Terry Racism Trial | Pleads Not Guilty | Loses England captaincy | Fabio disagrees

marjen · 3rd February 2012, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marching

Spot on!

Bloody stupid to say he can't captain the side but we think he's OK to represent his country.

I'm amazed people see this as some sort of punishment really.

It's to have their backs covered whatever the public opinion is, and whatever the outcome of his eventuel trial is. They can say that they did punish him if found guilty, while they can claim they stripped him of the captaincy to "avoid disruptancy to the squad" if he's not.

KingEric7 · 3rd February 2012, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brophs

It's easy for me to say as I'm not English, but if they had any sense they'd fill that squad with young players like Jones, Smalling, Welbeck et al and give them games. It's the only way they'll become comfortable playing together. No team England select is going further than the semis, so why not build something for the future?

Exactly. The England team has a fantastic young crop of players, and any England manager would do well to take note of that. I mean, the potential is obvious:

Smalling
Walker
Jones
Cleverley
Welbeck
Wilshere

There are more, but all 6 of these players have a genuine shot of becoming absolutely top drawer. Smalling is pretty much there already for fuck's sake. We might not win anything, but we'll never win anything anyway with the current lot.

Plechazunga · 3rd February 2012, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeUpNorth

I'd take the following defenders to the Euros:
Smalling
Ferdinand
King
Cahill
Cole
Baines
Lescott
Jones

Richards has to go. And taking both Rio and King is a hell of a gamble.

MikeUpNorth · 3rd February 2012, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plechazunga

Richards has to go. And taking both Rio and King is a hell of a gamble.

I'm a gambler. But I guess Richards could come in for King, though I just don't like Richards, he's always caught out of position.

I'm always right · 3rd February 2012, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanspur

I'm not sure how Jones can be number one right back when he doesn't even start there week in week out for his club.

He starts there enough, and he's fucking Boss.

Seriously, I'm no fan of Richards. It'd be Walker for me.

99 red balloons · 3rd February 2012, 13:59

When I was in the Newbs in October - the thread on this got shut down after about 10 minutes with a "he said blind - this is a non-story, end of thread" closing quote from the mod.

The general consensus in the immediate aftermath on the internet was the same. Bet he wishes he'd have just gone with that now.

Stanley Road · 3rd February 2012, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Missing the point purposely for an argument?

.

Not at all

here and now doesn't mean 12 months previous

sammsky1 · 3rd February 2012, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by adexkola

The FA could easily have just fudged the issue. They have not.

Zen · 3rd February 2012, 14:47

I'd play Jones at right back before I'd play him at centre back....Smalling is more ready for centre back.....despite getting insane praise and put in a lot of half-season teams of the year, Jones hasn't anywhere near the standards he had at Blackburn at CB for us, midfield and right back....sure he's been better on a consistent, but at CB, he's shown his inexperience far more than Smalling has.

But still, I'd love for him to just run with them two together now, not like Cahill, Terry or even Rio have been rocks this year either.

acnumber9 · 3rd February 2012, 15:31

Cue Terry scoring at the weekend and pointing to his armband like only a big man could do.

Neutral · 3rd February 2012, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by acnumber9

Cue Terry scoring at the weekend and pointing to his armband like only a big man could do.

He's out injured with a knee problem.

Kraftwerker · 3rd February 2012, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99 red balloons

When I was in the Newbs in October - the thread on this got shut down after about 10 minutes with a "he said blind - this is a non-story, end of thread" closing quote from the mod.

The general consensus in the immediate aftermath on the internet was the same. Bet he wishes he'd have just gone with that now.

antihenry moderates the newbies?

rednev · 3rd February 2012, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammsky1

The FA could easily have just fudged the issue. They have not.

But what people seem to be missing is that they're not doing it to punish Terry or to make a stand against racism. They can't do that until he's been found guilty, and rightly so. He has been removed of the captaincy because it wouldn't be inappropriate for him to captain his country with a criminal trial just around the corner - it would obviously be highly distracting for everyone.

Sean_RedDevil · 3rd February 2012, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeUpNorth

I'd take the following defenders to the Euros:
Smalling
Ferdinand
King
Cahill
Cole
Baines
Lescott
Jones

I love King as a player, but 1) it was gamble at the last World Cup and he was already injured after the first game......we can't go with Ferdinand and King to the tournament and 2) it would be unfair to all other players if he can go to the tournament with no quali games on his back.

Starting XI: Richards - Ferdinand - Lescott - Cole............Bench: Walker, Smalling, Cahill, Baines (I pick Jones as midfielder for the squad)

AttackingFlair · 3rd February 2012, 15:56

Why would you have Lescott ahead of Smalling?

redevil2 · 3rd February 2012, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by marjen

It's a joke to strip him of the armband while still let him remain available for selection. It's just a token gesture.

