Terry Racism Trial | Pleads Not Guilty | Loses England captaincy | Fabio disagrees

RedMist99 · 2nd February 2012, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by antihenry

Why should he step down? Terry claims he hasn't done what he's been accused of. Does 'innocent till proven guilty' mean nothing anymore?

Personally, I wish Terry and the rest of Chelsea players would stay out of the England team. That way, when they inevitably fuck up once again in another major tournament, the press and rival fans would look to lay the blame on someone else.

You think Chelsea players are scapegoats after England failing miserably at tournaments?

Laughable. We've had to put up with that shit for the last 14 years

kietotheworld · 2nd February 2012, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMist99

You think Chelsea players are scapegoats after England failing miserably at tournaments?

Laughable. We've had to put up with that shit for the last 14 years

Along with Ronaldo, Lampard got it in the neck for England's failure in 2006, but apart from that it is normally United players who get the most criticism.

africanspur · 2nd February 2012, 14:36

Its not United or Chelsea or any specific club that gets the most criticism. They just go after the players who have made the most 'obvious' mistake ie, getting sent off in the losing match, or players who we know play at world class levels in the domestic league and then play like sunday league players in international tournaments.

Pogue Mahone · 2nd February 2012, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

Along with Ronaldo, Lampard got it in the neck for England's failure in 2006, but apart from that it is normally United players who get the most criticism.

Really? You think Lampard was perceived as being more to blame than Rooney?

Pexbo · 2nd February 2012, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kietotheworld

Along with Ronaldo, Lampard got it in the neck for England's failure in 2006, but apart from that it is normally United players who get the most criticism.

Was that the tournament he had something like 25 shots and failed to score a single goal. I can recall being extremely frustrated with him at the time and calling him naive because rather than trying to dictate the play and pass like we needed our midfield to he was shooting time and time again and it was hopeless. He deserved to be "scapegoat" in that tournament because he was selfish and shite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Really? You think Lampard was perceived as being more to blame than Rooney?

Also this.

adexkola · 2nd February 2012, 14:50

Rooney didn't get any flack from 2006. The vitriol was all directed at Ronaldo

kietotheworld · 2nd February 2012, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone

Really? You think Lampard was perceived as being more to blame than Rooney?

I don't think either them was really perceived as being to blame, I actually thought Rooney got off quite lightly. There was a perception that the red card was unfair, and most of the blame for it went to Ronaldo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pexbo

Was that the tournament he had something like 25 shots and failed to score a single goal. I can recall being extremely frustrated with him at the time and calling him naive because rather than trying to dictate the play and pass like we needed our midfield to he was shooting time and time again and it was hopeless. He deserved to be "scapegoat" in that tournament because he was selfish and shite.

Yeah, fair enough he had a shite tournament.

Vidic_In_Moscow · 2nd February 2012, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

Its not United or Chelsea or any specific club that gets the most criticism. They just go after the players who have made the most 'obvious' mistake ie, getting sent off in the losing match, or players who we know play at world class levels in the domestic league and then play like sunday league players in international tournaments.

Don't try to be rational here.. it's so funny watching fans always claim that their club is the one who is treated unfairly, or receive media hate, FA hate etc and then laugh when fans of other clubs do it.. they can do it all day!

Zen · 2nd February 2012, 15:03

Terrys lucky, as Rooney being suspended for the first two matches means he will already be the scapegoat when England due to lack of harmony with John Terry there. Headlines are already written "Didn't show up in the world cup, didn't show up here!"

Lampard has never truly been a scapegoat in the slightest, him and Gerrard have taken it equally with the "can't work in a 442" stuff, but he's never been individually targeted like Rooney and well 10x more so Beckham was, and neither has John Terry.

africanspur · 2nd February 2012, 15:08

Oh dear, is there any set of fans who do not believe that the entire world is out to get their club?

