Technology to help refs

Simon Adebesi · 9th November 2009, 17:12

A lot of talk about how bad refs are today.

Trying to give this topic a constructuve flavour, how do people think technology could be better utilised in football refereeing? I mean, considering the reservations people have about it, principally, as far as I can ascertain, the way it would slow down play, what would be the right balance of technology to bring in? Enough to satisfy people that the problems we saw yesterday and countless other times are minimised, but not so much that a 90 minute game of football takes 5 hours to play with all the appeals, waiting around for decisions and general stopping and starting associated with the idea?

Sensors on the goal lines seems straight forward enough - that wouldnt presumably have much impact in terms of time, it would just be similar technology to the tennis. Offsides and fouls seem to be the biggest problems in terms of problem decisions, but these will also be the ones that will be hardest to solve with technology, no? Does anyone know anything about this and if/how it could be dealt with?

a_devil_inside · 9th November 2009, 20:14

maybe some refs could try wearing these

ralphie88 · 9th November 2009, 21:14

I'm totally against technology. Football for me is still a spectator sport, not a television one. The idea that fans at the match wouldhave to stand around waiting for Andy fucking Gray to decide whether a goalscorer was offside or not would just spoil the excitement of football for me, like it's taken away from the excitement of the moment someone goes over for a try in Rugby League.

Also, I think bad decisions are part of football. Adds to the drama of it all.

Randall Flagg · 9th November 2009, 21:23

Don’t want it at all. Some go for you others against. It is fine the way it is.

Also the amount of times big calls are still interoperated differently by pundits even watching it from 10 different angles. This would mean a ref could still get it wrong after watching a replay throwing the game into farce.

Raven_Blade · 9th November 2009, 21:25

Very appropriate pic @ a_devil_inside

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

I'm totally against technology. Football for me is still a spectator sport, not a television one. The idea that fans at the match would have to stand around waiting for Andy fucking Gray to decide whether a goalscorer was offside or not would just spoil the excitement of football for me, like it's taken away from the excitement of the moment someone goes over for a try in Rugby League.

Also, I think bad decisions are part of football. Adds to the drama of it all.

Cant say I agree. Anyway who says Andy Gray would be deciding anything? The 4th official should have video replays available to quickly look over the incident and advise the referee of what happened. Thats why they have mics and earpieces after all! It should only be a short delay of seconds, which happens during these big decisions anyway.

At least a satisfactory conclusion can come from it instead of inconsistency due to human error. Ive said before that the tech is already here and the officials should be able to see what we see almost instantly. Anything that improves standards would be fine by me.

Crerand Legend · 9th November 2009, 23:13

This weekend proves something has to be done, cheating has benefited both Chelsea and Liverpool

GDH · 9th November 2009, 23:40

I'm not particularly in favour of technology, although agree that goal line tech. seems like something we really should have. It's not as if it takes any real delay. If the ball crosses the line the ref knows and a goal is given, easy.

In terms of deciding offside and freekicks/penalties I'm not so sure. The problem being that until the ball has gone out of play, the ref can't stop things just in case it isn't offside or a foul, so we'll have situations where players will race on and score only to be given offside 30 seconds later. Unless it's definite, they'd have to always play on, just in case. Players wasting energy and 10 minutes of extra time at the end of each half. I've no interest in seeing this.

I'd much rather the refs just got back up to a half decent level of competance. Up until last season, despite not being fantastic by any means, refs seemed decent enough the majority of the time. Right now every other performance seems to be of a shockingly low level or is riddled with big decisions being made incorrectly. I feel like we've only had maybe 6, 7 or 8 acceptable referees this season, and have been left with a real sense of annoyance at the officials all too often, even when it hasn't adversely affected the outcome. When after a match is won all you can think about is the poor officiating, there's a real problem.

apple-shampoo · 9th November 2009, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

I'm totally against technology. Football for me is still a spectator sport, not a television one. The idea that fans at the match wouldhave to stand around waiting for Andy fucking Gray to decide whether a goalscorer was offside or not would just spoil the excitement of football for me, like it's taken away from the excitement of the moment someone goes over for a try in Rugby League.

Also, I think bad decisions are part of football. Adds to the drama of it all.

