers don't want exactly that?

We don't really know anything to be honest.

I do hope it never happens though.

Sewelly The Geordie · 26th April 2012, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by adexkola

I think only Cal? on here is in favor of seperate TV deals.

Well that's come as an almighty surprise.

rcoobc · 26th April 2012, 15:55

There are others around who want it, Cal? is the most vocal proponent though.

Sponsorship deals, Match-Day income, pretty much everything else gets sold in a club-by-club basis.

adexkola · 26th April 2012, 16:10

The NBA in the states distributes equally, with sponsorship deals, jersey sales, and stadium seat sales. With a salary cap and a draft seaosn, it''s as close to a fair system as you'll get.

rcoobc · 26th April 2012, 16:19

Indeed, I wouldn't mind moving towards that model to be honest. United might win half as many league titles, but those league titles would be worth twice as much in my eyes.

Certainly I have argued before that sponsorship deals should have a percentage shared. United are valuable because we play in the Premier League, take us out of the Premier League and the DHL deal for example is suddenly a lot less valuable.

I think there should always be a percentage which is kept selfishly, as this promotes clubs looking for good deals, and stops them thinking about breaking away.

mariachi-19 · 26th April 2012, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by adexkola

The NBA in the states distributes equally, with sponsorship deals, jersey sales, and stadium seat sales. With a salary cap and a draft seaosn, it''s as close to a fair system as you'll get.

Thing is though, it's still not parity. The closest system you'll get to parity is the Australian AFL and NRL systems where the salary cap cannot be breached legally regardless of how much a team pays. But, you can't do it with professional football because the existing systems have been in place for far too long. It's almost like a natural order, although it could be curbed by proper regulation. The premier league does a good job as every team is rewarded on a consistent basis. It also rewards teams for being capable of marketing as it should be.

Trionz · 26th April 2012, 16:44

Well done Sevilla.

Why can't all teams come together against these deals and protest vigorously?

Fans of other clubs should stop going to Nou Camp & Bernabeu.

Ole's_toe_poke · 26th April 2012, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

Fans of other clubs should stop going to Nou Camp & Bernabeu.

They don't. Away fans rarely travel in the Spanish League matches. For example the last classico at the Bernabeu had only 300 or so Barca fans.

Trionz · 26th April 2012, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arruda

I'm shocked at how everyone condones them cursing. Surely they could make their point using more decent words.

You are shocked?
If i was asked to follow my club mostly on Mondays & thursdays; and matches were delayed to accommodate press conference of Barca-Madrid; i would be throwing gas cylinder out there and put nude banners of everyone related to Barcelona & Madrid.

Trionz · 26th April 2012, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole's_toe_poke

They don't. Away fans rarely travel in the Spanish League matches. For example the last classico at the Bernabeu had only 300 or so Barca fans.

Oh, recession or their away support is just shit like that?

Sewelly The Geordie · 26th April 2012, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

Oh, recession or their away support is just shit like that?

Just shit, always has been. Not engrained in their culture like it is in England.

Arruda · 26th April 2012, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trionz

You are shocked?
If i was asked to follow my club mostly on Mondays & thursdays; and matches were delayed to accommodate press conference of Barca-Madrid; i would be throwing gas cylinder out there and put nude banners of everyone related to Barcelona & Madrid.

Yes, I'm shocked at cursing chants during a football game

I_live_cement · 26th April 2012, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sewelly The Geordie

Just shit, always has been. Not engrained in their culture like it is in England.

What, Barcelona? Or just Spain in general?

Bilbao brought a fair few over for the Europa League.

Sunny Jim · 26th April 2012, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by marchi-91

I think clubs should be allowed to sell online streaming passes through their websites to generate income, but of sky feeds etc. Obviously sky still take a percentage that can be distributed evenly amongst say the bottom cash generating teams in the league, but i'd happily pay $200 a season to watch every United match online with a good quality stream. Even if United only take 50% that's $100 a year each that the murdoch empire and United are not getting as i'm forced to watch illegal streams because I refuse to purchase pay television.

I want that too. One of the reason i don't want to buy tv subsirption is that i hardly ever stay at home over the weekend. With streams i just take my laptop, mobile router and thats all. Tv deal anchores you to one place.

jojojo · 26th April 2012, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_live_cement

What, Barcelona? Or just Spain in general?