Zen · 2nd February 2012, 15:11

Probably not, but no other team has a set of anti-fans that are so common that you can mention the abbreviation and 90% of football fans know what you are talking about.

Liam147 · 2nd February 2012, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by adexkola

Rooney didn't get any flack from 2006. The vitriol was all directed at Ronaldo

Rubbish.

"10 heroic lions. One stupid boy." was aimed at Beckham when we went out in 1998, and I believe the daily mail went for something in a similar vein in 2006. Yes Ronaldo got roundly booed at every football ground in England, but it didn't save Rooney from the blame, everyone just had another scapegoat.

It's also wrong that Chelsea players get all the blame (I know it wasn't you who made this point), John Terry isn't sarcastically nicknamed 'Lionheart' for no reason. He's England's saviour, our hero, our captain. Lampard on the other hand has regularly been subject to criticism, for not performing to the same standards he did/does at Chelsea.

Personally I don't agree that any particular team gets unfavourable press for no reason. Look at Owen Hargreaves. "That Canadian-born, German-based lad who's never even lived in England, why's he in our team," we grumbled, until that performance (funnily enough, against Portugal) earned him MOTM, and deserved recognition from the media. Just goes to show you can overturn a reputation for England.

africanspur · 2nd February 2012, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

Probably not, but no other team has a set of anti-fans that are so common that you can mention the abbreviation and 90% of football fans know what you are talking about.

What abbreviation?

adexkola · 2nd February 2012, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam147

Rubbish.

"10 heroic lions. One stupid boy." was aimed at Beckham when we went out in 1998, and I believe the daily mail went for something in a similar vein in 2006. Yes Ronaldo got roundly booed at every football ground in England, but it didn't save Rooney from the blame, everyone just had another scapegoat.

It's also wrong that Chelsea players get all the blame (I know it wasn't you who made this point), John Terry isn't sarcastically nicknamed 'Lionheart' for no reason. He's England's saviour, our hero, our captain. Lampard on the other hand has regularly been subject to criticism, for not performing to the same standards he did/does at Chelsea.

Personally I don't agree that any particular team gets unfavourable press for no reason. Look at Owen Hargreaves. "That Canadian-born, German-based lad who's never even lived in England, why's he in our team," we grumbled, until that performance (funnily enough, against Portugal) earned him MOTM, and deserved recognition from the media. Just goes to show you can overturn a reputation for England.

I think we're saying the same thing

Liam147 · 2nd February 2012, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by adexkola

I think we're saying the same thing

You said he didn't get any flack, I said he did. The rest of my post was more of a general one.

antihenry · 2nd February 2012, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

Oh dear, is there any set of fans who do not believe that the entire world is out to get their club?

I don't believe in any anti-Chelsea conspiracies, I just don't want an added pressure on our English players, and with British media it's a neverending hysteria. Since I'm not English myself, I couldn't care less whether the national team does well or not.

Zen · 2nd February 2012, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

What abbreviation?

good old ABU

ArmchairCritic · 2nd February 2012, 15:46

Some interesting tweets on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio Ferdinand

Morning world!! I feel insulted....woke up with a bad taste in my mouth....its a god damn joke!
7 hours ago

Is Rio on about the Terry situation or did he just have something dodgy to eat last night.

RedNev with some interesting points too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.Neville

@DickinsonTimes Interesting this one.Takes me back to Rio/Palios/Strike!
7 hours ago

The stance then was player charged/arrested for whatever offence not allowed to play until case determined.FA then changed policy post Rio.
7 hours ago

@DickinsonTimes No. I see with this one the issue of potential splits in camp but that is for manager/players. FA have to have their hearing
7 hours ago

@DickinsonTimes or wait till after the trial. To ban without process is to sentence. That's what I fought for back then and I still believe.
7 hours ago

@DickinsonTimes Where is the tipping point? Who decides the tipping point? Ive seen young men accused of rape/GBH and all proven to be bull
7 hours ago