This simply isn't true. Rugby league has lost nothing from the introduction of video refereeing decisions.

That said, the only time I think we should ever use video technology in football is on decisions about whether the ball has crossed the goal line or not on tight calls.

Rugby league and football can't really be compared on this issue though.

Legend16 · 9th November 2009, 23:53

yes please. bring it in and get rid of all this incompetence. I can deal with losing but not because some prick is too blind or too gutless to make a call. I'm sure in years to come people will look back and wonder why technology was not brought in before now

Kraftwerker · 9th November 2009, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

I'm totally against technology. Football for me is still a spectator sport, not a television one. The idea that fans at the match wouldhave to stand around waiting for Andy fucking Gray to decide whether a goalscorer was offside or not would just spoil the excitement of football for me, like it's taken away from the excitement of the moment someone goes over for a try in Rugby League.

Also, I think bad decisions are part of football. Adds to the drama of it all.

It would only be for controversial decisions.

I'm not sure if I'm for it or not, but if it was introduced I would like to see the tennis model where a team has 3 challenges per half (or maybe just 3 per match, I'm not sure).

If they are wrong, they lose their challenge, and if they are right, they keep it. This would prevent teams challenging every little decision, in case they lose challenges which they may need later if a big decision goes against them.

Ivor Ballokov · 9th November 2009, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by apple-shampoo

That said, the only time I think we should ever use video technology in football is on decisions about whether the ball has crossed the goal line or not on tight calls.

I'd agree with you but only tentatively, would have to see it working first but I'd say for those calls it would probably be fine.

For other decisions it would never work, the amount of times I sit arguing at the tv because your commentators can't see a blatant offside/onside even with a barrell of replays is numerous and we'd have all the same problems.

Tumbling-Dice · 10th November 2009, 00:07

I'm firmly in the yes camp.

RedKaos · 10th November 2009, 00:20

My position had always been against it, but now I say fuck it, bring it in. Officiating has been desperately poor and its cost teams valuable points - I would be fuming if my team had been relegated due to a Gerrard-esque dive.

RedCanuck · 10th November 2009, 05:29

The Chelsea match showed in 90 minutes exactly the problems with refereeing today. Twice (at least) the linesman/referee failed to manage an offside decision correctly. One on Rooney and the other (tellingly) on the goal. Add the failure to award a penalty against Terry for the pull on Valencia and you can see how the referee needs more sets of eyes in order to administer the game. Where the linesman was during the Terry foul God only knows.

The game today cannot be officiated properly by the same-old referee and 2 linesman. That configuration of officials is just not capable of correctly calling the rules that are in place.

Any technology that can begin to address the deficiencies in officiating would be welcome.

amir51 · 10th November 2009, 05:40

I like Ralphie point. Spectator sport. I suggest why not have two refs? one in each half of the field. They will be less tired. And since they don't have to run all the way up and down, they can position themselves much better if they only need to cover up to the half line.

7even · 10th November 2009, 06:32

When players and ma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

I'm totally against technology. Football for me is still a spectator sport, not a television one. The idea that fans at the match wouldhave to stand around waiting for Andy fucking Gray to decide whether a goalscorer was offside or not would just spoil the excitement of football for me, like it's taken away from the excitement of the moment someone goes over for a try in Rugby League.

Also, I think bad decisions are part of football. Adds to the drama of it all.

Agree.

But It's important to remember that refs are human with feelings. At the moment Sir Alex are very critical against the officials when we loose but not very supportive when we benifit from "bad" decision's. Nobody like's to be criticized, especially not in front of worldwide television. So even if a ref should be neutral it's natural that he will be affected.

So maybe SAF pay the price for all his moaning. Not fair but very human.

Freak · 10th November 2009, 06:54

Bad decisions are part of football, Yes. However, there seems to be too much of it being committed. And it's not just this season. It's started from two seasons ago. It is a problem, that cannot be ignored. It is costing teams points. There seem to be controversy in refereeing decisions in every match. Something needs to be done, and if that something is technology, then I'm all for it.

Denis' cuff · 10th November 2009, 07:56

another convert here - it should only take 30 seconds max to re-run an offside decision. You can give the forward the benefit for offsides and then take a look at a re-run if there were doubts. A limit of appeals for each side would have to be imposed though.