The FA are a bunch of morons, basically. And, for the first time in this racism saga, Liverpool-fans have actually got a point.

Nonsense! Captainship exists for a reason, and not in name only. A Captain sets examples, and leads. I personally have no issue of him representing the country whilst not yet proven guilty in a pending charge as long as he performs better than those who are not selected.

Being captain on the other hand is a different issue. Apart from being able to perform on the pitch, the role of a captain represents leadership and integrity. A criminal charge is a criminal charge and one alone makes all the difference in giving the impression of such a role, albeit minimal compared to a convicted criminal.

Sean_RedDevil · 3rd February 2012, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttackingFlair

Why would you have Lescott ahead of Smalling?

Because Lescott has played very well in the last 1 1/2 years.

Smalling has played more as right-back than centre-back this season.

But i wouldn't be unhappy with a Ferdinand/Smalling combo

Reapersoul20 · 3rd February 2012, 19:14

Barton will surely be suspended over his outburst on Twitter relating to this?

Brophs · 3rd February 2012, 19:22

Yeah, I don't see that going down too well. Though I'm not sure if there's anything that'll tip him over into a suspension. To be fair, I admire him for being willing to say it. I know Barton has a tendency to be a bit one-eyed and lacking in self-awareness when criticising others, but it is a topic being danced around on the basis that there are legal proceedings in being.

Reapersoul20 · 3rd February 2012, 19:23

https://twitter.com/#!/Joey7Barton

For anyone interested.

Sylar · 3rd February 2012, 19:24

Stan Collymore @StanCollymore
If I were in JT position,I would look for any high profile person saying "guilty",and suggest the possibility of not having a fair trial.

Makes a good point tbh.

Pexbo · 3rd February 2012, 19:46

Interesting exchange between Collymore and Barton. Worth listening to, I'd say. They've got more court hours between them than your average Judge.

acnumber9 · 3rd February 2012, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutral

He's out injured with a knee problem.

Good. I think we could all do with being spared his nauseating armband tugging.

ArmchairCritic · 3rd February 2012, 19:51

I like how Barton tries to come across as an intelligent, thinking man but yet he can't differentiate between 'have' and 'of'. For me there is zero reason why Barton needs to be talking about this in the public domain.

Cheesy · 3rd February 2012, 19:52

Perhaps with him now having lost the armband, England won't feel forced to start with him. You wouldn't need to start him as captain, however I'm sure that Capello would have felt obliged to at the same time.

He really shouldn't be starting for them. He's been woeful this season, and I could see a repeat of the 2010 World Cup if England come up against Germany. Any semi-intelligent player with place would be able to rip him apart, due to his lack of pace. Chances are that Capello will still opt for him though, because of his reputation as a player.

In all honesty, they should be going for Smalling and Cahill, who are their best options. It wouldn't be them just looking to the future, it would be them looking to the present as well.

Cheesy · 3rd February 2012, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmchairCritic

I like how Barton tries to come across as an intelligent, thinking man but yet he can't differentiate between 'have' and 'of'. For me there is zero reason why Barton needs to be talking about this in the public domain.

I really don't see why people think of him as being an intelligent person because of what he posts on Twitter. There's nothing intelligent about it. All he did was take a load of intelligent quotes and post them. I doubt it was down to his literacy knowledge. Chances are, it was more down to his quick internet speed and ability to search google well.

ArmchairCritic · 3rd February 2012, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesy

I really don't see why people think of him as being an intelligent person because of what he posts on Twitter. There's nothing intelligent about it. All he did was take a load of intelligent quotes and post them. I doubt it was down to his literacy knowledge. Chances are, it was more down to his quick internet speed and ability to search google well.

Yeah but he's trying to change his perception to the general public in doing so, I find it amusing. For someone who is so 'well-read' he still doesn't understand that in life you will be judged by your actions.

Cheesy · 3rd February 2012, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmchairCritic

Yeah but he's trying to change his perception to the general public in doing so, I find it amusing. For someone who is so 'well-read' he still doesn't understand that in life you will be judged by your actions.

If he wants the public's opinion of him to change, then he has to show it when he's in public. Anyone can act however they want over the internet. In person though, the real Barton is exposed, and I don't see much of a change in him from the old Barton.

acnumber9 · 3rd February 2012, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmchairCritic

I like how Barton tries to come across as an intelligent, thinking man but yet he can't differentiate between 'have' and 'of'. For me there is zero reason why Barton needs to be talking about this in the public domain.

Or accept and except. Or hear and here for that matter. He loves the attention.

EdWeatherall · 3rd February 2012, 22:34

Fair play to the FA, I didn't think they'd have the balls
Why they waited til this court date, I guess they hoped it would be resolved before the Euros, but should have done it when he was charged

gooDevil · 3rd February 2012, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brophs

He hasn't been suspended, though. To use an analogy, he's had the position of entertainments manager taken away from him. He's still on the shop floor.