@DickinsonTimes 2 months later . Only certainty is process and the system. FA shouldn't intervene Pre process. Manager or Players can IMO
7 hours ago

@DickinsonTimes act if it affects the performance of the team/individual.
7 hours ago

@DickinsonTimes Only The current manager and players can answer that. My war is over!
6 hours ago

Difficult situation but it's up to Capello, he needs to have dialogue with the squad and see if this is an issue, if it is he should strip him of the captaincy and drop him from the squad simple as. As much as I dislike Terry I agree with Gary's sentiments.

mustaine · 2nd February 2012, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffer

That tin hat of yours is a bit tight today methinks.

I wasn't really being serious... sounded like a good Liverpool-like conspiracy theory

Zen · 3rd February 2012, 04:34

Being forced to step down. Only Rooney, Wilshere, Hart and Cole are the other guaranteed starters tbh and 2 of probably won't be in the first(and second game) for the Euros.

God this means they'll give it to Lampard or Gerrard, thus keeping them as starters even if it won't work should Parker, Wilshere, Rooney all be available.

esmufc12 · 3rd February 2012, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhed

John Terry won't face trial for Racial Abuse until after Euro2012, so he's free to lead his country into Poland. Just like his hero did.

Ubik · 3rd February 2012, 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

Being forced to step down. Only Rooney, Wilshere, Hart and Cole are the other guaranteed starters tbh and 2 of probably won't be in the first(and second game) for the Euros.

God this means they'll give it to Lampard or Gerrard, thus keeping them as starters even if it won't work should Parker, Wilshere, Rooney all be available.

Probably end up being Barry *shudder*

mariachi-19 · 3rd February 2012, 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

Being forced to step down. Only Rooney, Wilshere, Hart and Cole are the other guaranteed starters tbh and 2 of probably won't be in the first(and second game) for the Euros.

God this means they'll give it to Lampard or Gerrard, thus keeping them as starters even if it won't work should Parker, Wilshere, Rooney all be available.

How about giving it to Michael Carrick. He's been the best English player this year and is approaching an age where he's one of the major senior players for both United and potentially England.

Edmeiste · 3rd February 2012, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by marchi-91

How about giving it to Michael Carrick. He's been the best English player this year and is approaching an age where he's one of the major senior players for both United and potentially England.

It would be criminal if Capello left Carrick out of the Euros. No Carrick and England dont stand much of a chance to really progress. Hope Fabio opens his eyes

Brophs · 3rd February 2012, 10:29

So if the papers really do have the inside line on this then Terry is going to lose the captaincy. It seems like they've just bowed to the media again. If they believe he'll be a disruptive influence then be shouldn't be going at all. Though I'm uncomfortable with the idea of effectively 'punishing' someone before they're found guilty. I appreciate the argument about people in private industry being suspended if they faced similar allegations but the situations aren't the same. In short, I'm not really sure what I'd do if it was my decision.

Sean_RedDevil · 3rd February 2012, 10:50

Quote:

JT’s England future is in Rio’s hands

John Terry's international future could well be in the hands of Rio Ferdinand.
Literally.

Should the Manchester United star decide not to shake Terry's hand before Sunday's game with Chelsea at Stamford Bridge many will believe there is little way Terry can continue as England captain.

Little way, in fact, that he can even be selected as a player for Euro 2012.

It would certainly seem impossible for Ferdinand and Terry to co-exist in the same England dressing room.

Should Ferdinand snub Terry it will be seen as support for his brother Anton and a sign of what he believes to be his moral responsibility towards a black community for whom he is an idol and spokesman.

It would also create an enormous schism in football in general and the England camp in particular.

The day after the case that sees Terry charged with alleged racial abuse of Anton Ferdinand was put back to July 9 — eight days after the end of the Euros — Rio tweeted: "I feel insulted... woke up with a bad taste in my mouth... its a god damn joke!"