Alex · 10th November 2009, 08:13

I think this would go a long way to ruining the game, two wrongs dont make a right. Part of the reason why I love watching football is for the flow of the game, to create a rule that could change seems downright blasphemous.

Denis' cuff · 10th November 2009, 09:14

Not sending Carragher off and ruling Rooney offside was fuckin blasphemous

green demon · 10th November 2009, 10:12

I think the best thing is for the tennis system to be introduced where each team is allowed two challenges per half. Only the captain should be allowed to make the challenge, other players will not be allowed to talk to the referee unless the ref speaks to them.

If the challenge is good, e.g. United appeal for the penalty against Terry or against the "goal" Chelsea were gifted then the challenges remain intact and you still have two. If the ref had not awarded the penalty last night and Liverpool appealed then they would lose one of their challenges.

This could always be administered by the fourth official, who would have nothing else to do at the time and there is always a TV monitor nearby.

The only problem is lower down the league where there is no television. That would still have to be done the old, prone to human error, way. But, to be honest, no-one would know as there would be no footage to go over and over from each angle, and, to be fair, too few people would care to worry the authorities.

9th November 2009, 17:12	#1 (permalink)
Simon Adebesi Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth. Posts: 4,574	Technology to help refs <a href="http://d.mediadakine.com/ck.php?n=ad232b97&cb=54307" target="_blank"><img src="http://d.mediadakine.com/avw.php?zoneid=81&cb=54307&n=ad232b97" border="0" alt="" /></a> A lot of talk about how bad refs are today. Trying to give this topic a constructuve flavour, how do people think technology could be better utilised in football refereeing? I mean, considering the reservations people have about it, principally, as far as I can ascertain, the way it would slow down play, what would be the right balance of technology to bring in? Enough to satisfy people that the problems we saw yesterday and countless other times are minimised, but not so much that a 90 minute game of football takes 5 hours to play with all the appeals, waiting around for decisions and general stopping and starting associated with the idea? Sensors on the goal lines seems straight forward enough - that wouldnt presumably have much impact in terms of time, it would just be similar technology to the tennis. Offsides and fouls seem to be the biggest problems in terms of problem decisions, but these will also be the ones that will be hardest to solve with technology, no? Does anyone know anything about this and if/how it could be dealt with?

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9th November 2009, 20:14	#2 (permalink)
a_devil_inside Big footed hermaphrodite Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Little Britain Posts: 29,984	maybe some refs could try wearing these

9th November 2009, 21:14	#3 (permalink)
ralphie88 Cat smeller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Stretford Posts: 13,126	I'm totally against technology. Football for me is still a spectator sport, not a television one. The idea that fans at the match wouldhave to stand around waiting for Andy fucking Gray to decide whether a goalscorer was offside or not would just spoil the excitement of football for me, like it's taken away from the excitement of the moment someone goes over for a try in Rugby League. Also, I think bad decisions are part of football. Adds to the drama of it all.

9th November 2009, 21:23	#4 (permalink)
Randall Flagg Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Co. Wexford Posts: 2,519	Don’t want it at all. Some go for you others against. It is fine the way it is. Also the amount of times big calls are still interoperated differently by pundits even watching it from 10 different angles. This would mean a ref could still get it wrong after watching a replay throwing the game into farce.

9th November 2009, 23:13	#6 (permalink)
Crerand Legend Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,965	This weekend proves something has to be done, cheating has benefited both Chelsea and Liverpool

9th November 2009, 23:40	#7 (permalink)
GDH Reserve Team Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 875	I'm not particularly in favour of technology, although agree that goal line tech. seems like something we really should have. It's not as if it takes any real delay. If the ball crosses the line the ref knows and a goal is given, easy. In terms of deciding offside and freekicks/penalties I'm not so sure. The problem being that until the ball has gone out of play, the ref can't stop things just in case it isn't offside or a foul, so we'll have situations where players will race on and score only to be given offside 30 seconds later. Unless it's definite, they'd have to always play on, just in case. Players wasting energy and 10 minutes of extra time at the end of each half. I've no interest in seeing this. I'd much rather the refs just got back up to a half decent level of competance. Up until last season, despite not being fantastic by any means, refs seemed decent enough the majority of the time. Right now every other performance seems to be of a shockingly low level or is riddled with big decisions being made incorrectly. I feel like we've only had maybe 6, 7 or 8 acceptable referees this season, and have been left with a real sense of annoyance at the officials all too often, even when it hasn't adversely affected the outcome. When after a match is won all you can think about is the poor officiating, there's a real problem.