Bilbao brought a fair few over for the Europa League.

A combination of culture, money, distance and scheduling.

Sevilla to Madrid is a 6 hour drive, Sevilla to Bilbao or Barcelona are about 10-12 hours, and that's now, go back a couple of decades and you could double some of those journey times. Mallorca needs a boat or a flight. People just didn't get in the habit of travelling and by the time it was just about practical every game was being televised live.

It's a self perpetuating thing now. A lot of grounds have no special provision for away fans. Ticket costs in Spain are usually reasonable at season ticket holder rates, often very high for visitors - which means fans often don't make even the easy journeys, like to local derbies.

The TV schedule often means teams have less than a week's notice of kickoff time and even kickoff day. This weekend the earliest match on Sunday will kickoff at noon, the last one on Saturday kicks off at 10pm.

Spanish fans save their pennies for the team's big match of the year - a final, an away against Manchester United, something like that.

Wonder Pigeon · 26th April 2012, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

Sevilla must feel particularly hard done by those new TV deals, they were competing for the league and actually came close to winning it in 2006 or 2007 I think. Same goes for Valencia really. I don't think a team different than Real Madrid or Barcelona will win the league again.

Yeah right.

Brosstan · 26th April 2012, 18:35

If those fans had donated money to the club instead of wasting it on tennis balls maybe they wouldnt have had so much problems with gaining a little bit less money from TV rights.

rcoobc · 26th April 2012, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brosstan

If those fans had donated money to the club instead of wasting it on tennis balls maybe they wouldnt have had so much problems with gaining a little bit less money from TV rights.

Really?

manutddjw · 26th April 2012, 19:01

Does anyone know why alot of La Liga teams don't have shirt sponsors? I find it hard to believe that League 2 teams can get shirt sponsors but some La Liga teams playing in European Competitions can't.

rcoobc · 26th April 2012, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by manutddjw

Does anyone know why alot of La Liga teams don't have shirt sponsors? I find it hard to believe that League 2 teams can get shirt sponsors but some La Liga teams playing in European Competitions can't.

Maybe they don't want to tie themselves to a long-term poor sponsor, or devalue the rights? If they sell the shirt for a small amount on a match by match basis, then they can't argue it's worth much more than that overall?

Just a guess.

Sir Matt · 27th April 2012, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcoobc

How do you know the Glazers don't want exactly that?

Gill has come out and said that the club and owners have not considered it because competition in the league is key to the club's success and value.

JonDahl · 27th April 2012, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

I don't think a team different than Real Madrid or Barcelona will win the league again.

Fucking hell.

Twigginater · 27th April 2012, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonDahl

Fucking hell.

If the tv deal doesn't change... He's right.

Sewelly The Geordie · 27th April 2012, 01:11

I still think while the TV deal is obviously bad the points difference is exaggerated because both teams each have the best player of their generation playing for them. Sure money will always buy you top class squad but these guys only come around once a generation, it's what is setting them apart more than the money IMO.

I know you could say Madrid have had Zidane etc and Barca have had Ronaldinho etc but these two are both machines that make 90% of teams cannon fodder in a way past world class players haven't - such is their effectiveness and statistical feats.

Mick1991 · 27th April 2012, 01:15

I'm happy with the way it is in the Premier League to be honest......player inflation would get a hell of a lot worse if it was like La Liga.

peterstorey · 27th April 2012, 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojojo

A combination of culture, money, distance and scheduling.

Yeah, thinking about that, the whole English culture of the away coincided with a number of factors in the 60s. There was the boom in wages and disposable income particularly for young guys, the 'our' end solidarity of the Stretford, Kop, Glwadys, Leazes, North Bank etc, the five-day week and cheap rail travel. There's no doubt they they want to sanititise all that and have a token couple of thousand that they can amp up to persuade TV viewers there's away support.

dumbo · 27th April 2012, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brosstan

If those fans had donated money to the club instead of wasting it on tennis balls maybe they wouldnt have had so much problems with gaining a little bit less money from TV rights.

Yes! because the 200 odd Euros used to amass those tennis balls would have had an almighty effect against the hundreds of millions that Barca and Real get for their TV rights.