That's it, isn't it? They just don't want him to be the poster boy.

But why now? I can only imagine they've managed to get a viewing of the evidence and he looks clearly guilty.

Sylar · 3rd February 2012, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesy

If he wants the public's opinion of him to change, then he has to show it when he's in public. Anyone can act however they want over the internet. In person though, the real Barton is exposed, and I don't see much of a change in him from the old Barton.

Its weird how Bartons talking about how Terry should be a man and all that, yet he went and shook Terrys hand last week but is using twitter to aim it at Terry.

7even · 4th February 2012, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammsky1

I am surprised but delighted by the FA stance on this. Along with their action on the racist who plays for Liverpool, they are to be applauded and congratulated with the implementation of their stated policies on eradicating racism from English football.

They could have easily side stepped around both issues but the FA have demonstrated strong leadership.

I hope that by taking these actions, football can contribute to helping eradicate racism from UK society even further. Beyond the tribal joy football can bring, this is an example of where sometimes, football is more than 'just a game'

I agree with this and it was obvious that the FA have to take this decision when Capello wasn't man enough to understand the seriousness in this case. England and the FA couldn't afford to have a captain leading the national team in to a major championship with so much negative publicity around him. It was wrong to reinstate him as a captain in the first place. Once again a ignorant Capello showed poor leadership and couldn't see around the corner and now he's paying the price for his naive management.

And another strange thing is CFC stance. Talk about putting your money on the wrong horse. There is nothing wrong with giving him support in a difficult situation but to defend him in public is stupid and bad management. Haven't they learned anything from LFC and Dalglish mistake's?? What would they think will happened when he goes to trial? Media backing him as an innocent victim... or maybe the opposite? Terry will always be on the wrong side, even if he's proven not guilty in the court. The old saying "no smoke without fire" will fit in perfect, especially with a man who have a proven record of inappropriate behavior.

gooDevil · 4th February 2012, 00:55

Quote:

It emerged Terry was cold-shouldered by a small but influential group of players when the squad were last together for the friendlies against Sweden and Spain.

Terry, who denies the charge and is determined to clear his name, became aware other players had a problem with him and the issue was never fully resolved before all returned to their clubs. Rio Ferdinand, Anton's older brother, was not involved but his own relationship with Terry is fragile, to say the least.

Sounds like the other England players may have sealed Terry's fate.

John Terry could quit England over sacking and reports of 'mutiny' | Football | The Guardian

Sean_RedDevil · 4th February 2012, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooDevil

Sounds like the other England players may have sealed Terry's fate.

John Terry could quit England over sacking and reports of 'mutiny' | Football | The Guardian

And that's the reason he can't go to the Euros.

We're needing 100% a team for the tournament or we can stay all at home.

Sylar · 4th February 2012, 03:40

Even without this whole ordeal, hes been pretty poor this season and his influence isnt that great where hes helping to carry England through games or anything. I dont see why he was rated so highly for England captaincy in the first place.

That'sHernandez · 4th February 2012, 03:49

Good. He shouldn't be anywhere near the national team anyway because there are far better young players who need the experience.

Zen · 4th February 2012, 08:47

Joey Barton the Ledge.

Zen · 4th February 2012, 08:50

I think Craig Bellamiso needs to get on Twitter.

ryansgirl · 4th February 2012, 12:52

John Terry has always been a bit of a nasty piece of work. Beats me why he was ever made Captain after Beckham.

Despite the way in which Beckham was a showpony and according to some critics used his position for even more sponsorship deals (including a commercial where he wore an England shirt but this was not any official deal involving the England team) in a sharpie way, nobody could ever accuse him of speaking inappropriately regarding anybody's race or sexuality etc. He displayed a dignity and sense of ambassadorship that the classless Terry could never understand.

Had Terry not had the captaincy removed from him, it would have been completely inappropriate. Any England captain accused of racist insults/behaviour, affray, sexual harassment etc should automatically stand down until the situation has been resolved. In this case I believe Anton Ferdinand.

I hope Terry quits and then a young player who hasn't engaged in the oafish and alleged racist behaviour that Terry has can step up and give England fresh legs, skills and attitude.

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3rd February 2012, 13:59	#806 (permalink)
99 red balloons Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: WU203 Posts: 2,432	When I was in the Newbs in October - the thread on this got shut down after about 10 minutes with a "he said blind - this is a non-story, end of thread" closing quote from the mod. The general consensus in the immediate aftermath on the internet was the same. Bet he wishes he'd have just gone with that now.