9th November 2009, 23:53	#9 (permalink)
Legend16 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,919	yes please. bring it in and get rid of all this incompetence. I can deal with losing but not because some prick is too blind or too gutless to make a call. I'm sure in years to come people will look back and wonder why technology was not brought in before now

10th November 2009, 00:07	#12 (permalink)
Tumbling-Dice Caf Nostradamus Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Nani see it, Nani don't. Call the police, I'd like to report a gangrape in North London. Posts: 13,464	I'm firmly in the yes camp.

10th November 2009, 00:20	#13 (permalink)
RedKaos First Team Sub Join Date: May 2007 Location: Justice Posts: 6,625	My position had always been against it, but now I say fuck it, bring it in. Officiating has been desperately poor and its cost teams valuable points - I would be fuming if my team had been relegated due to a Gerrard-esque dive.

10th November 2009, 05:29	#14 (permalink)
RedCanuck First Team Sub Join Date: May 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,905	The Chelsea match showed in 90 minutes exactly the problems with refereeing today. Twice (at least) the linesman/referee failed to manage an offside decision correctly. One on Rooney and the other (tellingly) on the goal. Add the failure to award a penalty against Terry for the pull on Valencia and you can see how the referee needs more sets of eyes in order to administer the game. Where the linesman was during the Terry foul God only knows. The game today cannot be officiated properly by the same-old referee and 2 linesman. That configuration of officials is just not capable of correctly calling the rules that are in place. Any technology that can begin to address the deficiencies in officiating would be welcome.

10th November 2009, 05:40	#15 (permalink)
amir51 Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,595	I like Ralphie point. Spectator sport. I suggest why not have two refs? one in each half of the field. They will be less tired. And since they don't have to run all the way up and down, they can position themselves much better if they only need to cover up to the half line.

10th November 2009, 06:54	#17 (permalink)
Freak Born a freak always a freak. Join Date: May 2004 Location: C.Ronaldo > England! Posts: 8,957	Bad decisions are part of football, Yes. However, there seems to be too much of it being committed. And it's not just this season. It's started from two seasons ago. It is a problem, that cannot be ignored. It is costing teams points. There seem to be controversy in refereeing decisions in every match. Something needs to be done, and if that something is technology, then I'm all for it.

10th November 2009, 07:56	#18 (permalink)
Denis' cuff Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,287	another convert here - it should only take 30 seconds max to re-run an offside decision. You can give the forward the benefit for offsides and then take a look at a re-run if there were doubts. A limit of appeals for each side would have to be imposed though.

10th November 2009, 08:13	#19 (permalink)
Alex Spam Alert! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Dances With Smurfs Posts: 34,159	I think this would go a long way to ruining the game, two wrongs dont make a right. Part of the reason why I love watching football is for the flow of the game, to create a rule that could change seems downright blasphemous.

10th November 2009, 09:14	#20 (permalink)
Denis' cuff Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,287	Not sending Carragher off and ruling Rooney offside was fuckin blasphemous

10th November 2009, 10:12	#21 (permalink)
green demon Caf Nostradamous 2008 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: I wouldn't sell that Mob a virus for less than 80 million. Posts: 6,822	I think the best thing is for the tennis system to be introduced where each team is allowed two challenges per half. Only the captain should be allowed to make the challenge, other players will not be allowed to talk to the referee unless the ref speaks to them. If the challenge is good, e.g. United appeal for the penalty against Terry or against the "goal" Chelsea were gifted then the challenges remain intact and you still have two. If the ref had not awarded the penalty last night and Liverpool appealed then they would lose one of their challenges. This could always be administered by the fourth official, who would have nothing else to do at the time and there is always a TV monitor nearby. The only problem is lower down the league where there is no television. That would still have to be done the old, prone to human error, way. But, to be honest, no-one would know as there would be no footage to go over and over from each angle, and, to be fair, too few people would care to worry the authorities.