Far from easing the FA's position, the five-month delay in court procedure has landed in their lap like a hand grenade.

The news was greeted with immediate calls for Terry to be stripped of the captaincy until the hearing is over.

That, in the current climate, any charge of racism is so serious Terry cannot continue to be the leader of the team.

The FA are caught in a cleft stick as they know the legal absolute is that every man is innocent until proven guilty.

And that if they do remove the captaincy from Terry before the case is held it will be setting a precedent should any other member of the squad face court proceedings themselves between now and the European Championship.

The FA will have taken on board the words of Piara Power, the head of Football Against Racism in Europe, who insisted the seriousness of the allegations means Terry cannot captain England in Poland and Ukraine.

Power added that, in his opinion, there was no danger of any pre-emptive FA action prejudicing the outcome of Terry's case. They will also have noticed the warning from Reading's Jason Roberts, an increasing influence in the media, that Terry's continuation as skipper will make the dressing room "toxic".

Yes, they might choose to play this down as it does not come from within the players' inner sanctum itself.

That, though, will change if the older Ferdinand chooses to ignore Terry's outstretched hand on Sunday.

That WILL be a message from a powerful corner of the England dressing room.

From a player — and former skipper — with a huge standing among his international team-mates, greater even than Terry himself.

Rio is seen very much as a leader of the black community, having set up the Rio Ferdinand Live the Dream Foundation in 2009 to help young people from depressed communities seeking careers in sport and entertainment.

He also worked with Thierry Henry on the Stand Up, Speak Up project against racism and the Give Racism The Red Card campaign.

In a BBC Radio interview, he also criticised FIFA's approach to tackling racism in football, saying not enough was being done to punish those guilty of racist or homophobic abuse at games.

Just recently, he said he was "astonished" at Sepp Blatter's claim there was no racism in football — and that, if there were, any incidents should be settled by a handshake at the end of the game.

Ferdinand was famously dropped by England for missing a drugs test in September 2003 — even before being charged by the FA, a rap which led to an eight-month ban from all football.

Ironically, it was Terry who replaced him for the 2004 European Championship.

He was also overlooked when Fabio Capello made Terry his first captain, only to be promoted in Terry's place when the Chelsea captain had the armband removed after the fall-out of the Wayne Bridge Affair.

Rio's hopes of leading England in the 2010 World Cup were then dashed by a knee injury in the squad's first training session in South Africa.

Steven Gerrard took over only for Capello to reinstate Terry in March 2011. I said at the time this was a huge mistake.

The compromise is that Terry should voluntarily stand down as captain and make himself available for selection — if picked.

Few see this as likely since it could be seen as an admission of guilt when he appears before Westminster Magistrates. Terry this week formally denied making any racist statement.

Should Terry continue, Rio himself could decide his only viable course of action — his only moral stance — was to announce his own international retirement.

We will find out more on Sunday.

The Sun

..

Sean_RedDevil · 3rd February 2012, 10:54

Quote:

Oliver Kay on Twitter
Here we go .... John Terry has been stripped of the England captaincy. He was informed of FA board decision by David Bernstein at 10am

Quote:

Richard Conway on Twitter
Reports that John Terry has lost England captaincy again but The FA are refusing to comment.

..

Quote:

Henry Winter on Twitter
Terry loses #eng captaincy. I can't see how he can even go to Euros now. FA fears about dressing-room dynamic & media circus would remain.

Quote:

Matt Lawton on Twitter
FA have made the right call taking captaincy off Terry again. By no means an easy decision but the correct one.

Quote:

Oliver Holt on Twitter
Terry will fight to clear his name but until he can do that, big risk of splits in a multi-racial England dressing room. Correct decision

Lance Uppercut · 3rd February 2012, 10:55

On the BBC now.

I'm always right · 3rd February 2012, 10:55

Yep, confirmed now.