Raven Blade · 27th April 2012, 01:59

Brilliant.

I hope all the Spanish teams pressure the authorities into making changes. Barcelona and Real Madrid have destroyed their league. It doesn't matter how great their teams are and how entertaining they are to watch. This just ain't fair and it makes all these titles look like hollow victories in my eyes.

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26th April 2012, 15:15	#44 (permalink)
adexkola American Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brooklyn, Connecticut. "Football Was Alright As Long as We Were Winning Everything And Everybody Knew Their Place" Posts: 13,099	I think only Cal? on here is in favor of seperate TV deals. We'd make more money from it that's for sure, but it would destroy the league IMO.

26th April 2012, 15:22	#46 (permalink)
99 red balloons Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: WU203 Posts: 2,546	Does anyone else think that we never get enough credit for not pursuing a similar system here. We'd get about double what the second highest paid team gets. Not saying I want it or agree with the Spanish system, just think a few of the ABUs could do with taking note of how lucky their clubs are compared to teams like Sevilla.

26th April 2012, 15:55	#50 (permalink)
rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The treble gone Posts: 23,006	There are others around who want it, Cal? is the most vocal proponent though. Sponsorship deals, Match-Day income, pretty much everything else gets sold in a club-by-club basis.

26th April 2012, 16:10	#51 (permalink)
adexkola American Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brooklyn, Connecticut. "Football Was Alright As Long as We Were Winning Everything And Everybody Knew Their Place" Posts: 13,099	The NBA in the states distributes equally, with sponsorship deals, jersey sales, and stadium seat sales. With a salary cap and a draft seaosn, it''s as close to a fair system as you'll get.

26th April 2012, 16:19	#52 (permalink)
rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The treble gone Posts: 23,006	Indeed, I wouldn't mind moving towards that model to be honest. United might win half as many league titles, but those league titles would be worth twice as much in my eyes. Certainly I have argued before that sponsorship deals should have a percentage shared. United are valuable because we play in the Premier League, take us out of the Premier League and the DHL deal for example is suddenly a lot less valuable. I think there should always be a percentage which is kept selfishly, as this promotes clubs looking for good deals, and stops them thinking about breaking away.

26th April 2012, 16:44	#54 (permalink)
Trionz Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Jack of All Trades Posts: 8,588	Well done Sevilla. Why can't all teams come together against these deals and protest vigorously? Fans of other clubs should stop going to Nou Camp & Bernabeu.

26th April 2012, 18:35	#64 (permalink)
Brosstan Noggie Pez Dispenser Join Date: May 2011 Location: Chillin with Giggsy at the Retardment Castle Posts: 5,526	If those fans had donated money to the club instead of wasting it on tennis balls maybe they wouldnt have had so much problems with gaining a little bit less money from TV rights.

26th April 2012, 19:01	#66 (permalink)
manutddjw Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 1,617	Does anyone know why alot of La Liga teams don't have shirt sponsors? I find it hard to believe that League 2 teams can get shirt sponsors but some La Liga teams playing in European Competitions can't.

27th April 2012, 01:11	#71 (permalink)
Sewelly The Geordie Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The palm of Mike Ashley's hand Posts: 3,325	I still think while the TV deal is obviously bad the points difference is exaggerated because both teams each have the best player of their generation playing for them. Sure money will always buy you top class squad but these guys only come around once a generation, it's what is setting them apart more than the money IMO. I know you could say Madrid have had Zidane etc and Barca have had Ronaldinho etc but these two are both machines that make 90% of teams cannon fodder in a way past world class players haven't - such is their effectiveness and statistical feats.

27th April 2012, 01:15	#72 (permalink)
Mick1991 First Team Sub Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 6,208	I'm happy with the way it is in the Premier League to be honest......player inflation would get a hell of a lot worse if it was like La Liga.

27th April 2012, 01:59	#75 (permalink)
Raven Blade Dull Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Why do it the easy way? Do it the United way! Posts: 31,951	Brilliant. I hope all the Spanish teams pressure the authorities into making changes. Barcelona and Real Madrid have destroyed their league. It doesn't matter how great their teams are and how entertaining they are to watch. This just ain't fair and it makes all these titles look like hollow victories in my eyes.