3rd February 2012, 14:47	#809 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	I'd play Jones at right back before I'd play him at centre back....Smalling is more ready for centre back.....despite getting insane praise and put in a lot of half-season teams of the year, Jones hasn't anywhere near the standards he had at Blackburn at CB for us, midfield and right back....sure he's been better on a consistent, but at CB, he's shown his inexperience far more than Smalling has. But still, I'd love for him to just run with them two together now, not like Cahill, Terry or even Rio have been rocks this year either.

3rd February 2012, 15:31	#810 (permalink)
acnumber9 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,225	Cue Terry scoring at the weekend and pointing to his armband like only a big man could do.

3rd February 2012, 15:56	#815 (permalink)
AttackingFlair First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,037	Why would you have Lescott ahead of Smalling?

3rd February 2012, 19:14	#818 (permalink)
Reapersoul20 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 2,926	Barton will surely be suspended over his outburst on Twitter relating to this?

3rd February 2012, 19:22	#819 (permalink)
Brophs Brewlio's fugly sister Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Why don't we just kill Badger? Posts: 27,713	Yeah, I don't see that going down too well. Though I'm not sure if there's anything that'll tip him over into a suspension. To be fair, I admire him for being willing to say it. I know Barton has a tendency to be a bit one-eyed and lacking in self-awareness when criticising others, but it is a topic being danced around on the basis that there are legal proceedings in being.

3rd February 2012, 19:23	#820 (permalink)
Reapersoul20 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 2,926	https://twitter.com/#!/Joey7Barton For anyone interested.

3rd February 2012, 19:24	#821 (permalink)
Sylar Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,818	Stan Collymore @StanCollymore If I were in JT position,I would look for any high profile person saying "guilty",and suggest the possibility of not having a fair trial. Makes a good point tbh.

3rd February 2012, 19:46	#822 (permalink)
Pexbo He'll have your eye out and listed on Amazon before you can say "ow!" Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: T'Internet Posts: 8,279	Interesting exchange between Collymore and Barton. Worth listening to, I'd say. They've got more court hours between them than your average Judge.

3rd February 2012, 19:51	#824 (permalink)
ArmchairCritic First Team Sub Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: I am not a liberator. Liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves. Posts: 6,390	I like how Barton tries to come across as an intelligent, thinking man but yet he can't differentiate between 'have' and 'of'. For me there is zero reason why Barton needs to be talking about this in the public domain.

3rd February 2012, 19:52	#825 (permalink)
Cheesy Smells Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 5,320	Perhaps with him now having lost the armband, England won't feel forced to start with him. You wouldn't need to start him as captain, however I'm sure that Capello would have felt obliged to at the same time. He really shouldn't be starting for them. He's been woeful this season, and I could see a repeat of the 2010 World Cup if England come up against Germany. Any semi-intelligent player with place would be able to rip him apart, due to his lack of pace. Chances are that Capello will still opt for him though, because of his reputation as a player. In all honesty, they should be going for Smalling and Cahill, who are their best options. It wouldn't be them just looking to the future, it would be them looking to the present as well.

3rd February 2012, 22:34	#830 (permalink)
EdWeatherall First Team Sub Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,293	Fair play to the FA, I didn't think they'd have the balls Why they waited til this court date, I guess they hoped it would be resolved before the Euros, but should have done it when he was charged

4th February 2012, 03:40	#836 (permalink)
Sylar Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,818	Even without this whole ordeal, hes been pretty poor this season and his influence isnt that great where hes helping to carry England through games or anything. I dont see why he was rated so highly for England captaincy in the first place.

4th February 2012, 03:49	#837 (permalink)
That'sHernandez First Team Sub Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Lancaster Posts: 7,940	Good. He shouldn't be anywhere near the national team anyway because there are far better young players who need the experience.

4th February 2012, 08:47	#838 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	Joey Barton the Ledge.

4th February 2012, 08:50	#839 (permalink)
Zen First Team Sub Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Prophetville! Posts: 6,384	I think Craig Bellamiso needs to get on Twitter.

4th February 2012, 12:52	#840 (permalink)
ryansgirl Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: where the sun rises Posts: 2,075	John Terry has always been a bit of a nasty piece of work. Beats me why he was ever made Captain after Beckham. Despite the way in which Beckham was a showpony and according to some critics used his position for even more sponsorship deals (including a commercial where he wore an England shirt but this was not any official deal involving the England team) in a sharpie way, nobody could ever accuse him of speaking inappropriately regarding anybody's race or sexuality etc. He displayed a dignity and sense of ambassadorship that the classless Terry could never understand. Had Terry not had the captaincy removed from him, it would have been completely inappropriate. Any England captain accused of racist insults/behaviour, affray, sexual harassment etc should automatically stand down until the situation has been resolved. In this case I believe Anton Ferdinand. I hope Terry quits and then a young player who hasn't engaged in the oafish and alleged racist behaviour that Terry has can step up and give England fresh legs, skills and attitude.