I'm always right · 3rd February 2012, 10:56

Better to leave him out of the squad now imho.

MacMUFC · 3rd February 2012, 10:56

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

.......

Hahahahahahahaha. What a wanker.

Zen · 3rd February 2012, 10:58

Confirmed?

marjen · 3rd February 2012, 10:59

I seriously don't get this. How incompetent are the FA?

They're surely not going to take Terry to the Euros now, possibly playing alongside Rio in the heart of the defence?

What excactly is the point? Do they deliberately set themselves up to fail miserably every single time? Is John Terry in his current incarnation a good enough player to make the inevitable media circus and disruptance to the squad worthwhile? He's been playing like shit on a stick for 6 months straight for crying out loud!

Wilshere out injured, the best English CM by far this year not getting a look in, Rooney banned for the first two games, a serious danger of Glen Johnson appearing in the Euros.. And now this token captaincy-pisstake. How can this end well?

Poor, poor Capello. He's got no chance, has he?

Sean_RedDevil · 3rd February 2012, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Better to leave him out of the squad now imho.

It's impossible that he goes to the Euros now imo.

I'm always right · 3rd February 2012, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by marjen

I seriously don't get this. How incompetent are the FA?

They're surely not going to take Terry to the Euros now, possibly playing alongside Rio in the heart of the defence?

What excactly is the point? Do they deliberately set themselves up to fail miserably every single time? Is John Terry in his current incarnation a good enough player to make the inevitable media circus and disruptance to the squad worthwhile? He's been playing like shit on a stick for 6 months straight for crying out loud!

Wilshere out injured, the best English CM by far this year not getting a look in, Rooney banned for the first two games, a serious danger of Glen Johnson appearing in the Euros.. And now this token captaincy-pisstake. How can this end well?

Poor, poor Capello. He's got no chance, has he?

What do you think was the right decision?

Personally I say leave him out, Smalling is better anyway. Give youth a chance.

adexkola · 3rd February 2012, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brophs

So if the papers really do have the inside line on this then Terry is going to lose the captaincy. It seems like they've just bowed to the media again. If they believe he'll be a disruptive influence then be shouldn't be going at all. Though I'm uncomfortable with the idea of effectively 'punishing' someone before they're found guilty. I appreciate the argument about people in private industry being suspended if they faced similar allegations but the situations aren't the same. In short, I'm not really sure what I'd do if it was my decision.

It's nonsense. It's like a girl accusing Smalling of rape, and they suspend him from the team until... you know what? I can't be bothered defending Terry

towcester_red · 3rd February 2012, 11:01

Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

Englands Lion

Has anyone ever been sacked as captain twice?

Stanley Road · 3rd February 2012, 11:02

Why should he not go to the euro's?

adexkola · 3rd February 2012, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

What do you think was the right decision?

Personally I say leave him out, Smalling is better anyway. Give youth a chance.

You're not thinking right I say.

I'm always right · 3rd February 2012, 11:02

Hart

Jones Smalling Rio Cole

Parker Carrick
Wilshire

Struddige Welbeck
Rooney(c)

Swap Parker for Tom if he comes back strongly, or Wilshire for Tom if the Arsenal player doesn't make it/find form in time.

The future!

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2nd February 2012, 14:36	#683 (permalink)
africanspur Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,492	Its not United or Chelsea or any specific club that gets the most criticism. They just go after the players who have made the most 'obvious' mistake ie, getting sent off in the losing match, or players who we know play at world class levels in the domestic league and then play like sunday league players in international tournaments.

2nd February 2012, 14:50	#686 (permalink)
adexkola First Team Sub Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brooklyn, Connecticut. Onwards and upwards. "Take me home, United Road." Posts: 9,810	Rooney didn't get any flack from 2006. The vitriol was all directed at Ronaldo

2nd February 2012, 15:03	#689 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	Terrys lucky, as Rooney being suspended for the first two matches means he will already be the scapegoat when England due to lack of harmony with John Terry there. Headlines are already written "Didn't show up in the world cup, didn't show up here!" Lampard has never truly been a scapegoat in the slightest, him and Gerrard have taken it equally with the "can't work in a 442" stuff, but he's never been individually targeted like Rooney and well 10x more so Beckham was, and neither has John Terry.

2nd February 2012, 15:08	#690 (permalink)
africanspur Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,492	Oh dear, is there any set of fans who do not believe that the entire world is out to get their club?

2nd February 2012, 15:11	#691 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	Probably not, but no other team has a set of anti-fans that are so common that you can mention the abbreviation and 90% of football fans know what you are talking about.

3rd February 2012, 04:34	#700 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	Being forced to step down. Only Rooney, Wilshere, Hart and Cole are the other guaranteed starters tbh and 2 of probably won't be in the first(and second game) for the Euros. God this means they'll give it to Lampard or Gerrard, thus keeping them as starters even if it won't work should Parker, Wilshere, Rooney all be available.

3rd February 2012, 10:29	#705 (permalink)
Brophs Brewlio's fugly sister Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Why don't we just kill Badger? Posts: 27,712	So if the papers really do have the inside line on this then Terry is going to lose the captaincy. It seems like they've just bowed to the media again. If they believe he'll be a disruptive influence then be shouldn't be going at all. Though I'm uncomfortable with the idea of effectively 'punishing' someone before they're found guilty. I appreciate the argument about people in private industry being suspended if they faced similar allegations but the situations aren't the same. In short, I'm not really sure what I'd do if it was my decision.

3rd February 2012, 10:55	#708 (permalink)
Lance Uppercut First Team Regular Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NOBODY, calls Dugan a turd. Posts: 19,765	On the BBC now.

3rd February 2012, 10:55	#709 (permalink)
I'm always right Three-Headed Monkey Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mêlée Island Posts: 11,307	Yep, confirmed now.

3rd February 2012, 10:56	#710 (permalink)
I'm always right Three-Headed Monkey Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mêlée Island Posts: 11,307	Better to leave him out of the squad now imho.

3rd February 2012, 10:56	#711 (permalink)
MacMUFC Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,370	Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ....... Hahahahahahahaha. What a wanker.

3rd February 2012, 10:58	#712 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	Confirmed?

3rd February 2012, 10:59	#713 (permalink)
marjen Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: at the back post, lurking around, waiting for an easy tap-in. Posts: 3,627	I seriously don't get this. How incompetent are the FA? They're surely not going to take Terry to the Euros now, possibly playing alongside Rio in the heart of the defence? What excactly is the point? Do they deliberately set themselves up to fail miserably every single time? Is John Terry in his current incarnation a good enough player to make the inevitable media circus and disruptance to the squad worthwhile? He's been playing like shit on a stick for 6 months straight for crying out loud! Wilshere out injured, the best English CM by far this year not getting a look in, Rooney banned for the first two games, a serious danger of Glen Johnson appearing in the Euros.. And now this token captaincy-pisstake. How can this end well? Poor, poor Capello. He's got no chance, has he?

3rd February 2012, 11:01	#717 (permalink)
towcester_red Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: wayne rooney wonderland Posts: 3,951	Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Englands Lion Has anyone ever been sacked as captain twice?

3rd February 2012, 11:02	#718 (permalink)
Stanley Road I.C.F. Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: It is better to remain poor than to have been rich and lost it all Posts: 27,378	Why should he not go to the euro's?

3rd February 2012, 11:02	#720 (permalink)
I'm always right Three-Headed Monkey Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mêlée Island Posts: 11,307	Hart Jones Smalling Rio Cole Parker Carrick Wilshire Struddige Welbeck Rooney(c) Swap Parker for Tom if he comes back strongly, or Wilshire for Tom if the Arsenal player doesn't make it/find form in time. The future!